THE San Francisco Giants Blog

Matt Cain

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on July 2, 2015

Welcoming back The Horse today. My expectations are low. Even though he’s only 30 he’s got a ton of innings on that arm and when I think of him I think of a ghost more than the stud he once was. But we really don’t need him to be that guy anymore. Just be something hovering around a 3 or 4.

Sabean must look at his Cain and Zito deals and just want to punch himself in the face. Twice.

Speaking of getting hit in the face, is it time to consider Buster no longer catching? He seems like a pretty expensive target to set up behind the plate.

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158 Responses

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  1. willedav said, on July 2, 2015 at 7:44 am

    Posey is a C, and as someone else posted on previous thread, likes doing it, SPs like him, yada yada.
    He is well aware of the dangers, which of course apply to anyone who is a C.
    We’re not talking about Steve Young here. If he is cleared to go then it’s Bochy decision on LU.

    Susac numbers according to B/R: vs. RHP BA is 100 points lower, .230 vs. .330. OPS difference is 150 points for both OB and slugging. This is for his career, which only encompasses 200 ABs.
    So far vs. Marlins 0-6.

    Marlins guy has been out for long time too and was off to great start in his career. Hope both are OK.

    • chipower9 said, on July 2, 2015 at 7:50 am

      I understand that Posey wants to be back there calling the games, and a lot of the pitchers like him. Oh well, the handwriting is on the wall. I suspect you will see a lot more of Posey at 1B. And as I and many others have pointed out, his numbers when playing 1st vs. C are significantly better. It will also keep him fresh in case the boys make the playoffs, at which point I could see Posey getting most of the work behind the dish.

      • James said, on July 2, 2015 at 8:10 am

        There is a strong likelihood that his career numbers at 1B are better in part because he’s faced lefties more than righties when he’s started there.

      • chipower9 said, on July 2, 2015 at 8:36 am

        Sure, with his numbers being significatly better against LHP (especially SLG %), I don’t doubt that that contributes to his increased nubmers at 1B. Although his career numbers vs. lefties are better, so are they as a 1B vs. C.

        Career vs. LHP/RHP (all positions):

        LHP: .327, .387, .563, .950
        RHP: .301, .370, .458, .808

        1B: .351, .412, .553, .965
        C: .300, .367, .477, .843

        Regardless of how much facing a LHP increases his #s at 1B, last night is a glaring example of why he should be moved sooner rather than later. I don’t know how many remember, but Posey took an absolute beating behind the dish last year. That shit adds up, and does not diminsh with time.

        Based on his stats, and the need to protect their investment, I say it is time to seriously consider a permanent switch to 1B.

  2. chipower9 said, on July 2, 2015 at 7:46 am

    Couple of thoughts. First, going back to last night, I will reiterate what I said then. I was losing confidence in Casilla a month or so ago, and even at that time said I was ready for some platoon action closing (Romo, Strickland…at this point…ANY FUCKING BODY). As Unca stated…four blown saves leads the league. Enuff.

    Also mentioned a few days ago that Bochy said he has confidence in Susac being his every day guy behind the dish. Someone said that Susac has limited ML ABs and not that much experience calling games. Well, what better way to rectify that than to get him out there regularly. To Blade’s comments, even if Belt goes off 2nd half and has a “career half year,” he, IMO, may be the short man out. It is time to move Posey to 1st. James mentioned Matheny and we don’t want to see that happen to our franchise guy.

    I am with you Flav on expectations re: Cain. Hey, if he can be a 3 guy and eat up some innings and win some games, giddy up. No way I expect him to the the anchor to the rotation that Sabes envisioned when he threw Cain that boatload of money.

    Hopefully they can steal the get-away game today after that clusterfuck that Casilla threw out there last night. Yeah, my ass is STILL CHAPPED!

  3. chipower9 said, on July 2, 2015 at 7:47 am

    1. Gregor Blanco (L) CF
    2. Joe Panik (L) 2B
    3. Matt Duffy (R) 3B
    4. Buster Posey (R) 1B
    5. Brandon Belt (L) LF
    6. Brandon Crawford (L) SS
    7. Andrew Susac (R) C
    8. Justin Maxwell (R) RF
    9. Matt Cain (R) P

  4. zumiee said, on July 2, 2015 at 8:01 am

    Morning baseball! Get a win, and get out of that goofy ballpark.

    It’s a crock that the Cubs and Dodgers break two of our players’ bones, and then benefit from that.

    Sabean’s bigger regrets would be missing on draft picks like Brown over Pederson.
    But, overall, Sabean’s diggin’ his great time with the Giants.

  5. zumiee said, on July 2, 2015 at 8:17 am

    Giants signed a short-stop from the Bahamas. Not a thrilling move.

    • zumiee said, on July 2, 2015 at 8:18 am

      For the immediate future, I mean.

  6. willedav said, on July 2, 2015 at 8:21 am

    Giants pitching over all has been disappointment to me. Lincecum I expected, but suckage of others I did not, pen guys especially. I like Casilla and Romo, but there certainly are issues, particularly vs. LH. Strick I just don’t trust after watching him blow that game that Bum dominated vs. Pads. Pads better hitters ate up his fastball, and his command of anything else is questionable.
    Affeldt of course has been terrible, and Giants are down a pen LHP. Lopez, who has mostly been great, also cost them game vs. Rox, and his best role is straight LOOGY. Machi, ugh.

    I know Evans said plugging in someone new with all that they have is a tough fit, but I can see offense being fine once everyone is healthy. Lot of hitters are overachieving and healthy Pence brings a lot to the LU. Pitching staff, no…and there are sellers out there with the goods.

    The Marlins btw, still have 13th best record in entire NL, 13 games under .500 after their 2 Ws in the series. Giants inability to put away crummier teams is sure maddening.

