THE San Francisco Giants Blog


Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on June 7, 2015

Another day, another Philly ass to kick.

Show of hands of all those who believe Voggy will continue his dominance today in the Philly bandbox?

It shouldn’t matter, we oughta light this chump up…..


88 Responses

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  1. ewisco said, on June 7, 2015 at 8:58 am

    on a voggie start some thoughts from seeing him last week: he’s much smaller in person than I thought. and Palanco is an extremely large human.

    As with the other starters, voggies has to limit the damage in the bad inning. I just don’t understand why posey doesnt’ get out there more often. you can tell that THIS is the inning. get out there and manage it for chrissakes. or rags. so you burn a visit. the next one’s to take him out anyway. listening to the omega man saying it all sped up on him. lincicum losses his focus. it happens to all of them and buster just sits there.

  2. willedav said, on June 7, 2015 at 9:38 am

    Cain’s pitching in Double A Richmond, Peavy in Sac.Kid Beede did well in Richmond too, but Baggs did say they promoted him because they are short handed there because correia and another guy bailed on Sacto.
    Machi’s on the DL, so he won’t be next sacrificial lamb.

    • Carstie Clausen said, on June 7, 2015 at 9:42 am

      Willedav: Yes, i’ve been casting that roster situation around in my mind as well. After the recent callup, it would seem weird for SF to drop McGiggles again ~ but who the eff else? One more questionable start and i suppose still optionable Heston could enhance Sac-town. But there just ain’t much for loose parts on this team.

  3. Carstie Clausen said, on June 7, 2015 at 9:39 am

    So far in his two starts vs the Giants O’Sullivan has not quite been a chump, what with a 2.25 ERA and a 1-1 record. That was last season, though, and so far this year he has been pretty ineffectual. With Vogie going for us, there could be mutual fireworks happening today.

    Ewisco: Not having video here, or even radio, i was not aware that Posey may be somewhat of a bump on a log or a lump on a frog when it comes to little chats with his pitcher. I wonder whether the ex catcher wearing #15 has had any chats with him about that.

  4. willedav said, on June 7, 2015 at 9:45 am

    Same LU as yesterday, so Duffy in there hitting 7th/Blanco 8th.
    No Pence til Tuesday at earliest.

  5. alleykat69 said, on June 7, 2015 at 10:02 am

    All 3 of the starters for Philly in this series have era’s over 5 and the Giants got over 5 runs the 1st 2 games so I like are chances for the sweep, even with McDP getting a start today.
    Willied..No worries about Magoo.The Giants just want to save face with their 4-5 mil 1 and done investment, but like you and many other Flappers, wish their was other options.

  6. blade3colorado said, on June 7, 2015 at 10:03 am

    I must be delusional “punting” Sandoval and Blanco in the same DFS LU against Wilcojoe. Tourney yes, but cash game . . . Nutso. Hahaha!

    • blade3colorado said, on June 7, 2015 at 10:13 am

      Hmm . . . This may work out – Michael McKenry is in WJ’s LU and he isn’t playing today. Oh Oh! 🙂

      • wilcojoe said, on June 7, 2015 at 12:39 pm

        Yeah I regret playing you. I threw that lineup together in about five minutes before heading home from a weekend in Austin.

  7. alleykat69 said, on June 7, 2015 at 10:07 am

    Oh I didn’t see your post Willed..
    I feel better already, I heard Boch the other day saying he was gonna give McDP a start in this series,maybe Duffy’s bat and the Flap convinced him otherwise😀😤

  8. blade3colorado said, on June 7, 2015 at 10:12 am

    Back in the day, you would never “stack” a Giants LU against anyone in DFS. How times have changed . . . Now, about the only thing you are worried about is inserting a Giants pitcher not named Bumgarner. 🙂

  9. sandog said, on June 7, 2015 at 10:36 am

    Phillies pitcher today is another San Diego product from the area where I live. Amazing how many pitchers have come just out of this league, called the Grossmont League that schools in my area play in. O’Sullivan, Zito, Kevin Correia, Strasburg, and AJ Griffin—and I might be missing 1 or —and I know there are others in the minors making their way to the bigs.

    I don’t follow horse racing and saw none of yesterday, but it does crack me up that the owner or maybe trainer of the horse that fell just short last year threw a big fit about how the Triple Crown was unfair and would never happen again etc and now another horse comes and does it the very next year.

