A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Hoping For the Best

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on December 8, 2015

Belt. Cain. Panik. Peavy. Pagan. Pence.

Those 6 guys have been a big part of the success the Giants have had over the last half decade. And as the roster is currently constructed, now that we’ve added J-Sam, the team looks pretty good. But that’s if you’re counting on those 6 guys listed above.

How many of those 6 can we truly count on to stay healthy and productive? About the only one I have complete confidence in is Pence.

So the construction of the team needs to continue. I know it’s not the Giants way to have contingency plans. They build a roster as if they don’t even consider the possibility of injury. To be fair, that’s the way most teams do it. But considering the uncertainty of that half dozen, I hope there are more moves coming……

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  1. willedav said, on December 8, 2015 at 7:17 am

    Loo made a joke about east coast bias re:McCaffrey on last thread. East Coast guys on this blog are awesome, all of them whipsmart with great sense of humor.

    but I’d ask outsiders their impressions of New Yorkers and how they feel about those on left coast in general.
    Mine was, NYC people were convinced they were tougher, smarter and more professional as businessmen (and women). They could survive and thrive out here, but we’d be eaten alive if we had to do same in NYC.

    There was a group of 7-10 NYC people at couple of our company meetings, with 15-20 from Seattle/Portland/California including main office execs. Seating at all day meetings was often pre-arranged.
    When we would break for lunch, NYC people ate with their own and only one or two would get up and socialize, and it was same afterwards getting a drink at a hotel bar. I could talk to them (especially about sports or music) and they were friendly enough, but… Others felt it more strongly, and if there was a contest thing during a meeting, they seemed more pumped about winning it for their side.

    Idk Flav, I think 2016 team will be deeper than any in a long time. Giants young guys have been very productive last few years (except for OF) and I think farm system about to pay more dividends in rotation and pen..

    • wilcojoe said, on December 8, 2015 at 9:16 am

      Having lived on both sides of the coast and of course Texas, which is its own country, I agree with your description of New Yorkers or pretty much anyone from the eastern seaboard.

      Having worked very closely with financial advisors/ sales reps from the east coast, I can tell you that they are by far the most succcuessful in the country. However, from an ethical and moral standpoint, they get away with things that their counterparts in other parts of the country never could.

  2. chipower9 said, on December 8, 2015 at 8:27 am

    I agree on your synopsis of the six, but feel there is a chance that Cain and Panik can have bounce-back years.

    I am less confident that Belt can come back from the concussions. (I hope like hell he can so that the Giants can get a decent return in a trade!)

    I will be very surprised if Pagan can contribute for a majority of the year. And I have always been a huge fan and supporter of Crazy Horse…I just think that ship has sailed.

    Peavy is a wild-card in my opinion. I could see him flaming out and not being very productive, and I could see him having a suprisingly good year, and neither would surprise me.

    I think the Giants have planned for contingencies in the way they build a roster, in that they regularly have at least a few guys on the roster who can play multiple positions. And I believe that is by design in case there are injuries, etc. Not saying they could not improve here, but I do think those versatile players are there for that reason (to hedge against the injury bug).

    Regarding the Heisman candidate selections: I think the committee was short-sighted. I have no qualms with the three who are making the trip to NY…I just feel that there are a couple of others who should also be making the trip. I think Mayfield (the QB from Oklahoma) is deserving and also the QB from Navy (Reynolds).

  3. Flavor said, on December 8, 2015 at 8:55 am

    “NYC people were convinced they were tougher, smarter and more professional as businessmen (and women). They could survive and thrive out here, but we’d be eaten alive if we had to do same in NYC.”
    Yes, that’s my impression of New Yorkers too. Who knows, maybe it’s true. And i don’t know too many people from NY.

  4. zumiee said, on December 8, 2015 at 9:33 am

    The Chapman situation is sickening. I’m so tired of athletes being abusive. What if the major sports had a zero tolerance for it? One, and their done. I’m all for it.

    • zumiee said, on December 8, 2015 at 9:37 am

      One thing the sports have learned is to not automatically defend the player, and talk about “let’s wait for due process” and meanwhile the player goes on as if nothing wrong has happened. The players should be suspended while they wait for their due process to play out. How about send a strong message to these guys?

