THE San Francisco Giants Blog

Addressing This Mess

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on October 13, 2016

24 hours later, I am looking at this a little more rationally. Jettisoning the entire bullpen is probably not going to happen. Even though part of me still wants to see them all erased from the planet. Before we get started, here is the contract situation for everyone going forward:

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/san-francisco-giants/yearly/payroll/

Realistically, who stays and who goes? Romo, Casilla and Lopez are all coming off the books. Fun fact: That trio made a cool 21 million in 2016. Gnaw on that as you commute to work today. I will assume Evans isn’t insane and won’t bring any of these 3 back. They are all DONE as major league players. I don’t care what Casilla says or how bendy Romo’s slider can still get on occasion. All 3, ba-bye.

3 guys who will be back: That fucking lefty reliever, Kontos, Strickland. They are all arb eligible through 2019 (at least), they all have good stuff, they have all been successful at different points in the season. And we paid up the ass for TFLR so as ant-small as he usually comes up, he ain’t going anywhere. And maybe Strickland takes some anti-stupid pills this off season. He dumb.

Law: Obviously stays, will probably be the 8th inning set up guy.

Okert, Osich and Gearrin: I could see the first 2 guys coming back, not the 3rd. The first 2 are young, controllable with great stuff. That has a place in anyone’s bullpen. Gearrin was never one of “my guys” and I hope he’s gone.

That leaves 2 spots, at least, for Evans to go both fists into the free agent market for a closer and another stud set up guy. He cannot half ass his way through this. Or it will be his full ass having to answer to the fan base. Someone needs to be held accountable for this absolutely shitly constructed bullpen and I put that squarely on Evans and Sabean. They have to fix this.

Matt Cain makes 40 mill over the next 2 seasons if that does anything for ya. If you go back and look at the contracts Timmy and Cain got and look at their production post-deal you can see clearly how much more productive Barry Zito was > both of them during his time here…..

 

 

Advertisements

172 Responses

Subscribe to comments with RSS.

  1. zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:15 am

    Great post, BF, but Cain is $21 million in ’17 and $7.5 million buyout in ’18. The Giants should just part ways right now with him, but that’s not the Giants way. Releasing Rowand early got Mr. Bow-tie in trouble with the other owners, and they ousted the Bow-tie. The Giants owners are very against contract-eating. The Giants owners aren’t exactly baseball geniuses. They always want “their money’s worth” from the player.

    • zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:18 am

      I’ll be quite surprised if Cain doesn’t start next season in the rotation. Bochy knows the drill with the owners.

  2. Lurker John said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:25 am

    That’s a good link you found there. The good news, as you pointed out, is the three worst offenders are gone, no muss, no fuss for Evans or us. I would like to see Gearrin depart as well. He was great early, but horribly unreliable in the entire second half, when he was even in there at all. So, assuming a very good closer is signed, my question is, do we trust the rest of what’s left to do the job? I’m not so sure I do.

    I still hold out hope for Osich and Okert has been highly regarded in the minors, so he likely gets his chance, maybe in the Lopez role at some point. I don’t know if Blach is pegged as a starter or reliever moving forward, but I’m assuming starter. He’s an unknown but an interesting one.

    Strickland concerns me because he seems to pick the worst times to implode. I don’t like even thinking of him as a closer and setup makes me nervous too. Smith is what everyone knows he is at this point, a gas can. He’s wrestled away Strickland’s title in that regard.

    The biggest shocker for me on that list is how much more every other starter is making compared to Bum (outside of Moore). He’s a bigger man that me, because I’m pretty sure I’d be insisting on a restructured contract. He shouldn’t have to, the Giants should just do it, but that’s a glaring disparity. Unless Cain undergoes some miracle transformation, he’ll be the gift that just keeps on giving. Maybe he could be worked into the pen somehow.

    I think Casilla will end up on another team, Javy should hang up his spikes and Romo, who knows? I still want to know what the fuck he thinks is so funny in the middle of an epic collapse.

  3. willedav said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:39 am

    I think the key is what you think of Strick. Is there potential as set up guy/closer when closer needs a day? Can he perfect the slider and locate it down and away, or at least down enough, in the zone to make it an effective out pitch?

    Or is this all there is, what you see right now which is fastball and nothing? Brisbee made this argument month or two ago, that the numbers actually look pretty good (like Osich) but reality of watching the guy tells you different.
    A top end closer is gonna eat up most of $20 mil from Casilla Lopez Romo, and is gonna want a couple years deal. I think getting 2 good guys unlikely unless you dump Strick off somewhere.

