Trades, Free Agency, Etc…..
The exchange at the end of the last thread shows why fans aren’t GM’s. What seems a no brainer trade to me (Panik and Belt for Harvey and Duda) was shot down by a few of you. The point isn’t to rattle that specific discussion up again but it is interesting to see how differently we view talent and production.
I don’t see the Giants making a trade for 2 reasons: 1) we don’t have young players that other teams covet and 2) Sabean overvalues all of his players.
Free agent signings? So much for Leake giving us first crack, apparently the Giants haven’t spoken to him yet. Screw him. I don’t want Mike Leake for anywhere close to the deal he’s going to get offered by other teams.
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Yeah, overvaluing your own talent, and not hitting the crazy money train for the big names leaves guys like Leake available as rentals during the season. If he gets big $$$ hey, good luck. But we didn’t give up much to get him.
Overpaying in the offseason is easy. Just look at the Pads, the Red Sox , and others. Taking on a couple needed guys at the deadline is pretty much Sabean’s raison d’etre.
Flav, let’s be real—you’d do almost any deal that gets rid of Belt, lol. He does have value even if he does not fit the mold of a power hitting 1b. But…as I said if you are gonna move Posey to 1b by 2017 then SF will need a C prospect to be every day player more than a 1b and I don’t see anyone like that presently. Bottom line I would not move anyone on the IF–there are a couple of AS players making jack shit for $$$, very good with upside. Given the likes of what else we’ve seen (OOO, Frandsen) the non Belt IF guys are sketchy, even Specs.
Leake is a business man–he’d be dumb to take Giants first offer without taking a peek at what another team might be willing to pay. I’m not sold he’s all that good in the first place. SF made big offers last year to FA SPs, so something might still come through. Right now you’d have to wonder how the Giants would handle playoff rotation. I don’t think 2014 scenario would work again.
The Giants seem to have pitching in the pipeline, tho it might be a year before SPs are very effective at ml level. I listened to Woodson last night talking to Heston, good interview, seems to have good head on his shoulders. He might be a kid who can eat up innings and give you a better effort over full season 2016.
I beg to differ regarding the Giants not having players sought by other teams. The team really has quite a few young arms that look good, and also a young catcher availble (not to mention Parker, Specs, or Williamson). Point being I do believe they have a number of pieces in which other teams would be interested.
In the articles I have read, Evans has said that they will look to both free agency and trades as potential ways to fill out the roster.
And back to the trade mentioned at the end of the last thread, I would not make that trade, mainly for the reasons mentioned by a few others…principally that you would be degrading the IF in two of the four spots, and both of those players (Belt and Panik) have good salaries with which the Giants have some control. I see Panik (if he stays healthy), as potentially being a regular AS. I would rather see the team stand pat on the IF, and acquire a SP and OFer via free agency.
I don’t think it’s fair to say Sabes over values his players…overpays them sure, in multiple instances.
Look at some of the deals he has made in the past that greatly benefited 3 in 5 teams:
Acquired Pagan for Andres, who was never the same player he had been.
Scutaro for Culberson and cash in waiver deal from Rox.
Bowker and Ironhead Joe Martinez for Javier Lopez.
Tim Alderson for Glass Sanchez.
T Joseph and Nate for Pence.
In each case he got the far superior player while giving up mostly prospects that have never much panned out.
He has signed under radar FAs like Casilla Affeldt Uribe and Burrell without giving up anything.
If you are going to make a trade to improve the team, it’s to address areas of need. For me that means an OF better than Blanco Pagan or Aoki, a C that can be everyday player, and an SP you are sure can throw 200 innings and be #2 go to guy in playoffs behind Bum.
Nicely put. And I agree, except for Blanco, he has been way more valuable than Pagan.
Then just ink Grienke,Chose of Zimmerman or Smadlaza whatever his name is, for your 200 inning guys and get Gordon and call it a early Christmas..
