The Difference Between Winning it All and Saying You can Win it All
A lot is being written lately about teams that CAN make it to the World Series. Tweets giving fan bases hope. “The Cubs can win it all this year.” “Toronto can make the playoffs.” It all seems like so much BS to me. There’s a dozen teams that COULD make the playoffs. But saying that a team has what it takes to win the World Series, without having done it, just seems fake and baseless.
All of those same internet scribes who are enlightening us about all these teams that *could* win it all were the ones telling us that the Giants had no chance in 2010. 2012. 2014.
Truth is, no one knows if the Cubs can win it until they do it. Same with the Royals, no matter how many wins they pile up in the regular season.
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Are any of those team leaking oil because I hear everybody is doing it these days. At least according to the Giants propaganda machine. Bochy says it, Sabevans says it, heck even Krukow and Tommy T drop the line these days. Oil, oil, everybody is leaking oil. Panik (who isn’t even taking swings yet)? Oh, he’ll be fine.
Agree, Craig. Great thread. And on that note…
Four in Six? Why Not?!
Humm Baby – Let’s Do It Again!
This is why I give Bochy a TON of respect. And why I disagree wholeheartedly with James. Playoff baseball is a whole different animal than the endless regular season. Piling up wins against weak-ass foes is all well and good (hello Washington), and for all the success St. Louis has had in recent memory, Metheny hasn’t gotten them over the hump.
Pittsburgh and the Cubbies fall in the category of not having had any recent success. Although Pitts has been there. the Dogs? Please. If managing didn’t matter, they’d have won it already. Bochy has managed circles around everyone he’s faced these past 5 years. No other manager in the game goes with his star pitcher in a relief role for 5 innings 2 days after pitching. No one.
Agree, Charlie.
Speaking of chemistry, this is appropriately timed.
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/24/lets-all-argue-about-team-chemistry-again/
I don’t know who the fuck Craig Calcaterra is…from what I can tell via searches, he is a writer who knows little about the game of baseball. Whatever.
I believe that talent is the most important ingredient in winning. After that, it helps to have a manager like Bochy who knows how to push the right buttons and pull the right levers, and to do so at the right time. And then there is chemistry. It is totally subjective, as there is no way to measure it. It may not be the most important ingredient, but I do feel it can play a role in how well a team performs.
Here’s some inside scoop. My wife put Panik and his GF in an apartment in Walnut Creek, and she had to call his gf to confirm that their 6 month lease is up end of September, and are they going another 30 days. She asked about Joe and how his back is and his GF said he’s feeling very good, but that they are being extra cautious with his back to make sure he is 100%. He’s in AZ rehabbing, but will start taking swings very shortly. She said he’s going nuts but gets that they need him back at full strength.
Great scoop. Interesting that the GF’s slant is the same as the club’s and their medicos (I shared the latest from the Giants yesterday…basically the same).
Heh heh. Yeah, pretty much!
Good for back healing that his GF is in WC and he’s in Phoenix…
Wink wink nudge nudge
I agree with you on Bochy, chuck. Especially his post season moves. I don’t know that turning to Bumgarner in game 7 was some out of the box move. Most managers would’ve done it. Letting him finish the game is an arguable point but who knows. Really it was all about the lead up to it and how Bochy set it up perfect for game 7. I still can’t believe Bumgarner didn’t get the W for that game 7 performance.
One of the hardest things about coaching (my own personal issue) is figuring out what someone really can do, not just what you (or they) think they can do.
Given what he has Bochy has adjusted to what his individuals can do, and he’s had 3 pretty different teams during the Giants run. Some constants, yes, but the influx of young pitching along with Duffy as a regular and addition of other kid call ups and now old guy vet Marlon Byrd, again 2015 is “something completely different.”
Pawlie, thx for tip on Antonya Nelson. I read a collection of her short stories, “Funny Once” that was really good. I’m re-reading Starry Night right now, up to the Braves collapse, finished off by Pence rbi for Phils.
Great jazz saxophonist and composer Wayne Shorter is 82 today. Loved his music from Jazz Messengers days on through Blue Note days, Miles etc.
Saw Shorter when he was with Weather Report, they opened for Sonny at the old Opera house in SF (or was it the symphony hall? I don’t remember, but the acoustics were awesome ), it was when Jaco Pastorius was playing bass for them. Sonny came out after Weather Report and laid all the mics down on the floor and blew a solo thing that kicked everyone’s ass. Also saw Wayne play with VSOP a few times (years ago I took lessons with Tony Williams, so I pretty much went to everything he was a part of, not to mention he was one of my favorite drummers of all time).
