THE San Francisco Giants Blog

More Bad Umpiring

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on October 20, 2015

No football, two huge baseball games today. Let’s see if the umps can restrain themselves from tossing anyone. Seriously, that was a joke that Tulo got tossed yesterday. I want to know who the umps have to answer to for absurd moves like the one Heirshbeck (or whatever his name is) made yesterday. Can they just do whatever they want? What if he ran across the street and spit on Tulo? Any repercussions for that?

It is so beyond time for robot umpires. Just for balls and strikes. Leave the ups on the field to make all the field calls. It would speed up the game too, since I can’t see a player trying to argue with something that isn’t even there. Actually, that would be kind of a hoot to watch. Fight Club 2. I’d watch that.


58 Responses

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  1. willedav said, on October 20, 2015 at 7:35 am

    I’m with xoot on this one—absolute no on robot umps. Sure there are bad ones out there and they need to be rooted out. But that has to come from the league and the ump supe. Send the directive to call the zone as it is mandated in the rules and get after those that don’t follow them.
    It isn’t an ump problem, it’s admin. They’ve allowed the doofus umps to get away with it for too long and that has to change. But bots calling balls and strikes and outs on bases? Do any machines function perfectly at all times, forever? No way.

    There is a human element to officiating all sports, same as there is in playing it and in the course of a game players and coaches have to adjust. It’s part of the game and no one is going to be right all the time. As for the discipline moves of throwing guys out, again that stuff is handled by ump and league supes. If an ump acts wrong, like in the Bum staredown or yesterday, then make sure this type of behavior isn’t tolerated.

    • Flavor said, on October 20, 2015 at 7:57 am

      I agree with this in premise but the problem is that “this type of behavior” is COMPLETELY tolerated. That’s the whole point. Since that will never change, I am 100% supportive on robot umpires on balls and strikes. NOT on the base paths. Leave the humans out there for all those calls (WITH replay as an option, of course)…..

      • snarkk said, on October 20, 2015 at 8:36 am

        Absolutely agree with this. This BS has been going on a long time, as if we pay attention or care about the psyche of these umps. Look at these guys. Lots of ’em are fat, out of shape, older dudes who get paid a ton to do what anybody could do with a month of training. I really believe that. How often are these guys wrong on calls, out of position? A lot. Anybody with a bit of training, athletic skills, and glasses could be just as wrong as many times they are. Out/safe — whatever — the replay now will bail you out, except for balls and strike calls. You can be inept and replay saves the day, so why not go all in and do away with these guys on the field that get their underwear twisted when a player confronts their incompetency. Put a game ump in the booth manning the TV monitor and a replay — he makes the field calls and Robo ump makes the balls/strikes call. A second ump is with the game ump in the booth just in case the game ump chokes on his chicken salad sandy while viewing a bang bang at first. I could live with a baseball game with no umps on the field. A season without umps, and nobody would miss ’em. It’s always been said that the best umpires are the ones you don’t notice…

      • snarkk said, on October 20, 2015 at 8:49 am

        Think of the rationale for replay review. It’s because we don’t trust the umps to be competent. Being human, they can’t get all the calls right, meaning, they can’t get every CLOSE call right. The routine stuff — anybody can get that right — like a runner is out by a half step. So, if only a handful of calls per game are close, the umps are out there mostly for show. If we agree that they are there mostly for show and tradition, well fine, then keep them. They aren’t out there because they are needed to get the calls right — because the installation of replay in the game destroys that argument…

    • xoot said, on October 20, 2015 at 8:50 am

      I’m still adamantly against robot umps at the plate, but I’m just as pissed off as everyone else about ump in chief abuses like last night’s. mlb needs to knock those arrogant pricks down a few notches. There’s an obvious reason why you don’t see vendors offering ump hats for sale at the ballpark. When they act like they think they’re supreme court justices it should be time for some off time–without pay.

      Of course, that’ll open a whole new can of worms. Krukow’s intro would sound like this: He’s a low ball umpire but what you get in the first inning is usually what you’ll see in the 9th. He’s also a bit of a hot head. He received two ten game suspensions last season, and mlb has issued what they call a the final warning, meaning one more ejection mistake and he’ll be suspended for a full season. So it will be interesting to see how Peavy and Puig communicate with him tonight.

      • snarkk said, on October 20, 2015 at 8:55 am

        That would be awesome (except maybe for BF) — Kruk with his pre-game prick-meter analysis on the umps…

    • gianthead said, on October 20, 2015 at 10:05 am

      It is a fair acompli…the auto balls and strikes are coming…..

