A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball


Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on September 6, 2015


Go get ’em……

118 Responses

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  1. Carstie Clausen said, on September 6, 2015 at 11:21 am

    WHY do i so frequently post a minute or so before there’s a new thread? Special talent, i spose.

    • Lisle Ellis said, on September 6, 2015 at 11:32 am

      C.C. I responded to your last post in the old thread saying I’m 1000% in agreement with you.

  2. Carstie Clausen said, on September 6, 2015 at 11:23 am

    Not the worst possible lineup under the circumstances. We have a major advantage in the 9-hole.

  3. snarkk said, on September 6, 2015 at 11:24 am

    Giants are done, barring a miracle. Susac now gone, Sanchez gone, Posey is apparently “tired” again, etc. I’m guessing Pence won’t even come back now, if it looks like the season is lost when he’s ready, if he even is by the 20th. Susac won’t even be able to do winter ball, which he desparately needs – I don’t even know what happened to him, some wrist thing that I missed. No surprise the originally estimated two week oblique outage for Pence turns out laughable. This season just turned ugly from an injury perspective, and that’s something not controllable, other than have a better bench to weather it, like St. Louis — and have a stellar, younger rotation like they have. Yes the SF rotation has cratered, which given its age after Bum, is also not a surprise. Let’s face it, if Heston hadn’t popped up out of nowhere the first half, the squad wouldn’t even be this close. Sabean and the braintrust had to have no clue last off season that Heston would have contributed one pitch in the majors this year, let alone 11 wins. So, in the end, it turns out this IS a transition year. How many guys are gone from this 40 man after this season? A dozen? 15? More? I’m up for it. This team needs a high colonic from a rotation and bench POV. I’m up for the remainder of the season to see how guys like Tomlinson and Duffy finish, and get the experience needed to contribute even more next year. I’m almost glad Affeldt hurt himself again screwing around at home — give Osich that role next year, he’ll get some more innings in now, and be ready to go next April…

    • djloo27 said, on September 6, 2015 at 11:34 am

      I hope they shut down Bum, too once it’s mathematically hopeless…

      • Lisle Ellis said, on September 6, 2015 at 11:40 am

        Yes, good point Loo. Bum’s gotta be feeling it now, especially with the pressure of being in 1.5 man rotation this season.

      • djloo27 said, on September 6, 2015 at 12:06 pm

        He’s at 182 innings before today’s start…

    • Lisle Ellis said, on September 6, 2015 at 11:34 am

      Excellent observations Snarkk … Thank You!

  4. blade3colorado said, on September 6, 2015 at 11:25 am

    The Giants LU gives me a headache similar to the one I got a few minutes ago from watching CNN’s interview of Sarah Palin.

  5. snarkk said, on September 6, 2015 at 11:32 am

    I don’t know why Marty Lurie interviews Anne Killion on his show, as he did this morning. Normally he talks to real baseball writers who know the game, and give some insight of which we’re not normally aware. Any supposed newspaper writer that constantly uses “like” in her speech, is IMO immediately suspect. She typically has nothing whatsoever to add to the sports conversation that goes beyond some armchair or barstool conversation level. Superficial observations, and usually with a trumped up edge to it or negative slant. Any of the regulars here on the Flap offer far more baseball insight than she does, it’s not even close. And she has a HOF vote. Ridiculous…

  6. blade3colorado said, on September 6, 2015 at 11:33 am

    Speaking of miracles, Lincecum’s physician believes that Tim not only will play next season, but has an excellent chance of being the “old” Timmie . . . WTF? Yep, that’s right – with his former velocity of upper 90s. I am really praying that this guy knows what he is talking about. The evidence seems unequivocal after reading this article. In fact, Tulo and ARod owe this doctor their renaissance for what he apparently can do with a scalpel. I’m going to even change my prediction on Timmy being finished. Equally important, I now believe the Giants will sign him to a major league contract. Something I thought had zero chance of happening a few days ago.


    • snarkk said, on September 6, 2015 at 11:42 am

      Well, what does this mean blade?
      That for the last 3+ years, Timmy’s decline has been not some combined mental/arm/shoulder mysterious deal, but specifically a hip thing? Something that they knew about all along, but kept quiet? I remember early on in this decline, a lot of us here ruminated about what was wrong with him, and some of us said, me included, I wouldn’t be surprised is sometime down the road we find out this is attributable to some physical deal they’re keeping quiet — as per the Giants usual MO. The Giants repeatedly said there was NOTHING wrong with Timmy physically. I don’t know if they knew this all along, and let him go trying to compensate some other way to avoid surgery on the hip(s), but I will always be suspicious of the giants medical treatments of its players and info releases. Cain and his elbow as the most recent example. I wish the best for Timmy, so I would be happily surprised if suddenly he turns into the old Timmy next spring because of this hip surgery…

      • blade3colorado said, on September 6, 2015 at 11:49 am

        I seriously thought you could put a fork in ARod too . . . He couldn’t turn to Steroid juice; he’s 40 years old; coming off of a suspension of one year; and, perhaps most important, hip surgery and subsequent difficult recovery.