      • blade3colorado said, on December 8, 2015 at 9:49 am

        Where there’s smoke, there’s usually fire. Consequently, I am down with what you said.

      • chipower9 said, on December 8, 2015 at 9:57 am

        I agree with getting tough on these dirtbags, and have no problem with the “One, and they’re done” after they are found guilty in a court of law. But to suspend them while the investigation is under way is like saying they are guilty until proven innocent (which goes against the principles on which our justice system is based), so I cannot buy into that aspect of your suggestion.

        I am not saying it is always the case, but there have been quite a few instances where the athlete (or athletes) under investigation are exonerated.

      • blade3colorado said, on December 8, 2015 at 10:07 am

        Good points Chi. To clarify, I do think there should be a lifetime ban for those convicted of Felony Domestic Violence in a court of law. To the best of my understanding, felony domestic violence may involve:

        Violence resulting in serious bodily harm or death
        Violence or abuse inflicted on a minor or young child
        Acts involving injuries caused by a deadly weapon (threats with a weapon may also result in felony charges)
        Acts involving conduct of an inappropriate sexual nature
        Felony charges are very difficult to have expunged from one’s record, though this can be possible after a long period of time.*

        *Snarkk or Xoot correct me if I am wrong on the definition.

      • Macdog said, on December 8, 2015 at 10:29 am

        Chapman’s not even a Dodger yet and he’s already choking.

      • chipower9 said, on December 8, 2015 at 11:25 am

      • chipower9 said, on December 8, 2015 at 11:27 am

        Agree Blade. Felony conviction = lifetime ban.

  5. unca_chuck said, on December 8, 2015 at 11:19 am

  6. Bozo said, on December 8, 2015 at 11:20 am

    Of the 4 position players mentioned, I’m mostly concerned about Pagan and I’m now officially jumping on Chi’s band wagon for Parra. I don’t think the Giants will go hard for Upton or Heyward so a guy that can leadoff and that can play all 3 OF positions sounds good to me.

    Cain and Peavy are still question marks but Jake is a feisty old dude that I think will still be productive. I’m optimistic about Matt and hope he can build on his last game. But yeah, the team should have concerns with those two.

    I’d still like to take a chance on Fister, I think the whole mess in DC just screwed him up and he’s fixable. if not Fister go big and trade with SD for Shields. Cliff Lee might be a low $ risk and don’t forget about Timmy. I have a feeling he will be given an opportunity to stay in Orange and Black.

    • Macdog said, on December 8, 2015 at 11:36 am

      Beat guys just tweeted a couple of Bochy comments about Pagan:

      Bochy said the plan right now is for Angel Pagan to lead off again. “I liked what he did the last month.”

      Bochy says he’s keeping the faith in Angel Pagan as CF and leadoff man. “He’s looking at this year as a big year.”

  7. chipower9 said, on December 8, 2015 at 11:30 am

    Good point, Clown…yes, I forgot about Timmy. I too think he will be given an opportunity, and I think he has as good a chance as anyone to surprise us all (in a good way)…

  8. alleykat69 said, on December 8, 2015 at 11:36 am

    Giants atleast say their kicking a lot tires…
    OF…. Gordon, Fowler,Parra (like him a lot) Cespedes& Heyward will end up being the BS smoke screen as usual.
    So they will save the dough and grab a LF and another 3 guy pitcher probably.
    Fowler are Parra could be the choice, still a upgrade over Pagan who will break down anyway..

    • zumiee said, on December 8, 2015 at 11:49 am

      Yeah, the Giants need to have Plan B for centerfield on high-alert standby as the season gets started.

  9. xoot said, on December 8, 2015 at 1:06 pm

    Latest word I read on Panik is that he’s strong and ready to go — that’s why Zobrist is down on SF; he doesn’t want to be the primary LF. Or so the reporters say.

    On Aroldis, apparently yahoo sports broke the story yesterday and threw the wrench into the trade with LA. Then last night two fox sports guys (Moroni, Morosi? and Rosenthal) spread a rumor that Chapman hurt one of his hands in the domestic violence incident. (Personally, I think fox was just over-reaching in response to getting scooped by yahoo. I don’t trust any of those “reporters.”) Meanwhile, everyone wants to know why the Reds didn’t report the alleged assault to mlb (or to the bums). What an effin mess.