Happy birthday to Wayne.
Yeah, as far as winning it all goes, it takes moves by the front office that pay off. Like getting Huff in the offseason and getting Burrell and Ross in the stretch run in 2010 did, or how Beltran didn’t in 2011. Glasschez and Pence in 2012, Peavy in 2014 . . .
I thought they picked up Glass in 2009. Scutaro in 2012.
Glass was definitely 2010. Was at the WS game when he banged out 3 doubles and made some amazing plays in the field. One of the best performances I’ve see from a Giant, ever
Ahhh. A mind is a terrible thing to lose . . .
They acquired Garko and Sanchez about the same time, different deals, in 2009, I believe.
That is how I remember it too, xoot. Like Flavor I think his 2010 post season performance was amazing. He was just as deserving of the WS MVP. Really the whole 2010 season and playoff run was amazing. There may have been a move that didn’t work out for Bochy but I don’t remember it.
Yep, Sanchez was acquired in July or August of ’09 for Tim Alderson.
And Alderson was a fairly highly touted prospect, but I don’t believe he ever made it to the show.
I think when they picked up Sanchez he went on, or was still on the DL. So 09 we didn’t get much from him. After that, oh yeah…
Give us are goddam respect baseball!!
All roads go through the World Series Champs.And until we’re officially eliminated every freakin team will have to fear us, don’t give a shit if they have a better record, cause we’ve proved that in every playoff with the best manager and proven vets who don’t get rattled under in circumstances !!!
Ready for 4 in 6 Giants on top of world again!
Another example of post season brilliance by Bochy was in leaving off guys he didn’t feel could help, as in the Gamer and Zito. And although it was a brilliant move to pull Lincecum into the game out of the pen 2012, he didn’t see any action last year either. Bochy did claim he was going into the 18 inning game if it went any longer, but Mr. OPS (0-6 up to that) put SF ahead to stay.
If SF should get in this season, there are others who will defintely get Zitoed.
Might be a poll ? later, and depends on who is activated prior to Sept. 1 of course (barring injury).
Btw, someone getting “Garkoed” is a personal Flap HOF classic from Flav.
Yeah, Pablo in 2010 as well hit the bricks for the playoffs . . .
I think Kinsler’s Ball Theory would make a great name for a theory regarding chance and probability in baseball; but alas, I’m not smart enough to come up with the theory. 😦
1. Nori Aoki (L) LF
2. Matt Duffy (R) 3B
3. Brandon Belt (L) 1B
4. Buster Posey (R) C
5. Brandon Crawford (L) SS
6. Marlon Byrd (R) RF
7. Gregor Blanco (L) CF
8. Ehire Adrianza (S) 2B
9. Matt Cain (R) P
Byrd has hacked his way down to the six hole…
I am so tired of seeing OOO slotted ANYWHERE in the line-up…I will take Tomlinson any day every day…
Yeah, we get to be amused by Krukow pumping up OOO. “He’s due to break out,” etc.
That article that Dirt posted was interesting, but here’s where I think the non-chemistry folks get it wrong: they always think short-term, as in one season. Like, did that team out-do their apparent talent level that season, and what does that say or not say about team chemistry? In my opinion, team chemistry is about several years, not just one year. If a team has a bad year (the Giants 2013), do they stay together as a group, or do they start throwing people under the bus. Then, if the team endures that bad year, and stays together, it can come out stronger for it the next season, as in the Giants winning it all in ’14.
I’ve said it before on the Flap, I think it all began with Matt Cain, the longest tenured Giant on the team, who was brutally “Cained” in so many games with low run support earlier in his career, but NEVER threw the team’s offense under the bus. And how about Lincecum? He lost a 1-0 game to Kershaw several years ago and put the blame on HIMSELF, with his memorable quote: “In the duel, I blinked first.” That’s just awesome stuff.
Yes, the Giants have had a lot of talent in the 3-in-5, but there’s something extra with this team that defies SABR logic. There’s a lot of mental toughness and guys who are committed to “picking each other up.” I know “picking each other up” doesn’t exist as a “thing” in SABR analysis, but I bet there’s a lot of major leaguers that would say it’s a real thing. It’s a remarkable thing that pro (and college) athletes do, preforming in front of thousands of people in stadiums and arenas, and millions of people on TV. It almost defies our imagination, that incredible fishbowl experience they perform under. The mental aspect is HUGE. Team chemistry, IMO, is something that can help with the mental aspect. It can help provide some kind of comfort level in the extremely stressful world of pro sports.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I think that’s part of the Dodgers’ problem. Kershaw basically said the other day: “We lack urgency.” He knows there’s something missing with their squad, in spite of the talent assembled. He can look across the diamond at the other teams that have it right, and he knows the Dodgers are lacking something.