        Fast forward today, ARod has re-established himself as one of the best 3rd baseman in all of MLB. What the fuck? Similar situation with Tulo – who by the way, just went yard a few minutes ago.

        No way am I saying this is a slam dunk for Tim. He’ll have to put in the time and effort, but when has that ever been a problem for him? He’s dedicated and I hope he is able to at least, minimally come back from this injury and get a spot on a big league roster.

      • blade3colorado said, on September 6, 2015 at 11:51 am

        No opinion on the Giants medicos . . . Who knows what they knew and when they knew it? Just happy that Tim might have an answer and he found out about this physician in Aspen.

  7. djloo27 said, on September 6, 2015 at 11:58 am

    It’s kind of bizarre that it was the “washed up” Timmy that threw the 2 no-no’s. Shows how meaningless and fluky most no-hitters are. I would lean to Snarkk’s assessment up above there…

  8. Macdog said, on September 6, 2015 at 12:15 pm

    Blade, A-Rod (who hit another HR today) has played three games all season at 3B, how does this re-establish him as one of the best 3B in all of MLB?

    • blade3colorado said, on September 6, 2015 at 12:18 pm

      Good point . . . Freudian slip. Question – do you doubt he is having an excellent season? By the by, he hasn’t been paid for his fielding for years.

      • Macdog said, on September 6, 2015 at 12:30 pm

        I figured it was just a fantasy thing, so in that regard, yes, he is a top 3B. He’s having a helluva season, I’ve actually gotten a kick out of it given all the people that hate him.

  9. djloo27 said, on September 6, 2015 at 12:24 pm

    I wonder if it’s harder or easier for a pitcher to come back from this hip thing as opposed to a position player.
    I would guess that it might be…

  10. Flavor said, on September 6, 2015 at 12:39 pm

    does Posey have Chronic Fatique Syndrome or some shit? Why is he always so tired, so in need of rest. I don’t hear about other catchers being so tired. They just get a day off every 10 days or so and no one discusses how tired they are. Maybe Posey needed more frequent days off this year but I am *tired* of hearing about all the rest he needs but doesn’t get enough of……

    • Lisle Ellis said, on September 6, 2015 at 12:53 pm

      With all the talk of the Giants medico’s secrets, who can say for sure? Maybe there really is an underlying Posey medical condition that we are not hearing about. Could be something to do with his leg/ankle stuff from a couple years ago, or could be something else.

    • djloo27 said, on September 6, 2015 at 1:03 pm

      Posey in the locker room:

  11. Lisle Ellis said, on September 6, 2015 at 12:58 pm

    Something I don’t understand is why other teams have been able to seriously injure our players so frequently this year by hitting them and there as been zero retaliation. I’ve not seen much, if anything, in the media about it or heard any Giants players or staff address it. The only time I know that it has been brought up is here on the Flap or occasionally on Lurie’s show.

    • Lisle Ellis said, on September 6, 2015 at 1:00 pm

      And, to be clear … On the radio, the subject was broached by fans calling in, not by the announcers.

    • xoot said, on September 6, 2015 at 1:21 pm

      I agree, some sort of retaliation seems necessary. Pence’s problems all started with that wild ass Cubs scrub breaking his arm in ST. Aoki’s broken leg and concussion were HBPs. (Cubs again on one of those.) Crawford’s HBP knocked him out at the crucial time of the season. And Posey’s current struggles have some roots in that plunk the bums gave him on his left arm (last week?). I probably missed a few. Smack the Cubs in ST and smack the dodgers at the end of this season. And smack em hard.

      • Lisle Ellis said, on September 6, 2015 at 1:35 pm

        I’m with Ya Xoot!

        Btw, saw your post last nite (re: my photo with Albert King). To clarify, I was not playing with Albert at 17 yrs old but did have the incredible opportunity to meet and hang with him backstage – he was opening for The Doors (met them too – much less interesting to me than Mr King). You mentioned that you are a writer. I have the greatest respect for your craft. I’ve recently been revisiting Bukowski’s ‘Born Into This’. A truly remarkable work.

      • xoot said, on September 6, 2015 at 2:11 pm

        Bukowski’s a resident soul around here, Lisle, going way back. Loo can probably recite certain works from memory. Personally, I’ve always admired Bukowski’s short stories the most. Hard to say why. btw, the bulk of my writing the past 2 1/2 decades has been decently paid legal hack work. Damned solid legal hack work, however.

        Meanwhile, Posey shows some life! No reason to throw in the towel–yet.

      • Lisle Ellis said, on September 6, 2015 at 2:23 pm

        Wow .. Reciting Bukowski from heart is impressive … I can recite one excerpt from Jean Genet’s ‘A Thief’s Journal’ … I use it my solo performances (a rare occurrence these days).