  4. snarkk said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:52 am

    Pretty much agree with BF on all that. Cain should just get a handshake and the boot. That contract has been hideous. Closer, yeah tip priority. Next is a damn power bat OFer. Absolutely necessary, and right handed. If Blanco comes back, I may start watching the A’s…

  5. mrsprtdude said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:59 am

    Great thread Craig. Baggs article made me calm down a bit too. FYI for all. Cain has a 7.5 Mil buyout in 18, so I think Giants on the hook for $27.5M not $40. Someone could check that:) Every team needs a 6th-7th inning guy and Strick can do it. Closing is a mentality and he doesn’t have it.
    Open to thoughts…but why didn’t we trade Panic again? If we had Miller or melancon we would be favorites to win the whole thing again. A lock down stud means romo an 8th inning guy, Casilla would have pitched better, the others never see the 9th. Why is everyone so in love with this guy for his .225 ave? I see so much hate to belt but none to panic. I like him, but just not that much…

    • willedav said, on October 13, 2016 at 8:24 am

      what I read, from either Schulman or Shea and also from Brisbee was that they were shorthanded already and going with replacement guys on IF. Plus Specs was hurt then Pena got hurt too, so now you had Green in there and Giants likely worried about downgrade to the defense. Remember too Arroyo didn’t have great numbers in AA ball either.

      My guess is Evans said in reply to Yanks, “No on him, but there is a guy we like a lot who is out of options…”

    • gianthead said, on October 13, 2016 at 8:24 am

      Sportsdude, Panik had a terrible concussion and weeks of feeling headaches and dizziness. We should be happy he played as well as he did in the playoffs. Panik is going to be back 100% next year and I predict he will be hitting in the .300 range if the rest of the lineup is fixed.

    • zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 8:28 am

      Pivotal season next season for Panik. He needs to stay healthy and put together a solid season.

      • willedav said, on October 13, 2016 at 8:58 am

        not my cup of tea vs.Scutaro typical 2 hole move the runner over guy. In love with his power stroke, and hitting ball in the air not always a great idea at night games at ATT. Like a lot of Giants he’s a gap hitter and not dead pull guy so HRs will be limited. And he wasn’t hitting before the concussion, so that’s not a cogent argument. Right or wrong, Bochy platooned him vs. LHPs end of the year.

        Doesn’t K a lot but doesn’t walk much either, so success is dependent on BABIP which can fluctuate wildly. also a lot of GIDPs. Meh.

    • chipower9 said, on October 13, 2016 at 10:44 am

      Yes. On the hook for about 20 mil next year, and a 7.5 mil buyout in 18.

  6. gianthead said, on October 13, 2016 at 8:28 am

    No closer in baseball makes $20 mill. I also dont think one of these top line closers is only taking a 2 year deal. 3 years for $15 mill a year for one of Jansen, Melancon or Chapman could be ballpark and may be enougj to scare off other teams spending that much.

    If I recall, Giants have about $132 mill obligated for next year.

    • willedav said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:03 am

      sobering thought. $45 mil for a closer (wonder what James would say to that?) at what SF has already committed unlikely to leave bean counters room to pay for a big bat OF. If Cespedes opts out, he’d want even more than that for 3 yrs, right?

  7. blade3colorado said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:15 am

    GH, read what Willie just wrote (8:58am) . . . In effect, this is how I recall Panic as well – he wasn’t hitting before the concussion, so your argument doesn’t wash. Consequently, I stand by what I said previously – do or die for him next season. I want to see some semblance of the player he was when he first came up.

    Also, I think it would be ludicrous for the Giants to pay $15 million a year for a closer. I’ll believe it when I see it. Most teams do it the old fashioned way, i.e., an inhouse reliever or converted starter or signing someone in the next tier (behind the Millers, Chapmans, etc.). Sorry, I just don’t see the Giants spending $45 million/3 year closer contract. Also, remember that TV money is drying up – as I have indicated numerous times before, e.g., see ESPN’s subscription totals . . . Down a whopping 10-13 million since 2013 and people are still cutting the cord exponentially. All of the aforementioned is reflected in Disney’s (owners of ESPN) stock price of $90.78, down approximately 31% in the last year.

    • zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:21 am

      The Dodgers had some success with Blanton being converted into a reliever. Maybe some of the less-than-thrilling starters in the Giants’ farm system could be experimented with as relievers. Every idea possible should be on the table regarding the Giants bullpen for next season.

      • zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:25 am

        I’m guessing the Giants start the season with Cain in the rotation (that’s depressing) and Blach as a bullpen piece. After Cain predictably craters and goes on the DL, Blach can then take his rightful place as a Giants starter. Then, as many have mentioned, the Giants will have a very good starting rotation, 1 through 5.

      • unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:25 am

        Peavy and Can and pray for an earthquake to swallow the stadium.

      • blade3colorado said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:32 am

        I actually think we have in-house candidates, which could be slotted into the closer role, including . . . wait for it . . . Strickland. lulz

        By the by, I indicated that I searched far and wide for articles about our last game with the Cubs, particularly, those critical of Bochy. I couldn’t find any column which found fault with Bochy, besides this Fan Graphs column by David Cameron. I felt the piece was insigtful, fair, and actually gave quite a bit of praise to “that fucking left handed reliever,” otherwise known as Will Smith.

        http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-one-way-ill-second-guess-bruce-bochy/

  8. unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:24 am

    That’s the rub. We aren’t going to get the pieces we need by dumpster diving in the FA market. We will need to trade folks to get top-line players. At least position players. I like Panik, and I think he’ll have a great season next year. And I surely don’t think Specs will be near as good as Panik in the long run. Trading Belt is a no-win situation in my head. He’ll do better wherever he goes, and we likely won’t get his defense.