Having said that, the Dodgers could win it all; there’s that much talent assembled. But they’re really struggling against good teams this season.
Totally agree
Absolutely, Zumiee…
Well, the whole chemistry thing is like the manager-as-captain thing. A good manager keeps the ship going. A bad manager can really fuck up a good thing.
Chemistry isn’t the be-all end-all, but bad chemistry can bring a team down. All we’ve heard from the Dodgers lately is they have a ton of talent with no chemistry. This has been the case for 3 years. Do they all need to go to the movies after games? Well, no, but teams that do shit like that seem to have more to play for than just themselves. The Warriors talked of doing things like that last year, while the Mark Jackson led team didn’t. Is that the sole reason? No. The Dubs improved their bench and improved their coach. But certainly being invested in the collective goal rather than the individual one goes a long way toward working to a common goal.
In other words, the teams that won with so called chemistry far outmunbers the teams that didn’t.
The Dodgers catch a break in their schedule with the hapless Reds. The Reds are pretty pathetic these days.
Jeremy’s latest wierd injury for the DL playing around with his kids and sprained his left knee😉 wink wink, always room for a fall guy when you need a replacement, and Jeremy’s the best at it..
Downtown Mike Broadway called up in relief..
So, Cain’s biggest game in 2 years.
As James would say, it’s August 28th and the Giants are still playing very meaningful games. There’s a lot to appreciate about that, and never to take for granted.
At least I thought James wrote something like that fairly recently. 🙂
Yes, it is all I ask!
I’m assuming the Affeldt to the DL is for real, and the reason is, as I just heard on radio, that he injured his patella and tore some ligament playing with his kids on the off day yesterday up in Spokane. He’s been decent lately– I doubt they would fake DL him now because chances are he might not be ready for the stretch run. So, given that, I’m officially calling Affeldt a moron. Despite all his charity stuff and god-squader that he is, and great work he did in game 7 of the WS last year, he is a moron. This is the third, THIRD time he’s had to hit the DL from an off-field injury at home. The great frozen hamburger hand injury. The FIRST knee injury from his moose of a kid jumping on him while they were horsing around. Now this SECOND knee problem caused by some kind of jacking around with his kids on a lake getting in/out of a raft. You make $6 million/year as a top flight reliever on a top MLB team, you screw up at home twice, yet you STILL jack around at home getting injured again so you can’t pitch? Once is an accident. Twice is ridiculous. THREE times is absolutely moron territory. I hope Broadway comes in and goes lights out and Affeldt is rendered superFLEWus…
Thanks for the times
That you’ve given me
The memories are all in my mind
And now that we’ve come
To the end of our rainbow
There’s something
I must say out loud
You’re once, twice
Three times a moron
Yes you’re once twice
Three times a moron
And I love you
Let’s hope Osich can step into the LH late inning role. I see tonight is Celebrity Jeopardy. “Famous Titties, Alex, for a million.” “That’s Famous Titles, Sean. And it’s one thousand.” “Suck it, Trebek, or I’ll pull out on yer mother tonight.”
lqtm…
I’ll repeat that I think Bochy is a great manager, i.e., he is for the most part a logical tactician.
I do worry that one day his Conga Line theory may be put under greater scrutiny:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=conga+line&defid=6589851
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=conga+line&defid=1561710
Arrieta is a find kinda like Jason Schmidt was.
Chemistry can be a very fleeting thing. 2010 Giants were definition of it; 2011 and FA, different story.
Uribe baled quickly for LA of all places, why I’ll never know.
Rent decided he still had another year in him, which ushered in the Tejada/font season.
Torres Huff and Burrell all hit .230 something and Cody Ross went back to being an ordinary OF, then he left.
J Sanchez was never the same either.
Lot of guys that were heroes just went south, literally or figuratively.
Chuck, great scoop.
Right now, I’d rather see Timmy than Cain and his patented, game killer gopher ball pitches. Luckily this 3 run dinger is way early, theoretically can be overcome. His contract is now Zitoesque…
The Cain train has derailed.
Schwarber’s hitting .279, which means he gets out about, what, 72 percent of the time? But apparently Giants scouts haven’t unearthed any video evidence of this.
90 mph straight as an arrow fastballs will not keep Matt Cain in the rotation. Along with 10 bombs allowed in less then 50 innings, just an awful total.
Walking the guy batting .111 was worse.