  10. willedav said, on June 7, 2015 at 10:40 am

    Nicely done anthem, classic without embellishments.
    for some reason, the mid week night games at home I usually get off work just in time to hear it on radiio
    Giants do a weird thing–flems is announcing til first pitch and comes on to say the anthem was just sung and then they play it.
    Last couple have been kid groups, including one from Menlo Park I think.

    Santana is supposed to do the one at Warriors game tonite. Hmmnn.

    • willedav said, on June 7, 2015 at 10:45 am

      I hate the singers who try and turn the Anthem into their own 8 minute version.
      even if you sing them, the words “land of the free/and the home of the brave”
      all have one syllable.

  11. willedav said, on June 7, 2015 at 11:01 am

    Phils uni is dumb—why stick a blue hat on top of all the red?
    Liked to wear red Phils hat with the white P in the middle in my softball days.
    The pinstripe unis from back in Richie Allen era were classic.

  12. willedav said, on June 7, 2015 at 11:08 am

    Can’t believe Howard is still in a Phils uni…or Utley or Papelbon. At 21-36 why do you need to pay big money for a closer?
    In Howard’s case, since the money is sunk, pay someone to take him and start over.

    Um, Vogs lead didn’t last long.

  13. Bozo said, on June 7, 2015 at 11:31 am

    Some close plays there. Giants get back the lead.

    • Bozo said, on June 7, 2015 at 11:34 am

      I guess I just jinxed that.

    • willedav said, on June 7, 2015 at 11:34 am

      All too briefly.
      How’s weather, man? Nothing serious on the way?

      • Bozo said, on June 7, 2015 at 11:50 am

        I haven’t heard of anything on the way. We’ve had a few TStorms here and there but nothing serious and they have been offset by some pretty awesome days. Right now we are in the mid 70s with a slight breeze, came in to see a little of the game but I should go back outside.

        How you doing out your way, willie?

  14. snarkk said, on June 7, 2015 at 12:24 pm

    Duffman with the hustle double! McDP would be on first, assuming he actually got a knock…

  15. ewisco said, on June 7, 2015 at 12:50 pm

    Posey’s killing us it seems on gameday anyway. bring on susac!

  16. snarkk said, on June 7, 2015 at 1:05 pm

    Lopez against righties is just no bueno. Francouer strikes again …

  17. snarkk said, on June 7, 2015 at 1:14 pm

    What a crap AB by Blanco, sheezus…

  18. willedav said, on June 7, 2015 at 1:23 pm

    Getting ugly in a hurry.

  19. willedav said, on June 7, 2015 at 1:26 pm

    Susac is 6 for 34 vs. RHP this year. K right there was only his 7th AB so far this month. Tough to hit well if you are not in there much.
    On Baggs blog couple bloggers didn’t think too much of his D skills (framing etc.) either. Hmmnn.

  20. willedav said, on June 7, 2015 at 1:45 pm

    Wow, comeback trail here. nice ABs from Posey and Belt.
    Phils did not want to see this trying to avoid a sweep.

  21. willedav said, on June 7, 2015 at 1:49 pm

    Too bad, same pitch Craw couldn’t lay off previous time up.

    bozo, weather out here is great, 70s-80s, clear. First time I had a chance to sit and watch a whole game.

  22. Carstie Clausen said, on June 7, 2015 at 2:16 pm

    Methinks Bochy left Vogie out there in the sweltering sun just a tad too long. He had the traditional 6 inning “quality start” and should have showered in the 7th. Affeldt continuing to wilt. Had a queasy feeling about the game from about the 4th inning on. Prescience is real, only we don’t understand it very well because it is not quantifiable in terms of the ruling Cartesian paradigm.

  23. snarkk said, on June 7, 2015 at 3:33 pm

    Well, they took the series. Hard to sweep anybody in their own yard. Although, Philly is a terrible squad. On to the Mets where a series win would be a great effort…

  24. mrsprtdude said, on June 7, 2015 at 4:07 pm

    The “Who knew?” dept. At the 1/3 mark of the season…
    NL standings. Leaders are LA, Wash, St Louis. No shocks. Wild card SF and Pitt. Again no shocks.

    AL Houston, Minnesota and the Yankees????
    WC KC and Tampa. I really don’t care about the AL but those 3 leaders. No way anyone predicted that!

