THE San Francisco Giants Blog

Pa(Gone) Not Soon Enough

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on March 10, 2016
snarkk said, on March 9, 2016 at 8:56 pm (Edit)

I have concerns re Pagan in LF. The guy did not look good out there a couple of times– and his throws looked like they came off a wet noodle arm. As said above, time to get Arroyo some reps in LF down in AAA…

_____________________

Snarkk’s critical assessment is more valuable, to me, than any of the blather coming out of camp/Kruk about this guy’s “positive attitude” during his “contract year.”

Look, this isn’t some young buck learning a new position who is going through some growing pains. Pagan is done. We all saw it last year and Snarkk has now confirmed it with his on-field scouting report that he did while also powering down tacos AND keeping a watchful eye on a set of double D’s that were on the verge of mayhem. Absolute, unbridled mayhem…..

That is some sweet, sweet multi tasking……

What sucks is that we probably won’t see him go until well into the season UNLESS he gets hurt. Which is actually likely. But Bochy and Sabean have so much respect for this dude, combined with probably an underlying fear of what he might do to them if they piss him off, that we will probably get a healthy dose of Pagan for a good part of 2016. Probably the same dose of Rowand we were served on the back end of his bad deal.

 

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  1. willedav said, on March 10, 2016 at 7:26 am

    It’s a little early even in ST to make definitive statements. Pagan I’m not counting on to do much anyway and imagine mgmt. will give him at least as much rope as MacG got last year. Giants owe him $10 mil, he’s untradeable til he shows he has something left, yada yada. If he winds up 5th OF Giants have options.

    Arroyo is an IF and I’m sure he’s slated to be one full time; supposedly in AA.
    Caught some of Radnich and Krueger talking to Wotus yesterday morning, and Wotus said Arroyo is doing some work at 3b but he doesn’t want to do anything at 2b with the kid. Given that, I doubt LF is on radar–not that the kid couldn’t do it, it’s just way more to put on his plate at this point in his career.

    It’s also pretty early in Arroyo’s career…let’s see how he progresses up the chain.

    • chipower9 said, on March 10, 2016 at 8:49 am

      Excellent post WillieD. I concur on all points…especially “a little early in ST to make definitive statements,” and also your synopsis of Arroyo (It’s pretty early in Arroyo’s career…let’s see how he progresses up the chain).

  2. Lurker John said, on March 10, 2016 at 7:41 am

    “Look, this isn’t some young buck learning a new position who is going through some growing pains. Pagan is done. We all saw it last year and Snarkk has now confirmed it with his on-field scouting report that he did while also powering down tacos AND keeping a watchful eye on a set of double D’s that were on the verge of mayhem.”

    HAHAHAHAHA! Snarkk, my man!

    Not having seen Pagan, I can’t speak directly to his situation, but like Flav said above, if he looks anything like he did last year, he’s el finito. Like I said yesterday, I’m down with giving Arroyo a full chance to become a left fielder. I know he’s not fast, but neither is Alex Gordon and he converted from third to becoming a GG LF. A smart guy who understands angles and is good at reading the ball off the bat doesn’t have to be a burner to field the position and field it well. That and he looks to have big-time bat. Otherwise where are you going to put this kid? I’d hate to lose him because the IF looks to be locked up for years.

    • chipower9 said, on March 10, 2016 at 8:52 am

      There is no guarantee Duffy will continue the way he did last year. I LOVE what the kid did last year, and let’s hope he continues to kick some ass, but if something does happen to one of the IFer, Arroyo may be the guy to step in (I say “may” as I agree with WillieD’s post about let’s see how Arroyo progresses up the chain. I mean the kid has all of TWO seasons in the minors, and nothing above high-A San Jose.

  3. zumiee said, on March 10, 2016 at 7:45 am

    Former #1 pick Stratton gets the start today. This would be a nice time for him to look #1 pick-ish.

  4. zumiee said, on March 10, 2016 at 7:50 am

    Our expectations for Pagan are very low.
    Maybe he’ll surprise us a little. I’m saying that with not much conviction.

  5. dirtnrocksnomo said, on March 10, 2016 at 7:55 am

    I’m not the biggest Pagan fan but when he came back healthy in Aug – Oct he was able to put the ball in play over 150 at bats with decent OBP so I’m not ready to give him the Rowand dustbin status. Is he going to make it through the season healthy? Not likely but he can be a key contributor with regular days off. At least with Banks, Mac, Parker and possible Arroyo the club has something beyond Blanco in house for once.