  7. zumiee said, on July 2, 2015 at 8:33 am

    I rarely read the comments at other Giants blogs, because you guys are awesomely better than those guys, πŸ™‚ , but this kind of cracked me up at the Giants Extra comments. Someone wrote this about Bumgarner:

    “On the pitching side, he’s gotten fewer groundballs since he started using his cutter less and his four-seamer more — 40.6% this season vs 45.6% for his career — but he appears to be getting more strikeouts as a result — 25.5% this season vs 23.3% for his career. His walk rate has also been a career low this season — 4.6% vs 5.8% for his career.
    Specifically, his groundball rate against righties has gone down as a result of using the cutter less — 40.2% this season vs 46.2% for his career. This appears to have also resulted in more home runs being given up to righties.”

    I think there was more, but I couldn’t take any more. SABR gone wild! πŸ™‚

    • zumiee said, on July 2, 2015 at 8:37 am

      I guess the thing I find most amusing is the crucial information that Bum’s walk rate has improved by 1.2 %.

    • chipower9 said, on July 2, 2015 at 8:41 am

      Hilarious. And yes…the regulars hear SPANK those on ANY OTHER BLOG! Long live the Flap and Flap Universe!

      • zumiee said, on July 2, 2015 at 8:55 am

        Yes, I agree!

        Plus, the dude’s science isn’t scientific. There’s no actual proven connection between anything he says. It SOUNDS sort of scientific, but it’s not.

      • chipower9 said, on July 2, 2015 at 9:08 am

        If he was rambing that stuff off to me in person, I would tell him to STFU and have another cold one! LMOA…

      • zumiee said, on July 2, 2015 at 9:15 am

        Yeah, and what does 5% less grounders mean? That probably works out to one batter per game. That’s not much to be worrying about.

  8. Flavor said, on July 2, 2015 at 8:43 am

    the signing of Fox is a huge deal. The GIants NEVER sign legit international talent. They gave this dude 6 mil. He could be a huge talent. I’m super stoked about this.

    • chipower9 said, on July 2, 2015 at 9:17 am

      They will be paying a penalty for going over their alloted slot amount, so per the articles I shared below, he will actually cost them around 10 mil.

  9. chipower9 said, on July 2, 2015 at 9:12 am

    Here are some details on the imminent signing of Lucius Fox. BONUS – he was highly coveted by the bumbinos!

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/san-francisco-giants

  10. chipower9 said, on July 2, 2015 at 9:16 am

    Casilla to get a rest (thank fucking goodness) to rest a “tired arm” per Schulman. And here is a bit more on the Fox signing…

    http://www.sfgate.com/giants/article/Giants-Splash-Casilla-to-get-a-rest-plus-huge-6362932.php

  11. Macdog said, on July 2, 2015 at 9:21 am

    Hey, Giants bats are awake so far.

  12. zumiee said, on July 2, 2015 at 9:22 am

    Krukow said yesterday that Blanco has shortened his swing. I’m believing it.

  13. Bozo said, on July 2, 2015 at 9:24 am

    Getting off to a nice start.

  14. Carstie Clausen said, on July 2, 2015 at 9:25 am

    Can’t quite say Belt has heated up vs Miami, but he definitely has warmed up. Three RBI’s and a run scored in the two.1 games so far. Key stolen base last night where he scored a run that ultimately got lost in Casilla’s breakdown. Seems like getting deported to LF is not a big bother so far. Great to see Buster back in the lineup and Cain on the mound.

  15. sandog said, on July 2, 2015 at 9:33 am

    Do you know what they said about Jose Fernandez?

  16. sandog said, on July 2, 2015 at 9:39 am

    They said he was one of the best pitchers in baseball.
    Then, they said his season was over.
    They said it would take a lot of hard work to make it back.
    Dedication. Sacrifice.

    And they were right!

    • Flavor said, on July 2, 2015 at 9:39 am

      it’s been said….

      • sandog said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:15 am

        That bit was for my out of town homies who watch the games on MLB.com. On those webcasts they show a 5 Hour Energy Commerical with Jose Fernandez over and over and over and over that goes something like that.

      • Flavor said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:19 am

        figured it was a bit. Thanks for splainin’ it to me

  17. unca_chuck said, on July 2, 2015 at 9:51 am

    Picked a good day to work from home. Unfortunately I forgot we had a morning game . . .

    Cain got a 2 year rest. His arm should be fine.

  18. unca_chuck said, on July 2, 2015 at 9:54 am

    Let’s hold a fricking lead for a change.

  19. chipower9 said, on July 2, 2015 at 9:57 am

    Charlie – Casilla has a tired arm, so we will not see him in this game.

    • Lisle Ellis said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:15 am

      Yet, we will see definitely see someone from the pen … I’m hard pressed to feel confident in any of them at this point but that may be only a symptom of the aftermath from last night’s loss … consequently, my jock is still in a knot ’round my neck … having difficulty getting oxygen to my pea sized brain.

      • chipower9 said, on July 2, 2015 at 11:09 am

        Well, I have more confindence in Romo or Strickland at this point than Casilla. I just want to see them mix it up, and it sounds like that is the plan for at least a few days. I am DONE with Casilla.

  20. Carstie Clausen said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:06 am

    So, second time through they get to Cain for a couple hits and a run. Fortunately, he was able to get their cleanup hitter Bour before more damage was done. Can he readjust on the fly and get back to mowing them down as in his first trip through their lineup? So far, so not too bad.

  21. unca_chuck said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:09 am

    Y#eah,I heard that this morning Chuck. Problem is, no one in the pen is inspiring huge amounts of confidence.

    Damn. Nice play there.