Interesting article, calls out Dusty Baker, but the writer lumps in all MLB managers also
http://www.si.com/thecauldron/2015/11/06/dusty-baker-washington-nationals-mlb-managers?xid=smartnews
One excellent Giants trading prospect has been pretty much overlooked on the board. Burning up the Arizona Winter League and even showing a bit of pop to go along with his standardized .300+ batting average is Christian Arroyo. Pegged as perhaps a step slow to remain a shortstop, Arroyo hit over that .300 mark at high A San Jose last season. One mark against his hitting is that his OBP is a bit lower than it might be because he hits anything more or less hitable and barrels up on just about every one he swings at. Thus he draws few walks.
Take a look at the recent additions to the team ~ generally overlooked infielders who are clutch,grinder types who give it their all. Individually they maybe are not your classic five-toolers everybody hopes for, but their intangibles add up to better production at the ML level than most more highly touted prospects in other organizations. So there are GM’s out there who look at this recent track record ~ see a rapidly emerging 20 Y.O. middle infielder who appears to be a born hitter who will be at AA next season and maybe just a year from starting in The Show…and they start drooling.
Some G.M. who realistically realizes his team is in a rebuilding process and not in the Postseason chase in ’16 and has, say a 32 Y.O. outfielder who has been a steady producer but currently costs a bit much and can be replaced within the system; may look at Arroyo’s AzL stats and go over his developmental track and be motivated to get on speed-dial with Sabevans to talk turkey even before Thanksgiving.
I have heard Arroyo will get a good look in ST. Problem is that there really is no spot for him, unless he makes the team as a utility guy, and I think Specs will probably be the one to win one of those spots.
Chi. You echo my point ~ which i did not fully draw out. Giants infield is crowded with excellence. Yet another product from their highly successful I.F. production line is knocking at the door. Most teams have an opposite situation from the Giants as they readily develop OFers but have problems with the up close. So my scenario makes excellent sense for a rebuilding outfit boasting an outfielder they can spare, but needing a major IF infusion in the next year or two.
Yep, we are singing from the same sheet of music, Stix.
I guess what I mean about Giants prospects is this: I think they are more valuable to us as mlb players than they are as trade bait. I don’t see a bunch of GM’s lining up to get Specs or Heston. And regarding Belt, he’s still dealing with concussion symptoms, nobody is trading for him right now. And the fact that he’s still dealing with this 2 months removed from his 3rd one (that knocked him out of the season) should be a HUGE concern to Giants fans…….
If I were [note my use of the increasingly-becoming-dead subjunctive mood] the Giants’ GM, they’d be a last-place swamp of Brad Hennessy-Pat Misch-John Bowker-Brandon Hicks wannabes. (Did y’all know that Misch, WHO NEVER WON ONE GAME FOR US, if I’m not mistaken, just threw a no-hitter to clinch the Taiwan Series?)
There was a big article in USA Today yesterday touting the Giants as the logical suitor of Greinke. This morning on the MLB Network, Gammons said the same thing. All just a bunch of smoke? Is there any fire underneath that smoke?
I don’t know about fire, but I think I see a few mirrors.
As has been discussed here, perhaps the Giants just drive-up the price so the bums resign Greinke at an exorborant price.
Shit, we won’t be the only ones driving it up.
David Schoenfield, at the ESPN website:
“Tim Hudson retired and Tim Lincecum is a free agent, so that’s $30 million in new change lying around. Some of that goes to increases for Buster Posey (about $3 million) and Madison Bumgarner (another $3 million), and Jake Peavy jumps up from $9 million to $15 million. Brandon Crawford will get a big raise in arbitration. Bumgarner’s team-friendly contract runs through 2019, so re-signing him isn’t an immediate issue. Plus the Giants have a lot of money soon coming off the books: Peavy, Angel Pagan and Sergio Romo after 2016. Marco Scutaro made $6.7 million in 2015 while on the DL. All that is a way of saying there could be room in the payroll for Greinke.
The Giants definitely need help with the rotation, which ranked seventh in the NL in ERA but just 12th in road ERA. Maybe they stick to a midrotation guy like Mike Leake and hope Matt Cain can make a strong comeback, but signing Greinke — and sticking it to the Dodgers — would be pretty sweet.”