    • unca_chuck said, on December 8, 2015 at 1:21 pm

      Xoot, you’re a lawyer. According to the timeline in the story, this incident was resolved within 4 days of it happening.

      Chapman’s girlfriend told police the incident started when she questioned him about something on his cellphone. Chapman admitted to police that he fired the gun but denied choking his girlfriend.

      Police said in the report that they did not make any arrests because of inconsistencies in stories and lack of physical evidence of injuries. Four days later, Assistant State Attorney Marcie Zaccor said there was insufficient evidence to charge Chapman in the incident.

      If no one is pressing charges, isn’t this just he-said-she-said? I guess we are treading into personal conduct policies, but I never could quite figure out how Chapman can be disciplined for something that isn’t an actual crime.

      Later in the story there this:

      The Boston Globe reported Monday night that the Red Sox, prior to obtaining San Diego Padres closer Craig Kimbrel last month, had also been exploring a trade for Chapman, until a background check turned up the alleged domestic violence incident.

      The story is out there to find but not released to the public in general? As to the earlier stuff about sitting these guys while allegations are sorted through just makes this kind of shit even murkier. I mean, shit, there’s no accounting for the actions of people after things like this happen. Look at Ray Rice. The girl he blasted in the elevator ended up marrying him. WTF?

  10. alleykat69 said, on December 8, 2015 at 1:38 pm

    Yeah I heard that too Chuck that Boston knew about Chapman’s domestic violence in Nov(BR mentioned it) so how come the rest of baseball wasn’t aware?
    Boston probably bailed out not wanting another” Boston Massacre” situation in Beantown…

  11. Bozo said, on December 8, 2015 at 1:54 pm

    From what I’m reading in this article, MLB created a new domestic violence policy in August and they haven’t ruled on any disciplinary actions yet (apparently, 3 AS players are being reviewed) and Chapman’s issue was just relayed to MLB. So my guess is that the Dodgers wanted MLB to make a call and they said they weren’t ready. Which means to me that the trade could still happen depending on the outcome but at a later time.

  12. unca_chuck said, on December 8, 2015 at 2:21 pm

    Everyone’s talking that the trade is dead in the water. And that sometimes the best trade is the one not made. I certainly don’t get it unless the dogs had someone looking at Jensen

  13. zumiee said, on December 8, 2015 at 3:14 pm

    Regarding suspending players while they are being investigated, I should have said that my idea is that they would still get paid during the suspension, like how a police officer still gets paid while suspended and under investigation.
    Whether or not Chapman choked her, that was a heavy dose of pyschological abuse and probably trauma he heaped on her with the shooting. They’re arguing and he goes into the garage and starts shooting a wall, and she’s wondering if she’s going to live through the next few minutes. She hid from him in terror.

    • unca_chuck said, on December 8, 2015 at 4:17 pm

      Again, though, look at Ray Rice’s gf, and now wife. Girls will put up with shit if they dude is rich.

      I ain’t condoning this by any means, but the way these things drag out, it’d be 2 years before this even gets to court. Ray McDonald last year took most of the season. Even Kappy’s deal in the Miami hotel took a while. Or Pablo’s deal in Aptos.

  14. Carstie Clausen said, on December 8, 2015 at 3:49 pm

    Giants now among the teams which have shown interest in Japanese starter Kenta Maeda. His stats look good and he’s not particularly long in the tooth. Posting fee to his current Japanese team is something like a cool $20M, but SF is loaded with cash so that would not be a monster obstacle. Generally first-rate Japanese starters have done well in MLB and this guy could be a step above the second tier MLB free agent starters.

    Maybe it’s time for the Giants to get back into the Japan sweepstakes. SF was the first American team ever to feature a Japanese starter ~ Murakami, i believe his name was. Good pitcher and i wish the team could have kept him longer.