  22. Bozo said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:21 am

    nice DP there.

    • Carstie Clausen said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:28 am

      Cain may still not be up to par on control, but he does seem to recall how to induce one. Kewl.

  23. unca_chuck said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:21 am

    hoooooooooo niice

  24. Macdog said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:25 am

    Blanco bomb!

  25. unca_chuck said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:25 am

    wham bam, thank you, man

  26. Bozo said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:25 am

    White Shark taking it Deep.

  27. zumiee said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:26 am

    Just like I said- Blanco’s shortened his swing. πŸ™‚

    • willedav said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:33 am

      yeah, knock on guys like him and Panik is hitting the ball in the air too much, but outside of ATT life is just much different for LHs.
      Good for Blanco, he’s making a case to be a regular, even once Aoki and Pence return.

      Giants vs. other teams SPs, ugh. Heston last night, now this.

      • chipower9 said, on July 2, 2015 at 11:11 am

        I don’t see that happening when Pence and Aoki are back, unless Pagan has a meltdown and continues to tank. I just do not see Blanco as an everyday guy over the long haul. But like the way the guy is playing right now.

  28. Carstie Clausen said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:27 am

    Beach advisory for Miami waters: WHITE SHARK ATTACK.

  29. Lisle Ellis said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:32 am

    Is it just me, or has anybody else noticed that Blanco looks like he has bulked up a wee bit? … not by much, but maybe 5lbs or so?

  30. Macdog said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:32 am

    Fucking unbelievable.

    • willedav said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:42 am

      and one…or three. Um, time to adjust scouting report on this guy.

  31. willedav said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:37 am

    And as I say that, Blanco allows the runner who had stopped at 2b to take 3b.

  32. Macdog said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:38 am

    They just can’t beat this team.

  33. unca_chuck said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:38 am

    ouch

  34. Bozo said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:39 am

    Shit

  35. unca_chuck said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:39 am

    Cainshangingshitnow

  36. Lurker John said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:40 am

    The fucking Florida Marlins, 15 under coming in to the series, make the Giants their personal bitches. Unbelievable.

  37. Lisle Ellis said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:40 am

    Boorish … Fuckin cocksucker!

  38. Lurker John said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:40 am

    Sometimes being a fan of this goddamn game makes me want to hang myself.

    • chipower9 said, on July 2, 2015 at 11:12 am

      If your rope is extra long LJ, I may just join you! I was ready last night after Casilla’s fucking meltdown.

  39. zumiee said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:41 am

    Cainer’s just another guy now. Sad.

  40. willedav said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:45 am

    Just asking, but after what hitter did someone get up in the pen?

  41. gianthead said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:45 am

    Did anyone pass on the Bour scouting report to the pitching staff? Lousy start to the road trip that brings them here to DC where we always seem to struggle. Lots of t -storms in the forecast for the weekend. I’ll be at the Sunday night game of the week….

    • Macdog said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:50 am

      Must be the same scout who reports on Arenado and Turner.

  42. Lisle Ellis said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:46 am

    Looks like it’s back to business as usual for latter day Cain: walks followed by dingers … A nice fat 9.00+era for openers

  43. unca_chuck said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:49 am

    Man we’ve been close to ripping Fernandez. Belt cannot pick up that change up to save his life. . .

  44. Carstie Clausen said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:51 am

    No matter how battered and bad the bullpen happens to be right now, Cain simply ran out of gas there in the fifth. Tipoff was that dinger to the opposing starter. Bochy can be faulted for letting him pitch to Bour and then keeping him in there after his third tater in three days vs Giants pitching. Time to call up that potential fireman now gone from 19 saves at Richmond to Sacto.

  45. unca_chuck said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:51 am

    Christ, one game back and you throw in the towel on Cain? Tough crowd.

    He started well. He’s got to get his legs back and settle in. He needs 3-4 more starts to get rolling.

    • Carstie Clausen said, on July 2, 2015 at 12:10 pm

      Chuck: No i’m good on Cain getting it together. But he is not some rookie starter who needed to be coddled by Bochy. It became pretty obvious he was losing it there in the fifth. At this point, maybe Kontos would have been the fireman to face Bour. Anyway i see it the same as you on that 3-4 starts to reach a decent plateau. The cooler weather in SF will help the process.

  46. willedav said, on July 2, 2015 at 11:03 am

    Dee Gordon is off to great start this season and came into tonight hitting .350.
    This series he has a HR (really a triple/error) and another triple yesterday, big hits.
    Those are also the only times he has been on base–0-3 today 2-12 in the series.

    cbs site says he has 10 BBs in 326 ABs this year, and 7 all year at home, half the season. A guy with his speed, I don’t see how as a leadoff guy that’s gonna work.

  47. xoot said, on July 2, 2015 at 11:04 am

    Jeeeezus, check in from the work computer and see the Giants trying to lose another to the crappie fish? Tough patch ahead, unless Pence comes back and Cain settles in. Meanwhile, as to the international signings that started yesterday: http://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/dodgersnow/la-sp-dn-dodgers-big-international–20150702-story.html

    • xoot said, on July 2, 2015 at 11:05 am

      or that started today, I guess. Weekend can’t get here soon enough for me.

    • chipower9 said, on July 2, 2015 at 11:19 am

      Fuck those cocksuckers.

  48. chipower9 said, on July 2, 2015 at 11:13 am

    Okay…we need a two out rally here. Come on Giants get the fuck off the canvas!

  49. unca_chuck said, on July 2, 2015 at 11:14 am

    Wow. Never seen this guy pitch before. He moves his drive leg a foot closer to the plate before throwing.

    How the fuck is that legal? They bust that shit in women’s fast-pitch softball.

