A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Everyone Hates Puig

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on July 1, 2015

Not gonna lie, I enjoyed the story that broke recently about how much Dodger players hate Puig. And people that say, “team chemistry doesn’t matter, look at (insert team from the 70’s here) they used to fight each other and still won a World Series” are taking way too simplistic of a stance. Team chemistry absolutely CAN matter you just don’t always see the negative effects.

And now we are seeing those effects. Look, if Puig was actually producing I don’t think it would matter as much. But he’s not. And when a Dodger player is quoted as saying, “At this point it would be addition by subtraction” (if Puig were traded), that’s more evidence that the Dodgers would be better off without this chump.

Hopefully they don’t trade him.

And to answer a question that will likely get posed today, my answer is this: No, I would not take Puig, for free, on our team right now.

89 Responses

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  1. Bozo said, on July 1, 2015 at 9:35 am

    I’d take Ethier over Puig, and I don’t want Ethier

  2. chipower9 said, on July 1, 2015 at 9:50 am

    This exact topic was discussed this morning on KNBR. Consensus is no way the bumbinos trade Puig…just too much talent. Hey, I want him to stay and to continue being the cancer he is in the bum’s clubhouse and dugout.

    Agree Clown…I too would take Ethier over Puig, but I too do not want Ethier.

  3. chipower9 said, on July 1, 2015 at 9:54 am

    No doubt the US ladies caught some breaks in the match against Germany last night (dodged a red card, and the penalty kick that lead to the US’s first goal was a gift). But, the US clearly outplayed Germany for at least 75% of the match. They deserved to win. And for Flav – Kelley O’Hara with the second US goal is a Stanford alum.

  4. xoot said, on July 1, 2015 at 10:09 am

    I’ve seen reviews of Knight’s book saying she covers the cultural issues as well as Puig’s more amusing tantrums, etc. I may check the book out just for that Cuban/US-culture-clash discussion. A bunch of the new wave of Cuban players seem to have, as they say, issues. Last year, one of the dodgers’ AAA guys picked a fight on the field, during a game, with two other Cubanos on that same team (the C, SS and 2B were involved, I believe). You don’t see such stuff from Abreu or Chapman. Cespedes seems to seethe a bit, but at least while he was in Oakland he played hard (and often well). This new wave, however–I think something’s different. Maybe they’re not potential superstars like the guys who came earlier; maybe they didn’t get the full-on training those superstars received in Cuba. I don’t know. Certainly, the difficulties any Latino player will encounter seem magnified for Cuban émigrés, and for some reason the new guys are having trouble. I’m starting to sympathize with Puig. I sure as shit would hate to see him in SF, however.

    • chipower9 said, on July 1, 2015 at 10:25 am

      Interesting. I have NO sympathy for Puig. I understand the difficulties in moving from your homeland to a new country, etc. But on the flip-side, Puig is making a TON of money compared to what he could ever have made had he stayed in Cuba. He should view his current circumstances (yes, including all the difficluties and problems, etc.) as a gift. Fucker is lucky he is in the US making tall dollars to play a game that many of us love, and a game that many of our old-time players would have played for free.

      What is the name of the book? Sounds interesting.

      • xoot said, on July 1, 2015 at 10:52 am

        Molly Knight, The Best Team Money Can Buy–it’s the book Zumie’s posted about. Lots of articles about it. http://www.forbes.com/sites/howardcole/2015/07/01/yasiel-puig-continues-to-be-lightning-rod-as-new-book-blows-up-twitter/

      • xoot said, on July 1, 2015 at 10:56 am

        The dodger-fan and apologist who wrote the Forbes piece is pretty amusing, in the way butt-hurt black-n-blue dodger fans can be.

      • chipower9 said, on July 1, 2015 at 11:03 am

        Thanks, xoot.

      • Lisle Ellis said, on July 1, 2015 at 11:21 am

        I Agree Chi … he’s got what I call ‘high-class’ problems. Too bad he seems to be a bit of a ‘low-class’ character.