    So who do we trade? Pence? He’s been an injury magnet lately, but he could be a piece for a young team looking for his brand of energy. Back to Houston? No one wants to trade pitching, so that leaves us with few options. I mean the FA OF market is 50 shades of (Jon) Jay.

  9. unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:29 am

    Relievers are plentiful though.

  10. chipower9 said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:44 am

    Strickland is under team control next year (first year of AE is 2018). Osich is not AE until 2019.

    I am not high on Strickland, but I doubt he is going anywhere. If he makes the team next year, Rags and staff need to work with him on his mental make-up, and more importantly, a alternate pitch that he can throw for strikes, REGULARLY.

    I know many of you are down on Osich, but go back and look at the splits I posted yesterday. He is NASTY against lefties. IMO, he should be “Lopez/the lefty specialist” going forward.

    Kontos and Smith are AE for the next three years. I doubt they are going anywhere, although it would not break my heart to see Kontos gone.

    I agree, Romo, CasillaLater, and Lopez should be GONE.

    So, if you have a 12 man staff (seven bullpen arms), the bullpen possibly looks something like this (considering existing guys):

    Smith – LHP
    Osich – LHP
    Kontos – RHP
    Strickland – RHP
    O- RHP
    Law – RHP
    CLOSER – to be acquired

    Again, it would not break my heart to seek Kontos and Strickland gone, as long as they are replaced with better/more consistent pieces.

    Cain may be that long-relief/spot starter guy, but I bet he gets a shot out of ST to see what he has as a starter. If Cain makes the team as the long guy, Suarez is Sactown bound.

    Hard to believe Blach will not get a spot…I like him as the 5th starter.

    • zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:47 am

      Blach should be a starter from the get-go next season, but that Cain contract is the elephant in the room. I predict they give Cain about 5 losses before they DL him.

      • zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:49 am

        In Spring Training we’re going to hear about how healthy Cain is finally feeling, and how he’s solved some mechanical issues, blah, blah, blah. Same stuff we heard last Spring Training.

      • chipower9 said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:50 am

        Unfortunately, I think you are right.

    • blade3colorado said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:54 am

      I like Osich too. He has nasty stuff, where I have indicated he could go beyond the Lopez lefty role and actually close. This is how I see it shaking out (and part of my reasoning is based upon the Cameron article). I think Smith will be given an opportunity to close. We paid an arm and a leg to acquire him and I think Bochy will be convinced by the Brass to give him an opportunity. Similarly, I see Strickland and Osich being given an opportunity too. Not saying they wont attempt to acquire a closer, but a Plan B (or A) will be in house. Book it.

      • chipower9 said, on October 13, 2016 at 10:38 am

        The only reason I do not like Osich as anything other than a lefty-specialist, is that his splits against RH batters is hideous. He is fucking lights-out against lefties, and sucks balls against righties.

  11. chipower9 said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:51 am

    I forgot about Okert. I think he makes the club and would take the spot in which I had Suarez. Suarez is probably the short guy out and ends up in Sacto.

  12. chipower9 said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:53 am

    If Cain does not miraculously revert to his old “Horse” self (and I am not holding my fucking breath), then the team needs to consider a buy-out of that POS contract.

  13. unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 10:31 am

    Will Smith as closer? He’s a lefty, so I don’t think that’ll happen, but certainly Osich, Okert, Kontos, and Stricknyne will likely be here next year. Gearrin looked great from the outset but faded badly.

    We need to find a closer from the outside. None of these guys seem to have the balls. Law would be my best guess for an inside guy. Cain? I’d rather have Suarez as the long guy.

    • chipower9 said, on October 13, 2016 at 10:42 am

      He would not be the first. There have been a handful of damned-good/great lefties closers. To name a few:

      Franco, Plesac, Myers, and Wagner…

    • unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 11:54 am

      Handful being the key term. Will Smith does NOT strike me as being anywhere near their galaxy.

      • chipower9 said, on October 13, 2016 at 1:37 pm

        Charlie – I was simply answering to your “Will Smith as closer? He’s a lefty, so I don’t think that’ll happen..” comment. Point being, there are lefties who have flourished as closers. Smith has a mix of pitches, why not him? Fuck, he has as good a chance as damned near anyone on our club. But I want to see us go out and get a real closer via free agency. There are a few out there.

  14. unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 10:32 am

    If Stricknyne can keep his slider near the zone, he’s fine. He can be Robb Nen. Wish his FB had more movement tho.

  15. chipower9 said, on October 13, 2016 at 10:52 am

    With about 50 mil coming off the books Peavy – 15, Pagan – 11.5, Romo – 9, Lopez – 5 , Blanco – 3.9, Casilla – 6.5) the team should be fine on filling their needs.

    The bullpen spots, outside of going outside for a bonafide closer will be filled internally. Peavy’s spot goes to Blach. Pagan and Blanco’s spots are probably taken by Williamson and Parker.