  6. alleykat69 said, on March 10, 2016 at 8:30 am

    Kid is only 20,so their gonna give him plenty AB’s everyday probably at Richmond then a quick advance to Sac if he’s raking, so no rush yet.Just don’t see him as a LF though,more as a 3B maybe 2B but with Panik&Duffy it will be interesting what they decide to do down the line. Duff could be the trade guy first.

    • chipower9 said, on March 10, 2016 at 8:54 am

      Agree….I think he starts off in Richmond, with a potential call to Sac. Hell, he may even get his cup of coffee this year.

  7. unca_chuck said, on March 10, 2016 at 8:37 am

    Yeah, Im not holding out hope that we get the 2012 Pagan, but I also think he’ll be decent. Till he goes down of course. I don’t think this plays out like Rowand as we have more options now. Who was Rowand’s backup? The original Bowker gang leader, John Bowker? Ford?

    White shark will be in there soon enough. With Parker and Big Mac behind him.

    • Flavor said, on March 10, 2016 at 8:47 am

      Chuck, heard Niners asked for a 2nd, Denver countered with a 3rd for Kaep. I’ve never been so excited to not have a QB

      • chipower9 said, on March 10, 2016 at 8:54 am

        I agree, Flav! Take that fucking 3rd round pick YESTERDAY!

  8. unca_chuck said, on March 10, 2016 at 8:57 am

    Careful what you wish for. If we don’t draft Goff and lose Kappy, we are looing at 4 years of suck. It maybe the case anyway, but Gabbert is just about what his record is. 8-27 as a starter.

    Curious to me is the fact that the defending champs are interested in him, and we are doing all we can to jettison him. Which front office has the better track record?

    • chipower9 said, on March 10, 2016 at 9:03 am

      I don’t give a fuck Charlie. Jettison Kap and deal with it, either via the draft or free agency.

  9. chipower9 said, on March 10, 2016 at 9:02 am

    On a separate note, I heard this morning about a piece Tim Keown wrote about Bryce Harper. I have never been a big Harper fan, but do appreciate his skills. If the dude was rocking the Orange and Black…I would LOVE HIM!

    Anyway, he made a point that goes against the grain of baseball standards in regards to players being able to show a little pizazz, without fear of getting drilled. Here is an excerpt from the article on this point:

    “Baseball’s tired,” he says. “It’s a tired sport, because you can’t express yourself. You can’t do what people in other sports do. I’m not saying baseball is, you know, boring or anything like that, but it’s the excitement of the young guys who are coming into the game now who have flair. If that’s Matt Harvey or Jacob deGrom or Manny Machado or Joc Pederson or Andrew McCutchen or Yasiel Puig — there’s so many guys in the game now who are so much fun.

    “Jose Fernandez is a great example. Jose Fernandez will strike you out and stare you down into the dugout and pump his fist. And if you hit a homer and pimp it? He doesn’t care. Because you got him. That’s part of the game. It’s not the old feeling — hoorah … if you pimp a homer, I’m going to hit you right in the teeth. No. If a guy pimps a homer for a game-winning shot … I mean — sorry.”

    He stops, looks around. The hell with it, he’s all in.

    “If a guy pumps his fist at me on the mound, I’m going to go, ‘Yeah, you got me. Good for you. Hopefully I get you next time.’ That’s what makes the game fun. You want kids to play the game, right? What are kids playing these days? Football, basketball. Look at those players — Steph Curry, LeBron James. It’s exciting to see those players in those sports. Cam Newton — I love the way Cam goes about it. He smiles, he laughs. It’s that flair. The dramatic.”

    The Flap Universe is teeming with knowledgeable fans who know the game, appreciate it, love it. With that, I value your opinion on this. What do you think about this?

    Personally, I think the game could benefit with a change like this. Not over the top shit, but hey, a simple bat flip or fist pump, and the other player acknowledging that they got beat on that AB, giving a tip of the cap and some respect, with the conviction “you got me this time…I will get you next time” instead of the old “your getting drilled next time asshole.” I just think it could possibly be a good change for the game.

    Anyway, I look forward to your thoughts on this Flappers.

    Here is a link to the article if you want to read the entire article. I thought it was a good read.

    http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/14935765/washington-nationals-bryce-harper-wants-change-baseball-forever

    • xoot said, on March 10, 2016 at 9:38 am

      Harper’s maturing, but not backing down. I sort of like that. Let’s see where it goes. Lincecum brought some of the same spirit, although he tempered his ferocious competitiveness with a touch of humility. Still, he upset the mossbacks and we loved it. MadBum could’ve been on Harper’s list. I still think the best comment Dave Flemming has made on a radio broadcast in his career was early last year when he noted that Bryce Harper, at that time, had never faced a mlb pitcher younger than he was. Let the young guys play.