      • xoot said, on July 1, 2015 at 12:13 pm

        Here’s an article from late last year. The way the latest bunch of Cubans fit in–given their status in Cuba itself, before they defect–still intrigues me. Cuba’s different than the DR. http://latindispatch.com/2014/10/21/as-world-series-begins-latin-american-baseball-players-continue-to-face-hardship/

      • chipower9 said, on July 1, 2015 at 1:06 pm

        That was a good read, xoot. I have read similar articles about the exploitation, etc. by MLB regarding the young Latino players. And I think that aspect of it all is a damned shame. MLB should be forced to make significant changes to better the chances afforded the young Latino players.

        And I read a couple of stories about Puig’s path to the majors, and so to some degree I can see that he might have some hard feelings, etc. But the dude has now “made it,” and he should be a bit more respectful and appreciative of his situation, even with the sacrifices and troubles he had in getting there.

  5. Carstie Clausen said, on July 1, 2015 at 10:28 am

    Just donned the rose-tinted lenses again after contemplating our starting pitching for these next four games: Heston, Cain, Peavy and Bumgarner. We could take three for the next 4 games with these guys on the mound. Voggie in the finale vs the Nats. He’d be the #5 in this array. Dude always gives it his all.

  6. Carstie Clausen said, on July 1, 2015 at 11:06 am

    With Affeldt collapsing and Machi ineffectual the Giants hafta be looking around MLB and through their own pipeline to come up with middle reliever solutions. My candidate is not a kid anymore. Drafted 6th round in ’11, from Oregon State, Josh Osich currently is the closer for Richmond.

    Stats are pretty impressive: 19 saves in 31 appearances. The southpaw boasts a 1.59 ERA, having given up a measly 23 hits and ten walks over 34 IP. His walk to strikeout ratio is 10-34. WHIP is an elegant 0.97. As a lefty he projects to be very valuable. As a pitcher with closer credentials he could become that all-important fireman who has to date given up one fewer baserunners than innings pitched.

    Keep an eye on Osich. Just from the stats i feel he is ready for The Show. He looks to be more than a loogie. My feeling is that he would replace Affeldt ~ not so much for those occasional 2-3 inning stints, but as a lefty who can get both LHB’s and RHB’s out. If he’s as hardnosed as say, Vogie, we could be looking at the real deal as a fireman.

    • Bozo said, on July 1, 2015 at 11:45 am

      Stix, I posted the other day that Osich was moved from Richmond to Sacto with Mac Williamson. With Okert not doing well, you gotta figure Josh will get the bump to SF soon (Mac too).

  7. chipower9 said, on July 1, 2015 at 11:21 am

    Not trying to be a doomer (I am usually Polly-leaning) Stix, but we always seem to have a rough go of it in D.C. during this summer stretch. I have very little confidence in Peavy (he pitches the opener in D.C. on Friday) and hope he proves me wrong. Cain seems to have been more solid in his rehab work, but again, not sure what to expect there, either (he goes tomorrow). I think Heston certainly gives our boys the potential to grab a win today. I would be happy as hell to get out of South Beach with a series win.

    In D.C., we will face Zimmerman, Strasburg, and Gonzalez (not sure if that is the order of their rotation, or not). Fister and Scherzer go today and tomorrow, so we miss them. A blessing re: Scherzer as he is pitching lights-out. Of the three we face, Zimmerman is the only one with decent numbers (ERA/WHIP), but we all know how stats can have little to do with the outcome of a game on any given day.

    • Bozo said, on July 1, 2015 at 12:09 pm

      Hopefully the temp drops a bit more. The last time I was in DC for a Giants series the heat index was over 100. The Giants melted and so did I. It was fucking brutal (the games and the heat).

    • Carstie Clausen said, on July 1, 2015 at 1:29 pm

      Chi: Even after the 0-1 start for the road-trip i figure we do the split. Most probable is that Heston and Cain nail the fish to the wall and that Bumgarner tops the Wash. During July the only team we face with a winning record after the Nats are the Mets. Could be Bochy gets the notion that Peavy and Hudson pair up for 4-5 innings each before the month is over.