    Point is that the only positions they must fill from outside is:
    1) closer
    2) RH OF power bat
    3) maybe another very good bullpen arm

    So, even if you go 20 mil per year each on a closer and bat, that still leaves wiggle room for another bullpen arm, and the slight bumps the AE guys will get. Salary actually went DOWN a couple of mil last year as opposed to 2015, so I am sure there is some flexibility in making it all work

    Evans, Sabean, Tidrow, etc. just need to find the pieces and make it happen!

    • willedav said, on October 13, 2016 at 11:16 am

      one more year of bargain $$ for Belt and Craw, then both go to $15 mil+. Samrdz gets $10 mil more this year, Span $6mil. Any couple year + deals will impact soon. Bum possible upgrade situation plus Cueto future (whether he opts in at $21mil or out) to think about too.
      I just don’t see Evans dropping all that $$$ getting a bat a closer and a set up guy unless he dumps off someone or moves Belt to the OF and has to find a C too.

      Giants sure are complicated.

      • chipower9 said, on October 13, 2016 at 1:58 pm

        Good points, WillieD. I had not taken into consideration the future contracts of Belt and Craw, etc.

  16. Flavor said, on October 13, 2016 at 11:14 am

    Andrew Baggarly ‏@extrabaggs 59s60 seconds ago
    Giants are going to make changes at first base and third base coaches, Evans said.

  17. Flavor said, on October 13, 2016 at 11:15 am

    Andrew Baggarly ‏@extrabaggs 2m2 minutes ago
    Bobby Evans: We’ll exhaust all options to make sure “no ninth inning goes unstaffed.”

    • dirtnrocksnomo said, on October 13, 2016 at 11:51 am

      I thought that was a strange line. Then again, the fans have been getting the deep dicking in the 9th all season so…

    • chipower9 said, on October 13, 2016 at 1:38 pm

      Did he have anything to say about our inept offense (other than offering a Parker or Williamson)? Fuck that…those guys are not the fucking answer for a starting LFer next year, IMO. I like those guys but they do not fit the bill of what this club needs.

  18. Flavor said, on October 13, 2016 at 11:24 am

    Joe Hughes ‏@VegasJoe680 3m3 minutes ago
    #SFGiants GM says not to expect a full bullpen overall. Expects for the young core of guys to be key going forward.

  19. Flavor said, on October 13, 2016 at 11:41 am

    Andrew BaggarlyVerified account
    ‏@extrabaggs
    Baer: “We want to make Madison a Giant for a long, long time, beyond his current contract.” Club holds options thru 2019.

    • zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 12:01 pm

      Sounds like a new contract for Bum is in the works. That’s very good news. Don’t wait too long on that. Get him locked up.

      • Flavor said, on October 13, 2016 at 12:02 pm

        Loo might literally jizz himself if this happens.

      • chipower9 said, on October 13, 2016 at 1:40 pm

        He is already locked-up for a the next three…but I would be down with tearing that one up and extending the contract to truly make him a “Giant for life.”

  20. Flavor said, on October 13, 2016 at 11:42 am

    Andrew BaggarlyVerified account
    ‏@extrabaggs
    Evans, asked about Matt Cain, says club has six viable starters and “we’ll let it play out.”

    • zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 11:59 am

      Calling Cain a “viable starter” is the first LOL of the off-season.

  21. Flavor said, on October 13, 2016 at 11:43 am

    Andrew Baggarly ‏@extrabaggs 15m15 minutes ago
    Evans on LF vacancy: Williamson, Parker have impressed and both project to hit for more power than Adam Duvall, who was an All-Star with CIN

    • zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 11:58 am

      They were so impressed with Parker, they used Blanco in the playoffs. That, I will never understand.

  22. dirtnrocksnomo said, on October 13, 2016 at 11:48 am

    I listened to some of the press conference and while it pains me to say it, I more or less agree with Booby’s responses. Casilla, Lopez and Romo are gone. Get a legit closer and the rest of the bullpen falls into place. I’m not a big Parker fan and think Williamson will win out but a platoon in LF will work until the trade deadline. I’ll miss Kelly’s regal presence but someone on the staff has to get tossed under the bus and it isn’t going to be Bochy.

  23. dirtnrocksnomo said, on October 13, 2016 at 11:54 am

    No talk about Big Al? I’d like to see him stay with the club in ’17.

    • unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 12:04 pm

      I like him as the long guy/spot starter. Cain should take the long walk. Time to get a little cut-throat with these guys.

  24. zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 11:56 am

    We all love Cain, his contribution to this team has been monumental; but the fastball is slower now, and doesn’t have the movement it used to have, which was so key to his success. Opponents are now very comfortable batting against him. They can just sit on that fastball, and get both cheeks into the swing. His off-speed stuff was never that great, and really depended on his fastball.

    • Flavor said, on October 13, 2016 at 12:02 pm

      Andrew Baggarly ‏@extrabaggs 8s9 seconds ago
      Evans said Cain could be long man but “he’ll come to spring training expecting every opportunity to compete to start, and he deserves that.”

  25. unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 12:02 pm

    Smith as closer is not going to happen. Beyond the fact that he’s a lefty, he sucked as whatever the hell he was this year. 9 walks in 18 innings here? 18 walks in 40 innings for 2016? God help us if he closes. Bochy brought in Lopez before him the other day. That means something.