      • chipower9 said, on March 10, 2016 at 10:18 am

        I agree…”Let the young guys play!”

    • sfsarge said, on March 10, 2016 at 12:35 pm

      I’m in full agreement on this. It’s time for these young guys coming up to breathe some more life into the game. There is certainly room for a bit of flair, (Joey Bats bat flip comes to mind) but not over the top like (Prince Fielder and his stupid bowling ball gag, which probably would have been more fun of it weren’t against our guys.) But let these guys show some emotion out there, it’s good for the game.

  10. Carstie Clausen said, on March 10, 2016 at 9:29 am

    In an ideal world Bochy and the PTB will give Pagan a bit of rope and plenty of rest. Let’s say he plays 5 of every seven games out there in the pasture. Repeated maladjusted defensive lapses, failures at the plate and bad base-running choices would quickly make him a spot starter of 2-3 games per week. If that does not pan out then he becomes a “threat” off the bench.

    Point is, Pagan’s rope should be rather short ~ even coming out of the gate. He does not need to be coddled like some newbie with a great upside or some slowly fading superstar.

  11. Flavor said, on March 10, 2016 at 10:09 am

    Regarding Harper, I definitely fall on his side on this particular issue. But I think there are enough stodgy birds like Bumgarner to light his ass up every time he sniffles a little too loud to prevent him from *changing the game* in the way he wants to change it……
    I still think the Fielder bowling pin thing was one of the greatest celebrations I’ve ever seen in sport.
    note: I just watched that again. Ok, maybe not one of the *greatest* but it was very good and I remember not having a single problem with it when it happened.

    • chipower9 said, on March 10, 2016 at 10:17 am

      Oh fuck…call me a hypocrite, but that pissed me off…initially. But after I got over it, and looked at it again, I was happy to see some exuberance in the game. I do feel we need more of that. Anyway, I really enjoyed the read by Keown (always liked him going back to the days when he wrote for the Chron), and have a bit of a newfound respect for Harper. Like I said, I always appreciated his talent, as it is undeniable.

      • wilcojoe said, on March 10, 2016 at 10:24 am

        Tim Keown went to the same high school as yours truely (Justin-Siena in Napa), although a few years before me. His son is a pretty good player on their baseball team.

  12. unca_chuck said, on March 10, 2016 at 10:26 am

    There’s exuberance then there’s the stupid ass bowling pin thing. I’m all for keeping it fun and shit, but staged deals like that are what I’d consider over the top. I think the whole beating the shit out of the game winning hit guy is stupid as well. A coupe guys had year-ending injuries in those celebrations.

    There’s a really dumb skit on Key & Peele that deals with this. It’s actually pretty funny.

    If you like the celebrations, you take the retaliations in stride then. I mean, throwing at someone’s head that looks at you cross-eyed is over the top as well, but in the end, this will come down to some kind of issue for the umps to deal with and then you open the can of retarded worms.

  13. Macdog said, on March 10, 2016 at 10:34 am

    Hey, how come we didn’t hear about Pagan leading off the 1st with a single and scoring the Giants’ first run?

  14. snarkk said, on March 10, 2016 at 10:52 am

    My thanks to Flav on kudos for scouting the other night. But, that was Pagans first game of ST. Hopefully he’ll get familiar with LF. His routes looked weird, and most troubling were a couple throws that we’re just terrible. He hit two dead bird pops, the first which fellin for a hit. His wheels looked good, as he went first to third on a double I believe, and still looked like he had above average speed. Time will tell…

  15. willedav said, on March 10, 2016 at 11:34 am

    Sorry but i’m not on Harper’s side. Baseball is not a tired sport, and when has McCutch done any over the top celebrations? Is he telling me he likes Puig? Stop right there, fool.
    One of the more annoying thing about football (pros especially) are the endless look what I did celebrations over a sack, a first down or a special teams tackle. If Harper digs jumping up and down over routine doing your job stuff, hey knock your self out. But next time Craw guns him down on a two hop grounder to SS should he give him the mutombo finger wag—don’t hit it here?
    Imo this stuff detracts from the game, not add to it.

    Side note–retired buddy of mine has been golfing with Burrell lately. Said he didn’t dig all the travel of scouting for the Giants and is engaged to be married, to a gal who’s dad is ortho surgeon.

