A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

DH Time Baby!

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on January 22, 2016

I wrote a little bit about this 4+ years ago….


I don’t really get the furor that the DH invokes in NL fans. I’d prefer to not see it changed to the NL but it will hardly affect my interest in the game. I’m not going to stop watching baseball because I don’t get to witness a double switch.

But I get why NL fans don’t want it. I really think a lot of that just has to do with routine. We’re all in a routine as fans.

I bet Barry can still hit. How awesome would it be to bring him back as our DH? lulz.

Or Aubry Huff. He’s kick starting a comeback, right?

Baron Davis?

Ok, I’m done…..

78 Responses

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  1. chipower9 said, on January 22, 2016 at 7:02 am

    We all have our opinion on this, but for me, it has nothing to do with routine, and everything to do with the dynamics of the game, and IMO, the way the game was intended to be played. I am old school in my feelings that if you are a member of a team, and take the field with a glove, that when your team’s turn to bat comes around, you also grab a bat and take your hacks. Again, this is the way the game was designed, and I just find it a much better (and more tactical and strategic) game without the DH.

    I left info yesterday with the commissioner’s contact info. I am serious about writing a letter, and truly hope all fans who have a strong desire to keep NL ball as is, will do the same.

    I wrote the commissioner a letter back when our Giants were on the verge of moving to Tampa. Did my letter have an impact on the decision to keep the Giants in SF? Probably not, as I have no idea how many other fans wrote, but I sure as hell felt better after voicing my opinion, and will do the same in regards to the DH.

    And no, I will not quit watching baseball if the DH is instituted across the board. But if that day comes, IMO it will be a very sad day for the game of baseball.

    • Flavor said, on January 22, 2016 at 7:22 am

      You guys can write letters but as I indicated back in 2011, this plan has been in motion for years. The decision has already been made.

      • chipower9 said, on January 22, 2016 at 8:04 am

        What is your proof that the decision has been made? Yes, there has been much dialogue for years. Until it is announced publicly as a DONE DEAL, IMO it is NOT a done deal. Regardless, I am writing letters to the commish and also each and every NL owner. There is always power in numbers.

      • Flavor said, on January 22, 2016 at 8:37 am

        um, watching the course of events for the past 4 + years. Now, that isn’t proof. But it seems pretty obvious to me where this is going and there is zero evidence that the league cares about what the fans think

  2. unca_chuck said, on January 22, 2016 at 7:22 am

    No one will quit the game over this. It’ll be a pisser but yeah, it makes the game less interesting.

  3. Bozo said, on January 22, 2016 at 7:34 am

    They first came up with the DH so Dave Kingman types could get a few extra paychecks before retiring. The players are now paid a gazillion dollars, is there really a need to extend a players paychecks any longer? Do we need players that only play DH in little League/HS/College ball?

    The DH encourages Interleague play, which I fucking hate, I used to get rid of my tickets for that shit. Soon we’ll have Interleague playoffs and we can eliminate the World Series and just have a championship game. Won’t that be cool?
    The title/name of Designated Hitter should be changed to Slacking Egotist Licks Ichiro’s Gonads, (SELIG).
    Maybe they should go all softball like and add an additional fielder, hey that could eliminate the shift that MLB is becoming concerned about.
    Or really go all in on softball and make it underhanded slow pitch with a big old softball. That could cut back on injuries to the pitchers and whatever fans are left in the stands. Hell, at that point they could also start using aluminum bats and save costs on those old style wooden ones.

    I like watching a well pitched, low scoring game. I may be in the minority, but high scoring games actually bore the shit out of me, I start looking at hot dog wrappers or butterflies or some shit. Will I watch the Giants after the DH has been instituted in the NL? Yes, but I won’t watch as many games. I’m not staying up until 4 in the morning to watch a West Coast game.

    I vote No to the DH.

    • chipower9 said, on January 22, 2016 at 8:07 am

      Excellent post, John. I am in LOCK STEP with all the way! Fuck the DH! It is NOT how the game was intended to be played.