    • willedav said, on July 2, 2015 at 11:20 am

      exactly. Even in LL softball that’s not legal. If he is not throwing when in contact with rubber, I don’t get it.

  50. chipower9 said, on July 2, 2015 at 11:15 am

    LameDay sucks balls! Cannot get the audio today at work…

  51. unca_chuck said, on July 2, 2015 at 11:15 am

    Taking a FB down the middle? Fuck.

  52. Macdog said, on July 2, 2015 at 11:15 am

    And now here’s the cheating reliever.

  53. chipower9 said, on July 2, 2015 at 11:16 am

    FUCK! It was set-up for the DuffMan. Miami sucks…cannot get out of south Florida quick enough…even if it is a trip to DC in July.

  54. Lurker John said, on July 2, 2015 at 11:20 am

    Chuck, I’m not bagging on Cain, I think he’ll be fine. My frustration comes more from the previous two games, especially last night. We should be thumping these idiots.

    • Lisle Ellis said, on July 2, 2015 at 4:23 pm

      I feel ya! There is lot I want to get off my chest, but I’m gonna chillax … or I’ll embarrass myself (prob already
      have – I can be slow on the uptake). It’s all ptsd from the past week or so starting with the blown 14K Bum gem against the Pads … seems like a lot of stupid losses in a short span.

  55. Lurker John said, on July 2, 2015 at 11:21 am

    Hey, I just saw the Dubs resigned Draymond. That takes a little of the sting away.

  56. zumiee said, on July 2, 2015 at 11:26 am

    Beat the cheater!

  57. unca_chuck said, on July 2, 2015 at 11:27 am

    Damn. 3 run bombs vs solos . . . Come on Crawfish

  58. Macdog said, on July 2, 2015 at 11:38 am

    The only kind of Pa-gone we see these days. That leaves Ishi or Adrianza to lead off the 9th. I’d rather see MadBum.

  59. unca_chuck said, on July 2, 2015 at 11:55 am

    Shit…..

  60. chipower9 said, on July 2, 2015 at 11:56 am

    Fucking swept by the lowlife fish.

  61. Macdog said, on July 2, 2015 at 11:56 am

    How Not to Win the West — or a Wild-Card spot:

    Miami 2-5

    Arizona 3-7

    Colorado 5-7

  62. chipower9 said, on July 2, 2015 at 11:57 am

    Marlins hit a 3 run homer in each game. Giants have one 3 run homer ALL YEAR.

  63. Carstie Clausen said, on July 2, 2015 at 12:04 pm

    So they go down with a whimper. Anybody else notice that Duffy probably does not belong in the 3-hole. He appears psychologically overmatched with that level of responsibility just yet. Belt goes there. Duffy maybe bats sixth. Good to see Buster blaster even after than near-concussion. Bullpen got it done, but Machi still needs to be replaced by Osich, in my opinion. Kontos has been a pillar of productivity.

    Cain obviously is rusty when it comes to control. He should improve. Maybe next time, under cooler conditions he will go a solid six.

  64. willedav said, on July 2, 2015 at 12:22 pm

    Kontos did a great job to hold off Fish there in 8th and keep hopes alive. He’s been really good and very pleasant surprise this year. Giants had a shot and were in all 3, disappointing to drop them all to sub-.500 team.

    Susac 0 for Miami in 10 ABs vs. RHP. I don’t think he is full time answer and not more than a young guy still learning, A couple days a week plus spot started vs. LHP. Right now when SF is short handed, OK, he’s as good an option as Ishi Arias Max or Triple O. But once Aoki (and hopefully Pence) are back after AS break next week, he’s a back up to Posey, the AS C, and Belt stays at 1b.

    • willedav said, on July 2, 2015 at 12:27 pm

      And imo that has got to be Posey’s call and he’s said all along he wants to C.
      I’m sure he’ll play 1b when asked but as long as he wants to be Giants starting C, I’d let him.

    • snarkk said, on July 2, 2015 at 6:29 pm

      If I’m the Giants and paying Posey 168 million bones, he’ll play where I tell him to play…

      • wilcojoe said, on July 2, 2015 at 7:15 pm

        Exactly. Every team in the league would require him to vacate the Catcher position if they were dishing out that money. I would almost guarantee this is his last year behind the plate.

  65. chipower9 said, on July 2, 2015 at 12:39 pm

    Well, perhaps “immediately’ is premature on changing of the guard on C, but I think it needs to happen sooner rather than later. Everyone goes through their hitless streaks. I think Susac is going to be good. And the more time he gets the better prepared he is for the job, full time.

  66. blade3colorado said, on July 2, 2015 at 1:23 pm

    Bozo (John), I got your email – I’ll respond there too . . . In Charleston, S. Carolina for a couple of days visiting a lady friend (may be longer, may be shorter). I will touch base with you when I leave and find out if you have returned from Washington D.C. Hopefully, we can hook up for lunch and/or dinner. πŸ™‚

  67. snarkk said, on July 2, 2015 at 5:39 pm

    I’ll take this Cain start with a grain of salt. The next one will be more telling.
    Meanwhile, I saw a rating where the Giants have the 2nd most expensive in-park home beer prices in MLB. The winner? Red Sox…

    • sandog said, on July 2, 2015 at 5:58 pm

      I wonder where San Diego ranked on that list with their $12 cans of Modelo that sell like crazy.

  68. snarkk said, on July 2, 2015 at 5:43 pm

    Giants signing of Lucius Fox for $6 million means actually shelling out around $10 million when the international tax is thrown in, for going over their allotment. Another infielder — but maybe they will convert him to CF, so I’ve read as a possibility. At least they showed some real interest in somebody rated highly from the international side (though the kid spent a ton of his high school life in Florida)…

    • xoot said, on July 2, 2015 at 10:19 pm

      the dodgers yet again went all in on Cubans, and will pay a fortune for it. The Giants went for one int’l player with none of that complex background, or baggage. Hell, are the Bahamas even IN the Caribe? I don’t think so. This stuff is by design. At least SF is finally using some of its money to get into that market.