  25. Macdog said, on June 7, 2015 at 4:39 pm

    Bit of a disappointment today. I just didn’t get pitching around Revere in the 7th, or at least it seemed that way. And then bringing in Lopez when Phils got righty Frenchy waiting. Rip away on Frenchy, but he’s now 5 for 9 as a pinch-hitter this season. Do the Giants as a team even have 5 pinch-hits the entire season?

  26. blade3colorado said, on June 7, 2015 at 5:21 pm

    Off Topic: Two convicted killers escaped from a maximum security prison in upstate New York over the weekend. The pair used power tools and decoys designed to look like their sleeping selves in the sophisticated plot. According to authorities, the inmates — who occupied side-by-side cells — cut through a steel wall and followed a series of tunnels until they emerged from a manhole outside the prison walls.

    Steel wall? I guess Andy would have needed a bit more then that small geology hammer, eh?

    This link shows exactly how they did it* . . .

    I imagine there are a few tools missing from the UNICOR tool crib locker too. lqtm.

  27. willedav said, on June 7, 2015 at 5:51 pm

    luv that pin down play warriors run for Thompson coming off the downscreen by the big. Delly is gonna have nightmares about that.

  28. zumiee said, on June 7, 2015 at 7:10 pm

    Another great day at the Book Festival. I went to a great panel on sportswriting. One of the panelists was one of the authors of Game of Shadows. When I get a chance, I’ll go into more detail about the panel. I think everyone here would have dug the discussion they had over a variety of topics.

  29. James said, on June 7, 2015 at 7:28 pm

    So much analysis about this and that, but is there really anything else to say about the game so far other than Curry’s shooting has been horrendous?

    • zumiee said, on June 7, 2015 at 7:34 pm

      In general, the worst shot in basketball is a fastbreak three-pointer. The Warriors usually get away with it, but not tonight.

      • James said, on June 7, 2015 at 7:46 pm

        Get away with it? Isn’t that the Charles Barkley view of basketball reality?

      • zumiee said, on June 7, 2015 at 7:57 pm

        At most levels of basketball, a coach is not going to want the team shooting fastbreak 3s. Willie wouldn’t allow his team to do it, I’m sure. 🙂

      • zumiee said, on June 7, 2015 at 8:00 pm

        The problem with the shot, besides being difficult for most players, is no offensive rebounder.

      • James said, on June 7, 2015 at 8:18 pm

        I believe you, Zumie. I guess when your top player, who’s reputed to be one of the best shooters to ever play, misses an extraordinary number of FG attempts, I draw simple minded conclusions.

  30. alleykat69 said, on June 7, 2015 at 7:55 pm

    Dodge a bullet with James their!!
    Take another OT and be glad we have it!!

  31. zumiee said, on June 7, 2015 at 7:56 pm

    The sportswriting panel was supposed to be moderated by Bruce Jenkins, but he’s in Cleveland covering the Warriors game. So Gary Pomerantz was the moderator. He teaches at Stanford and has written some terrific sports books, including a great book about Chamberlain’s 100-point game. The panelists were Mark Fainaru-wada, who writes for ESPN Magazine, is co-author of Game of Shadows, and a new book about concussions in the NFL. Another panelist was John Branch, who writes for the NY Times, and won a Pulitzer Prize a couple of years ago. And another panelist was Dave Zirin, a sportswriter for Nation magazine, of all things. All of them are life-long sports fans, who are living their dream. They all agreed that there is more good sportswriting out there than ever before, but they also agree there’s more bad sportswriting out there than ever before. It’s easier for new writers to break in, but harder for the new writers to get paid all that much. The panelists are all at a point in their careers where they no longer have to go into sweaty locker rooms to interview athletes, and they’re very glad of that. They agreed that’s the hardest thing in sportswriting. None of the athletes want them there. It can be a very demoralizing thing for sportswriters. They know fans generally want positive stories, but they also firmly believe that fans need to hear the harder truths also. They believe strongly in the importance of sports journalism. Journalism takes money, though. They can dig deeper on stories if their publications give them the time to do it. They all are appreciative of the support their publications give them. They know it’s not like that at a lot of other publications.

  32. Macdog said, on June 7, 2015 at 7:56 pm

    And speaking of comebacks, the Cards have rallied to take the lead over the Bums.