  4. Bozo said, on January 22, 2016 at 7:40 am

    Oh yeah, and since this is yet another financial move by MLB and not in keeping with the best interest of the game, it is again time to challenge the antitrust exemption they receive.

  5. blade3colorado said, on January 22, 2016 at 7:56 am

    Agree with Bozo and Chi (and anyone else) who is passionately against the DH. I think it is a big thing and I wont watch as much. One of the biggest reasons I don’t watch much NFL football anymore is because the game is “watered down” with so many rules, that it DOES NOT even come close to resembling the game played when Joe Montana played and certainly doesn’t have anything to do with the game played in the 1950s, 1960s, and most of the 1970s.

    Like I said last week, after they installed walls in the outfield and told the outfielders to pick up their gloves when they returned to the dugout – I don’t see where any other rule has “improved” the game. Lowering the mound, interleague play, baseball in Sherpaland, dead ball, live ball, and especially, the DH – ARE ALL GIMMICKS TO CHANGE WHAT WAS A PERFECT GAME.

    • chipower9 said, on January 22, 2016 at 8:08 am

      Another awesome post! I agree with you whole-heartedly, Steve. Fuck the DH!

    • Carstie Clausen said, on January 22, 2016 at 9:38 am

      Blade: Was gonna do a separate, independent posting but you went and hit my nail on the head. Precisely. The Dink Hitter rule is a gimmick. Baseball in its original form is of a precision and purity rarely matched in any endeavor, sporting or otherwise. The mathematics and geometry are superb. It evolved organically over a course of many decades. Then the beancounters started doing things to justify their inflated salaries and egos.

      • blade3colorado said, on January 22, 2016 at 1:46 pm

        Thanks Chi and Carstie 🙂

  6. willedav said, on January 22, 2016 at 7:57 am

    Much rather see increase in rosters (to appease player union) than DH to NL. As wisc noted, fewer big papi or harold baines edgar martinez types around these days, so much less to be gained. Strategic part of baseball (NL style) is one of things that sets it apart from other sports and having to replace pitchers use a pen and work around their place in LU sets top mgrs. apart from others.

    And really, what is logical extension? Why only have 1 DH if you can extend it to 3 or 4? Stick your all glove types as position players, and they only field. Posey could play forever without having to go through strain of C every day. You could have designated runners too, so when some behemoth gets on base he trots back to dugout and Herb Washington is on basepaths.
    Seems like Hong kong knockoff of a good product.

    • chipower9 said, on January 22, 2016 at 8:10 am

      Great post, and yes, I have mentioned too about an increase in active rosters to like 27 or 28 (I think 28 would be ideal). If the DH in the NL comes to pass, as I said, it will be a VERY SAD DAY for baseball. We will have lost a part of the game that made it what it was…the BEST game on the planet.

    • Carstie Clausen said, on January 22, 2016 at 9:42 am

      W: We are totally on the same page as regards roster expansion, which at 27 players, can be seen as organically apparent and a logical evolution in the game. And, as i noted yesterday and you remark today, the players’ union would be all in favor of that move. Your remark on strategy is spot on and so are your insights into further devolutions of the game if this move proceeds.

    • xoot said, on January 22, 2016 at 10:07 am

      The NL batting order cycle changes the game dramatically, bottoming out with the pitcher’s spot due. Al of the strategy you guys are talking about comes into play, the frustration of a bad hitting pitcher killing a rally does, too. Then there’s the bunt, with less than 2 outs. Etc. And then, either at that moment or at the start of the next inning the LU cycle swings around and the tension of a game changes into a different type of excitement. The AL has none of that close, detailed drama now. I’ve attended Bay Bridge Series over years, and the feel of the games at China Basin is much better. The plow-on-through LUs that play at the E Coli just aren’t as interesting–and they’re exactly the same teams playing. I hate the fuckin DH, man.