      • snarkk said, on July 3, 2015 at 8:55 am

        I was in the Bahamas (Nassau) once a long time ago. Definitely a Carribean vibe, particulary away from the main town areas, even though only about a 20 minute flight off of Miami. Lots of islands in the Bahamas chain south and east of Nassau where the vibe supposedly gets very islandish. I’m lovin’ seeing the Giants shell out some risky coin for a possible winner player from outside the US draft. They’ve got the coin, let’s see it used, and used in future for some outfielders. Since they blew their alottted international wad and then some, they’ll be limited in how much per player ($300k) they can spend over the next two years. They’ve got to change this international signing regime in the next CBA, it makes no sense IMO, too complex and the big money teams seem to be getting the supposed top players anyway. Some form of draft needs to be formed for international, including trading of draft rights for existing players, etc. The international players could always get together and refuse to enter a draft, but I doubt they could pull that kind of togetherness together. A draft would probably drive down these big time player signing dollars, and agents won’t like that…

  69. djloo27 said, on July 2, 2015 at 7:31 pm

    Twin’s suggestion of starting Blanco ahead of Pagan did not go over very well a few weeks ago.
    Second thoughts?

  70. willedav said, on July 2, 2015 at 7:55 pm

    Seriously, you guys are gonna tell Posey where he’s gonna play and like it?
    He’s an AS C. Susac has 200 ABs in his entire career, less than 2 yrs ml experience, and you’d turn the entire pitching staff over to him in place of the guy with 3 WS rings? Not to mention the fact he is getting overwhelmed by RHP to the tune of less than .230 avg. Wow.
    Bochy rested him enough last year that he was able to hit .390 in Sept. Imo, I’m trusting Bochy on this one.

    Loo, Pagan has been so bad, Blanco has to take that spot. He has zero pop and all offensive stats are dropping like the proverbial French middleweights. I thought all along a full season of Pagan would do wonders, for the team but not no more.
    This isn’t about Blanco love either. Right now he is a better fielder and a better hitter, no contest.

    • snarkk said, on July 2, 2015 at 8:52 pm

      Yeah, seriously.
      One more shot to the noggin’ could put him over into La La land, and he can’t play. Ever. Again. Like Metheny. I’m not into taking that risk much longer, if I’m the one cutting checks to him. He’s a good soldier. He can play first or third and like it. The money spends just as well…

  71. Paul Sorensen said, on July 2, 2015 at 8:15 pm

    This actually could be turning out to be a *bad penny year* but not how Sabean meant it a couple of years ago; this year, it’s just related to injuries. To not have Pence (and who knows if he’ll ever be healed this year), Cain, Peavy, Aoki, etc… that’s a lot of handicap for the team. I’d add Casilla (tired arm?, maybe, but also could be worse than that, there was something about a sore shoulder), and Pagan …. he looks done, but could he really be done, that quickly? Probably more likely hurt somewhere (legs), and he will probably never be fully healthy again… aging will do that. And yet, here they are, still *in it* and I think they will be fine in the end. Personally, I’d love to see a) no Giants go to the All Star game, a rest would do them all well, and/or b) monsoons wash over DC over the weekend and all 3 games get rained out. The boys can use the time off to hit a nice all-day spa and chill for a bit. But then again, massage is usually my answer for just about anything….

  72. mrsprtdude said, on July 2, 2015 at 9:44 pm

    Lets not throw in the towel yet. Only half way done. major injuries ans specifically missing our 2nd best player.

    • Paul Sorensen said, on July 2, 2015 at 11:04 pm

      Which is exactly why I said “I think they’ll be fine in the end…”….

  73. unca_chuck said, on July 2, 2015 at 11:21 pm

    Carsite, the 3 hole has been a black hole this year. Only lead off and the pitcher’s spot have less HRs and RBIs.

    That;s mainly because of Pagan, but Duff needs to settle in. Or Pence has to come back. All these injuries have led to this kerfuffle.

  74. James said, on July 3, 2015 at 6:39 am

    What if Buster moves to first and Susac gets dinged a few times like Hector Sanchez? Where will Susac play? I’m confused by the ethics, if not the economics!

    • willedav said, on July 3, 2015 at 7:04 am

      Exactly. Any C at any time is at risk and always has been, and they know it. Deep down most C acknowledge all the little injuries, live and deal with it on daily basis as de rigeur. That’s baseball, whether you are making league minimum or are top of the salary chain.
      Posey could have caught yesterday and likely would have if not for OF injuries. I really think it’s in best interest of the club for him to C as long as possible, not “protect” him somewhere like a glass vase in a museum.

      But if the argument is Susac over Belt once SF is at full strength I don’t get that one either, from offensive or defensive end. Best LU imo would be Posey C, Belt 1b, Aoki in LF Susac back up C twice a week and adding some pop to the bench.

      Giants issue with position players is what to do with CF, not C or 1b..