  8. chipower9 said, on July 1, 2015 at 11:26 am

    I don’t think it has been mentioned, but Timmy hit the DL for the first time in his career to make room for Cain. With Peavy set to pitch the opener against the Nats, and the struggles in the bullpen, there could be a lot of shuffling of the chairs on the deck.

  9. chipower9 said, on July 1, 2015 at 11:37 am

    With what I see on “The Best Team Money Can Buy” (that hasn’t won a World Series since 1988), I may be inclined to give this a read. I read a clip in a CSNBA article that talked about Grienke and Puig almost getting into it on a few occasions, and how Grienke tossed Puig’s luggage into the street while they were stopped to pick-up pizza (part of the rookie razzing) in Chicago. I was LMAO just picturing that incident in my mind.

    • xoot said, on July 1, 2015 at 12:40 pm

      My sons and I were talking about that last night. Entirely homegrown IF, plus Susac. Says something about the Giants draft and development approaches. Also adds years to the time Giants fans get to appreciate the players as Giants or as Giants prospects. And a big part of your team chemistry starts right there, I think.

  10. Irish Kevin said, on July 1, 2015 at 12:37 pm

    Personally I think team chemistry can be huge, Giants are an obvious choice, but look at the Warriors, they like the Giants had starters coming off the bench and not complaining about it. So yah let the Dodgers keep the cancers in their club house.

  11. chipower9 said, on July 1, 2015 at 1:18 pm

    Good point on the Giants homegrown infield xoot, and their improvement in the draft (sorry snarkk – it is still pretty damned good even though they have not had a drafted OFer make the big club in some time).

    On this point I was folding one of my 2010 Giants championship shirts last night. The back of the shirt has a graphic that is the backs of baseball jerseys showing the names of all the players, broken down by position – Pitchers, Infielders, Outfielders, and Catchers.” Here is the list:


    Infielders (only one still with the club):



    Pretty crazy the names there and how many are now gone. Again, a really good indication of the Giants propensity to draft players that make an impact (hence, that homegrown IF).

    • snarkk said, on July 1, 2015 at 1:40 pm

      Hey, Chi, yeah, Giants have done well since mid-2000s drafting pitchers and infielders. As I said in an earlier post a few days back, they have to have the plan that an oversupply of pitching serves as trade fodder for outfielders — my take on it. They may need to show that strategy again before this upcoming trade deadline. I’d be concerned about Pence coming back full strength this year. Lower forearm break and related wrist issues may take a full season and an off season to really heal. Wrists are funky things, and really important for hitters…

      • chipower9 said, on July 1, 2015 at 2:01 pm

        Agree on all points, snarkk. And yes…I do have my concerns about Pence. Hate to say it, but there are aspects of this injury that remind me of DeRosa’s wrist issue.

  12. snarkk said, on July 1, 2015 at 1:50 pm

    BTW, heard on radio that Tommy Joseph has now switched to 1b in Philly org. Too much risk continuing to catch with his concussion issues…

    • alleykat69 said, on July 1, 2015 at 2:49 pm

      Guess the Giants and their crack medical staff don’t give a rats ass about Hector Sanchez multiple history’of concussions since he’s still catching, then again it’s the minors so who cares?

  13. chipower9 said, on July 1, 2015 at 2:04 pm

    1. Angel Pagan (S) CF
    2. Joe Panik (L) 2B
    3. Matt Duffy (R) 3B
    4. Buster Posey (R) C
    5. Brandon Belt (L) 1B
    6. Brandon Crawford (L) SS
    7. Gregor Blanco (L) LF
    8. Justin Maxwell (R) RF
    9. Chris Heston (R) P

    • zumiee said, on July 1, 2015 at 2:52 pm

      It’s not the ’27 Yankees, but it’ll have to do for now. 🙂

  14. alleykat69 said, on July 1, 2015 at 3:29 pm

    Interesting trivia:
    Chris Heston&Dee Gordon were roommates at Seminole JC .
    Just wondering if Heston drills Gordon will they still be friends?

  15. wilcojoe said, on July 1, 2015 at 3:40 pm

    Speaking of fish, I hope Bozo is staying out of the water. Seven shark attacks in three weeks in the Carolina’s. We’re going to have a major panic on our hands, on the Fourth of July.