    • sfsarge said, on March 10, 2016 at 12:43 pm

      Mutumbo finger wag would be kinda awesome. Ok, not really. I’m not saying it should go as far as NFL players with there ridiculous routines for making routine plays, but the fact is kids aren’t as interested in baseball as they are other sports. A good bat flip, or pimping a HR doesn’t take away anything from the game.

      • chipower9 said, on March 10, 2016 at 2:16 pm

        .

    • xoot said, on March 10, 2016 at 1:04 pm

      Harper’s no genius, that’s for sure. But I sort of understood his mismatched list of great young talent. Puig? Well, which Puig? The original 2013 version, or the odd effed up variations since? (Decision on Puig’s punishment for his domestic battery issues is forthcoming from mlb soon, apparently.)

    • chipower9 said, on March 10, 2016 at 2:18 pm

      WillieD – I agree whole-heartedly with Sarge here. I do NOT want any over-the-top stuff either. Some of the things that NFL players do is fucking ridiculous. But I see no harm in a casual bat-flip, or a fist-pump by a pitcher when he punches-out a hitter in a key situation, especially if they got rid of the retaliation aspect associated with these. I think some simple changes like this could improve the game. Just my opinion

  16. Macdog said, on March 10, 2016 at 12:33 pm

    I’m guessing Goose Gossage is not a Harper fan: http://tinyurl.com/hb8go6r

    • chipower9 said, on March 10, 2016 at 2:38 pm

      Hey, I respect the Goose, but I thought Bautista and Cespedes did a great job at responding to his criticism. I agree less with Gossage on those points than I do with his comment about the “nerds” running the game:

      On a separate subject, Gossage, 64, said he does not like the trend in baseball to have people who never played at the highest level running the game.

      “The game is becoming a freaking joke because of the nerds who are running it. I’ll tell you what has happened, these guys played Rotisserie baseball at Harvard or wherever the f— they went and they thought they figured the f—ing game out. They don’t know s—.”

      “It is a joke,” Gossage said. “The game is becoming a freaking joke because of the nerds who are running it.

      “I’ll tell you what has happened, these guys played rotisserie baseball at Harvard or wherever the f— they went and they thought they figured the f—ing game out. They don’t know s—.

      “A bunch of f—ing nerds running the game. You can’t slide into second base. You can’t take out the f—ing catcher because [Buster] Posey was in the wrong position and they are going to change all the rules. You can’t pitch inside anymore. I’d like to knock some of these f—ers on their ass and see how they would do against pitchers in the old days.”

      Great rant…loved it.

  17. Irish Kevin said, on March 10, 2016 at 12:53 pm

    Ah my favorite subject. The Giants keeping old guys too long. Yes Pagon has been great in the past, the thing I have noticed about Pagan is that he whines a lot more at the plate when he does not agree with the call. He use to just ask the ump about the call and then get back in the box, now he prolongs the standing outside the box while giving the ump the stank eye or out right complaining. Just STF up and get back in the box!!

    • chipower9 said, on March 10, 2016 at 2:20 pm

      I have not seen this on a regular basis, Kev. Hey, it’s the guy’s last year…I could give a fuck. I just hope he is healthy for as long as possible, and contributes the way he has in the past to our team wining another World Series title!

      Four in Seven!
      Humm Baby – Let’s Do It Again!

      • Irish Kevin said, on March 10, 2016 at 9:23 pm

        Thumbs up on that Chuck, I still think this is going to be one awesome team!!

  18. willedav said, on March 10, 2016 at 1:22 pm

    Rough week to be WCC coach–Keating of Santa Clara and Rex Walters of USF both axed.
    Walters is local legend among Asian kids, having played for club org where I used to coach then Kansas and the NBA. Saw him play many years ago in an adult tourney for Asian teams at a local HS.

    Noted hardass as a coach, and one of his former assistants, another vet of Asian club teams and a JC coach was also known for running up and down floor yelling at his players.

    Wow the Irish have erased a 14 point lead vs. Duke in second half with 2 minutes left. Fun week for b-ball.

    • willedav said, on March 10, 2016 at 1:26 pm

      wonder how Stanford AD feels about having renewed Dawkins contract; sure he’s feeling more heat after how they got smoked in first round of tourney. Just not enough talent over there to compete, same thing for Santa Clara and USF.

  19. Macdog said, on March 10, 2016 at 1:34 pm

    Rex Walters, ugh. Nets took him mid-1st round in ’93 draft, a reach pick to try and fill the shooting guard void after Drazen Petrovic’s fatal car accident. I remember Walters was incapable of hitting a shot unless he was completely wide open, and even then….