    • snarkk said, on July 3, 2015 at 8:49 am

      Tommy friggin Joseph is moving to 1b due to concussion risk and his history.
      I think Hector should never catch again given his recent history, but I’m not sure the Giants agree.
      There’s no confusion in my mind about ethics, but there may be with the Giants organization about Hector.
      Until Susac gets concussed and has health issues, there’s no ethics problem with him playing behind the dish. But, there’s definitely an economic risk with Posey doing so, since he makes about $166 million more guaranteed than Susac. Do I want a healthy Susac or a healthy Posey risking his noggin’ behind the dish? Gee, let me think about that one. That’s not an ethics dilemma, that’s protecting an investment with no ethical issue at all as long as they’re both healthy.
      Plus, Posey’s a better hitter by far when playing 1b, the highly nebulous righty v. lefty pitcher thang notwithstanding…

      • blade3colorado said, on July 3, 2015 at 9:30 am

        Good points by both you and Willie. Still, I would have no issues with the Giants brass moving Posey to 1st for the reasons you elaborated on snarkk. Two keys – the Giants need pitching and I believe Belt will likely play a major role in acquiring a quality arm. Whether that occurs now or the end of the season, I don’t know. In my opinion, Belt still hasn’t shown he is UNEQUIVOCALLY a star. I can name 12 1st basemen who are currently better or equal to Belt in the MLB.

      • snarkk said, on July 3, 2015 at 9:37 am

        Duffy’s put a major twist into the Posey plan, if there is one. If Belt were doing a lot, I’d put money on Posey going to third eventually. Now, with Duffy manning third pretty well, 1b looks more like the Posey place. I had Posey going the Joe Torre route from C to 3rd to eventually managing, but maybe that trip now skips onto 1b, not 3b. If I were Belt, I’d welcome a trade — my HR numbers are going to jump and a new coaching situation will probably turn loose my offense so I can play 1b without getting jacked around in various ways. If Belt played at Texas or in Houston, his offensive stats would skyrocket, and he’d be placed to make some major coin as a FA…

      • blade3colorado said, on July 3, 2015 at 9:46 am

        Dunno “about being jacked around,” but another lefty had NO issues placing bombs in McCovey Cove. Not saying Belt should be Bonds like – no one is, but Belt has underperformed in his career. Yes, bad luck/injuries have effected him, but I still feel this season will tell a lot about him and whether he remains with the Giants.

      • snarkk said, on July 3, 2015 at 9:49 am

        Maybe Belt has not underperformed, maybe the expectations put on him were overperformed. And, BTW he’s been undercoached and totally mismanaged from the get go when he was brought up too early, IMO. Now, he’s supposed to get his offense in gear while basically learning to play a new position on the fly, since the Giants brass haven’t prepared him much to play out in LF. He played what, one ST game out there? Big kid, must be big performance? Doesn’t always work that way…

    • xoot said, on July 3, 2015 at 9:40 am

      threaded through the economics are cannon-fodder questions–who’s most/least expendable, not to mention expensive? Looks like an ethical issue to me under the Giants circumstances. No problem, usually, when the great player can really only catch. Yadier, Pudge. They stick it out in the trenches despite the dangers. And I agree, that’s baseball. Ask any of the many current managers who used to catch (including M. Matheny). It’s a conundrum. Your field general is your cannon fodder.

      • zumiee said, on July 3, 2015 at 9:58 am

        Yeah, the sport itself has an issue: catching is dangerous, and we know more about the danger with more scientific knowledge about concussions.
        Thankfully, the sport made sane rules to lessen home plate collisions. Maybe headgear could be improved to lessen the effects of foul balls.

  75. snarkk said, on July 3, 2015 at 9:47 am

    This 6 game roadie East isn’t fraught with the usual heat stroke risk. But, it seems there could be a risk of 1-5 or worse, as usual. I take it as a good sign. Don’t the Gyros usually do well in a season where they crater in an Eastern roadie?…

  76. snarkk said, on July 3, 2015 at 9:56 am

    I’ve always wondered about that thing about Pitchers and Catchers, where after a well pitched start, the pitcher says “yeah, Buster and I were on the same page, I didn’t shake him off once”. What about well pitched games where the pitcher shakes the catcher off a lot, as in a vet pitcher and young catcher. I’m sure that’s happened fairly often. I think the vet catcher behind the dish is overblown, it depends on the staff. If you have a young staff, a vet catcher is needed. If you have a good, vet staff, you can put blade behind the dish, and the pitching turns out well. πŸ˜‰ Trouble is, the Giants staff is going to get young real soon, ‘cuz Timmeh, Voggy and Huddy are gone next season. Posey could be needed even more next year than this year behind the dish…

    • blade3colorado said, on July 3, 2015 at 10:00 am

      No, blade doesn’t catch, much less does any athletic endeavors anymore, outside of Nintendo, PlayStation, and other electronic games. By the by, thinking how grateful I am that I only suffered a broken rib in football. πŸ˜‰

      • snarkk said, on July 3, 2015 at 11:39 am

        Wait.
        I thought you work out a lot and get athletic when you go to SE Asia?…

    • blade3colorado said, on July 3, 2015 at 10:08 am

      You reminded me of something I just read recently regarding your comment about us losing 3 pitchers next season and having to fill those slots. It will be quite expensive for us to fill one slot with a quality pitcher, much less 2 or 3 openings. Why? The premise of the column stated that pitching agents will KNOW we are desperate for pitching help and will take advantage of hosing us for every single penny they can get. Likewise, GMs will also be aware of our situation and get us into outrageous bidding situations. Wish I could find the column. It was excellent.

      • snarkk said, on July 3, 2015 at 10:48 am

        Well, some of those touted young arms in our system below, if they’re not traded, better be ready to step into the breach and fill some spots next year….

    • blade3colorado said, on July 3, 2015 at 11:44 am

      Ever since my bicep and shoulder injury in 2008, I have been circumspect about all sporting activities. I am a very good skier, and loved mountain biking . . . but those 2 activities I haven’t done since 2008. Softball? Shit, I throw like a girl now, i.e., that even pre-dates my bicep/shoulder surgery. Last softball game was in 2004 I think. I would usually start the season at SS, but by the end of the season, I would be at first base, catcher, or quit due to shoulder and/or pulled hammy injuries.