  33. xoot said, on June 7, 2015 at 8:21 pm

    Curry had a bad game. My kid wants to know why do you give him the ball at the end after all that failure? because he’s the best player on the team. Klay might’ve made the shot, I suppose.

  34. zumiee said, on June 7, 2015 at 8:26 pm

    From the page Xoot referenced regarding sportswriter Zirin, here’s an excerpt from an article Zirin wrote back in ’08 about the collusion against Bonds. Zirin was probably a lone voice in the journalistic wilderness on that issue back then:

    “He has been blackballed in a blatant and illegal act of Major League collusion, a bosses’ boycott. Yes, Bonds’ fielding has become painful to watch in recent years, as the seven time gold glover limped around the outfield on knees grinding together without cartilage. But despite the agony of movement most of us take for granted, Bonds still hit 28 home runs in 340 at bats, led the NL in walks, and had an on base percentage of .480. Since 1950, only Ted Williams, Mickey Mantle, Norm Cash, and Bonds himself have recorded higher OBP’s. [Cash’s epic season was an anomaly in an otherwise middling career. That a player could have a brilliant year out of nowhere, used to be one of the charms of baseball. Today they would be accused of sprinkling steroids on their corn flakes.]

    Maybe Bonds can no longer roam the outfield, but there are at least a dozen AL teams that could use a designated hitter with a .480 OBP, not to mention a player whose every game would sell tickets and every at-bat would provoke baited breaths and empty bathrooms.

    In this case of blackballing so obvious it would shame a Dartmouth frat house, one would think the media would be raising hell. But they have largely been yipping collusion lackeys.”

    • xoot said, on June 7, 2015 at 8:39 pm

      and the media similarly remained silent when everyone was juicing back in the late 90s and early oughts, until a track coach blew the lid off of BALCO. I called Barry Bonds as a post-modern Jack Johnson way back, when the persecution started, and then saw Zirin develop that same theme (obviously on his own) with sophistication thereafter. Leftists make the best critics. they just do.

  35. zumiee said, on June 7, 2015 at 8:34 pm

    Nice catch in centerfield to end the game. Bums lose!

  36. zumiee said, on June 7, 2015 at 9:28 pm

    A Dodger fan ponders:

    We’re gonna need a bigger Dbacks schedule

    by mleadman on Jun 7, 2015 | 8:39 PM

  37. willedav said, on June 8, 2015 at 6:32 am

    Steph was terrible but he obviously had a lot of company.
    Kerr’s OB plays are usually great but I didn’t care for that last one; Steph could have gone to the rim too.

    No Zum, I don’t like the spot up 3s off the break, but if that’s what your team does you have to live with the misses. Warriors seemed reluctant to go to the rim—Green threw away couple lobs when he was right there.
    All night, shot selection was not good. Kerr talks about working for a better shot (an old Bobby Knight mandate) but cavs contested most of them. And Warriors missed many of their open ones, often badly.

  38. unca_chuck said, on June 8, 2015 at 7:55 am

    Yeah Kerr talks about the extra pass to make good shot a great one but Iggy, Bugut, and Green routinely pass up shots under the basket. That annoys the piss out of me. The fucking uncontested miss by Speights was huge.

  39. Macdog said, on June 8, 2015 at 9:04 am

    It wasn’t so much Curry was off, more like it seemed he didn’t want to be involved from the get-go. This wasn’t a bad thing early when Thompson was on fire, but when he picked his 2nd foul, the Warriors seemed out of sorts from then on. Curry finally re-joined the game in the final minutes and the Warriors nearly stole it, but it wasn’t enough in OT. And what was up with that shot put-style shot by Curry off the dribble, none of which he made? Is that something he does often? Very weird-looking.

    I still think the Warriors will take it. Their offense is more varied and I’ve been very impressed by their defense — very, very few open looks for the Cavs. But the Cavs have life now, and if the Warriors didn’t realize it after Game 1, they know now that this is going to be a street fight. And Dellavedova is exactly what the Cavs need after the Irving injury — a player who is absolutely fearless and not afraid no matter how big the moment. I’m not seeing too many players like that on the Warriors right now.