The only thing that makes me cautious re: Greinke is his age. But I have read of late where many of the so-called experts dispell this, saying that even if Greinke looses some cheddar, he still has the mechanics and control to be effective without as much velocity (Madux was even mentioned as a comparison). If he would take three years with an option, I would be all over it. I definitely do not want to see anything in excess of five years.
Looking forward to the Richard Thomson show on Sunday, Zumiee!
Cool! Me too! I just now sent you an email on that.
No way in hell we get Grienke, irregardless (hah!) of the loose change in Charlie Johnson’s couch.
We’re already wearing Cain’s deal. Another pitcher at ginormous dollars? Doubtful. The usual strategy is see who comes out of camp and does a serviceable job until they pry someone off a cratering team at the deadline.
And yes, his age precludes a long deal…
Here’s what Bobby has to say about Grienke . . .
http://www.csnbayarea.com/giants/giants-gm-evans-200-million-greinke-tall-order
Welcome to the nightmare, Dusty
http://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles/report_nationals_plan_to_keep_jonathan_papelbon_think_he_can_play_nice/s1_8626_19831753?mb_edition=5146&linksrc=mb_story_main_head_4_19831753
I remember Papelbon making some rant about Obama wanting to take all of his guns. He and Schilling ought to get together and have a stupid-contest. Schilling managed to lose all of his money investing in a doomed video game company. I’m sure somebody has a bridge they’d be willing to sell Papelbon.
Hah!
Evans doesn’t really have much to say that means anything. He makes Bochy sound like Socrates.
That whole nonsense about Aoki and Byrd was ridiculous. Aoki’s option is 5.5 mil, and what you get for a vet at that price is Aoki…not Cespedes or Alex Gordon or J Up or Zobrist. If you like the guy sign him but he’s not getting any better at his age at playing the OF or baserunning..
As for Giants prospects, um, a lot of them were in Giants unis last year– Heston Osich Broadway Specs Duffy Parker Williamson and a couple back up Cs too. Duvall found a home with Reds I think.
NY Daily News FA predictions:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/harper-mlb-free-agents-sense-places-article-1.2425469
Chuck and Zum, enjoy the Richard Thompson show. After all of our talk here about him, Fairport, etc., I dug up some old Fairport footage on youtube; one plays a song on background scenes of the band circa: 1970. Richard and Sandy Denny, around 22 years old. Priceless to see the beginning of genius. And man, did he have a head of hair…..
So Perez cleared waivers, which I take it to mean he was taken off the 40 man to make room? I don’t know if this is just a timing thing or what it means, but Byrd is still on the 40 man (Aoki is not). 33 total on the 40 man, and yes Ehire Adrianza continues to be one.
Warriors all bidness tonite taking apart Nuggets. Up by 30 in last minute of first half, with 74 as half ends.
20 from Steph and everyone involved as team already has 20 assists.
Just don’t get me started on Roz.
ah ha! I should’ve known the basketball maven would be watching
Curry hit some impressive 3s in the first half, but there was one that didn’t quite fall, but instead circled slowly around the rim before falling, that struck me. How is it possible to launch a shot so softly from so far away?
Anyone else watching the Warriors tonight? At half time, Steph Curry still averaging more than 1 point per minute of play so far this season. Draymond G playing hard, everyone else playing well. Jeezus. I think I’ll check back in toward the end of the game, see if Denver regained some dignity.
denver hitting their shots in 3rdQ xoot, lead down to 20-ish. curry still rolling, 8 3s I think 33 points..
Btw that was 28 assists in the first half, great ball movement for open shots.
time for me to check back into the dubs game, I guess. I was watching the recorded KY game from earlier today. Long story. But I like KY.
Randle kid looks pretty good for Lakers who finally won one tonight. 14 points 7 boards.
I really enjoyed watching Randle play for KY. They had a lot of OT games that year. He always came up big. The light in his eyes at the end of the game or in OT was amazing. The other kids were dogged. He was ready to play another hour.