      • xoot said, on September 6, 2015 at 2:42 pm

        If you haven’t read it, check out The Day We Talked about James Thurber. I think it’s a perfect comic short story, all the more hilarious because Bukowski really did revere Thurber (with reservations). Emphasis on comic, though.

      • Lisle Ellis said, on September 6, 2015 at 2:49 pm

        Thanks for the suggestion Xoot .. I will be checking James Thurber out!

  12. djloo27 said, on September 6, 2015 at 1:33 pm

    A 2-bagger for Snoozy…

  13. Lisle Ellis said, on September 6, 2015 at 1:40 pm

    Bum must have got my memo from last night … 2 run handicap for our opponents is fair I think. After all, we are still the Champs for another 26 games.

  14. Macdog said, on September 6, 2015 at 2:34 pm

    Surprised Pagan is sitting just when he got his home run stroke back.

  15. alleykat69 said, on September 6, 2015 at 2:42 pm

    Duffy=Money in the clutch& Rookie of the Year Imo..

    • xoot said, on September 6, 2015 at 2:45 pm

      Usually the league figures you out. Duffy seems to be turning that one around, game by game.

    • zumiee said, on September 6, 2015 at 2:48 pm

      Bryant will win it, though.

    • Lisle Ellis said, on September 6, 2015 at 2:50 pm

      Truer words rarely written Kat!

  16. zumiee said, on September 6, 2015 at 2:46 pm

    Snarkk, I think Susac’s current problem is connected to that earlier hand injury, sliding headfirst into thirdbase.

  17. zumiee said, on September 6, 2015 at 2:47 pm

    Regarding payback, the Giants did hit Turner on the hand with a pitch.

    • Lisle Ellis said, on September 6, 2015 at 2:50 pm

      Do you think it was intentional?

      • zumiee said, on September 6, 2015 at 2:54 pm

        Hard to say. Maybe.

  18. zumiee said, on September 6, 2015 at 2:53 pm

    Nats gain another game. Sphincters are tightening in Mets-land.

    • Macdog said, on September 6, 2015 at 2:56 pm

      Mets-Nats 3-game series at DC starting tomorrow.

      • zumiee said, on September 6, 2015 at 3:02 pm

        Should be real interesting. It’s a strange season with the 2 Wild Card spots basically wrapped up already. Everybody else has to try to win a division.

  19. Lisle Ellis said, on September 6, 2015 at 2:57 pm

    I sure wish the Giants could save up some of this offense they are manufacturing now and dole it out when needed over the next 26 … so fucking streaky, this team. I mean, today they look unstoppable: we gave the opponent a 2 run handicap and we are not just creeping back we are fucking steam rolling them.

    I’m starting to believe this streakiness is symptomatic of more than just a weak rotation exacerbated by severe and untimely injuries to key guys … There is something deeper going on with this group … I wonder what it could be?

  20. alleykat69 said, on September 6, 2015 at 2:58 pm

    On the defense of Belt, he was out of gas?
    Shit Crawdaddy’s drive was clearly gonna be over the CF head, yet Belt was walking toward second?He would of scored easily if he hustled a little..Stop making excuses that he’s sick, if he is, they shouldn’t of started him..

  21. zumiee said, on September 6, 2015 at 3:06 pm

    Bum still has a chance to win 20. That would be a cool thing. That would mean no shut-down, though.

  22. zumiee said, on September 6, 2015 at 3:07 pm

    This ballpark is nuts.

  23. Flavor said, on September 6, 2015 at 3:10 pm

    I didn’t see the Belt play, but I do know he was hooked up to an IV yesterday. Throw in the altitude, I could easily see how he ran out of gas.

    • xoot said, on September 6, 2015 at 3:17 pm

      comcast showed Belt in the dugout chugging Pedialyte before he took the field in the first inning

  24. alleykat69 said, on September 6, 2015 at 3:12 pm

    Agree Zumie,
    Bum would put Bochy in the wood chipper machine if he tried to shut-em down with a chance for 20 wins..

    • Carstie Clausen said, on September 6, 2015 at 3:23 pm

      Or as some in my genera neighborhood say “it’s a Far-go for Moor Head”. Surprised the Coen’s never worked that one into the script.

  25. Carstie Clausen said, on September 6, 2015 at 3:21 pm

    Sweat inducing bottom of the 5th for Bumgarner. Okay, who got clear down to the bottom of his fifth while watching that parade of singles and then the DP and the line-out to end it?

    Carolina Cattleman at 88 pitches now. Doubtful he goes 7 unless a clean and clear 6th vs the bottom section of the Rox lineup.

    • Lisle Ellis said, on September 6, 2015 at 3:55 pm

      I did, C.C. … draining inning .. In more ways than one, as you so aptly pointed out.

  26. Carstie Clausen said, on September 6, 2015 at 3:35 pm

    Ten baserunners, four runs and an even 100 pitches for Bum over 6 full. Kontos in the 7th?