  15. Flavor said, on December 8, 2015 at 3:53 pm

    Giants not final 2 teams Zobrist considering. Good

  16. xoot said, on December 8, 2015 at 4:49 pm

    “The Commissioner may place an accused player on paid administrative leave for up to seven days while allegations are investigated.”

    This policy looks unbelievably amorphous in summary, but who knows. The union and mlb agreed to it in August. They haven’t put it up and running, apparently, although they’re scrambling to do so now.


    Looks like there will be no prosecution in Chapman’s case. It’s all up to the legal marsupials in charge of implementing the new policy.

  17. Macdog said, on December 8, 2015 at 5:18 pm

    Warriors give up 60 in the first half — and they’re up by 19.

    • blade3colorado said, on December 8, 2015 at 5:27 pm

      Yeah, I don’t even like touching those games in DFS. By the end of the 3rd quarter, Curry, Green, and the other starters are on the bench, thinking about which which strip club they are going to.

      • blade3colorado said, on December 8, 2015 at 5:32 pm

        Only occasionally are those situations mitigated by them playing half way decent teams (which on first glance, you would have considered the Pacers as being in that category). Warriors are like a tsunami.

  18. djloo27 said, on December 8, 2015 at 5:46 pm

    Zobrist gets 4/$56 from Cubs. These reporters really know nothing. Cubs unload Castro on Yanks…

  19. Flavor said, on December 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm

    I came home early to watch this Warrior game. Shit, Indiana is good. And at the start of the 4th the Warriors are winning 111-83.

  20. Macdog said, on December 8, 2015 at 5:53 pm

    Sounds like D-Backs have traded for Shelby Miller, giving up Inciarte and this year’s #1 pick SS Dansby Swanson.

    • blade3colorado said, on December 8, 2015 at 6:02 pm

      Win win for both clubs. I also hear the Snakes have signed or are about to sign Mike Leake. Nice haul for the Braves, who obviously are giving up on the season. Ender Inciarte is a stud, and they got a top pitching prospect, Aaron Blair, and a #1 overall draft pick, Dansby Swanson. Snakes are going all out to win the division – Greinke-Miller-Corbin-Leake is a very good pitching rotation, with one spot open.

  21. blade3colorado said, on December 8, 2015 at 6:13 pm

    I think the Cubs are stupid. They give a 34 year old Zobrist a four-year, $56 million deal and practically give away Castro, who is young and versatile himself (he transitioned to 2nd base from SS last season to make way for Russell). Equally important, the three-time All-Star figures to be the Yankees’ second baseman of the future, as he has a team-friendly deal through 2019.

    Cubs = Idiots IMO.

  22. Flavor said, on December 8, 2015 at 6:36 pm

    23-0. Totally stupid 4th Q, had to bring the starters back in after they sat 8 min and Klay gets hurt. Gotta be able to trade buckets in that situation.

  23. blade3colorado said, on December 8, 2015 at 6:51 pm

    Dusty Baker should think twice before opening his pie hole.

  24. Flavor said, on December 8, 2015 at 7:10 pm

    from an older thread….
    giants54 said, on November 20, 2015 at 9:43 am (Edit)
    Betting on 82-0 would be incredibly dumb no matter how high the odds. It’s not going to happen.

    Flavor said, on November 20, 2015 at 9:53 am (Edit)
    of course it isn’t but what if it did?

    • Macdog said, on December 8, 2015 at 7:49 pm

      The ’72 Dolphins should be more worried about the Warriors than the Panthers.

  25. willedav said, on December 8, 2015 at 8:05 pm

    Miller last season got off to fantastic start, with ERA under 2.00 for a while. Second half his ERA was 3.77, which is more like the real Shelby Miller. Guarantee you his ERA at hitter friendly AZ isn’t near 2.00 for very long. Cards didn’t seem to miss him much.

    Kinda surprised AZ gave up the kid SS–Ahmed is fine defensively but not much of a hitter.

    Week ago guy on F/G had a column about 60-1 shots for the WS (marlins A’s couple others), and did an entire write up one he liked best, which happened to be the Snakes. He liked their OF (now minus Enciarte) and of course Golds and said they were the top defensive club in all baseball. Pitching was their primary weakness, Corbin and not much else to go with an under avg. pen.