      • gianthead said, on October 20, 2015 at 10:06 am

        Dam you spell check fait acompli

    • Carstie Clausen said, on October 20, 2015 at 10:24 am

      Good points all the way. It should be simple to remove bad umps who do not follow the rule-book.

  2. Bozo said, on October 20, 2015 at 8:26 am

    Who would sweep the plate?

    Could the cams be set up to call high strikes in AL parks and wide strikes in NL ones? You know, to keep the human element in it.

    If there isn’t an ump behind Home, could we at least have a Gatorade jug back there so a batter could go off on it from time to time? You know, so the roiders don’t have to go all the way back to the dugout.

    • snarkk said, on October 20, 2015 at 9:02 am

      The ball boys could sweep the plate. Hell, Larry Baer could get fans to pay a grand a game to do that = “sweep dudes”. The only thing umps might be missed doing is keeping players from “brawling”. But, the security guys could be asked to do that. Nobody gets hurt in those fake fights anyway, and you ban the Pen guys from coming on the field, with threat of suspension without pay. Krukow always says that the players police their own…

      • Bozo said, on October 20, 2015 at 10:39 am

        Would Baer only allow Charter Members to be sweep dudes or would he allow anyone with $1,000 to do it? Would they have to join the SEIU?

        In Toronto would the sweep dudes be called sweepers and told to Hurry Hard like in Curling?

        Would plumbers be allowed to be the sweep dudes/sweepers? Or would the chance of plumbers crack in HDTV exclude them?

      • xoot said, on October 20, 2015 at 11:36 am

        good stuff! I’ll be in on that plate dude role, if it’s not too costly. but don’t forget the last time mlb went all in on new technology–profusion of horrible domes and astroturf fields. First dodger/Giants game I saw at Candlestick in 78 was on threadbare carpet. Things have improved immensely. Tampa’s the only horrible dome left. Rogers field is pretty bad, though. Hey, now that I think of it — maybe the lack of wind and the acute acoustics on the plastic field contributed to Hirschbeck’s blow up last night. At China Basin he wouldn’t’ve heard a word . . . . go natural.

  3. willedav said, on October 20, 2015 at 8:35 am

    I didn’t watch game and have no idea of context. Were both teams pissed all night? Was one getting bigger zone than the other?
    But..25 yrs of coaching b-ball I’ve had many refs tell me in no uncertain terms they aren’t listening to any more of my argument or questions about calls/lack of same and I’m forced to stfu and sit down or get T’d up. Sure, I think there is some validity to the point of not getting this call back but maybe I get the next one, but regardless there comes a point where line in the sand is drawn.

    Tulo in this case wouldn’t let it go, chose to keep running his mouth and venting while he is on the field. Hirsh had heard enough and ran him. Seems to me they are both wrong, but if I’m Tulo’s mgr I’m disappointed he put himself and his team in that situation.
    The AB is over, you’re gonna get plenty more at least next 2 games and with the same crew. Get your head into present moment, play SS and move on.

    • snarkk said, on October 20, 2015 at 8:42 am

      I agree with you on some of that, but the vid shows the ump was spoiling for an ejection, as Tulo and other players went on the field. The ump was staring him down out there near SS 90 feet away, just waiting for something to give him a reason to thumb Tulo. A long distance Joe West/Madbum deal. Most of the fans were probably not even noticing it, so the “show me up” meter was way on the low end. It was just one ump’s ego that drove this after it was already over. Why? He still gets to call the balls / strikes. What if the Royals had tied it up, and they go extras? Because of an ump’s ego, one team is down their starting SS in an ALCS game? I call BS on that…

      • willedav said, on October 20, 2015 at 10:12 am

        all I’m saying is ump isn’t the only one here with an ego. If tulo can see what you saw then he has to walk away from it keep his head down and just play ball.
        As a coach, you want your players focused on what they are doing out there, not the officials.

  4. pawliekokonuts said, on October 20, 2015 at 9:03 am

    I have no problem with robo umps for balls, strikes. Maybe have some young dude or dudette standing nearby with iPad in hand. Speaking of dudettes, there is NO reason why there can’t be female umps. Why not? Now speculate on this: how would the “flavor” of the game change, esp. with tossing players? And imagine the first time the c-word got thrown out there. Tossed!