  27. Lisle Ellis said, on September 6, 2015 at 4:01 pm

    We are definitely done this year … LA is currently the hottest team in MLB … not a hope in hell of catching them with the team(s) we are fielding. As someone pointed out earlier, fun part now is to watch how the season winds up for Duffy & Tomlinson … I’ll throw in that observing Leake should be entertaining.

  28. Lisle Ellis said, on September 6, 2015 at 4:12 pm

    Tell me the truth guys. Am I simply a bad person, a shallow individual, for coveting a real slugger? You can be completely honest.

    I would so dearly love to have an Arenado, a Car-Go, Cruz, Harper or some such. Remember when Aurilla hit 36 protecting Bonds way back when? That was soooo sweet.

    Or is it impossible because of our home park? Posey will never be that guy and it certainly won’t be Belt … and probably not Craw either.

    Am I being an impetuous shit head?

    • Flavor said, on September 6, 2015 at 4:32 pm

      Aurilia was on a boatload of steroids back then and Arenado and Car-Go wouldn’t do what they do outside of Coors Field. Think *Dante Bichette*. Harper is once-a-gen.
      I would like us to develop an outfielder with power but then if that’s the karmic price we pay for 3 in 5 then I willingly accept that we will never develop a power hitting outfielder……..

  29. alleykat69 said, on September 6, 2015 at 4:40 pm

    You are not a crazed individual Lisle.
    I and I’m sure other Flappers have been pushing for a STUD Player with lighthouse power for many years now, but to my chagrin the Giants / management will never seem to go in that direction or maybe the player for some stupid reason doesn’t want to play for a winner or the best looking ballpark in baseball, cause their stats will go down, sure never affected Barry Bonds or Jeff Kent, lesser degree Aurilla. I’m all in getting Cespedes, for are OF , but will the Giants? And yeah we need pitching again too, that will be their excuse for not adding a power hitter..

  30. willedav said, on September 6, 2015 at 4:44 pm

    LE, the 2010 team hit a bunch of HRs from likes of Huff Uribe Burrell, and of course clutch ones from Uribe Ross and Rent. It is doable at ATT. SF scored plenty of runs when healthy and a couple conga line guys like Duffy and Panik (and even Aoki) hit more bombs than I thought possible.

    Again part of SF problem is continued suckitude of division…LA has been smoking the Pads, AZ comes up short vs. Cubs yada yada. Unless a big streak suddenly happens with these 2 Ws vs. Sherps followed by many more next couple weeks, tough to gain ground on those in front of them.

    • Lisle Ellis said, on September 6, 2015 at 5:02 pm

      Flav, as usual, what you say makes a ‘boatload’ of sense. However, to demonstrate my shallowness, I will confess that I don’t care who took what, how much, or when. I miss Bonds terribly. I loved watch him come to the plate as much as I love listening to Coltrane. Speaking of which, I know of a lot of musicians taking boatloads of drugs (Trane wasn’t one of them) to enhance their musical abilities. I am on my knees daily thanking the unseen forces in the universe for that.

      • Lisle Ellis said, on September 6, 2015 at 5:10 pm

        Kat, I’m one who thinks powerful pitching is more important than hitting. Having said that, I still want a power hitter … Cespedes would be great. I’m a greedy fuck … I want both.

        I suppose the question remains … we are one of the wealthiest teams, why will we not procure the tools we need? Is it because we got lucky with some dumpster diving acquisitions like Cody & Scutaro and management is convinced we don’t need to spend $ to build a championship team?

      • zumiee said, on September 6, 2015 at 5:26 pm

        It’s all relative. At $180 million, the Giants have one of the highest payrolls in baseball. It doesn’t look as big because the Dodgers are spending about $300 million this year. But the Dodgers’ total will likely be heading downward in the future. They are finishing off some bad contracts in the next few years, and they will probably be heading back toward $200 million, which is still a lot, but not the wild amount of this year. They are trying to commit to young players in the future, according to their new front office.

    • Lisle Ellis said, on September 6, 2015 at 5:28 pm

      Willedav … You are so right man, HRs are doable @ ATT!

      I like the conga line; small ball is great when it works and it can be exciting and entertaining. Yet, it only works with .300, or in that vicinity, hitters that are bunched up somewhere in the order. I can’t see it working so well with .250-.270 streaky type hitters like Belt, Craw, Pagan (I’m not sure where Pence is in this – I think he is more of the streaky type).

      Yes, I agree about gaining ground … I cannot see it happening. If LA was struggling a bit …well, maybe we’d have an outside chance … but as I noted earlier today, they are the hottest team in MLB now, and unlike the Giants, they are not a streaky team … even with all their issues they have maintained a steady pace. They’re not in the realm of the phenomenal steadiness of the Cards but much, much more consistent than the Giants have been.