  77. snarkk said, on July 3, 2015 at 10:03 am

    Somebody needs to do a study on how many foul tips are finding catchers’ masks these days compared to historical levels. Probably no EZ way, or way at all, to measure that. I’ve seen a surmise that there are more catchers getting concussed now because there are more strikeouts in this post steroid era, meaning more foul tips per game than there used to be. Plausible. Also, maybe these hockey type headgears are not truly that protective.. They need to find a way to transfer the shock of the ball hitting the mask somewhere other than directly into the skull. I wonder if there could be a system where the mask is attached to some kind of brace in the back where the shock of getting hit in the mask would transfer down into the back, not into the skull. The brace obviously would need to allow freedom of movement. Somebody’s probably looking into it…

  78. snarkk said, on July 3, 2015 at 10:08 am

    If you were Posey and had $120 million in the bank when you retire from playing, would you get into managing? Not your money, but baseball. I might try it for a while, just to keep busy at something I knew and loved. He can always run for senator from Georgia, I suppose…

  79. Carstie Clausen said, on July 3, 2015 at 10:25 am

    In baseball there is ONE position which has come to experience a fairly high level of concussions. Last night i read a piece in the New York Review of Books and learned a thing or two about the NFL. Virtually EVERY NFL player has concussion issues. The average shelf-life in pro football is a tad over three years. Average lifespan for an NFL veteran is about 18 years less than that of the random man in the street.

    Americans are addicted to vicarious violence. Pro football is a somewhat less bloody exercise than those gladiatorial “contests” which exemplified the previous primary world-empire ~ post Republican Rome. Advertisers are massively addicted to NFL revenues.

    The NFL is the sick archetypical symbol of a sick society.

  80. wilcojoe said, on July 3, 2015 at 11:23 am

    Snarkk is spot on regarding everyone’s over-exceeding expectations on Belt. I remember following him as a Longhorn and though he was good, he wasn’t even close to being the best player on the team. He also didn’t have the power numbers that he had in the minors. He was a classic late bloomer. If I remember correctly, he played pitcher in high school and didn’t move to 1b until he transferred to UT from the local community college down the road. Even when the Giants drafted him, I thought his college rival and minor league teammate Roger Kieschnick was the superior hitter. At least at Texas Tech he (Kieschnick) certainly was. But Belt’s progression in the minors was not that of your typical Bowker gang banger. He quickly shot up the Giants and MLB’s prospect rankings. He comes up and quickly rakes, gets a cutesy nickname, and the next thing you know he is the second coming of Will the Thrill. Then He fell victim to Bochy’s preference of veteran bias, dealt with coaches tinkering with his grip, and had to hear about his dour demeanor and sluggish shoulders. Let’s not forget he married a heavy set woman, where baseball scouts have long held is a sure sign of a lack of confidence. Fortunately his team is a bi-annual World Series winner, so those lofty expectations take a backseat every even numbered year.

    I really think we just need to realize that Belt is what he is. As Blade said, there is probably 10-12 first baseman with superior offensive numbers. I don’t expect Belt to have a “breakout” year. A career year, you bet. He is a slightly above average offensive hitter with superior defensive skills and a likeable teammate. Hell, I will take that all day long.

    • blade3colorado said, on July 3, 2015 at 11:38 am

      Good assessment Joe!

      • snarkk said, on July 3, 2015 at 11:42 am

        Agreed. Like the Texas local knowledge. I swear, if Belt goes to a Texas team he’s going to clean up. IMO Belt’s hesitance now at the plate in taking lots of called third strikes is that the dude has been confused by mixed signals from management from the get go. He initially took a lot of walks, had a high OBP, but, then Bochy tells him to get “aggressive” and swing for power. So, he swings at shit and K’s a lot swinging. Then, to back off that, he starts taking pitches again, and looks for the perfect pitch he can square up and get it out of the park or off the wall. His approach has not been consistent — from an on base guy, to a guy with power, to a guy looking for the perfect pitch that can’t pull the trigger on a close pitch when down two strikes. I think Belt would really benefit from a change of scenery and coaching staff, and a park that doesn’t kill LH power not named Bonds…

    • blade3colorado said, on July 3, 2015 at 11:51 am

      Actually, I think there is a good fit with the Yankees. Teixeira is having a somewhat a renaissance season, but he will be replaced IMO . . . Perhaps next season. However, I do agree that Belt would be a huge improvement over Carter with the Astros. Fielder is going nowhere, so that Texas team is out.

  81. snarkk said, on July 3, 2015 at 11:37 am

    Has Sabes not been looking at the girlfriends of these outfield draft prospects over the years? Has he not been doing the slim/average/heavy set analysis for these chicks? Must be NO — so THAT explains why he’s sucked at developing outfielders! WilcoJoe, you’ve solved the mystery of the dearth of Giants home-grown OFers since the mid ’90s!. Now, I can sleep at night… πŸ˜‰

    • blade3colorado said, on July 3, 2015 at 11:39 am

      I actually thought that was a pretty good “tell” insofar as indicator of confidence. Who knew? πŸ˜‰

      • snarkk said, on July 3, 2015 at 11:41 am

        I thought baldness was an indicator of superior intelligence…

      • blade3colorado said, on July 3, 2015 at 11:45 am

        I wrote too quick . . . I meant confidence (per Joe’s post). LOL

      • wilcojoe said, on July 3, 2015 at 12:33 pm

        I actually stole the “fat girfriiend” piece from the Moneyball movie. So unfortunately I can’t take credit for it. πŸ˜‰

  82. ewisco said, on July 3, 2015 at 11:44 am

    It’s not so important what WE think of Belt’s potential, we just need an AL team that thinks highly of him and we should be able to get something of value in return. and he does look like he has unfilled potential, especially in a better hitter’s park, so i have to imagine that someone out there would love to have him. I have to say that i really don’t expect any help for this year’s team, but if they could get a young outfielder or two or maybe some more young pitching, that could help down the road . . .