    • zumiee said, on July 1, 2015 at 4:06 pm

    • Bozo said, on July 1, 2015 at 5:13 pm

      Thanks Joe, we just had an attack on Ocracoke Island today. Of the seven reported on the Carolina coast, three have been local. We have even had sightings of Bullheads in the Sound. I’m glad we put up a pool in the backyard.

  16. zumiee said, on July 1, 2015 at 4:44 pm

    Nice turn of the DP.

  17. Macdog said, on July 1, 2015 at 5:03 pm

    At least they held Gordon to a triple.

    • Bozo said, on July 1, 2015 at 5:14 pm

      Man that dude is fast.

  18. zumiee said, on July 1, 2015 at 5:03 pm

    Heston’s stuff isn’t as good tonight.

  19. Bozo said, on July 1, 2015 at 5:18 pm

    Speaking of Sharks…

  20. Lisle Ellis said, on July 1, 2015 at 5:21 pm

    Whew … White Shark is playing so well lately … It couldn’t come at better time … Still a propensity for fly balls but over all … Oops, there ya go .. Caught stealin .. me and my big mouth!

  21. Flavor said, on July 1, 2015 at 5:32 pm

    Pagan’s ongoing suckitude is starting to show in his obvious frustration after each failed at bat….

    • Bozo said, on July 1, 2015 at 5:36 pm


  22. Bozo said, on July 1, 2015 at 5:38 pm

    Now Buster is out. Damn.

  23. Bozo said, on July 1, 2015 at 5:46 pm

    Tied up.

  24. Bozo said, on July 1, 2015 at 5:48 pm


  25. Carstie Clausen said, on July 1, 2015 at 5:50 pm

    Brandon Brigade brings em across. What happened with Buster?

    • Flavor said, on July 1, 2015 at 5:53 pm

      K/K guessing that it was a helmet shot he took off a foul ball a couple innings ago.They showed the replay, looked like it stung him pretty good

    • Bozo said, on July 1, 2015 at 5:53 pm

      Foul to the mask. Couldn’t shake it off.

  26. Bozo said, on July 1, 2015 at 6:02 pm

    3-6-3, nice.

  27. Lisle Ellis said, on July 1, 2015 at 6:08 pm

    What do y’all think of Buster’s situation? Potential concussion DL? I don’t have game on TV, MLB At Bat only.

    • Bozo said, on July 1, 2015 at 6:14 pm

      I haven’t heard any details.

  28. Flavor said, on July 1, 2015 at 6:10 pm

    If you ever take our pitching staff for granted, remind yourself it could always be worse. So far tonight, Detroit left Simon in to give up 15 hits in 5 innings and Harang got left in to give up 14 hits. Two starting pitchers who gave up 29 hits combined? How does that happen?

  29. Bozo said, on July 1, 2015 at 6:11 pm

    Duffster with the cushion.

  30. alleykat69 said, on July 1, 2015 at 6:24 pm

    I would have sworn Strickland gave up a HR this year, but the TV stat said none.
    Matter of fact he hasn’t giving up a bomb in the regular season!
    Unfortunately there is Postseason and we’ll just a little different story..
    But I still feel he will be the main man ( closer) probably next year.

  31. Lisle Ellis said, on July 1, 2015 at 6:27 pm

    Each of the starting 8 with at least one hit … a good sign me thinks.

    Got to run to my regular Wed nite Hookah-Lounge gig … See y’all 2morrow!

    Go Gigantes!

    • alleykat69 said, on July 1, 2015 at 6:36 pm

      Yeah normally Wed nite I go to a Hooker lounge, but a Hookah nite is fine too!

  32. Bozo said, on July 1, 2015 at 6:48 pm

    Alright, close this Miami Walmart down.

  33. James said, on July 1, 2015 at 6:54 pm

    The player the Dodgers need to get rid of is Jimmy Rollins with his cancerous 589 OPS.

  34. unca_chuck said, on July 1, 2015 at 6:55 pm

    Oh shit…
    just got off Bart. WTF??