    Still think these guys are solid 3rd in division and WC isn’t gonna be easy given strength of NL Central, plus Mets/Nats.

  26. willedav said, on December 8, 2015 at 8:16 pm

    Miller’s splits look like this, with 5-6 starts each month:
    April BA against .200, May .155
    April ERA 2.17, May 0.95

    ERA in Sept/Oct 5.40

    July BA against .289, Sept/Oct .290

    Might not be as bad as those last stats, but those others seem like a fluke.

  27. zumiee said, on December 8, 2015 at 8:29 pm

    D-Backs appear to be the new Padres, with pundits hyperventilating about how the D-Backs are winning the offseason. The pundits are so predictable.

  28. Carstie Clausen said, on December 8, 2015 at 8:35 pm

    No question the Snakes are all in on going all out in ’16. Don’t they realize it happens to be an even year? Miller for Enciarte plus One highly rated prospect was a bit leaning towards the Marlins. Two major prospects plus Miller may ultimately prove to be a steep price. Anybody care to rate the relative value to a team of Miller and Enciarte? Seems to me to be fairly close to a wash. But in any event Arizona now possesses a very good to even better top three rotation. Both LA and SF will be highly motivated to add another quality starter. At this point i would lean to Maeda over Cueto.

  29. zumiee said, on December 8, 2015 at 8:35 pm

    If the D-Backs can be more competitive vs. the Dodgers, that’s a good thing for the Giants. The Giants struggle vs. the D-Backs anyway. 🙂
    It’s annoying watching the Dodgers go 14-4 or whatever vs. the D-Backs.

  30. willedav said, on December 8, 2015 at 8:50 pm

    In an article geared toward Cubs, F/G guy writes about value of Heyward in CF(where he hasn’t played much), plus shows him making a great diving catch in the LCF gap when he was with Braves. One of the things he mentions is that if Heyward continues to hit at 120RC pace he would be one of top hitting CFs in all of baseball except for Trout and McCutchen.

    As one of the bloggers commented underneath the column, “If he can play CF he’d fit about 15 teams.” And solve one of Flav’s problems stated in thread once and for all. You have Heyward plus Pence you can play LF by committee and bat him leadoff if you want.

    think of that LU: Heyward Panik Duffy Posey Pence Belt Crawford and fill in the blank!

  31. snarkk said, on December 8, 2015 at 9:40 pm

    Watched the Dubs highlights. They destroyed Indiana for 3 quarters. The second team had troubles in the 4th, but the thing wasn’t in doubt. Klay was unconscious from 3 point land. Curry, the usual floaters, layups and threes, with amazing handle. This team is just surreal. 27 in a row. We are witnessing something truly historic, whether they win the title this year or not. Can a team play any better than this?…

  32. alleykat69 said, on December 8, 2015 at 9:59 pm

    Well I would be “All IN” getting Heyward who they could easily convert to CF with his speed /Arm and GG defense which will equate to serious runs saved along with Hunter’ gun in RF..
    Shift Pagan to LF and tell him to stick it where the sun don’t shine,till he breaks down anyway and you play Blanco who’s better anyway especially on defense..

  33. twinfan1 said, on December 8, 2015 at 11:27 pm

    Late night list making is a lost art..for a reason.

    *Now it’s said that Zobrist wants a deal that will carry him over until he gets his AARP Card
    *Manziel back as Brown’s QB- and just when things were going so well
    *Latest on the Pan Fried Chicken front- A new neighbor named “Idalee” wants a Fried Chicken contest. I’m officially screwed- no way you can beat an Idalee.
    *Maybe I’ll wait to go the biffy until after the Extra Point
    *My sister sent 8 *more* boxes to us. Because we need so much. Yep, we really need 68 pillow cases, 24 bungee cords…
    * 19 teams have submitted requests to play in the NFC East
    * The Jints got a lot of grief for keeping Uggla for 4 games-the Gnats kept him * ALL YEAR*. That explains a lot
    * I was wrong about Idalee- she skins her chicken and coats it with corn flakes. I suggested that she get the hell out of this state and never come back

  34. […] said, on December 8, 2015 at 11:27 pm […]

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