  31. snarkk said, on September 6, 2015 at 5:07 pm

    If I were putting an OF together for the Giants, I would grab a power RH bat at either of the corner field positions, then get two speedburner LHBs for the other two positions, but not punch / judy guys, actually two guys with speed and gap power to produce doubles and triples. Pence is the RH power bat, but Blanco and Pagan are not good enough gap hitters. IMO it makes no sense to have anybody that’s a LH power bat at ATT. Craw is an outlier because of his position. Belt loses half a dozen to 10 or more HRs a year at ATT due to the Death Valley in right. Heck, Sarge in LF, Maddox in CF, and Pence in RF would be a helluva combo at ATT, because of the RH bats with gap and over fence power to left and left center. I would easily take that over even a Pence + two lefty OF gap speed guys. Anyway, nice win today. Looks like too little, too late unfortunately…

  32. snarkk said, on September 6, 2015 at 5:12 pm

    Didn’t see much of today’s tilt. But, I liked it seeing Bum throwing up and inside to Arenado to get his ass off the plate, and not sitting on something for another jack. I don’t know if he got one or not, but it’s about time Giants pitchers start getting a little tough inside…

  33. zumiee said, on September 6, 2015 at 5:32 pm

    When K&K go on about balls that Bonds hit into the stratosphere at the Rockies ballpark, I just wonder what is really going on inside their heads. Clearly, they must know that Bonds was on steroids. Right? They have to know that. So, this going on and on about how strong Bonds was is just kind of lame. I don’t think the Giants fans are comfortable listening to it. I wish K&K would stop it.
    Not totally ignore Bonds’ accomplishments, but start, ever so slightly, to be honest about what happened.

    • snarkk said, on September 6, 2015 at 5:39 pm

      The closest I ever hear Kruk talk about Bonds in a ‘roid context is when he circles around the issue by focusing on how Bonds has been made a scapegoat for the era. He’s good at tap dancing around Bonds actually being a ‘roider, but the context he speaks in obviously treats that as an unspoken given. Kruk is good at it. If Krukow has ever said Bonds was a user, it would be news to me. Bonds is around the team fairly often, thus the chance to be around Kruk, so I would not expect Kruk to say anything out of school about PEDs and Bonds…

  34. snarkk said, on September 6, 2015 at 5:33 pm

    Re: BF’s earlier post on Posey being “tired”. I’ve guessed for a long time that ankle gives him problems, and when it starts barking louder he has to take a day off, or play first. Sometimes it coincides with Belt vs. a tough LH starter, sometimes it doesn’t. If that’s the case, they would never talk publicly about it, same as Timmy’s hip. If you think I’m going conspiracy theory, you’re right, because there is a lot of past evidence of hiding stuff. It just doesn’t add up that Posey at his age takes so much time off, or comes out of games seemingly too early…

  35. zumiee said, on September 6, 2015 at 5:37 pm

    I was pushing real hard for the Giants to sign Yasmany Tomas this past off-season….
    a check of his stats for the D-Backs shows .283/8/43. Meh.
    And that’s playing his homegames at that launching pad in Arizona.

    • zumiee said, on September 6, 2015 at 5:38 pm

      Subtract some ‘genius points’ from LaRussa. 🙂

  36. zumiee said, on September 6, 2015 at 5:44 pm

    These are the opening day payrolls of 2015. Some of the teams, including the Giants and Dodgers, have gone up since then. Some teams have gone down.

    Team 2015 Payroll
    1. Los Angeles Dodgers $272,789,040
    2. New York Yankees $219,282,196
    3. Boston Red Sox $187,407,202
    4. Detroit Tigers $173,813,750
    5. San Francisco Giants $172,672,111
    6. Washington Nationals $164,920,505
    7. Los Angeles Angels $150,933,083
    8. Texas Rangers $142,140,873
    9. Philadelphia Phillies $135,827,500
    10. Toronto Blue Jays $122,506,600
    11. St. Louis Cardinals $120,869,458
    12. Seattle Mariners $119,798,060
    13. Chicago Cubs $119,006,885
    14. Cincinnati Reds $117,197,072
    15. Chicago White Sox $115,238,678
    16. Kansas City Royals $113,618,650
    17. Baltimore Orioles $110,146,097
    18. Minnesota Twins $108,945,000
    19. Milwaukee Brewers $105,002,536
    20. Colorado Rockies $102,006,130
    21. New York Mets $101,409,244
    22. San Diego Padres $100,675,896
    23. Atlanta Braves $97,578,565
    24. Arizona Diamondbacks $91,518,833
    25. Pittsburgh Pirates $88,278,500
    26. Cleveland Indians $86,091,175
    27. Oakland A’s $86,086,667
    28. Tampa Bay Rays $76,061,707
    29. Houston Astros $70,910,100
    30. Miami Marlins $68,479,000

    • zumiee said, on September 6, 2015 at 5:46 pm

      I’m guessing the Giants passed the Tigers during the season, and are #4 now.