    Law looks to be the only current guy with the mentality to do it in-house. This is somewhere where I hope they go outside the org.

    • chipower9 said, on October 13, 2016 at 1:46 pm

      Lopez got the call over Smith because of match-up numbers. Rizzo was like 4 for 11 with a homer and a couple of doubles against Smith (this was detailed in the Baggs’ piece on the last thread). So yeah, it means the numbers of Smith against Rizzo sucks balls, and Bochy went to Lopez.

  26. dirtnrocksnomo said, on October 13, 2016 at 12:08 pm

    Bochy expects a 6 out save now and then so I don’t see Chapman coming to SF. Law has good stuff but was not effective on the tail end of back to back appearances and has had arms issues. If anything they’ll be cautious with him. Assuming they’re all still around, I would slot them by inning this way
    6. Strickland
    7. Smith
    8. Law
    9. FNG (F-ing New Guy)

    Kontos, Okert and Osich are the situational guys.

  27. unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 12:32 pm

    If we had Chapman, Bochy wouldn’t use him for 6-out saves.

  28. unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 12:33 pm

    Zumie, that I’l never understand. Even Gorkys would be better than Blanco. Fuck the lefty righty thing.

    • dirtnrocksnomo said, on October 13, 2016 at 12:42 pm

      We’re going to get all the Gorky we can handle next year.

  29. dirtnrocksnomo said, on October 13, 2016 at 12:41 pm

    With Bumgarner, Cueto, Moore & Samardzija fronting the rotation I’m fine with Cain/Blach/Suarez figuring out the last spot. I’m staying on the Cain train. If the club eats the balance of the contract its not like they’re going to spend it in on the other end. His velocity is still there for the most part. He hasn’t fallen into Lincecum/Zito speeds yet. Zito’s deal as better value is a sobering thought though.

  30. Flavor said, on October 13, 2016 at 2:06 pm

    has he learned fucking anything about early celebrating?
    Scott Miller ‏@ScottMillerBbl 1h1 hour ago
    Dusty on Game 5: “Tell you the truth, I got up this AM, said my prayers like I always do, had a cup of coffee & started packing for Chicago”

  31. Flavor said, on October 13, 2016 at 2:20 pm

    John Shea ‏@JohnSheaHey 10m10 minutes ago
    Odds were with Giants. In postseason history, teams with at least a 3-run lead heading to 9th were 824-3, all three losses coming in ’86.

    • zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 3:08 pm

      Yeah, it’s pretty bad when you’re matching the “ball goes between Buckner’s legs” inning.

  32. gianthead said, on October 13, 2016 at 3:31 pm

    Blade and the other anyi-Panik crew, correct me if I am wrong, didnt Panik have a bad back at the end of last year that was still nagging him in the spring. And didn’t he have some groin issues before the concussion?

    I think he was not in 100% health for really the whole year. I just dont think he can be ragged on as a young cheap hitter who was actually our starting 2b as a rookie on a year that won a World Series. And to say he is injury prone when he has had only 3 big league season is myopic. One thing is when you are paying Pagan $10 mill a year vs. someone making barely anything to be griping about proneness to injury. Panik is going to have a long history in this game.

  33. gianthead said, on October 13, 2016 at 3:41 pm

    Didnt get a chance to finish the earlier thought, wife and I saw matinee of Girl on a Train, I figured out the “mystery half way through.” Save some money and wait to see it.

    But I think if you are going to land either Chapman, Jansen or Melancon, you are going to be competing with 3 of the freest spending teams in the NL. $15 mill for 3 years is going to be the floor if we are lucky for one of those three.

    So add that to our existing payroll obligations, payroll will then be at $147 mill. I think that gives us room for a $25 mill a year slugger ($172 mill) and the small add ons for arb eligible guys, might get payroll to $180 mill, which I am hoping is ballpark numbers for next year. Pagan as 4th OF? 5 mill max…or hit the road jack.

    • gianthead said, on October 13, 2016 at 3:44 pm

      I was also going to throw out the prediction that they wrap uo Mad Bum this off-season…10 year extension:) $250 mill???

    • unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 3:53 pm

      There’s rewarding him, then there’s that. He’s already lost velocity. What will he be in 3 years? 5 years? 7? Cain II? Cain II x 10?

      • gianthead said, on October 13, 2016 at 4:15 pm

        No way is taking less than Greinke Chuck and the team needs to compensate him for the generous under market deal he gave the team. So if it is over $206 million, isnt going to $250 mill not really that much of a leap??? If it is 8 years, still going to be approaching $250 mill…no one thought Cain’s deal was bad at that time…

      • djloo27 said, on October 13, 2016 at 4:28 pm

        I ripped Cain’s deal from day one…

  34. gianthead said, on October 13, 2016 at 3:50 pm

    Greinke got $206 mill for 6 years??? That is about $34 mill a year. So that is the minimum for extension. If we get him to take less per year on the level of almost $10 mill less per year, I would be super happy then to give him a 10 year $250 mill deal that would give him the biggest contract for a pitcher in baseball.

    • zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 4:00 pm

      Yeah, some of the payment is a thank-you for previous seasons, and I don’t have a problem with that.

  35. unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 4:06 pm

    Noooooooooo. He’s been a stud, but no one is worth a 10 year deal.

    I feel for the poor guy only making ~$10 mill this year.

    • djloo27 said, on October 13, 2016 at 4:44 pm

      I’d go 6/150 for Bum on an immediate tear-up of his present swindle. A well deserved reward that they’re not obligated to give…

      • Flavor said, on October 13, 2016 at 5:24 pm

        I would do that too. I don’t want to go any more than 6 more years with this dude and if they add 6 on to the current deal, that could be a big problem down the road.

  36. gianthead said, on October 13, 2016 at 4:11 pm

    So it’s official…Kelly and Hayes booted…forst shot at Bochy????

    Giants fire Roberto Kelly, Bill Hayes
    http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/10/13/giants-fire-coaches-roberto-kelly-bill-hayes/

    • pawliekokonuts said, on October 13, 2016 at 4:13 pm

      good riddance to both….but they didn’t hobble our ‘pen. No, keep Rags.

    • djloo27 said, on October 13, 2016 at 4:35 pm

      Hayes was really good at patting guys on the ass.
      Tough to replace…

  37. pawliekokonuts said, on October 13, 2016 at 4:12 pm

    I’d be an awful GM. I can’t follow all this money talk. Love unca_chuck’s 9:25. Good post, Magnus.

  38. pawliekokonuts said, on October 13, 2016 at 4:14 pm

    The dental lady said I had good dental hygiene. First such comment in my whole life. It’s a straight line for a million zingers I will skip.

  39. pawliekokonuts said, on October 13, 2016 at 4:17 pm

    Regarding Loo’s comment about staying up till 2 am nights next year. I get that. I feel jilted on our late-night investment. But, yes, we have indeed had some golden dividends. 3 to be exact.

    • djloo27 said, on October 13, 2016 at 6:09 pm

  40. wilcojoe said, on October 13, 2016 at 4:34 pm

    We knew Kelly was a goner. As for Billy Hayes, wasn’t his previous position that of the guy who answers the phone in the bullpen? I mean first base coach was like skipping a couple rungs on the baseball coaching ladder. I always figured he was probably a big drunk. He may have even taken over Flan’s role of Bochy’s post game drinking buddy. My guess is he ended up leaving too many particles of cork in the wine bottle. If you can’t open a bottle of wine properly, you have no business coaching first base.

    • Gregory Petersen (@g_e_petersen) said, on October 13, 2016 at 6:39 pm

      So happy to hear Kelly is gone. I still remember watching a series in Colorado 4-5 years ago when he was coaching first base still. He was absent for some reason for game one. Then game 2, Kelly was back, the PA announcer introduced the Giants base coaches and I guess still had the list from game one and announced Kelly’s stand in (I forget who it was), and RK standing in the 1st base coaching box has an absolute shit fit. He was throwing up his arms and yelling up at the announcer and reminded me of a 2 years olds temper tantrum. Just felt like he was a self absorbed douche since then.

  41. wilcojoe said, on October 13, 2016 at 6:16 pm

    I just got a nice note from Larry Baer. He emails me every year, right after the season ends. He did say that fixing the bullpen was going to be a priority, so that was good to hear. The rest was a bunch of his typical PR spiel. They played their hearts out, thanked the fans for attending all the games (I hope he doesn’t know that I didn’t attend one game), typical Baer speak, nothing earth shattering.

    Anyway, I thought I would brag a little. Thought you guys would think that was pretty cool.

    • pawliekokonuts said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:06 pm

      Got it, too. I wonder how I’m on the list. Good message.

  42. zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:04 pm

    Scherzer goes full Houdini to get out of the 5th inning unscathed.

  43. zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:06 pm

    I’m going to recommend to the Nats that they score more than one run.

    • pawliekokonuts said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:07 pm

      I just texted a local avid Nats fan: don’t take a page out of our book.

  44. pawliekokonuts said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:08 pm

    If no one has already done so, welcome to Gregory.

  45. unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:12 pm

    There’s a baseball game on?

    Got the Republicans vs the Democrats on the NFL network . . .

  46. unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:15 pm

    Greg, did you go to Serra? Went to school with a Jon Peterson who had a brother named Greg . . .

  47. zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:16 pm

    Harper gets picked off firstbase. He’s putting the fun back into baseball.

  48. zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:24 pm

    Scherzer’s at 98 pitches after 6 innings. Well, that’s a concern.

  49. mrsprtdude said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:32 pm

    Thanks Blade…I wondered about smith too, and was PISSED when they brought Lopez in. If we could all see he was done all year why didn’t Bochy?
    No reply needed…too much rehashing the same shit we all agree on..

  50. Macdog said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:34 pm

    Did the Nats just hire Kelly

    • zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:37 pm

      It’s not often you see someone thrown out at home by 40 feet.

    • unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:37 pm

      lqtm. I tried to see the replay to see if the coach sent him. Shit! My bro in law live in Huntington beach just texted me. Peterson HR. Game tied.