Denver’s back up Gs on the floor now in 4th Q, couple Philly guys–Jameer Nelson of St. Joe’s and Randy Foye of Nova.
Dubs built 30 point lead in first half, cruised and rested starters in the second half to prep for the back to back tomorrow night in Sactown. Can’t win by 50 every game. Barring injury, Dubs look like a lock to win north of 60 again…
Christian Arroyo will be playing in the Arizona Fall League all-star game today at 5:00 Pacific Time on the MLB Network.
Sad ending to our first day in our new home- Zeke had a stroke Monday and passed away on Wednesday. You all know how I loved that boy.
wow twin. so sorry to hear that. i get crushed each time one of them goes.
Such sad news, Twin. You gave Zeke a great home for many years. I hope he went peacefully.
I know the pain – one dog and 2 cats. It always hurts…
Damn, so sorry for your loss, twin. It sounds like he hung until he knew you were safe. RIP Zeke.
So sorry about your loss, TF.
Loo’s trade proposal that sparked the thread is interesting on another level tho.
First take for me is, who is best player in the deal? Imo, Panik, legit AS who can play 150 games with good bat and glove and find a way to beat you every single day.
But, Harvey in his 28 starts won half of them, and his stats are excellent–2.23 ERA at home, kills RHB, Ks a ton of guys does not give up hits or walks. In other words he is doing everything he can whenever he gets ball.
So how do you equate value? How good does a pitcher have to be before he is equal to a position player, or vice versa?
Some of biggest deals that turned out worst involved hitter/pitcher: Larry Andersen for prospect Jeff Bagwell, Cepeda for Sadecki, Brock for Ernie Broglio, yada yada. Unfair to judge pitchers this way?
Well this freaked me out a little. If you don’t feel like reading through it, this guy has the Giants landing Cespedes, Leake and Kennedy:
http://nypost.com/2015/11/06/predicting-where-mlbs-top-30-free-agents-will-land/
I’m not seeing Cespedes going to SF. That contract wouldn’t be very Giantsy.
I don’t know, Zum – if this guy’s right, that deal is probably 2 years and $50 million less than he might have gotten before his post season return to Earth. I’d do it…
Be interesting to see how many of these someone gets right.
I don’t see Giants dropping that much coin on any of these 3, let alone all of them.
Lot of his numbers just seem out of this world to me, but…
Arroyo hit a single, then got thrown out trying to steal secondbase.
He’s playing secondbase, which may or may not be interesting.
Cespedes is an odd willful guy. He took the 4 year $36 million deal with the a’s because they agreed to let him start in CF from day one. After a couple of months, even the a’s couldn’t justify playing him in CF, so he moved to LF. Many of his great throws from LF occurred because he misplayed a drive and then had to try to gun down a runner taking an extra base. He swings hard all the time, strikes out a lot, and he chain smokes in the tunnel behind the dugout — during regular games and while he’s busy injuring his wrists at the HR Derby. The golf obsession is a new issue. Yoenis makes Pablo seem temperate. The Giants will not sign Cespedes to a 6 year deal.
Curry vs. Curry tonight! 🙂 The Kings are undermanned, but keen on an upset. 🙂
Cousins is out, right?
Yes.
Yanks’ catching prospect went yard.
That guy Sanchez is huge.
Yanks have McCann for a few more years; maybe Sanchez becomes a nice trade chip.
Kings hanging close.
Klay needs to get his O going.
Dubs can’t shoot. 6 games in 9 days . . . NBA schedulers are odd at best.
5-34 on 3’s.
Very sorry to hear about Zeke, Twin.
Still say Goff should stick around for senior year. He still makes bad decisions (like end of first half last night when he blew scoring chance by running around as clock ran out) and throws into coverage when guys aren’t open. He’ll be more mature, further along in his college ed, and just smarter player.
It’s much easier to go from awful to bowl eligible, which Cal should be able to do with Ws vs. Oregon State and ASU. To be a contender for league title is still long way to go, esp defensively. Give Dykes more time to recruit better players and come up with schemes for what he has–lot of good offenses in this conference every year that are tough to defend.
new thread.