  7. Flavor said, on January 22, 2016 at 7:58 am

    Kruk, after being told Pablo lost 20 lbs: “well, he needs to lose another 20”. I didn’t realize he only hit .245 last year…

  8. blade3colorado said, on January 22, 2016 at 8:08 am

    “Seems like Hong kong knockoff of a good product.”

    Great line Willie . . . If you grew up in the 60s and 70s, you knew exactly what made in Japan, China, or Hong Kong denoted.

    • chipower9 said, on January 22, 2016 at 8:11 am


  9. unca_chuck said, on January 22, 2016 at 8:13 am

    Bill Johnson passed away yesterday. Olympic gold medal downhiller in 1984 who mangled himself racing in 2001 and fought to the end. Loved watching this guy race. Totally fearless.

    • blade3colorado said, on January 22, 2016 at 8:17 am

      Yeah, saw that Chuck. Loved the way this guy skied. He only started skiing because he was “forced to.” Caught stealing cars as a teenager, the judge gave him a choice: Attend ski school or head to jail. So he went to Mission Ridge Ski Academy in Washington, where he developed his talent.

      Hilarious. RIP Bill. 😦

    • Flavor said, on January 22, 2016 at 8:38 am

      sad news. Big fan of his back in the day. Skier of the people. That’s tough to be in that sport.

    • Lurker John said, on January 22, 2016 at 9:25 am

      That is really bad news Chuck. He was fun to watch and bringing in the totally unexpected gold medal was huge at a time when U.S skiing was not very competitive internationally. 55. 1 year older than me. oy RIP big guy.

      • unca_chuck said, on January 22, 2016 at 9:58 am

        Well, the Phil and Steve Mahre were racking up World Cup wins in the GS and slalom, but the US downhill team on the other hand had done nothing ever.

    • chipower9 said, on January 22, 2016 at 9:52 am

      RIP…he was damned fun to watch. I remember watching his gold medal runs in ’84.

      • unca_chuck said, on January 22, 2016 at 10:21 am

        Yeah, I had the luck of watching him race a couple times when I lived in Colorado. The Aspen downhill course is insane. He won one and crashed in the other one. This was ’84 and ’85. I think he was off the team by ’86.

  10. willedav said, on January 22, 2016 at 8:43 am

    Wow, never thought a Minnesota type “weather game” might be in store for Charlotte. Supposed to snow with temps in 20s/30s there tmw, along with lot of other places from Balt south, including DC, Charleston WVa and Richmond Va. Snow even in forecast for Little Rock and Birmingham Ala.

    • Carstie Clausen said, on January 22, 2016 at 9:49 am

      Meanwhile, here in the far-flung extremity of Minnesota’s great Northwoods we are looking forward to 20’s and 30’s ABOVE zero this weekend. Hell, Saturday night will not dip below 20 above. What that means is that both jocks and coeds at Brrrmidji State University will be spotted in shorts and tank tops flaunting it on the streets of that town which is not QUITE the cold champion which is the REAL Frostbite Falls (International Falls, which lies on the Rainy River immediately across from Rainy River, Ontario).

      Wouldn’t be a bit surprised if there is a coeducational hockey match going on upon the frozen Rainy this weekend with kids wearing pads and little else.

      • Macdog said, on January 22, 2016 at 10:11 am

        Wouldn’t you know it, Trent Baalke is a Brrrmidji alum.

  11. dirtnrocksnomo said, on January 22, 2016 at 9:17 am

    As far as the regular season of the major sports leagues goes Baseball is pretty much the only one I watch and I only watch the NL because I find the AL to be boring but I’m not getting down to the intricate tactical details of the double switch or whether Bumgarner should be batting 8th or 9th. I just think the NL game has a better flow to it and I attribute that to the fact that the pitcher hits. You don’t see as many endless innings and beer league type scores. At the end of the day I’m not too spun up about it and will still watch the Giants but this is ‘Murica Big Flav. I’m holding on to my irrational anger till the end!

  12. Lurker John said, on January 22, 2016 at 9:20 am

    Nothing short of a complete revamping of the rules to something along the lines of curling would put me off the game, it’s too deeply ingrained for that and I know it is for you guys too. That’s not the point to me for the DH. I’m just a purist and like chi and Chuck, feel it add interest and another layer of strategy. It’s also bizarre that a major sport has two different sets of rules for the same game. The biggest issue with the DH now is that it’s firmly entrenched in the AL so there’s no way it’s ever going away, especially with the uber powerful player’s union having their say. Frankly, I’m getting tired of the whole goddamn situation

    Bozo, I love a brisk, well-played pitcher’s duel too, but high-scoring back and forth games are great too.

    • chipower9 said, on January 22, 2016 at 9:57 am

      I could care less if the DH goes away in the junior circuit, and would be EXTREMELY HAPPY to keep things as they are today. I agree…I like all types of games. The 1-0 and 2-1 pitcher’s duels are fun to watch, but I also enjoy a good 6-5 game with back and forth scoring (especially if those runs are “manufactured,” and not the result of a three run bomb.

  13. zumiee said, on January 22, 2016 at 9:37 am

    I don’t want the DH in the NL, and I like the passion being shown against it; but I have a suspicion that the Cardinals organization has a lot of pull with MLB on issues, and the Cards are now, apparently, onboard for the DH in the NL because of the Wainwright injury, of course.
    If I try to look for a silver lining for the Giants, it would make it easier for the Giants to keep Belt in the future. Posey could DH when he’s not catching.
    The DH, though; yuck.
    Chi, Ed, and I were at the game where MadBum hit an HR to defeat Kershaw. It was an epic, awesome moment. Pitchers getting hits is a cool random factor. (Unless it happens against the Giants, and then it drives me crazy.) 🙂

  14. Macdog said, on January 22, 2016 at 9:41 am

    A couple of moments we would’ve been deprived of had the DH been in the NL:

    Jonathan Sanchez’s completely out of nowhere triple in the regular-season finale against the Pads that helped clinch the division.

    MadBum hitting not one, but two grand slams in 2014.

    Such moments, of course, are rare, but that’s what makes them so special. Eff the DH.

  15. zumiee said, on January 22, 2016 at 9:47 am

    Jerry West’s Lakers lost to the Celtics 6 times in the Finals. That’s rough. They played the Knicks 3 times in the Finals, and lost 2 of them. He did win 1 championship as a player. Of course, he won many championships as a GM with the Lakers, and has brought his insight to the Warriors’ front office.
    West won a state championship as a high school player in West Virginia, and his college team, West Virginia Univ., lost by 1 point in the championship game to Pete Newell’s Cal team. A year later, Newell was his headcoach on the 1960 Olympic team that won gold in Rome. Oscar Robertson was on that team, too.
    A few years later, West’s parents’ home caught fire and burned completely to the ground, and two of the few things salvaged from the fire were Jerry’s gold medal and his Olympic uniform, although the uniform had burn marks on it. Just about all of his high school and college sports memorabilia and trophies were lost in the fire.

  16. Flavor said, on January 22, 2016 at 11:03 am

    Kerr back tonight. Has there ever been an interim coach as successful as Walton? Maybe Seifert? Although he obviously wasn’t interim.

    • alleykat69 said, on January 22, 2016 at 11:12 am

      Scooped by Flavor Flav…well done sir!!

    • unca_chuck said, on January 22, 2016 at 11:18 am


    • djloo27 said, on January 22, 2016 at 5:49 pm

      How about Fisher winning the NCAA at Michigan in 1989?

  17. alleykat69 said, on January 22, 2016 at 11:10 am

    Steve Kerr coming back to coach tonight!
    No pressure, but you better win!!
    Does this mean Luke won’t coach the All-Star team?

  18. chipower9 said, on January 22, 2016 at 11:27 am

    And in the all important news of the day…

    ONLY 26 days until pitchers and catchers report!

  19. snarkk said, on January 22, 2016 at 12:09 pm

    DH to the NL is motivated by some sort of money grab, no doubt. The fans feeling on it likely has little impact on the MLB/MLBPA decision on the matter. I’m against it for all the reasons eloquently made above by other Flappers…

  20. chipower9 said, on January 22, 2016 at 1:11 pm

    Off topic. I read an article today where it is thought that the Tennessee Titans will trade away their #1 pick, and that a slew of teams wishing to draft a QB will have interest in trading for the pick.

    The REAL KICKER: “The general consensus in talking to NFL scouts this week is that a quarterback will go No. 1 overall after someone trades up with the Titans. The most common answer to which player that will be is Cal quarterback Jared Goff.”

  21. xoot said, on January 22, 2016 at 2:17 pm

    In NBA news, LeBron James has fired Cavaliers coach David Blatt.

  22. unca_chuck said, on January 22, 2016 at 2:21 pm

    Goff helped his cause with the bowl win, and Paxton Lynch hurt his cause nearly as much.

  23. alleykat69 said, on January 22, 2016 at 2:48 pm

    Jesus WTF is with these owners in sports. A coach that has a 30-11 record in 1st place, won 8 of last 10 and gets “ShitCanned” to the curb??
    Remember when Marty Schotthemier (sp??) went 14-2 and same results , just cause he didn’t get to the SB??? that year??

    • unca_chuck said, on January 22, 2016 at 4:10 pm

      See: Seifert, George . . . Or Mooch. Dallas and Green Bay were their nemesises, uh nemesies, uh nemesi?

  24. zumiee said, on January 22, 2016 at 3:21 pm

    Cav ownership was pretty steamed about that huge loss to the Warriors at home on national TV. The Cavs looked so lifeless that night. I’m not sure that changing coaches will do much.

    • unca_chuck said, on January 22, 2016 at 4:12 pm

      Right. They got away with beating a team with less heart than themselves in the LA Clippers.

  25. Flavor said, on January 22, 2016 at 5:36 pm

    It’s weird cause I watched last night’s Cavs/Clips game in its entirety and it was like watching a completely different team. There was fantastic ball movement, they were playing as a team…..and then….coach whacked!

    • unca_chuck said, on January 22, 2016 at 5:44 pm

      They might as well eliminate the pretense and hire Bron Beron to coach the team.

      Attles did it in the 60’s. A few other guys as well. Jo Jo White?

  26. djloo27 said, on January 22, 2016 at 5:52 pm

    Didn’t Captain Willie Mays kind of manage the Giants – particularly during the Herman Franks years?

  27. willedav said, on January 22, 2016 at 6:21 pm

    Have a couple Pete Newell books in b-ball coaching lib. One he wrote on post player moves counter moves and footwork is just fabulous.
    Used to own Wooden too before he retired and Wooden started recruiting better athletes and UCLA took off.
    Suddenly wooden is the west coast genius with championship teams.

    Flav, listened to Walton doing the Stanford-AZ game last night til they got down 14 mid second half. I think he said he’s got the Cal-AZ game which is on ESPN tmw at 5:30. Count how many times he says, “the conference of champions.”

  28. willedav said, on January 22, 2016 at 7:12 pm

    LeBron is so FOS. His team has won 30 games–only GS SA and OKC have more in entire league.
    His team was in NBA Finals last year, and missing couple All-Stars, lost to Warriors 4-2.

    So now the coach has to go because he got his ass kicked (again) by Warriors on national TV in front of everyone. This has zero to do with who coaches the team. It’s LB that has to change his style and get everyone involved, at both ends of floor, if he wants to beat Warriors.

    TLue is gonna find out something too. As the asst., when you’re on bench and somebody coming out the game give you that “wtf?” look or questions head guy’s play call, you chill them out and say positive stuff like, “take a quick rest and you’ll get back in” or “hey see what happens/ how other team defends it.” Now, it’s you they don’t trust to be doing the right thing. Along with now you get all the blame and zero credit.