  35. Flavor said, on July 1, 2015 at 6:57 pm

    Fuck. My. Ass.

  36. unca_chuck said, on July 1, 2015 at 6:57 pm

    WTF indeed. Fuck. The pen is struggling these days.

  37. mannyman46 said, on July 1, 2015 at 6:57 pm

    Well, Fuck me a running. That one slipped away fast.

  38. Macdog said, on July 1, 2015 at 6:57 pm


  39. Bozo said, on July 1, 2015 at 6:57 pm

    Son of a bitch.

  40. unca_chuck said, on July 1, 2015 at 6:58 pm

    Yeah, shaping up like another shitty easy coast ride.

  41. alleykat69 said, on July 1, 2015 at 6:59 pm

    Well that’s just fucking SUCKS CASILLA BALLS!!!!!!!!!
    Hunter come on down, should get a shot now!!!!

  42. James said, on July 1, 2015 at 7:05 pm

    3 errors, 5 DPs, the odds were not good for an L tonight.

  43. sandog said, on July 1, 2015 at 7:09 pm

    Wow. I’ve been watching for about 2 hours and then my mom called, so I turned off the sound just as the bottom of the 9th started. Very surreal watching things slowly start to slide and then the big blow—all with the sound off. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory for sure.
    Oh well, back at it tomorrow. Another very interesting pitching match-up on tap. It feels like its been 2 years since Cain pitched.

  44. James said, on July 1, 2015 at 7:40 pm

    This is probably too early to post this after that shitty, disheartening loss, but I dealt with it by taking a look at the assumption that Buster’s 1B splits prove that he’s a much more effective hitter at 1B than catcher.

    I had the impression that many of his starts at 1B were actually against lefties. I couldn’t easily find a way to generate a report that gave me games he’s started at 1B and the opposing pitchers, so I did a random sample of games in 2012, his best year. In that small sample, 80% of the games he played at first were against left handed starters.

    Buster’s career R/L OPS splits:


    I’m betting that the offensive splits between catcher and 1B have a fair bit to do with the lefty/righty splits, and if he were put at 1B full time he wouldn’t be that much better an overall hitter.

    • blade3colorado said, on July 1, 2015 at 8:12 pm

      Posey is known for his ability to hit left-handed pitching, but he’s no slouch against right-handed pitching either. Last season he finished with a .366 wOBA against righties. However, what’s your point? You’re stating the obvious James . . . 🙂

      Most right handed batters are better against lefties then righties. Similarly, the reverse is true for lefty hitters, e.g., see Goldie – who destroys righties. Are there anomalies? Of course . . . See our own Crawford who is better against lefties (at least this season), then he is against righties. In any event, when looking for match-ups in MLB, team managers will usually determine a fringe player’s status in the LU (i.e., whether he sits or plays), by first determining if the pitcher is a righty or lefty.

      • James said, on July 1, 2015 at 8:30 pm

        Blade, what I’m saying is that Posey has possibly played a disproportionate number of his starts at 1B against lefties, which contributes to the notion that he’s a much better hitter while not catching. I’m actually suggesting that the catcher/1B hitting disparity really has something to do with the more commonplace lefty/righty splits that you cite.

      • Macdog said, on July 1, 2015 at 8:49 pm

        Posey this season is hitting better vs. RHP (.315/.393/.512) than LHP (.259/.317/.397).

      • blade3colorado said, on July 1, 2015 at 8:59 pm

        Well Mac, I don’t disagree with that. In fact, I was looking for a DFS article I recently read that said the exact same thing . . . Another player (forgot who . . . maybe Aoki?) on the Giants besides him and Craw were cited as having reverse splits to what the norm is usually – as both James and I cited. In short, Posey is an All World hitter and no one really mystifies him. Harper, Trout and their ilk are the same way.

        In DFS, I actually like to go against the grain occasionally (ask Flavor – he will tell you this). However, most times I will always select a RH hitter against a lefty and vice versa with a LH hitter . . . Just better odds of success, especially with non super stars.