Cain has been pretty much dogmeat since he came back. This has the look of DL for Cain with some kind of ‘itis, and bring Heston and his rejuvenated arm back from the minors. Maybe Timmy can get something going, too. Cain can go sit now thru the offseason as far as I’m concerned. Kruk can spin all the golden flaxcrap he wants to about Cain and his stuff being fine and a great curve, the truth is he’s a homer-giving machine…
Adrianza back down to a robust .194.
Keereist…
Ahhhh fuuck
G’night, girls.
Cain’s throwing 100 pitches tonight. He may not get to the 5th.
Blehhh
I’d take a walk over another dinger…
Get Heston back ASAP to make the next start, there’s no way he’d be any worse than this.
See my 8:00 post, revisited.
Cain should be DLed as he walks off the field.
Keereist, get his $20 million ass outta the rotation. He hasn’t done shit now for near a season and a half, or close to about $30 million worth of futility. Put it this way, if Cain were pitching, I would not spend good money to get tix for that game…
Now Petit will pitch when the game is outta hand. WTF?…
The Jason Schmidt trade was still one of my favorite steals of
All-Time!(Schimdt&VanderWal good PH, for Armando Rios& and yes Ryan Voglesong) Not only did Schmidt dominant right from the get go, the Giants got every ounce of great baseball out of him, before the Dogpile ended up with him and he broke down right away and was never the same pitcher.
Speaking of not the same pitcher anymore, Cain is painful to watch, sure he’s getting a whiplash turning his neck so much watching his bombs leave orbit!!
If Lincecum were this bad this often, he’d be crucified here…
San dawg jr’s at the game. need some major mojo to pull this out.
Your daughter there, too?
Yup
So, that’s going on two years or so, eh?
I believe Schmidt and Cain both slimmed down noticeably and were never the same afterwards…
There’s been some discussion on the Flap this season about Bochy perhaps not managing his pitching staff quite as well as he has in the past. Not sure about that, I really don’t question Bochy about much… but with the “luxury” of still, somehow, being within spitting distance of the division lead, I do tend to hope that he’s still “auditioning” both the starters and relievers to see what he’s got, and come September 1st, it’s pedal to the metal with who he thinks will get it done. If that’s the case, then it looks like Cain is blowing his perhaps final audition. Come on, September 1st….
My daughter is dating Hanger’s son…
Thought you were gonna say Buzzsaw.
not sure which way to go with this
Be nice to see posey do something than the ovligatory DP
Pawlie, Bochy has had a much tougher row to hoe with this staff this year. Lately Bummie is the only one worth even close to 7. The pen is getting used up at an slamming rate. And they are wearing the strain.
Remember Joe Strain?
They retired his #20.
Amazing!
vividly. My buddy used to make fun of how shitty he hit while he was still on the team
Think it was more for Monte Irvin, then the Strain of watching Joe play ball..
Maybe Frank Johnson?
The Giants would likely have a couple more wins if they’d simply put Petit in their rotation at the beginning of the year and kept him there. He’s better than Huddy, Timmy, Cainer, and Vogey.
so am I…..
Those 4 have 51 of the Giants’ starts. It is a miracle that SF is over 500.
you have no idea what Petit would do in their place. None. He’s been pretty awful this year but maybe your go-to *luck* call would get Petit to something better than the 4 you listed or me……
Lol..Flav
Me too..
Should we warm up or maybe prop up Phil Nastu?
and JAMES, really, if you just attribute every single thing in baseball to luck and shit evening out over time, what could possibly interest you in the day to day fiddle de doin’s of this blog? Serious question……
Awful? Ok, whatever. He’s a mediocre righty who’s put up a mid to high 3 ERA while he’s been with SF.
I just re-read some comments and all I have to say is this: the fact that San Diggity’s son is still hanging out with Chuck’s daughter, in whatever capacity, is something that will blow my mind till my grave. The mind blowing statistics against this ever accidentally happening, especially a couple of dopey college kids who change friends/relationships every few months, and yet STILL hanging out and going to more Giants games together regularly than ANY OF US (again, in WHATEVER CAPACITY) is against any odds I can calculate……
Truth is stranger than fiction, Flav.
Oh goodie E6. 8-0.
and I am taking the liberty to make this the POTD. Because it is, I can’t even imagine weirder wilder shit continuing to happen considering everything I just said.
There better be a friggin’ large shrimp bowl at the reception. And, Russian River Chardonnary or Pinot… 😉
Well petit’s looking more like Vogie Timmy or Huddy than Bummie
Where have you gone, John Cumberland?
At least the D-Backs are losing.
Feels like we’re 20 games out…
The Giants did lose a game 17-0 to the Dodgers last year.
Just reminded me. Good game to bean Arrieta…
Yeah that’s right Loo!