  5. xoot said, on October 20, 2015 at 9:03 am

    High sun, wind, cleat divots on the field, certain amount of rain–conditions vary, and small things change the way the game goes. Same with the human element for umps. The issue is how to contain it within reasonable limits. Heavy rain? Bring on the tarp and go home. Hirschbeck’s ego carries him over the line? Send him home after the series and let him consider the crime/punishment balance. The human element includes ego, but the job requires discipline. So I’m all for correcting umps and keeping their work within ethical limits; I believe, however, that the umpire in chief behind the plate plays a unique role in the game, and it’s an important one. Good judgment is required. Being involved in every single event in the game–especially wind ups and pitches–is necessary to do the job right, imo. Maybe it just boils down to this: I would rather hear four talented well-trained people playing drums, bass, piano and sax together than four state-of-the-art computers.

  6. chipower9 said, on October 20, 2015 at 9:18 am

    I did not see the play live, but have watched some video. Without seeing the whole thing, I would say that they both owned part of this. I have never liked Tulo, so fuck him anyway. And Hirshdick or whatever the fuck his name is is a lame-ass ump, too. Fuck both of them.

    But to the point of umps calling balls and strikes..leave the umps back there to make all of the other required calls (safe/out on a play at the plate, balks, swing/no-swing, etc.), but let the robots call the balls and strikes. I was especially sold when Flavor shared the details of how the system works (multiple cameras, etc. and the size of the strike zone is compensated for the height of the player, etc.).

    I get so fucking tired of the inconsistent strike zone. Not a fucking one of the current umps calls balls and strikes based on how the strike zone is defined in the rule book. And then you have the AL and NL flavor of the zone, and even then, no conistency from umpire to umpire. Fuck them…let the machine call the balls and strikes and get the shit right every fucking time.

    I would be good with instead of the machines, management put the word out that the zone MUST be called as written in the rule book, and that each game gets reviewed. Umps who do a shitty job get a game or two suspension, without pay, etc. But this will NEVER happen, so just bring in the robots to call balls and strikes already.

    Cueto is NOT a top echelon pitcher…no way in hell I would ever throw big money at him.

  7. gianthead said, on October 20, 2015 at 10:01 am

    I just saw the deal on the Cuban outfielder. Did we screwed on that?

  8. djloo27 said, on October 20, 2015 at 10:04 am

    Happy 78th, Juan Marichal!

    And who the hell is that supposed to be on his plaque?

    • pawliekokonuts said, on October 20, 2015 at 10:15 am

      Loo, you are the man! Thanks for that reminder! He really does not look that old, these days. Then again, my mom, who turned 99 last Friday, says, “What am I supposed to look like?” (She insists she now wants us to say she is 89.)

    • pawliekokonuts said, on October 20, 2015 at 10:17 am

      You’re right. The plaque image is a cross between Mays, McCovey, and — I don’t know — Walter Fecking Matthau. I love the Steve Blass quote on the bottom of the page, and the “bronzed Nureyev” line by Bellamy.

    • willedav said, on October 20, 2015 at 11:51 am

      wow thanks way cool.
      In that first short vid there are couple clips of him throwing sidearm.
      Such an inventive guy with many pitches from different angles with his impeccable control
      244 complete games, 52 shutouts…no one will get within light years of that.

  9. Flavor said, on October 20, 2015 at 11:38 am

    Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 15m15 minutes ago
    Hirschbeck on Tulo ejection: “He protested a little bit after the called third strike. I warned him twice then. The inning ended, and out at shortstop he was still yelling at me. I put my hand up and warned him two more times, said, ‘enough, that’s it.‘ He had several warnings. I tried to keep him in the game.” Hirschbeck said Tulo did not curse at him. Tulo said he only said, “That’s not a strike.”

    The thing that I noticed first: “he protested a little bit.” If these fucking guys can’t ignore a player protesting “a little bit” they have no business doing that type of work.

    • ewisco said, on October 20, 2015 at 11:54 am

      still, shut the f up and go back to your position. you really think you’re going to win with the ump? thankfully for him it’s not a red-card and you’re out the next game too. just stupid really. I agree that far too many umps seem to be looking for trouble but at some point you have to shut up and play.

    • snarkk said, on October 20, 2015 at 1:50 pm

      If the ump had tried to keep him in the game, he would have turned his back on Tulo and walked to behind the plate, instead of staring at Tulo as Tulo walked out to SS. The ump was looking for more trouble , and Tulo cooperated…

  10. Bozo said, on October 20, 2015 at 12:03 pm

    Like Hirschbeck, I didn’t see the play. Was it a strike?