  51. mrsprtdude said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:36 pm

    OMG i am LMAO..The Nats are gonna need a new 3rd base coach and Kelly is available. Werth just thrown out by 30 feet. Maybe the worst 3 base coach decision I have ever seen. The Dodgers benefit so thats annoying but that’s just plan funny shit

    Dumbass Harold Reynolds..”I love how Seager took his time and didn’t rush his throw” And he was serious!

  52. mrsprtdude said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:38 pm

    LOL Macdog…I’m still laughing at Werth seeing the catcher with the ball when he was half way home..”FUUUUCK” he must have been thinking……

    • unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:39 pm

      Werth should have Pete Rose’d him. Or Albert Belle’d . . .

  53. mrsprtdude said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:38 pm

    unca chuck…I live in HB too! If you visit lets go get a beer!

  54. unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:40 pm

    I’m down! Not sure when we are going down, but I’ll let you know.

  55. unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:41 pm

  56. zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:42 pm

    The Nats just brought in Javy Lopez.

  57. mrsprtdude said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:44 pm

    Watching peterson so fired up made me nostalgic for the giants of a few years ago.

    The baseball world has gone crazy. 20 game winner and NL K leader taken out after giving up his 1st run?? his 4th hit. DUSTY is and always be a moron when it comes to in game management

  58. mrsprtdude said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:44 pm

    @UC…mwrymer@gmail.com

    • djloo27 said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:49 pm

      I went to school with a George Sportsdude. Are you guys brothers?

  59. unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:44 pm

    Wasn’t his pitch count way up? I’m watching football.

    • zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:45 pm

      99 pitches.

  60. zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:49 pm

    There’s nothing quite like a LOOGY walking his one batter.

  61. unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:49 pm

    Hmmmm.

  62. Macdog said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:51 pm

    Now a 4th pitcher — where have we seen this before?

    • zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:56 pm

      Similar result.

      • Macdog said, on October 13, 2016 at 7:57 pm

        Yep.

      • Macdog said, on October 13, 2016 at 8:01 pm

        A 5th.

      • djloo27 said, on October 13, 2016 at 8:02 pm

        It’s a copycat league…

  63. Macdog said, on October 13, 2016 at 8:05 pm

    Good night Nats.

  64. unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 8:06 pm

    Starting to hate my brother in law. Just got another text.

    Goddamnit. Washington is going through their own pen meltdown. Oh well.

  65. zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 8:06 pm

    Dusty’s playoff magic continues.

  66. mrsprtdude said, on October 13, 2016 at 8:13 pm

    Moore at 120…Why in the world would you pull your ace in a game 5 at 99 pitches. Sureal…
    @ Dloo..Nope graduated HS in 83

  67. Macdog said, on October 13, 2016 at 8:21 pm

    Heisey ’bout that!

  68. zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 8:29 pm

    Jansen in the 7th! Brian Kenny is diggin’ it.

  69. Macdog said, on October 13, 2016 at 8:38 pm

    Werth-less.

  70. James said, on October 13, 2016 at 8:38 pm

    If you had to choose between obtaining a 900+ OPS hitter (ok, never mind: a dude likely to hit 35 bombs) or a high priced closer, which would you go with?

    • zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 8:40 pm

      Closer.

      • James said, on October 13, 2016 at 8:41 pm

        That’s incorrect!!

      • zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 8:43 pm

        After this season, a closer would be mighty cool.

      • James said, on October 13, 2016 at 8:46 pm

        Yeah, I know.

    • blade3colorado said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:27 pm

      Easily, the former. In effect, you get those stats 9 innings a game.

  71. djloo27 said, on October 13, 2016 at 8:39 pm

    More Dusty dumbness…

    • djloo27 said, on October 13, 2016 at 8:55 pm

      And more.

  72. zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 8:54 pm

    Werth has killed 3 rallies tonight, but he has such groovy hair.

  73. unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:19 pm

    What did Wash pay for his overrated ass?

    Ahhh Fuck! $126 mill for 7 years?!?!? Jesus.

  74. unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:21 pm

    Another fucking celebration I don’t want to witness.

  75. unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:22 pm

    Coulda been Giants/Dodgers. Epic.

  76. unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:27 pm

    Werth should have bunted down the 3rd bas line his last AB. Woulda been an easy score.

  77. blade3colorado said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:28 pm

    Harper needs to STEAL.

  78. blade3colorado said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:28 pm

    FUCKING TAKE OVER THIS GAME A LA WILLIE MAYS!

  79. blade3colorado said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:34 pm

    Please Universe, God, Buddha, or whomever is in control . . . Let Opie face plant here!

  80. unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:34 pm

    Huckleberry Hound coming in . . . How crazy would it be for him to come in and blow the save?

  81. Macdog said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:43 pm

    Nats blow.

  82. unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:47 pm

    Somewhere I hope Rooster is choking on his dinner.

    • theroooster said, on October 13, 2016 at 10:34 pm

      Whooop! That was a great game. NL ball blows doors on the AL.

  83. unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:47 pm

    Go Cubs!

  84. unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:48 pm

    Dusty must have watched our game and thought, how can i recreate that?