    • blade3colorado said, on June 8, 2015 at 9:28 am

      Excellent summary Mac. I really thought you could put a fork in the Cavs after Irving was injured in game 1. Especially, after his heroic effort should have resulted in the Cavs being inspired to win in OT. Instead, they disappeared for the entire OT. Was it shock due to Irving’s injury? Dunno . . . Fast forward to game 2, I was certain that the Warriors would have smooth sailing. Not so fast Blade . . . Lebron obviously wasn’t giving up and Dellavedova was down with that too. Consequently, the rest of the Cavs bought in as well.

      I still think the Warriors are in the driver’s seat insofar as taking this series, but it seems like the Cavs are dictating the pace of the game with their defense and fearless play. As you indicated, I’m not seeing too many Warriors whom are playing inspired basketball right now.

      • Macdog said, on June 8, 2015 at 9:50 am

        Something else that bothered me from the Warriors side — the two intentional fouls on T. Thompson in the 4th quarter. Why do this? He made 2 of 4 — so the Cavs, who shot 32 percent for the game, ended up with one successful possession out of two. The Warriors play sound enough defense they shouldn’t have to resort to that gimmick, plus it takes away from a chance to unleash their deadly transition game.

  40. wilcojoe said, on June 8, 2015 at 9:28 am

    You have to wonder if Curry isn’t quite ready for the big stage. I said this would be their biggest if not only weakness heading into the playoffs. No one of significance on that club has been there before. This is afterall why the Spurs have been so dominant in June for so many years.

  41. chipower9 said, on June 8, 2015 at 11:14 am

    That was just an ugly fucking game, and the sooner I rewind/delete that shit, the better. Wash that shit off and go get ’em in the Mistake by the Lake.

  42. chipower9 said, on June 8, 2015 at 11:17 am

    I watched the Cards-Bums game Saturday night. While I love Jon Miller, Scully is the absolute best. The dude just spins a game so beautifully, and he does it solo.

    Also, with Saturday being D-Day, Scully was sharing great stories about WWII and the assault on Normandy, etc. Having served 31 years in the Air Force, I was absolutely digging Scully’s cover of the game and the historical tidbits he shared.

  43. dirtnrocksnomo said, on June 8, 2015 at 11:52 am

    So who’s excited for the 2015 MLB Draft? Just 4 hours away. Set your DVRs.

    • chipower9 said, on June 8, 2015 at 12:18 pm


      JK…I will be interested to see who the Giants draft. Outside of that…not a lot of interest here.

  44. giants54 said, on June 8, 2015 at 2:49 pm

    Baggs has a long piece on the draft

    • dirtnrocksnomo said, on June 8, 2015 at 3:07 pm

      That is a nice write up. Duffy, Crawford, Panik, Belt. None of them thought the Giants were looking at then. I remember Lincecum saying something similar once. Of course that is different with him being a pitcher and all but typical Sabean stuff eh?

  45. giants54 said, on June 8, 2015 at 2:53 pm

    Interesting take on scouts drafting Giants Belt Panik Craw and Duffy. How many teams field so many homegrown players?

    • chipower9 said, on June 8, 2015 at 3:05 pm

      Add Bumgarner, Cain, Lincecum, and Posey to that list…

    • blade3colorado said, on June 8, 2015 at 3:38 pm

      None can match that achievement. In fact, (sorry snarkk) I could give a rat’s ass about how many outfielders we’ve developed in the last 20 years. Pitching; up the middle defense; and timely hitting wins championships. Last I checked, we’ve won a few of those. Cherry picking what positions arrive at Willie Mays Plaza, doesn’t interest me one iota.

      • chipower9 said, on June 8, 2015 at 5:00 pm

        I second that comment.

  46. blade3colorado said, on June 8, 2015 at 3:26 pm

    Natives getting restless in Boston . . .

    Bill Baldwin · Top Commenter · Boston State College, ’76
    Hanley Ramirez* is okay in my book. He is a professional baseball player with the right attitude and mind set, no matter where they ask him to play. Pablo Sandoval is not of that ilk, however. He is, in IMHO,, far too self-absorbed with little regard for his team or his own body. “Immediate Gratification” is his mantra, sad to say. Good thing I’m not in charge on Yawkey Wy or Sandoval would be gone. Ramirez is a keeper. Sandoval is an egotistical loser.
    Reply · · June 6 at 8:54pm

    * IMO, the only delusional part of this message is his props for Ramirez, who until recently, was a disaster in the field, at the plate, and the clubhouse. Ditto for the other tres amigo, David Ortiz.