Aoki should of charged the mound with a samrui sword!!
Anemic is insulting to all those folks suffering from anemia.
Wow they are playing Posey shallow.
Now Posey gets a hit.
Need a Skip Lee Pitlock sighting as well..
Shuttin’ it down for the night.
Cain has to go onto the DL, he’s flat awful.
Heston has to take his place.
This starting staff of Bum + Heston and the 3 Stooges, whoever they are, is pretty much suckage. So it’ll be a minor miracle if this team wins the division, with the help of a truly awful Doghair “chemistry” and management, assuming the Dbacks don’t make some crazy run in September. It can be done, but looks like starting rotation headwinds are strong. Panik and Pence may come back before half of Sept is done, but this starting rotation is blowing apart from age and injury like some sort of spiral star cluster. Next year, we’ve got Bum, Heston, and that’s it. We need three starters, plus Cain maybe gets some kind of stuff together to make STraining interesting. BTW, I think Bochy has totally mishandled Petit this season. The guy has no idea why or when he will come in — no wonder he has absolutely no rhythm and can’t get in a groove from appearance to appearance…
Leake has looked pretty good. Hard to remember he is on the staff.
I’m not counting on him being signed for next year. As for this year, the hammy thing looms IMO. Don’t know if you can count him as a regular, they pulled him after only 70 pitches or so his last start…
If you saw any of the post-game after Leake’s last start, Bochy said they were being cautious, and that Leake said he was gassed after 70 pitches. I would love to see them sign Leake next year.
I also read yesterday that Ryan Zimmerman will be on the Giants radar this off-season, along with Leake. So, it appears the Giants know they have a deficiency with starters and are looking to do something about it in the off-season.
Leake will be fine. Whether we keep him or not remains to be seen. He has ties with Boch so there’s that.
Can we make some late noise? Wow. Holding the back runner? Didn’t see Perez’s break
I’m at work and just checked the score .. holy fuck! What the hell happened?… we cant pitch, we can’t hit … a major WTF??? I thought we would at least keep it close but this is a fuckin blow out!!
Hey! Susac to the rescue!
Sadness every time Cain pitches…
Gotta get back on the stand but hoping we can pull one out … have we even one ‘come from behind’ this year? Seems like we are way over due …
Maxwell should not be allowed to bat again this season.
Oh well. Got some runs anyway.
Bummie and Leake and pray for sleet?
Bum and a bottle of Rum… Skippy
Bum and the Rest, like Crap in our nest…
Undertaker and a shot of Makers..
I agree, mrsportsdude, it makes me a tad sad as well to see Tim and Cain be such non-factors (or even worse, negative factors)… So, can this team really *flip the switch* and start playing well enough to win the division when we turn the calendar page for wonderful September baseball? Sure hope so.
PIA, hard to say. Giants have been so streaky this year, up and down. NL Central killing them, with 5 more to go this week. West will be blessed relief, but LA usually romps them too.
With all missing pieces of LU, just not enough to overcome pitching woes right now.
SD-Unc connection is cool, and the pic of them at game in Flap Bucket is neat. Going to games at that age always fun, regardless of outcome on the field.
Friend of mine just back from dropping her #1 son off to Purdue. He grew up in Silicon valley and wears shorts all year, so we’ll see what happens when he encounters real winter. One cool thing he did–signed for athletic ticket package so he can go to games. Mom wasn’t too enthused about paying for it (in addition to out of state fees there), but I bet that would be awesome to watch football games in Big Ten and b-ball too in packed houses vs. slew of hated rivals.
Yeah that’s cool. A buddy of mine’s daughter went to Ohio st. And he went to a couple games. Said it was absolutely nuts.
All I got to see (which was pretty cool) was Dellavadova at St Mary’s. Saw Olynick play a few times. Zags were good as well.
Stay close til Pence and Panik come back.
Thank goodness I had a training session with my dog last night. I come out a bit after 8, flip on the radio and head home. 6-0. Shit. And then I hear the HR in the top of the 6th. 7-0…fuck this. The radio is off and no way in hell I was going to fire-up the boob-tube when I got home.
Cain has got to go. I believe Heston has to be activated prior to Sept. 1 to be eligible for the post-season, so he sould be back soon. Cain’s next start would be the 30th…sounds like a damn fine time to slot Ben Hur back into the rotation.
And I agree with a few others…I would rather see Timmy out there throwing who knows what than to see Cain make another start.
Okay…wash that shit off and saddle up boys. We need Peavy and crew to get hot and get a win today, and have Bum seal a series win tomorrow. Time to pull off a little win streak.