THE San Francisco Giants Blog

Denard Span Talk

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on December 14, 2016

Everyone knows that San Dawg and I are in lockstep on almost everything. There are exceptions. He doesn’t like the Warriors. Or the Niners. And he and I are split on Denard Span. It’s starting to consume the friendship. Yesterday this was the text exchange between us:


First of all, I am biased against Span because my 4th favorite player of all time is Rickey Henderson. My list goes 1) Thrill 2) Barry 3) place holder and 4) Rickey. I couldn’t have an Oakland A be in my top 3.

My expectation for a lead off man is simple: Make shit happen. I don’t care what your stats are, just make shit happen. That can be as simple as stealing 2nd base. It could be rattling the pitcher once you get to first base. Taking an extra bag or dropping down a sick bunt for a base hit. Rickey did all that including hitting a mind blowing 81(!) home runs to lead off a game. Now THAT, my fellow Flappers, is making shit happen. Rickey also referred to himself in the 3rd person during interviews. If Span can at least start doing that, I might lay off him a bit.

So I noodled it and came up with the following poll:

Ah, felt good to do a poll again. Now get out there and vote.

56 Responses

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  1. gianthead said, on December 14, 2016 at 8:22 am

    Spam was dead last in defense metrics in the entire NL…THAT IS INDEFENSIBLE!!! Get what I did there…indefensible!!!! LULZ…WORD!

    • twinfan1 said, on December 14, 2016 at 9:19 pm

      His DRS in the second half was +1.

  2. blade3colorado said, on December 14, 2016 at 8:46 am

    Interesting thread Flavor, especially for a mundane hot stove season (IMO). I’m still not clear on your “noodle” counter to Diggity? The Dog said .270 batting average yesterday, so I assume he is down with that number if the criteria is BA.

    Me? Regarding the poll, I also selected .270. Regarding my opinion of Span, like Diggity, I think most Flappers have been way too hard on him. I have said on numerous occasions that I am fine with what he did last year. Pence? Was terrible last season and 2017 will be key for him. Panik? Get rid of him as far as I’m concerned, Gold Glove nothwithstanding. Nunez? Meh as a starter, but I could see him in a super utility role. Belt? I use to despise, but I actually like him now (even going so far as to say he is untouchable). Posey? I think he has reached his nadir in 2016 and he will start his career downhill slide in 2017 (accelerated if he continues to play as many games as he did in 2016). Pagain? Bring him back in a Blanco utility role. If we go with Parker or Williamson, let them play – no yanking them after a couple of “ofers.”

    • Flavor said, on December 14, 2016 at 9:09 am

      I said “noodle on it” because I was responding to his text.

  3. snarkk said, on December 14, 2016 at 9:10 am

    I didn’t get that Japan vid yesterday about the girls playing rock/paper/scissors until I took 5 minutes to read about it. Apparently that game is pervasive in Japan from school to boardroom. So, this was kind of a combo of SuperBowl and American Idol of the game, sorta…

    • Flavor said, on December 14, 2016 at 9:19 am

      I didn’t google anything about it. I just thought it was funny as fuck that they were playing rock/paper/scissors and then all THAT happened. Different cultures trip me out man.

  4. zumiee said, on December 14, 2016 at 9:11 am

    Didn’t Span have a stretch where he went 1-for-30 or something like that? I think that’s where he lost a lot of Giants fans.

  5. snarkk said, on December 14, 2016 at 9:12 am

    Whatever Span does next year, 20 years from now Giants fans will be in the mode of “Denard Span — he was a Giant?”…

  6. zumiee said, on December 14, 2016 at 9:15 am

    The “visual” hurts Span, too, with Giants fans. The gray in the beard, the goofy batting stance.

    • sandog said, on December 14, 2016 at 9:29 am

      Totally agree. I think it is cool that he is different than the usual vain jock and is secure enough to grow a beard and not worry about hiding the gray. But most on here can’t get enough of Loo lampooning him for that.