    • chipower9 said, on October 20, 2015 at 12:27 pm

      Bahaha…cymbal crash!

      • pawliekokonuts said, on October 20, 2015 at 1:31 pm

        I like that. “Cymbal crash!” Not a bad book title.

  11. snarkk said, on October 20, 2015 at 1:43 pm

    Maybe it’s better these ego umps throw guys out that date threaten the ump’s competence. Else the next time Tulo is up, with 2 guys in scoring position, the ump starts calling pitches a foot outside — a strike …

  12. pawliekokonuts said, on October 20, 2015 at 2:28 pm

    “Juan Marichal” just retweeted my birthday wishes.

    • djloo27 said, on October 20, 2015 at 4:00 pm

      I imagine you wrote something better than HB, Juan.
      Juana share it?

      • djloo27 said, on October 20, 2015 at 4:30 pm

        Just saw your e-mail. Great job, PK!

  13. djloo27 said, on October 20, 2015 at 4:40 pm

    So Murphy’s homered in 4 straight playoff games.
    I can think of someone who homered in 4 straight NLCS games…

  14. zumiee said, on October 20, 2015 at 4:43 pm

    The Royals seem like a classic “team on a mission.” They went through the agony of getting so close last year, of going through that crucible; and they stayed hungry and focused this season. They haven’t been hit by injuries too much.

  15. zumiee said, on October 20, 2015 at 4:49 pm

    Eric Stephen, writing about Greinke, who’ll probably end up with a staggering contract from somebody:

    He is coming off one of the best pitching seasons in recent memory, going 19-3 with a 1.66 ERA with the Dodgers with 200 strikeouts in 222⅔ innings. He lasted at least six innings in all 32 starts, and put up 30 quality starts.
    Greinke in 2016 will be entering his age-32 season, one year older than Jon Lester was last offseason when he signed with Chicago for six years, $155 million.

    • Flavor said, on October 20, 2015 at 6:12 pm

      2094 innings on that arm. And that’s just his MLB innings. Think about the number of pitches he’s thrown in his lifetime. Arm troubles are beckoning. I don’t want to deal with another Cain thing.

      • snarkk said, on October 20, 2015 at 6:28 pm


  16. snarkk said, on October 20, 2015 at 6:12 pm

    As Kruk says. this Degrom dude is ” Blowin Cheese”!…

  17. snarkk said, on October 20, 2015 at 6:29 pm

    Do the Cubs ever score without hitting a jack?…

  18. xoot said, on October 20, 2015 at 6:56 pm

    I think the runner on third Cespedes gets a RBI for taking advantage of the bounced 3d strike WP that he could score on.

  19. wilcojoe said, on October 20, 2015 at 6:59 pm

    That fucking ivy. That runner easily scores if it doesn’t get stuck in that shit.

  20. wilcojoe said, on October 20, 2015 at 7:12 pm

    I am not a botanist but how could that Ivy be thick enough this late in October (in Chicago of all places) to swallow up a baseball? That is ridiculous.

  21. xoot said, on October 20, 2015 at 7:22 pm

    Da Hulk don’t have soft hands

  22. xoot said, on October 20, 2015 at 8:04 pm

    I’m actually a bit surprised that Jack White allows so many ball parks to blast versions of Seven Nation Army as a team’s “fight song” late in the game. He should hire a good expensive law firm to fire off threatening cease and desist letters over that infringement. Oh. Wait. Maybe he’s already getting paid for that use? hmmm.

  23. snarkk said, on October 20, 2015 at 8:14 pm

    Cubs and Jays in deep doo doo…

  24. Flavor said, on October 20, 2015 at 9:01 pm

    Mets are reminding me of any of our last 3 WS winners……

    • snarkk said, on October 20, 2015 at 9:05 pm

      As many have said, particularly 2010 with the outstanding starting hurlers…

  25. snarkk said, on October 20, 2015 at 9:06 pm

    Edinson Volquez goes for the Royals in the next game. Advantage Jays in that one…

  26. zumiee said, on October 21, 2015 at 7:38 am

    Bummed-out Dodger fans, contemplating their 27th disappointing season in a row:

    Off season. : (

    by Catherine the Blue on Oct 20, 2015 | 10:44 PM up reply

    And not far enough off season for the sting to be off the fact that it’s the off-season.