    • snarkk said, on July 3, 2015 at 11:54 am

      Giants drafted Chris Shaw, the 1b out of Boston College, LHed bat, in round 1, supposedly an HR power bat. Some have said that’s a sign they’re ready to trade Belt. I dunno. But, if I were running the Giants draft, I would draft RHed power bats for the corner IF and OF positions, since left field at ATT is fine in terms of hitting HRs, particularly day games. On the contrary, I would draft LHed speed and gap power bats at other positions to take advantage of the Death Valley in Rcenter field. IMO, drafting LH home run power is totally wrongheaded given the anti-LH power bat bias configuration of ATT Park…

  83. snarkk said, on July 3, 2015 at 12:20 pm

    Interesting info on the hitter/pitcher favoring AAA ballparks.
    The River Cats play in the most pitcher friendly park in the PCL, by far. So, take the Giants pitchers’ performance down there with a bit of a grain of salt. And, as the article says on bottom, Duvall’s stats are really better than indicated considering he’s hitting in the best pitcher’s park in the PCL. The Fresno ballpark is pretty much the fairest to hitters and pitchers in the PCL…

    http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20150703&content_id=134278096&fext=.jsp&vkey=news_milb&sid=milb

  84. wilcojoe said, on July 3, 2015 at 12:38 pm

    I agree Belt would be a perfect fit here in Houston. I would be shocked if Sabean and Luhnow haven’t discussed it for quite some time. Now with Springer out for possibly the rest of the year, Houston might overpay for an experienced bat like Belt’s. As I have said before, the high walk, high OPS Belt is exactly what Houston covets and the polar opposite of Chris “Special K” Carter.

  85. snarkk said, on July 3, 2015 at 12:52 pm

    Per Baggs:

    Hudson to the 15-day DL, Peavy in.
    Ishi DFA’d (gonna miss that great defense)
    Ryan Lollis up from Sac as OFer.
    Osich up, too.
    Another move coming, not announced yet, to make room for Osich…

  86. Macdog said, on July 3, 2015 at 12:58 pm

    Another HR for Bour (Cubs), so at least the guy doesn’t hit ’em only against the Giants.

    • zumiee said, on July 3, 2015 at 2:00 pm

      Morse has been Wally Pipped!

    • pawliekokonuts said, on July 3, 2015 at 2:06 pm

      I just tweeted essentially the same point re Bour.

  87. zumiee said, on July 3, 2015 at 2:05 pm

    Just bought the 6/29 Sports Illustrated, Curry on the cover with the championship trophy. Great photo, and a pretty well- written article. Nothing super new in the article, but a fine tribute to that amazing player and team.

  88. djloo27 said, on July 3, 2015 at 2:05 pm

    Today’s game is free on MLB TV and ESPN…

  89. pawliekokonuts said, on July 3, 2015 at 2:14 pm

    Regarding team chemistry (yesterday’s topic), it does matter. To that end, just today I read the intro essay by Jeremy Affeldt in the keepsake book “Champions Together,” or whatever it is called. He’s adent writer, and it is a lovely book. Affeldt says Bochy had a team meeting and put it under trust. You’ve gotta trust me. And if we get into the playoffs, trust me. Trust me thatr we may end up doing things differently than other organizations, but trust me. They did. They won.

    Puig doesn’t bother me. I’d rather see a “bad boy” be overt, a la Dick Allen or insert a dozen other names. Better that than a sunny exterior masking a dark, disgruntled employee [insert name of a former SF third baseman here].

    Orchestrating to move my mom, 98, from Connecticut to Syracuse. That’s one reason you haven’t seen much of me.

  90. pawliekokonuts said, on July 3, 2015 at 2:22 pm

    p.s. I am probably going to Pawsox at Chiefs tmrw. No Manny Burriss! He’s up!

  91. snarkk said, on July 3, 2015 at 2:32 pm

    Broadway back down to make room for Osich.
    Brett Bochy DFA’d to make room on 40 man.
    Wonder if papa Bochy made the call?…

  92. James said, on July 3, 2015 at 2:49 pm

    Snarrk’s guess that the increased number of Ks have resulted in more foul tips reminded me of this article:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/09/baseball-offensive-drought-and-camera-technology/379443/

    Not sure if someone else has posted previously, but I came across it just recently and found it a little surprising, especially the stats on the umpires. Kruk sez “He’ll definitely give you the pitch around the knees.”

    • snarkk said, on July 3, 2015 at 3:03 pm

      Interesting article. Well, if the umps call the low strike, that should, theoretically, speed up the game. That’s what MLB wants, supposedly. If they’re concerned about lack of offense, use cameras to enforce a new strike zone that starts at the knees, so no more low strikes. But, that’s not good for people like Heston and Hudson or guys with splitters…

    • xoot said, on July 3, 2015 at 3:14 pm

      yeah, good article. As to the steroid era, the best stat isn’t the total HRs per year, it’s the number of players per year who hit 40 or more HRs. Graph that stat and the steroid era rises like Mt. Shasta out of the valley.

  93. Flavor said, on July 3, 2015 at 3:19 pm

    new thread

  94. snarkk said, on July 3, 2015 at 3:19 pm

    Lotsa pitchers were using ‘roids, too in the Steroid Era. So, the drop in HRs tells me maybe the playing field isn’t as level as before in terms of PEDs — I’d guess there are still some pitchers using PEDs — hell, maybe a lot of ’em are…


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