      I would say the “Pole Smoking Line” for Span is at .255. I use my eyes, not defensive metrics to judge Span’s defense. He is WAY better than Pagan in CF and I think overall pretty decent out there.

      And while they are not my NFL “team,” (the Chiefs are) I actually kinda like the Niners, especially when they suck, like now. In the Montana/Young glory days when the bandwagon was overflowing, I did enjoy rooting against them and that fake punt by Gary Reasons (I think) of the Giants I must confess I enjoyed immensely.

      The other area where Flav and I digress bigtime is regarding Stanford and Cal and USC. I am a Cal guy who always roots against Stanford and especially loves seeing Andrew Luck struggle—–though I do agree he seems like a great dude.
      As for USC, something about Pat Haden and JK McKay and Anthony Davis hooked me as a kid and I have been a big fan ever since. Any other university or sports team affiliated with LA, I can’t stand. (Not completely true, as I do have a soft spot for the Clippers as well)

      • Macdog said, on December 14, 2016 at 9:43 am

        Yes, it was Gary Reasons.

      • djloo27 said, on December 14, 2016 at 10:15 am

        Loo can be a real prick sometimes…

  7. zumiee said, on December 14, 2016 at 9:21 am

    San Dawg, I appreciate your post about your dad, on yesterday’s thread. My dad passed away in May of 2010. He and I watched several Giants games together while he was in the hospital and re-hab center. My dad wasn’t really a baseball fan, but he knew how much of a fan I was, and wanted me to keep the channel on the Giants games when I offered to change the channel. He eventually got just well enough to come back home one last time, and he passed away in his own bed at home a few weeks later, which is the way he wanted to. He lived to be 91, which is very impressive, and was pretty darned healthy until December of ’09, when his body finally was reaching its limit.

  8. Macdog said, on December 14, 2016 at 10:03 am

    I love SD’s last text: “no war or ops crap. Good old-fashioned batting average.”

    In a slight defense of Span, he was the only Giants regular position player whose numbers went up after the All-Star break: .248 to .266 BA and .670 to .712 OPS. So don’t blame him for the team’s lousy second half.

    willedav: Monmouth is 2-0 in MAAC. They play Princeton next week, then pay a visit to Chapel Hill in two weeks.

  9. zumiee said, on December 14, 2016 at 11:58 am

    Regarding DeRosa, he’s a regular pundit on the MLB Network now, and does a good job. He started off not-so-good on the network, IMO, but he got better. He found the right mix of seriousness and humor. He found his broadcasting “voice.” Part of it was to embrace his New Jersey accent and background and bring that flavor to the broadcasts. And I’ll always appreciate the time when he said “I never helped the Giants win anything when I was there.” And that’s a guy with a 2010 World Series ring. His willingness to say that was admirable. Whereas, Aurilia said that he (Aurilia) had helped teach the Giants to win in 2009, implying he had a hand in their ’10 success. That’s pretty ludicrous when you look at it closely. Go through the lineup. Rowand? Already won a championship in ’05. Molina? Already won a championship. Renteria? Already won a championship. Uribe? Already won a championship. Huff? Wasn’t there in ’09. Freddie Sanchez? Was around for 25 injury-riddled games with the Giants in ’09. Posey? Barely there in September of ’09. A bunch of the outfielders weren’t there in ’09. Is Aurelia taking credit for the great pitching staff? That would be laughable.

    • zumiee said, on December 14, 2016 at 12:04 pm

      Maybe Aurilia’s taking credit for all the professionalism he taught Sandoval.

  10. chipower9 said, on December 14, 2016 at 12:06 pm

    ~65 daze until pitchers and catchers report. Cannot come soon enough…Play Ball!

    • djloo27 said, on December 14, 2016 at 3:49 pm

      Tell ya the truth, Chi, I need the break from it…

  11. Bozo said, on December 14, 2016 at 12:28 pm

    I know he’s older and the wheels could fall off at any time but I went with .280+.
    Another year away from the hip surgery and Nunez probably getting most of the lead off duties should take the pressure off of the Gray Bearded one.