    • willedav said, on March 10, 2016 at 1:43 pm

      San Quentin Dailey played for Nets briefly too didn’t he?
      Also another SF guy Marlon Redmond from Balboa HS.

      • Macdog said, on March 10, 2016 at 1:52 pm

        Nets certainly have had their share of misfits, but Dailey wasn’t one of them.

      • Macdog said, on March 10, 2016 at 1:53 pm

        Catch any tourney hoops? Watching Duke lose, even against Notre Dame, never gets old.

  20. xoot said, on March 10, 2016 at 1:35 pm

    Panik’s having a game today. 3 for 3, two doubles a rbi and a run — in the 5th inning

    • Macdog said, on March 10, 2016 at 2:09 pm

      Good showing by Stratton, too: 3 IP, 0 R, 0 H, 2 K, 1 BB. And Pagan had another single and run scored!

  21. chipower9 said, on March 10, 2016 at 2:22 pm

    Fuck…I just got out of a looong -assed meeting. Will have to check-out the game. Panik, if he is (and stays) healthy I think is going to be a beast. I really like the kid, a lot.

  22. alleykat69 said, on March 10, 2016 at 2:49 pm

    I’ve said in the past Joe Panik is going to win a batting title, maybe a few with that compact swing and great eye! Wade Boggs type player all the way! Just stay healthy Joe,and everything will work out just fine. Kid’s a big time player..

  23. zumiee said, on March 10, 2016 at 3:21 pm

    I like Gossage, but some of his comments were kind of ridiculous. His ‘cranky old man’ act went a little over the top.

    • chipower9 said, on March 10, 2016 at 3:27 pm

      I agree, Zume…

  24. chipower9 said, on March 10, 2016 at 3:27 pm

    Tom – congrats on making it to the Salty Senorita, too! Fun place to hang and have a few pops after a game. RnR is good, too, although it can be quite noisy (music blaring and usually a big crowd). Lots of eye candy there, too, though…

  25. unca_chuck said, on March 10, 2016 at 3:34 pm

    Willie, the thing is baseball demographically is a tired sport. Average fan age is like 92 or something. It is rolling back to 50s numbers in participation by blacks. maybe even less. It’s like the whiteness of the game is coming back with a vengeance. Playing with any kind of flair and individuality is met with a bunch of ass-clowns whining about disrespect and how folks should honor the game.

    And I’m in the ‘fuck the bowling pin’ thing but a little gamesmanship isn’t a crime. No one seems to mind when a game-ending bunt erupts into a mosh pit on the infield. It’s only OK if it is at the end of the game? Getting jazzed for a home run or strike out shouldn’t evoke a missile to someone’s head, either. So I guess I’m with Harper.

    • snarkk said, on March 10, 2016 at 5:36 pm

      I’ve said that before Chuxk, totally agree. A walk off single gets a wild ass celebration– that’s fine. Solo homer in the 6th with a hand clapping or fist pump and the batter gets a ball in the rib cage in his next AB in the 8th. Huh?…

  26. snarkk said, on March 10, 2016 at 5:52 pm

    IMO Gossage is a borderline HOFer, who probably would not have gotten in has he not played a while for the Yanks. He’s in, but Lee Amith is not?…

  27. gianthead said, on March 10, 2016 at 7:52 pm

    Rex Walters was a Piedmont High grad in my old neighborhood haunts in the Jose….any more reports on Stratton? Was it as impressive as the pitching line looks?

    I am hoping Arroyo is in Richmond for most of the summer!!!!

  28. snarkk said, on March 10, 2016 at 8:06 pm

    Not sure why Romo is ripping Harper. Just let it go; strike the guy out when you play the Nats…

    • Flavor said, on March 10, 2016 at 8:32 pm

      lol, especially from one of the all time current celebrators. He walks off the mound like he just won the Super Bowl nearly every time…..

      • xoot said, on March 10, 2016 at 9:03 pm

        That’s the point. Romo’s doing exactly what Harper says he likes, including the press response.

      • chipower9 said, on March 11, 2016 at 7:09 am

        Exactly. And Romo has been doing as long, if not longer, than most out there. And I am okay with it, but it has to work both ways. If a guy takes him yard with a walk-off hit or HR, Sergio needs to tip his cap and have the attitude “hey, you got me this time, but I will get you next time.” And by “get” I don’t mean drilling the guy in the ribs or filling-up his earhole with a fastball, either.

  29. ewisco said, on March 10, 2016 at 9:37 pm

    the whole beard thing needs to go. “I’m going to be original and look just like 100 other guys”. wow. way to go.


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