    by urbino on Oct 20, 2015 | 10:46 PM up reply

    I’m counting the days to ST already, damnit.

    by jim hitchcock (railway) on Oct 20, 2015 | 10:48 PM up reply

    Atsalotta countin’.

    by urbino on Oct 20, 2015 | 10:52 PM up reply

    Yep. I guess it’s how I deal with season’s end.

    by jim hitchcock (railway) on Oct 20, 2015 | 10:55 PM up reply

    I dont even want to think about it, it still hurts so much inside man… Thats why i dont even talk about it i keep it all bottled up inside… But it hurts man, wtf god dammit!
    Everytime i think about that i now have to wait til tis time next year, a whole fucking year! To have another chance and thats even IF we make playoffs next year.. I’m tired of this shit

    by uschris0304 on Oct 20, 2015 | 10:57 PM up reply

    Dodgers are my favorite of my teams, i love all my teams to death but the Dodgers are my favorite son and it kills me i cant get one god damn title.

    by uschris0304 on Oct 20, 2015 | 11:06 PM up reply

    me too
    Gotta keep going for the goal
    If they would only put me in control of the team …

    by 68elcamino427 on Oct 20, 2015 | 11:06 PM up reply

    Its always some random fucker that kills us too not the superstar, but a random fucker! Wish we had a random fucker that would do that for us! Such bad luck it makes me sick.. Now they are up 3-0 too makes it worse!

    by uschris0304 on Oct 20, 2015 | 11:14 PM up reply

    And its such a long ass season too, and games every damn day, its a lot of commitment and this coming up short shit is killing me, why cant we have a cole hamels, or a matt stairs? Why cant we have a matt carpenter or david fuckin murphy?? Fuck man, why does god hate me so much?? But i will figure it out eventually, this just cant go on forever

    by uschris0304 on Oct 20, 2015 | 11:09 PM up reply

    I love the everyday thing. I separate it from the post season, adore it for it’s own sake.

    by jim hitchcock (railway) on Oct 20, 2015 | 11:17 PM up reply

    might not even get to this point next season
    then what do you do?
    fire the manager you just hired?

    by 68elcamino427 on Oct 20, 2015 | 11:01 PM up reply

    I know man, eventually Kershaw or someone Key is going to break. Maybe that is when we will win it all though who knows, sports is stupid like that.

    by uschris0304 on Oct 20, 2015 | 11:16 PM up reply


    by 68elcamino427 on Oct 20, 2015 | 11:17 PM up reply

    daniel murphy is the end of time

    by Hollywood Joe on Oct 20, 2015 | 9:46 PM reply

    he is the best I have ever ever ever seen

    by Hollywood Joe on Oct 20, 2015 | 9:48 PM up reply

    he is a momentary visit
    from the gods
    like babe ruth

    by 68elcamino427 on Oct 20, 2015 | 10:22 PM up reply

    • chipower9 said, on October 21, 2015 at 9:37 am

      Thanks, Zume…love this stuff. I kinda feel sorry for those poor suffering bastards. Uh, just kidding…suffer away, bitches!

  27. zumiee said, on October 21, 2015 at 7:59 am

    I’m still left wondering how Kershaw/Greinke starting 4 outta 5 is not good enough? I thought the NLCS would have exposed our issues, not the NLDS.

    by Berryberrygoodtome on Oct 21, 2015 | 6:58 AM reply

    the Dodgers main mistake was not trading for Daniel Murphy.

    by underdog on Oct 21, 2015 | 7:22 AM up reply

    and not covering third

    by NYAsFan on Oct 21, 2015 | 7:41 AM up reply

    That was deplorable.

    by Berryberrygoodtome on Oct 21, 2015 | 7:57 AM up reply

  28. willedav said, on October 21, 2015 at 8:32 am

    Cubs weaknesses kind of mirror the Stros—great top of rotation, lot less after.
    Lot of HRs, lot of Ks.
    Lot of good young players, not a lot of proven vets with experience.

    Is Maddon getting anything out of batting SP 8th? Still seems like a dumb idea. Fact that he has stuck with it seems equally dumb and hard headed.

    “and not covering third” was pretty good.

    LA could still get Murphy too.

    In its own way postseason seems to magnify short comings of the losing teams (Cards LA Pirates et al) that are talking about their next moves to upgrade and improve. I just don’t think Giants are that worse off than others that have fallen by wayside lately.

  29. Flavor said, on October 21, 2015 at 9:28 am

    nuevo thread.

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