      • snarkk said, on September 6, 2015 at 5:49 pm

        Timmy 18M + Huddy 12M + Cain 20M = just under $50 million, or about 30% of that 2015 total SF payroll largely wasted…

      • zumiee said, on September 6, 2015 at 5:55 pm

        Plus the $6 million for Scutaro and the $5 million for McDP.

    • xoot said, on September 6, 2015 at 6:12 pm

      The Giants went well over the $189M luxury tax threshold with the mid-season signings. The first year tax isn’t huge, however, and they should be able to stay under it next year, even with new FAs.

  37. Flavor said, on September 6, 2015 at 5:54 pm

    I don’t have the fever that others have about signing big free agent guys. It rarely works out. The way to build your team is through sound drafts, keen international signings and a shrewd pick up or two at the deadline (and that circles back to *sound drafts*). Invest heavily in international scouting. Huge free agent signings are designed to excite a fanbase in the off season that just finished off another year of losing. It’s like a crack pipe for fans.

    • zumiee said, on September 6, 2015 at 5:56 pm

      See “Red Sox, Boston.”

      • Flavor said, on September 6, 2015 at 5:57 pm

        or the Angels. Dodgers. Detroit. Pretty much all the teams who don’t win the world series but who go both feet in on off season signings. Fan base blows a collective load on their faces and then have nothing at the end of the season except looking forward to the next big Winter signing.

      • djloo27 said, on September 6, 2015 at 6:13 pm

        The Giants spend big money on locking up their own guys – is it really any different?

    • Flavor said, on September 6, 2015 at 7:00 pm

      it is different. They’ve won 3 in 5, that’s as different as it gets. Success can’t be argued with.

  38. willedav said, on September 6, 2015 at 6:30 pm

    One thing about Giants payroll, there is also the other side of the ledger, as in 3 WS titles in 5 years.
    That is one Johnson load of extra revenue just in ticket sales alone for all the playoff games hosted, not to mention the ancillary stuff like concessions, gear yada yada.

    I think Flav has good point. The IF provide tremendous value for what they make and I’d agree bringing in a big FA guy to fill a spot is very risky. Think about the guys we were talking about last year (including of course the offer to Sandoval) that actually panned out, and there’s dang few. would you be happy paying J Lester $130 more mil for another 5 yrs?

    But unless you want to watch more of Aoki types, Giants are going to have to do something about OF. It’s just harder these days with diminishing offensive stats to find good value.

  39. Lisle Ellis said, on September 6, 2015 at 6:53 pm

    Another ignorant question for you veterans …

    McDP made $5mil; Duff prolly league min $500K. TEN TIMES difference! I’m no baseball genius but even I could see quite early on ( going back to last year) that Duff was the better player (mabey10X better) than McDP. Was it only $ that prevented Boch from making a move sooner than he did at 3rd base or was the decision not his, was it managements?

    • zumiee said, on September 6, 2015 at 6:56 pm

      Bochy likes veterans. But he’s actually better about getting young guys in there than he used to be.

      • Lisle Ellis said, on September 6, 2015 at 7:32 pm

        Thanks Zum … I’m guessing same goes for the Tomlinson /000 situation … I think we all could see that the kid could hit from the get go … He just looks fantastical & weird & wonderful like a ‘special’ hitter but Boch kept sticking 000 in over him until he finally capitulated … I mean, McDP prolly cost us 3 games, 000 at least 2 … If we had those 5 games back now … well … hmm .. And when I say 5, I’m probably on the low end.

        I hate it when early in the season everyone says “we got a lot of baseball to play” … every fucking game counts … What about those games Affeldt fucked off & Casillia .. Of course, there are gonna be some fuck ups but this year there seemed to be some very suspect loses … and they have lead to us being to far behind here at the end.

    • snarkk said, on September 6, 2015 at 7:30 pm

      It took Sabean almost 4 years on a 5 year deal to admit that the Gamer should be DFA’d. After 2, it was obvious to the casual fan. It took a near fan insurrection and insulting his own teammates for Benitez to finally get traded outta town by Sabean. Contracts matter…

      • Flavor said, on September 6, 2015 at 7:53 pm

        The Gamer contract, just like the Zito contract, was a learning experience for Sabean and also Bochy on how to handle these duds in-season. I feel like they’re both pretty good NOW when it comes to a) not overpaying for free agents and b) what to do when a vet with a big contract starts sucking. Pagan is the new challenge. I can’t believe he will be in CF next season. He might not even be on the team although I think that’s unlikely. If he’s not in LF next year (or on the bench as a 4th) I’ll eat my hat……

  40. zumiee said, on September 6, 2015 at 7:08 pm

    Bryant hit a 495 foot HR today. The Cubs are having a magical season, BUT it ain’t easy winning the ring. 29 teams end up disappointed every season, in that regard.