  12. xoot said, on December 14, 2016 at 1:57 pm

    I took a look at Stix’s federal court docket today. The court has set January 9, 2017 as the date for hearing the motions to suppress evidence and so forth that Stix and his public defender have filed or will file. After that hearing, the court intends to set the date for trial.

    • chipower9 said, on December 14, 2016 at 2:00 pm

      Thanks for the update…

  13. djloo27 said, on December 14, 2016 at 5:02 pm

    Get ready to deal with this tomorrow:

  14. PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on December 14, 2016 at 5:48 pm

    About Span, some of us commented last season that at some point after sucking, he started doing ok, and it was noticed that he seemed to have slightly modified his batting stance so his front foot wasn’t quite so…. askew…. But then I noticed, he went back to it, and sucked some more. No stats to back that up, though. Also stat-less, but what bugged me most about him was when he was leading off a game or an inning and how often it seemed the #2 hitter came up with 1 out and no one on. That became my measure of his effectiveness or lack thereof. Seemed like a lot of outs at the top of the lineup. Did he do any better when he hit further down in the lineup, or did those outs just not bother me as much? Not sure. Personally, I’d vote for Span as a 4th OFer with a new CFer (and I don’t mean Pagan, who I also think would be fine as the 5th OFer). I don’t hate Span; just don’t think he’s gonna get the job done.

    • twinfan1 said, on December 14, 2016 at 10:32 pm

      There were several guys who didn’t hit up to expectations after the ASB. But Span was the whipping boy- he took it for the team, so to speak,

  15. James said, on December 14, 2016 at 6:07 pm

    Loved the Von Joshua .318 shout out, SD. I’ve always cherished that stat, right up there with Garry Maddox’s .319. Several years ago, I looked up the other numbers and was gratified and relieved to find that both topped 800 OPS those years.

  16. James said, on December 14, 2016 at 6:46 pm

    Denard was the worst leadoff hitter in baseball last year, and it is not even close. Here is a list of all leadoff men with 500 PAs in 2016:,1&pg=0

    • PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on December 14, 2016 at 6:52 pm

      Oh goody, there ARE stats to support my last point…. thanks James! 🙂

    • Flavor said, on December 14, 2016 at 7:00 pm

      that .705 OPS musta had you doing a slow burn.

      • James said, on December 14, 2016 at 7:12 pm

        🙂 The low OBP for the leadoff and number 2 spots put as big a damper on the offense as the lack of HRs.

    • twinfan1 said, on December 14, 2016 at 9:58 pm

      HRs and RBI’s *do* count. He was 4th in RBI and 7th in HRs among NL lead off hitters with 500 or more PA.
      With a healthy hip, he should be close to his career numbers this year.However, I’ve seen many times that for a lot of fans, once a guy is in the doghouse, it’s hard to get out.

      • James said, on December 14, 2016 at 10:54 pm

        750 or above OPS next year, and I’m good.

  17. PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on December 14, 2016 at 7:12 pm

    One common discussion on the Flap through the last parts of last season was about Bochy, seeming to some of us (certainly not all) to have “lost a step” mentally, some rather ineffective managing at times. Keeping Span atop the lineup for so long, especially after getting Nunez, was one example. Although granted, Nunie got hurt for awhile there, so…. Span was still atop the lineup a lot I guess out of necessity. I will be very curious to see if Bochy gets back on his game and better manages the lineup and pitching with an eye toward playing the best players, not just “his guys”.

    • twinfan1 said, on December 14, 2016 at 10:13 pm

      IMO, Nunez would be best in the 6 spot- it’s a good RBI slot and his SB acumen helps the bottom of the order- it’s a big diff when the 7,8,9 hitters only need a single to drive in a run.