      • James said, on July 1, 2015 at 9:39 pm

        Macdog, do you think that’s a trend that’s going to continue for the rest of his career? He’s had a little over 300 PAs this year. I don’t think those numbers are a counter argument to what I’m suggesting, which is that Posey would not all of a sudden turn into a significantly better hitter if he played 1B exclusively.

      • Macdog said, on July 1, 2015 at 10:14 pm

        James, probably not. I’m sure you’ve seen his career splits are slightly better BA/OBP vs. LHP, and significantly better SLG/OPS. But I just thought it’d be fun to throw those ’15 splits out there.

    • blade3colorado said, on July 1, 2015 at 8:45 pm

      No disagreement there . . . Bochy overall is very conscious of the daily pitching match-ups; and therefore, tends to sprinkle more righties or lefties into his LUs as required. Consequently, yeah, I would guess (and agree with you) that Posey has been inserted at first more times then not when a lefty is on the mound.

  45. chipower9 said, on July 1, 2015 at 7:48 pm

    Okay. I brought up my lack of confidence in Casilla a month or so ago. Fuck it…I am done with him. Bochy needs to start giving Romo, Strickland…ANY FUCKING ONE a shot at closing games.

  46. chipower9 said, on July 1, 2015 at 7:50 pm

    Dammit…they were set-up to play for the series win tomorrow and Casilla pisses all down his leg. I am so fucking frosted. I almost threw something. Un Fucking Real.

  47. unca_chuck said, on July 1, 2015 at 7:52 pm

    4 blown saves leads the league.

  48. Bozo said, on July 1, 2015 at 8:04 pm

    Man, all those 6:57 PM posts really summed that turd of a game up.

  49. Paul Sorensen said, on July 1, 2015 at 8:05 pm

    The other day, I posted about this trip something like “Weird shit always seems to happen in Miami”…. ugh. I also posted that playing in DC over 4th of July weekend, as terrifically red-white-and-blue as that may sound, usually sucks. BUT I was hopeful nonetheless and excited to see Cain and Peavy join the fold and hopefully give a boost. I’m still excited to see Cain and Peavy. But yeah, the ‘pen *seems* to have sucked lately. That’s always a major strength of this team, it needs to be figured out soon. Uh, along with everything else that is challenging the team these days….

  50. Macdog said, on July 1, 2015 at 8:19 pm

    There are Mets fans at work, so it could be worse.

  51. snarkk said, on July 1, 2015 at 8:55 pm

    Bottom of the 9th.

  52. snarkk said, on July 1, 2015 at 8:56 pm

    I didn’t know Posey took a hard shot off the mask.
    Just saw it on MLB highlights — he took it pretty much square onto the front of the mask, no glancing blow to either side.
    Just further support that this guy, the franchise guy, needs to move to an infield position…

    • blade3colorado said, on July 1, 2015 at 9:01 pm

      Just my opinion, but I think it will all shake out at the end of the season if Belt doesn’t have a career year.

    • James said, on July 1, 2015 at 9:49 pm

      See my comments above about his 1B numbers. At 3B, an 860 OPS would be great, at 1B very good, especially at ATT. At catcher, they are HoF. That’s the continued dilemma. Most catchers complete their careers w/o the kind of severe injury Matheny suffered, at least as far as we know. OTOH . . . .

      • Macdog said, on July 1, 2015 at 10:38 pm

        Did some quick research. Posey 17 starts at 1B this season: 11 vs. lefties (including 4 vs. Bums’ Anderson) and 6 vs. righties.

  53. zumiee said, on July 1, 2015 at 9:48 pm

    In the world of sports, some other folks had a rough night, too, most notably in the World Cup, the English women’s soccer team lost in their semi-final match when one of their players accidentally kicked the ball into their own goal.

  54. alleykat69 said, on July 1, 2015 at 10:56 pm

    Yeah that poor gal is probably sucking down plenty of shots of liquor after that embarrassment into the wee hours!! Witness protection program can’t come quick enough. She needs Arnold in Eraser to get her life back on track..

  55. zumiee said, on July 2, 2015 at 6:59 am

    Better games from the D-Backs against LA, but still not enough better.
    LA vs. D-Backs, 9-3
    SF vs. D-Backs, 3-9

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