    • Flavor said, on September 6, 2015 at 7:11 pm

      and that makes the 3 in 5 all the more remarkable. He could hit 20 700 foot home runs. And they will still likely have nothing at the end of the year. And even if they do? That’s one. 1.

      • zumiee said, on September 6, 2015 at 7:12 pm

        Great post. I posted below before seeing this.

      • snarkk said, on September 6, 2015 at 8:54 pm

        The 2010 Championship for me was like after 40 years of blue balls, Farah Fawcett came down live off of her famous ’70s poster that I dreamed at as a teenager and spent an entire evening at my beck and call at a beach condo in Kauai as warm trade winds passed over us like waves on the beach. After that, I figured I was done, that was it. How much better could it be? I can die happy now. But no. 2012 showed up like Michelle Pfeiffer in a white chiffon dress on a warm fall evening, and offered a bottle of ’61 Cheval Blanc and herself up to me for the rest of the night. I figured OK, that’s cool, I’m done, I’m done, that’s enough. But, no. 2014 showed up with yet another astonishment — as if Marissa Tomei and Halle Berry showed up together wearing Giants unis and proceeded to absolutely double play me for an entire night until I cried out for mercy that I couldn’t take any more. So, 2015, I can handle some rest. 2016, I’ll be ready…

  41. zumiee said, on September 6, 2015 at 7:11 pm

    The 3 in 5 is so awesomely amazing, it’s basically impossible to fully appreciate it yet.

  42. Flavor said, on September 6, 2015 at 8:21 pm

    Just read through Curt Shilling’s twitter feed. This embarrassing suspension is just going to open doors for him, at least on the crazy right wing side. His twitter feed is blowing up with support for him. It’s the same thing with Trump. There are so many idiots out there who hear stupid ass concrete basic things and run with them the wrong way. Trump: “Build a wall!” Idiot Trump supporter: “Yeah! build a wall to keep them out!”. I mean, this is something you’d sell to a 3rd grader. Logistics and reality be damned. And yet, a decent percentage of our country is buying into this bullshit.
    Here’s the bottom line with Trump: America likes winners. They want to be told they can be winners too. Trump is a winner and he tells everyone else that America can be a winner again. Everyone in America can be a winner again. That’s all his sad sack platform amounts to.
    Sorry, I know I started off on a Shilling rant but I’m consumed right now with the fact that we have a country full of idiots who *want to make America great again* by following a dangerous man. Donald Trump is not the problem. It’s his following that’s the problem. And in a wild, round about way, I just brought this post back to the Shilling thing. They are both idiots but neither should be ignored……

    • snarkk said, on September 6, 2015 at 9:15 pm

      I don’t wanna sound dramatic, but what the hell is going on in this country? Are we in some kind of 21st century redux of bleeding Kansas and the pre-civil war period?
      Some twit of a county clerk (with a train wreck marital history — married 4 times and gave birth to twins 5 months after she divorced the husband who was NOT the father) says god tells her to deny giving marriage licenses to people the Supreme Court says she has to, and presidential candidates fall over themselves saying she’s a heroine, that the Supreme Court order was right to be disobeyed because of “natural law”. The same thing other morons were saying 50 years ago when a white guy and black girl showed up to get a marriage license in Virginia, and the clerk denied the license because that would be “against god”. If I decide stopping at red lights is “against” what my god tells me, does that mean I’m cool running every red light from SF to LA? The Supreme Court said in the Hobby Lobby case that a corporation has a right to religious expression under the first amendment. A corporation. Really? As Slim Pickens said in Dr. Strangelove, “What in the wide world of sports is going on here?”…

      • xoot said, on September 6, 2015 at 9:27 pm

        The County Clerk in KY is an elected official, so she has to be impeached to get fired. Otherwise, she would’ve been sacked by now for not doing her job. She wasn’t tossed into jail for standing up for her religious belief, she was tossed into jail for using her governmental position to impose her religious belief on others. I know some lawyers in KY. Smart, progressive people. They’re amused by it all, knowing how it will turn out in the end. We Californians didn’t have the same sense of security when the voters here passed Prop. 8. Bigots are everywhere.

      • snarkk said, on September 6, 2015 at 9:40 pm

        Baseball angle.
        The federal district judge who tossed this twit clerk into jail for contempt is the Hon. David Bunning, son of Jim Bunning the HOFer Philly pitcher and former US senator and conservative aho…

    • xoot said, on September 6, 2015 at 9:16 pm

      Trump and Palin are rank opportunists. He’s made a lot more because he started out with a lot more. That’s not winning, that’s exploiting. Trump does not care about the country, the people in it, or the future of either. He cares about himself. The idiots rallying to his bullshit are lost, frustrated souls who wouldn’t know Putin from Cameron, much less global warming from ISIS. At this moment, they’re probably terrified that the Syrian and Erytrean refugees are headed here, too. I enjoyed this, this morning: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/09/07/the-populists

      • snarkk said, on September 6, 2015 at 9:37 pm

        Interesting article on the history side. Although I don’t see how Trump as the son of a multi-millionaire and maniac mogul himself can be considered a “populist” along the better use of the word with Bernie Sanders. Time has passed where it amazes me that poor to middle class whites in the south in particular keep getting played by these Republicans who pander to their racist, anti-science, and misognynistic belief system, then when elected, consistently screw them in favor of their billionaire and corporatist paymasters…

      • Flavor said, on September 6, 2015 at 9:40 pm

        thanks for sharing that.