  18. djloo27 said, on December 14, 2016 at 7:21 pm

    Span might’ve benefited from a little more rest, too…

    • Flavor said, on December 14, 2016 at 7:42 pm

      100% agree on that! Had Bochy not ridden his tired ass into the ground every game he might have been a little better in the 2nd half.

      • djloo27 said, on December 14, 2016 at 8:37 pm

        On the bright side Span looks rested and rejuvenated in this recent photo:

      • James said, on December 14, 2016 at 8:41 pm

        “Put me in coach, I’m ready to play”

    • James said, on December 14, 2016 at 8:38 pm

      He was better in the second half because of an excellent August:

      He started 132 games, and played in 143. Buster started 122 at catcher.

  19. djloo27 said, on December 14, 2016 at 7:30 pm

    Former all-time great jockey Garrett Gomez dead at 44…

    • PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on December 14, 2016 at 7:36 pm

      Eek, 44 seems awfully young for any kind of former all-time great anything….

    • Flavor said, on December 14, 2016 at 7:36 pm

      must have been drugs. That guy had a pretty hard fall from the top. Never understood how P-Val has stayed alive and all these other guys go down.

      • djloo27 said, on December 14, 2016 at 8:10 pm

        In his prime he was about as good as it gets…

      • djloo27 said, on December 14, 2016 at 8:28 pm

        Early unconfirmed reports say heroin OD…

  20. djloo27 said, on December 14, 2016 at 8:24 pm

    Cavs go to Memphis and leave LeBron, Kyrie and Love back home to rest.
    Fuck all the little Memphis kids who’ve probably looked forward to that game since the summer…

    • unca_chuck said, on December 14, 2016 at 8:31 pm

      Yeah, not that it’s much better but sit your stars at home, not on the road. Not even going on the road trip is even worse.

    • Flavor said, on December 14, 2016 at 8:32 pm

      NBA has to fix all this resting bullshit. Aldridge and Cousins also rested tonight. It’s the scheduling and it needs to change. I would NEVER buy a ticket in advance to an NBA game for fear of having to go and being forced to watch JR Smith and Iman Shumpert lead the offense…..

      • Macdog said, on December 14, 2016 at 9:08 pm

        From AP story: Rick McKenna of Memphis was sitting by himself in the stands. A native of Ravenna, Ohio, he said he paid $400 for his ticket.

  21. James said, on December 14, 2016 at 8:54 pm

    Nice that the first link for “Imam” is to Breitbart.

  22. James said, on December 14, 2016 at 9:12 pm

    I can’t decide what’s crazier, the fact that Johnnie Lemaster had *833 PAs* as SF’s leadoff hitter with a 300 OBP and 604 OPS, or that Bochy’s 2016 Giants produced a 712 OPS in the 3 spot of the batting order:

    • sandog said, on December 14, 2016 at 9:21 pm

      What would you do about our outfield James?

      • James said, on December 14, 2016 at 9:41 pm

        Well, now that “Bad Routes” Fowler won’t be watching triples bounce beyond him at ATT, I’ve got nothing. If I still had my Sporting News subscription, I might be up on a semi-obscure name or two stashed away on some roster . . . .

      • James said, on December 14, 2016 at 10:00 pm

        If only Keon Broxton was 23 and had beaten that trespassing rap!

      • James said, on December 14, 2016 at 10:09 pm

        Jefry Marte, love your versatility!

    • twinfan1 said, on December 14, 2016 at 11:10 pm

      He who walked on the water sunk that 3 spot to the bottom of the cove. Duffy’s defense in no way made up for his poor production in the 3.
      With that, I’m outta here- have a nice holiday, guys.

      • blade3colorado said, on December 15, 2016 at 8:06 am

        Enjoy your holiday Mike. Love reading your posts.

  23. James said, on December 14, 2016 at 10:20 pm

    Robbie Grossman, we can overlook the error totals if you can compete with Belt’s team leading 2016 HR number!

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