  47. dirtnrocksnomo said, on June 8, 2015 at 3:44 pm

    Man, I’m on the edge of my seat. Will the Giants choose that guy I’ve never heard of or that other guy I’ve never hear of.

  48. giants54 said, on June 8, 2015 at 4:11 pm

    They say they choose the *best* player avail, not by need. Arroyo wasn’t on anyone’s list of 1st rd picks.
    I like the name Funkhouser, so that’s my wild ass pick. 🙂

  49. zumiee said, on June 8, 2015 at 4:12 pm

    The Giants have done awesomely in the draft the last 10 years or so, and Blade, you’re right, the rings are what matter, all else is not very relevant; but that outfield thing is pretty weird. It’s truly like the Giants have no idea what they’re doing in trying to draft and develop outfielders. Zero idea. When it comes to outfielders, they might as well have just thrown a dart at a list of names. I say all this because it was a little annoying seeing Joc Pederson featured in the new issue of Sports Illustrated. It’s been mentioned before that he was in the same draft as Gary Brown. The Giants took Brown in the first round, the Dodgers got Pederson in the 11th round, which means even the Dodgers passed on him 10 (!) times. So, the draft can be quite the crapshoot.
    But whoever the Giants use to scout and analyze young outfielders, use somebody else!! 🙂

  50. zumiee said, on June 8, 2015 at 4:14 pm

    Dansby Swanson just got drafted. Dansby? Seriously?

    • blade3colorado said, on June 8, 2015 at 4:18 pm

      I can already hear it . . . The Great Dansby!

  51. giants54 said, on June 8, 2015 at 4:40 pm

    Was imagining during the Pirates series…what if Pitts had taken Posey and we had taken Alvarez? The Horror!

  52. giants54 said, on June 8, 2015 at 4:42 pm

    Or the stiff who went 6th….

    • zumiee said, on June 8, 2015 at 5:02 pm

      Man, talk about just getting a cup of coffee in the bigs….

  53. blade3colorado said, on June 8, 2015 at 4:45 pm

    I just read this in Baggs:

    “Bochy said Nori Aoki really did come up to him and apologize for being too sick to play on Friday. Aoki said that maintaining his health is part of being a professional and he felt badly about letting the team down.

    “All players should be like that,” Bochy said, smiling.”

    Aoki continues to impress. 🙂

    • zumiee said, on June 8, 2015 at 5:04 pm

      Does Aoki apologize to Bochy when he makes a base-running blunder? 🙂

      • blade3colorado said, on June 8, 2015 at 5:08 pm

        I wouldn’t doubt it. By the by, Happy birthday Chi! I hope you and yours, had fun on your special day!

  54. zumiee said, on June 8, 2015 at 5:08 pm

    The Dodgers are 4-12 against the Giants and the Cards, and they’re 28-13 vs. other opponents. Tonight they’ll be looking to deliver their usual beat-down of the D-Backs. What are the chances the D-Backs can rise to the occasion at Dodger Stadium? I’m guessing that Fantasy players are stacking Dodger players tonight. 🙂

  55. Flavor said, on June 8, 2015 at 5:12 pm

    figure I’ll cobble together an evening thread once we find out who the Giants pick with the 18th pick in the first rd. There’s about 10 picks to go ahead of them

  56. Flavor said, on June 8, 2015 at 5:31 pm

    4 picks to go before we’re on the clock!

  57. zumiee said, on June 8, 2015 at 5:36 pm

    Nate Silver looks at the Warriors after last night:

  58. giants54 said, on June 8, 2015 at 5:57 pm

    A pot smoking dude from Nevada??

  59. wilcojoe said, on June 8, 2015 at 6:04 pm

    This guy was projected as a top 5 pick before the pot bust. If something that ridiculous allows you to fall to 18, I will take this pick all day.

  60. Flavor said, on June 8, 2015 at 6:05 pm

    new thread

  61. wilcojoe said, on June 8, 2015 at 6:21 pm

    Some mock drafts had him going in the top 5 prior to his failed pot test. He was selected in the 10th round two years ago by the Blue Jays but didn’t sign. He obviously missed out on some green (pun intended) by falling to 18, but this could be a steal for the Giants.

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