    @DJ–good call on Fisher and his Five; kinda funny 2 of them are big time NBA analysts now. He’s still going strong at San Diego St too.

  29. Macdog said, on January 22, 2016 at 7:14 pm

    Maybe the Cavs should hire Luke Walton.

    • willedav said, on January 22, 2016 at 7:29 pm

      Hey saw Monmouth lost close one on road the other night. Missed some FTs late and Manhattan Jaspers edged them out with late run. Lot of 2 loss teams now, should be exciting conference race.

      • Macdog said, on January 22, 2016 at 7:43 pm

        Yep, MU took a 2-point lead late but the guy who scored flexed his muscles right in front of a Manhattan player who did not take kindly to that and the bench did some weightlifting act. Manhattan then scored the last nine points of the game to win it.

  30. zumiee said, on January 22, 2016 at 7:59 pm

    Indiana’s trying to run with the Warriors.
    Uh….good luck with that….

    • djloo27 said, on January 22, 2016 at 8:13 pm

      “He can score the basketball”
      Is that the dumbest expression ever?

  31. xoot said, on January 22, 2016 at 8:07 pm

    Well that was a helluva three pointer for Curry to end the quarter on.

    • xoot said, on January 22, 2016 at 8:08 pm

      The crowd in Oakland must’ve gone wild

  32. djloo27 said, on January 22, 2016 at 8:14 pm

    “He can score the basketball”
    Is that the dumbest expression ever?

    • zumiee said, on January 22, 2016 at 8:41 pm


    • xoot said, on January 22, 2016 at 8:45 pm

      I once heard a college football radio color man explain that “the ball is oblong.” so it tends to bounce in unpredictable ways

      • xoot said, on January 22, 2016 at 8:47 pm

        I mean, a cliche would’ve been better

  33. djloo27 said, on January 22, 2016 at 8:15 pm

    Cespy’s a fuckin’ Met…

    • willedav said, on January 22, 2016 at 8:35 pm

      NY fans back behind them. what took them so long to do this? nats reports of 5/100 scare Wilpons into it?
      Wonder if they will have the money to pay the pitching staff.

  34. xoot said, on January 22, 2016 at 8:43 pm

    Holey sheet the second quarter ends the same way

  35. willedav said, on January 22, 2016 at 8:44 pm

    ah that is f-ing funny. Steph hit long 3 with 30 seconds left then banks one in from half court at buzzer, and this one counts.

  36. unca_chuck said, on January 22, 2016 at 8:44 pm

    That one counted! Steph is insane.

  37. willedav said, on January 22, 2016 at 9:28 pm

    wow another end of the quarter wild basket.
    Indiana is tough. If Ellis hadn’t been in such early foul trouble might be different game.

  38. zumiee said, on January 22, 2016 at 11:02 pm

    The Kings have played well the last couple of weeks, and have moved into the #8 spot for the moment.

  39. unca_chuck said, on January 23, 2016 at 7:54 am

    Used to be the East would put under-.500 teams into the playoffs. I heard that the Warriors and Kings have never been in the payoffs at the same time. Short history, but still.

    the prolate spheroid’s erratic trajectory sounds better, Xoot?

    • djloo27 said, on January 23, 2016 at 9:33 am


    • xoot said, on January 23, 2016 at 7:52 pm

      Well if that’s the wiki bounces. Bad commentary’s bad commentary.

  40. blade3colorado said, on January 23, 2016 at 12:34 pm

    Good Brisbee story about Jonathan Sanchez’s comeback. Hope he has success.


  41. Bozo said, on January 23, 2016 at 2:11 pm

    I agree with ya about Sanchez, Blade. I hope he does well.
    Timmy will be doing his showcasing in February and I really wish him success as well.

  42. zumiee said, on January 23, 2016 at 9:48 pm

    Australian baseball on the MLB Network. The Blue Sox vs. the Aces. Those are two solid team nicknames.

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