      • Flavor said, on September 6, 2015 at 9:45 pm

        exactly. And lost frustrated souls can do a lot of damage if rabble roused to the point of action.

      • zumiee said, on September 6, 2015 at 9:48 pm

        Palin today, in an interview, said: “Everyone living in this country should speak American.”
        It would be great if the news media would just ignore her.

      • snarkk said, on September 6, 2015 at 10:01 pm

        Speaking of train wreck families. Palin is married to a secessionist. Her daughter is pregnant with another, second kid without benefit of marriage. She QUIT being a governor in mid-term so she could escape legal proceedings. At least she can say she got banged by Glen Rice in a one night stand…

      • xoot said, on September 6, 2015 at 10:03 pm

        Few weeks ago, I listened to a young guy rave on about Bernie for a while, and then I agreed, I think Bernie’s terrific. Then I told the young guy that I especially admire the way Bernie has brought socialism back into the US political debate, and the young guy’s jaw dropped, in horror. “He’s a socialist?” Bernie’s populist appeal is interesting to behold. But he says important things no other candidate will say, but unlike Trump he says them because they truly matter. imo.

  43. Flavor said, on September 6, 2015 at 9:42 pm

    Snarkk–to me, it goes back to what I said earlier. “You want America to be great again. I can make America great again. And by doing so, you will be great too.” It’s the simplest platform anyone could sell. And yet, so many are buying. And that is the weirdo scary part of all of this…..

    • djloo27 said, on September 6, 2015 at 9:47 pm

      Simpler than “A chicken in every pot”?

      • snarkk said, on September 6, 2015 at 9:51 pm

        My father was an FDR dem, and cursed the “do nothing” Herbert Hoover until the day he died. Like millions of Americans, when the Crash hit, one day my father as a young man had money in the bank, then a few days later, it was all gone…

    • snarkk said, on September 6, 2015 at 9:49 pm

      In our recent past, this all began with Reagan IMO — the “city on the hill” analogy, and that all associated with gov’t is bad. The polarization of politics followed to the state we’re in today — when an entire political party lauds idiocy, racism and anti-intellectualism as proof of patriotism…

      • zumiee said, on September 6, 2015 at 9:59 pm

        Thomas Frank’s great book “What’s The Matter With Kansas?” goes into that pretty deeply. People who vote against their own economic well-being.

  44. djloo27 said, on September 6, 2015 at 9:45 pm

    Tomorrow’s thread: What the fuck are you guys talking about?

    • Flavor said, on September 6, 2015 at 9:48 pm

      see, you think I won’t title the thread that….hmmmm, Loo, you know me too well. Reverse psychology. I’ll fall asleep tonight dreaming up tomorrow’s “What the Fuck are You Guys Talking About?” thread…..That’s my teaser for tomorrow. I need to come up with a thread titled that and still have it relate to baseball. let’s see who shows up to read it. Baha

  45. zumiee said, on September 6, 2015 at 10:03 pm

    An article at the Baseball Hall of Fame website, about the history of Giants’ World Series rings. Some great photos of the Giants rings.

  46. snarkk said, on September 6, 2015 at 10:37 pm

    These “red states” whose politicians yell about how the poor are stealing the country blind — they are the states sucking the most at the federal teat. The top 10 mooching states, i.e., the ones that have the highest amount of net inflow of federal tax dollars that exceed the federal taxes they pay into the treasury — are all red states except arguably Maine (#40 – #50 on the linked list):

    • zumiee said, on September 6, 2015 at 10:47 pm

      They also have the highest rates of illiteracy, poverty, obesity, and porn-usage.

      • xoot said, on September 6, 2015 at 11:17 pm

        but the central valley in California is in there too, isn’t it?

      • zumiee said, on September 7, 2015 at 12:17 am

        The Central Valley is about evenly split, red and blue.

  47. snarkk said, on September 6, 2015 at 11:06 pm

    BTW, at least last year when Cal visited Northwestern, Cal came away with a road win for the first game of the year. The team down on the Farm on Saturday past — must have missed the memo that you need to bring it on the road if you want to win. 😉 Cal will have its tests on the road this year, but for now, Cal drubbed that great powerhouse Grambling 73-14, in an embarrassing exhibition of pre-seaon overmatched football scheduling. 60,000+ fans at Berkeley, though, for the opener with a sure blowout predicted. That’s pretty darn good…

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