  85. djloo27 said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:48 pm

    Is this one on Dusty? (loser of 9 consecutive potential series clinching games according to the announcer)

    • unca_chuck said, on October 13, 2016 at 10:00 pm

      Ouch! You were dogging him the most tonight. I think you answered your own question.

  86. alleykat69 said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:50 pm

    Fuck the Dodgers
    Fuck the Nationals as well!
    Baker got Bochy disease throwing 17 pitchers in 1 inning ! Wtf is wrong with these managers?

  87. willedav said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:51 pm

    I knew this was unwatchable…like the next series, and the one after that.

    • James said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:53 pm

      Go Blue Jays!

  88. alleykat69 said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:55 pm

    My dream scenario now is Cubs and Indians in the World Series and the tribe scalps the Cubs in 4 to really make them feel like losers as their streak reaches 109 years and counting!!

    • djloo27 said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:57 pm

      I’m with you, Kat…

    • James said, on October 13, 2016 at 10:08 pm

      I’d be with you, if it weren’t for the Ohio polls.

    • blade3colorado said, on October 13, 2016 at 10:20 pm

      My scenario as well. Go Indians!

  89. zumiee said, on October 13, 2016 at 9:57 pm

    Nats had their chances; but in the final analysis, they’re the Nats.

    • djloo27 said, on October 13, 2016 at 10:01 pm

      Actually, they’re the Expos…

  90. snarkk said, on October 13, 2016 at 10:13 pm

    Giants screwed up so much in the second half, they had to fire the 3rd AND 1st base coaches to cover Bochy’s ass. Kelly I get, but what did Hayes do or not do that deserved a firing? He took the hitter’s elbow pad away incorrectly? And, Bam Bam gets a pass for hitting coach of one of the worst offensive teams in baseball?…

    • djloo27 said, on October 13, 2016 at 10:18 pm

      They’ll probably give Bam Bam credit for Gillaspie and blame the hitting woes on age, injury and the ballpark…

    • James said, on October 13, 2016 at 10:18 pm

      Belt must have lobbied for Hayes’ canning.

      • djloo27 said, on October 13, 2016 at 10:21 pm

        I think I read somewhere that Belt lost 7 homers in triples alley this season…

      • James said, on October 13, 2016 at 10:35 pm

        Hensley keeps telling him to go up the middle. The poor goober can’t tell which coach is screwing him over more.

  91. alleykat69 said, on October 13, 2016 at 10:34 pm

    No worries about our new 1st base coach, “Eli Whiteside” will carry the torch passed on by Billy all hold your shin guard Hayes..

  92. PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on October 13, 2016 at 10:44 pm

    Firing the 2 coaches happened quickly, I didn’t think any changes would be made until after the Series. Makes me wonder what other shoes are going to drop.

  93. djloo27 said, on October 13, 2016 at 10:49 pm

    I’m would think about offering the Pirates Belt, Span and Brown for McCutcheon, Cervelli and cash considerations. Maybe throw in Panik for Josh Harrison to balance out the salaries a little better…

    • blade3colorado said, on October 13, 2016 at 11:46 pm

      Down with that deal. McCutcheon had a terrible season, but it is hard for me to believe he wont come back next season. With Cervelli, I take it Loo you are for Posey moving to 1st, correct? I’m on record as wanting that.

  94. mrsprtdude said, on October 13, 2016 at 10:58 pm

    I hate it but in close games the Freaking Dodgers find a way to win. The Murphy Opie battle was great playoff battle ruined by Murphy pop up. The announcers went on endlessly about how slow jansen is to the plate and yet harper stayed put. 8th inning leadoff batter too. Harper was a disappointment. Why couldn’t he hit like he did against us in 14??

  95. PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on October 13, 2016 at 10:58 pm

    I wouldn’t really like to see the likes of Belt and Panik traded, but at this point, I doubt there are really any “untouchables” on the team other than MadBum, so most players on the roster could well be trade material — IF any team asks about them and can give us something we need. I’m afraid we’re stuck with Span, can’t see anyone trading for him, and some of the players probably have salary issues that would not be attractive. I just don’t see them making a blockbuster trade, but that would certainly shake things up. Really hoping they just don’t tinker with minor additions. As alluded to here on the Flap by several Flappers, there are a few very key needs (closer, relievers, OF power hitter) that need to be done right.

  96. eddacker said, on October 14, 2016 at 1:33 am

    I read where Crawford had gotten hit by a thrown ball at third base and it hit his elbow. It was said that if the game 4 NLDS had been a regular season game he would have sat it out to recover from the injury. That may have been the reason for his poor throws.

    I would like to see some improvement in bench strength. And as good as Belt is at seeing balls and strikes he needs to learn to see “pitch I can hit”.

    With rags and Bruce and the availables we should be able to rebuild the bull pen. That leaves a genuine offensive Giant as the most difficult improvement this off season.

    Another option is Theo meets with an ‘accident’ and the cubs are taken out of the mix. I see it in the movies all the time.

    • zumiee said, on October 14, 2016 at 8:26 am

      Good point about Craw’s elbow; I’d forgotten about that.


Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: