A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Still Need Bullpen Help

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on January 19, 2017

Now that the annual Hall of Letdown is over let’s focus on things that matter: like our bullpen. I don’t know about you, but I’m still greatly concerned (and it’s January so I have to whip up any and all concern I can muster).

We are but a single wayward pitch away from being in the same situation we were last year. Melancon goes down, then what? I don’t understand why the Giants haven’t signed Greg Holland yet and I know he’s about to sign any day now with someone else.

We don’t have to argue the negatives of Holland, they are obvious. But he’s done the job before and what would be wrong with giving him the 8th inning till his arm fell off?

The Giants learned a good lesson last year one that, frankly, they shouldn’t have had to be taught. You can’t win without a reliable bullpen. They, more than any other team, should know this…..


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  1. Flavor said, on January 19, 2017 at 7:23 am

    this is such a funny excerpt from wiki on Holyfield. I looked him up to see how many kids he has (11 from 6 different women). Holyfield is not the brightest tool in the shed.
    On February 28, 2007, Holyfield was anonymously linked to Applied Pharmacy Services, a pharmacy in Alabama that was under investigation for supplying athletes with illegal steroids and human growth hormone (HGH). He denied ever using performance enhancers.[46]

    Holyfield’s name does not appear in the law enforcement documents reviewed. However, a patient by the name of “Evan Fields” caught investigators’ attention. “Fields” shares the same birth date as Holyfield, October 19, 1962. The listed address for “Fields” was 794 Evander, Fairfield, Ga. 30213. Holyfield has a very similar address. When the phone number that, according to the documents, was associated with the “Fields” prescription, was dialed, Holyfield answered.[47]

    On March 10, 2007 Holyfield made a public announcement that he would be pursuing his own investigation into the steroid claims in order to clear his name.[48]

  2. zumiee said, on January 19, 2017 at 7:27 am

    There’s a reasonable chance the Giants will just be one of many teams struggling for a Wild Card spot, as the Dodgers run away with the division again.
    Bum wins the Wild Card game again, and then what? That will be the question again.

  3. chipower9 said, on January 19, 2017 at 7:54 am

    Agree, Flav. And I too think Holland would be a good addition/insurance policy.

    We all know and agree that if we had Melancon on-board last year, that our team would have advanced past the cubbies, and who knows what would have happened. Good chance we would have experienced another parade down Market Street.

    Have you called Evans, yet? 😉

  4. chipower9 said, on January 19, 2017 at 7:55 am

    Only 25 daze until pitchers and catchers report. Let’s play some ball, bitches!

  5. willedav said, on January 19, 2017 at 8:06 am

    We all had basically same ideas–get another bat (mostly for OF but IF an option too) and pen depth starting with closer and working back.
    Giants so far have added Melancon and nothing. I think that’s a fail on Evans part. Giants are relying on a bunch of young players in pen, LF and bench plus comeback seasons from other regs who struggled last year.
    I think that’s way too optimistic for all those pieces to work out.

  6. blade3colorado said, on January 19, 2017 at 8:18 am

    Not absolutely certain, but I was the first here to call for Holland’s signing weeks ago. To me, way more of a priority and less expensive one, than a left fielder or 3rd baseman. Also, less likely to effect the luxury tax. By the by, did any of you read this Keith Law Insider column when Melancon was signed?


    Since it is an Insider piece, here is the pertinent part you need to know:

    “I thought Mark Melancon was worthy of a one-year deal, a good reliever with a history of injuries earlier in his career and some subtle signs of declining skills over the past two seasons. He’s 31 and has lost some fastball velocity over the past few years, switching to a cutter as his primary pitch to compensate. That pitch became much less effective at getting ground balls last season, and he’s around only league-average at missing bats. He should still be a solid late-game relief option in 2017, maybe into 2018, but there’s no way I’d bet on him retaining his value over the next four years. To give any reliever four years willfully ignores the history of such contracts, and to do it with Melancon willfully ignores his own history as well.”

    Consequently, I am down 100% with what Flavor wrote.

    • chipower9 said, on January 19, 2017 at 9:15 am

      Good stuff…and I am totally on-board with Flav’s synopsis, too. Thanks for sharing, brother. How long are you in the states before heading back to VN?

      • blade3colorado said, on January 19, 2017 at 9:40 am

        February 14th (via the big island, Hawaii, to perform a wedding (gulp) for a friend).

      • chipower9 said, on January 19, 2017 at 10:02 am

        You’ll do great, brother. No sweat…

    • snarkk said, on January 19, 2017 at 10:54 am

      At the time, I said Melancon wold probably be ok for the first two of four year deal. If he starts losing command on his stuff, it’s trouble time, because the stuff ain’t that great…

  7. chipower9 said, on January 19, 2017 at 8:20 am

    Agree with WillieD’s take. At this point, I am OK with a platoon of the two-headed monster of McPark in LF (sure as hell does not seem that Evans is pursuing a proven LFer), and I think we have adequate coverage in the IF, so my main concern is the one echoed by Flav…adding a proven arm to the pen…someone who has, and can close. Otherwise, I think our bullpen is pretty solid.

  8. chipower9 said, on January 19, 2017 at 8:25 am

    This from an article I read the other day, with the discussion about our pen last year: “They blew a franchise-record 30 saves, lost nine games in which they led entering the ninth inning and dropped six games after leading by four or more runs.” OUCH. That was a painful reminder. So, I am hopeful that the Giants do add another veteran arm, and again as mentioned above, one who can close, if required.

  9. Flavor said, on January 19, 2017 at 9:21 am

    getting tired of reading about Westbrook and KD and dumbass questions they get asked like “Are you guys on speaking terms?” Who fucking cares?

  10. zumiee said, on January 19, 2017 at 9:34 am

    In honor of Westbrook’s awesome travel last night, here’s another great moment in NBA traveling:

    • Irish Kevin said, on January 19, 2017 at 12:09 pm

      The old joke use to be you get 2 steps in the regular season and 3 steps in the playoffs/championship. Good to see the number of steps has increased in the regular season. Yuck yuck

  11. Flavor said, on January 19, 2017 at 9:35 am

    Neftali Perez just signed with the Brewers. Again, woulda been nice to see the Giants sign him. They signed one fucking guy and quit the off season. STUPID. This is going to come back to haunt them……

  12. zumiee said, on January 19, 2017 at 9:35 am

    And another one:

  13. unca_chuck said, on January 19, 2017 at 9:48 am

    Near as I can tell, neither of those plays got whistled.

  14. blade3colorado said, on January 19, 2017 at 9:53 am

    I don’t understand the premise behind this column about the Yankees Tanaka, where the columnist is saying this is all “win win” for Tanaka, but not for the Yankees, should he choose to opt out after next season. Fucker is still pitching with a slight tear in the UCL in his right elbow. It could tear further, requiring Tommy John surgery.


    Am I missing something here? Haven’t they learned their lesson after ARod and Sabathia?

  15. giants54 said, on January 19, 2017 at 10:17 am

    They are tapped out so it’s up to the younger guys….Smith Law Osich Okert Strickland to emerge as worthy successors to Affeldt Lopez Romo Casilla. I’m optimistic they will be.

    • chipower9 said, on January 19, 2017 at 11:03 am

      Me too, 54. Tapped out as in over the luxury number?

      • giants54 said, on January 19, 2017 at 4:31 pm

        Yes, I think any additional money will be held for deadline deals. Makes sense to me to wait and see how things go.

  16. willedav said, on January 19, 2017 at 10:40 am

    Gotta admit I just don’t get Westbrook at all. Supremely talented sure but the constant chirping and badgering officials and an expression like someone is standing on his foot all the time. He smirks at Durant after a meaningless dunk with his team down 25 and now vows payback on Pachulia.
    How does any of this nonsense help your team win?

    Um, how about trying to take better shots (31% vs. Warriors 1-6 from 3) and better care of the ball 10 TOs last night. Your best player can’t have 5 fouls either, 2 of them on dumb charges.
    Like Mose Allison said, his mind is on vacation and his mouth is working overtime.

    Meanwhile, Durant has 79 in their 2 matchups and was just spectacular last night–13-16 shooting 12 boards 4 assists 3 blocks and consistently takes high road when he says anything at all. Man he is fun to watch.

  17. snarkk said, on January 19, 2017 at 10:50 am

    As for learning lessons, the Giants so far haven’t shown they’ve learned regarding the need for an OF that has depth and is not one injury away from being crap…

  18. unca_chuck said, on January 19, 2017 at 10:52 am

    What o don’t get is when did the Warriors become the Raiders? They get more bullshit calls on them than any other team. West is doesn’t like hard fouls? Awww. Tough shot skippy. But on no way was that a flagrant foul. Hard? Sure but to call that flagrant was ludicrous. Hey call brush fouls when Klay is defending Westie but westie falls on top of Curry on a lay up and no foul.

    The refs don’t understand what a hard foul is as opposed to a flagrant

    • snarkk said, on January 19, 2017 at 10:59 am

      Away from the ball, Curry was manhandled in the playoffs last year. If LeBron got that treatment, he’d be shooting 30 free throws a game. I don’t get why Curry gets so few calls. Even going to the hoop, he gets clobbered a lot and no call. Weird treatment for a league star…

      • zumiee said, on January 19, 2017 at 11:45 am

        Curry doesn’t do all the screaming, flopping, and belly-aching some of the other stars do.
        Apparently, that stuff actually does work with the officials.

      • blade3colorado said, on January 19, 2017 at 12:30 pm

        Doesn’t surprise me. As Zumiee just showed regarding traveling – if a guy takes 4-6 steps before dribbling and isn’t called on it, do you think these blind assholes are going to call blatant fouls? No idea how these chumps get these jobs. Same deal with MLB umpires, i.e., only job requirement I can see is the ability to place in Nathan’s Hot Dog Eating Contest.

  19. snarkk said, on January 19, 2017 at 11:03 am

    2017 is still an open window year for SF with their rotation. They have to go balls out to get the Pen and outfield support needed to go all the way. I like the Dubs approach, have a great team, get greater and dominate…

  20. Irish Kevin said, on January 19, 2017 at 12:17 pm

    Reading comments, are you guys questioning the length of the contract or his ability to be the closer? Or both. When he was first signed it seemed like everyone liked the signing.

    • willedav said, on January 19, 2017 at 12:28 pm

      I think it’s great. There was a column I read on F/G in the roto section entitled Trust Melancon. There were stats in it that suggested there were some things he performed even better than Miller or Chapman. iirc one of these was related to how few deep fly balls he gives up. His success rate has been off charts too.

      The length and $$$ involved is price you have to pay; none of the top guys are going for 1 yr deals unless they have significant opt out clause. I honestly don’t give much thought to what the guy is making if he is getting people out or if he’s getting lit up like Casilla was last year.

    • chipower9 said, on January 19, 2017 at 1:11 pm

      I like the signing. From what I have read from the “experts and pundits” they think Melancon will be serviceable for the first two years, and then possibly degrade. The flip-side is that Melancon has on opt-out after the first two years. But, if his skills do degrade, I do not see him opting-out of a 14 mil a year paycheck.

  21. Irish Kevin said, on January 19, 2017 at 12:21 pm

    All sports are controlled by the officials, in Football so many plays have holding in them that the ref could call holding on every play, basketball 🏀 there is a foul or as the above videos showed a travel on every play, and don’t get me started on baseball ⚾️ and th strike zone!!

  22. Flavor said, on January 19, 2017 at 12:24 pm

    I love the signing. I just don’t think you stop because you get one guy. That might not be a realistic expectation considering the luxury tax and all the money they spend elsewhere. But relievers like Neftali Perez and Holland don’t cost much.

    • willedav said, on January 19, 2017 at 12:41 pm

      Agreed and the set up guys are invaluable and often have to come in under big pressure with RISP.
      Thing with giants is, other than the FLR they are all kids, even Strick and Kontos. Out of all of them I don’t think it’s a stretch at least a couple will suck. With LH heavy LA LU having loogy depth really important to Bochy.

  23. unca_chuck said, on January 19, 2017 at 1:09 pm

    Did any of you hear Westie after the game? He called out Pachulia (!) twice and said he was “gonna get his ass” a couple times.

    “I don’t know, hHe hit me kind of hard, but it’s alright. I’m going to get his ass back — straight up.”

    Westbrook was then asked if he noticed that Pachulia stood over him.

    “Nah, I didn’t see until just now, but I don’t play that game,” he continued. “I’m going to get his ass back so — whenever that is, I don’t know what it’s going to be, but I don’t play that game.”

    Dude outweighs you by about 100 lb and is 8″ taller. Think your teammates are going to come to your rescue? Good luck dumbfuck.

    Westbrook, Griffin, James, and Harden are bringing about a new age in flopping and whining. I swear, if I was getting these bullshit flagrant calls I’d start throwing elbows at guys. If I’m getting a flagrant, I’m going to make it worthwhile. Otherwise, the game will look like soccer.

    I sent a message to the league office about the calls last year against Green that were ALL changed after the fact, and that Draymond’s flagrant against flopperjames should be reduced. Why not? Been writing my congressman and women about disavowing all of Trump’s nominations so this fit right in.

    • chipower9 said, on January 19, 2017 at 1:18 pm

      Good on your for writing your congressional reps, Charlie. I have been doing the same. I sat in on a call with Bernie Sanders the other evening, and one of the more compelling comments (in answer to many folks question – what can we do to battle Trump’s agenda) was that democracy only works when the populace is engaged. So, if you do not like what you are seeing from the trumpster…then WTF are you doing to change it??? Getting involved is the answer. I am attending a rally/protest at the state capitol tomorrow and will continue to contact my elected officials to voice my concerns (there are going to be a lot of concerns)…

      • gianthead said, on January 19, 2017 at 5:05 pm

        You all have to win seats….not likely enough to control either chamber after 2018…

      • chipower9 said, on January 20, 2017 at 7:34 am

        Depends how badly trump’s team (and the repub controlled congress) stumble and bumble, and the activity of the citizens who want to see that change. I will be pushing hard for that change…

  24. djloo27 said, on January 19, 2017 at 3:12 pm

    Trump’s agenda is to make America great again. Why would anyone want to battle with that?

    Trumbo’s going back to Baltimore.

    Trumpets sound good when they are played well.

    • zumiee said, on January 19, 2017 at 3:54 pm

      If you think Trump’s going to be good for America, I’ll sell you that big bridge you live near for a great discount price.

      • zumiee said, on January 19, 2017 at 3:56 pm

  25. gianthead said, on January 19, 2017 at 5:03 pm

    Trumbo only getting $37 mill for 3 years??? He got played…wish ownership/mgmt had been just a little proactive when someone like Trumbo sucks up a bad deal. I repeatedly made mention of how bad of a deal Nelson Cruz got and Giants could have easily had him. We could have easily made a savy offer to Trumbo’s camp that could have netted him a much better deal with more money deferred to the back end…who here would have been mad at a 4 year $60 mill deal for Trumbo???

    • blade3colorado said, on January 19, 2017 at 5:25 pm

      If money wasn’t an issue (as I indicated the other day), I would take him. However, a 4 year deal at $60 million? Hilarious. Especially when you consider, he OBVIOUSLY HAD NO BETTER OFFERS than that $37.5 million he got from the Orioles. Two other points, Orioles screwed over Trumbo and had him by the short hairs – by offering him that one-year, $17.2 million qualifying offer, where a team would have lost a draft choice. We already have a lousy farm system and you want to give up one of our draft choices?

      Second, he’s an AL East Division player all the way . . . Per ESPN, “A first baseman and outfielder, Trumbo started 95 games in right field for the Orioles in 2016. He ranked fourth among AL right fielders with 10 assists, but accounted for minus-9 runs saved, second worst at the position.” Last I looked, right field and 1st base were taken by Pence and Belt. So, you want him to learn how to play left field, when he can barely play first and right?

      • gianthead said, on January 19, 2017 at 7:38 pm

        Bonds was still playing left when he was not all that good. You sign Trumbo for the bat. I think he has 3 good years left in him and a 4th would just be bonus. $15 mill a year for someone that could hit 30-35 homers pretty easily is well worth the 4 year deal. Plus obviously Trumbo would be pulled for defense late in games as they would likely done for most of the potential sluggers pm the market.

      • chipower9 said, on January 20, 2017 at 7:36 am

        We know the Giants put an emphasis on defense. No way in hell they go down that path, and I concur. Trumbo for 4 @ 60 mil. No thanks. I would spend the coin as Flav suggested and get a proven veteran arm…someone would could step-in and close in the event that Melancon cannot go.

  26. djloo27 said, on January 19, 2017 at 5:59 pm

    Josh Johnson, who the Giants had signed to a minor league deal has decided to retire instead…

  27. djloo27 said, on January 19, 2017 at 6:56 pm

    I haven’t read or heard a peep about 500 homer man Gary Sheffield’s dismal HOF vote total.
    Hated him.

  28. Bozo said, on January 19, 2017 at 7:10 pm

    January 19th and we’ve already lost the season? Dang, my crystal ball must have a use by date of 10/29/2014.

    • djloo27 said, on January 19, 2017 at 8:21 pm

  29. PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on January 19, 2017 at 8:17 pm

    No dooming here about the upcoming season, lots to be optimistic about. Even adding only Melancon helps that ‘pen immensely. Team looks good on paper at all “starting” levels, but that’s where I agree with Tom’s 10:50am; depth depth and more depth is needed. The outfield as is looks exactly like last year’s minus Blanco and Pagan, with no one of real value even taking the place of those 2 (and Pagan might well be back). Anybody here really want that? I don’t. And I doubt the front office can be thinking “that’s good enough”, because inevitably Pence and Span and someone else will either be on the injury shelf and/or wont be performing at top level in long stretches. Sabean was often good at a very late off-season addition that filled the holes. We’ll see if Evans can do that too.

  30. willedav said, on January 19, 2017 at 8:25 pm

    Bonds and Trumbo in same post…guarantee that is first last and only time ever for that.
    Bonds, right now, is a better hitter. Trumbo had one suitor period, for good reason. F/G had column a week ago that showed how little value he gets a team for all the HRs he hits because that is his only skill whatsoever—low BA, low OB few BBs ton of Ks. His best defensive position is DH.

    • blade3colorado said, on January 19, 2017 at 9:03 pm

      Thumbs up!

    • chipower9 said, on January 20, 2017 at 7:39 am

      Great post, WillieD. Solid Gold.

  31. James said, on January 19, 2017 at 9:31 pm

    I’ll say it again: the pen pitched no differently in 2016 than it did in 2015. If Strickland, Law, Kontos, and Smith put up similar hits/walks allowed stats this year, the chances that the blown saves numbers will be anywhere near 30 are very low. To have a collective bullpen ERA of 3.65 — lower than the starters 3.71 — and give up that many leads is a pure statistical anomaly.

    • blade3colorado said, on January 19, 2017 at 9:47 pm

      Unequivocally agree with you. Furthermore, I’ll add one more thing . . . I understand why Casilla had to go, but his peripheral stats, sans blown saves, were good to excellent. Consequently, if he can overcome his psychology issues this coming season, he will probably pitch well. Good point James!

      • James said, on January 19, 2017 at 9:55 pm

        Blade, what will be amusing (and a bit frustrating) is if SF again finishes at 86-88 wins with 40 saves by Melancon, about the same collective bullpen ERA, and far fewer blown leads. One version of Zumie’s not too unlikely WC scenario.

    • blade3colorado said, on January 20, 2017 at 7:54 am

      Or essentially the same stats again, but with the same results as last season, with the blown saves and late inning leads. Than “Amusing” turns into “Horrified.” lulz. Anyway, I get your point (talk to Unca though, who is missing it. Grin.).

  32. unca_chuck said, on January 20, 2017 at 7:31 am

    No differently except for 30 blown leads? What are you saying, James? That they shouldn’t spend money on their pen? That it was all just a season long statistical anomaly? Casilla won’t blow 9 saves again? Lopez won’t walk too many guys in crucial situations?

    Peripheral stats? Aaaak! I’m sure Mrs Lincoln enjoyed the play for the most part. The point being, James, you take the human element completely out of the equation and say that they won’t fail in pressure situations like they did repeatedly last year. Casillas era numbers are trending up 1.70 2.59 3.57. Blown saves last 3 years go 4 6 9. Is that a 3 year anomaly?

  33. unca_chuck said, on January 20, 2017 at 7:36 am

    I’m sure Casilla will pitch pretty well. When the As sink to 10 games under .500 there will be little pressure on him. As forgiving as our fans are, he still got rattled by the constant fuckups and the booing. In Oakland, unless they somehow contend, he’ll be sailing without the pressure.

    • blade3colorado said, on January 20, 2017 at 7:51 am

      You just explained exactly what James and I were trying to express. Casilla was a head case last season. One blown save beget another blown save and it snowballed as we all know in that horrible, putrid September. However, if you look at his stats and the rest of the bullpen, they were as good as the year before, as James pointed out, SANS SAVES AND GIVING UP LATE INNING LEADS.

      Anyway, I get what James is saying.

      • unca_chuck said, on January 20, 2017 at 9:02 am

        And if my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle. The point is they DID fuck up. Hugely – bigly even. You can’t tell me you want Romo and Lopez back, let alone Casilla.

      • blade3colorado said, on January 20, 2017 at 11:07 am

        No, I have said repeatedly, GET HOLLAND. Failing that (and they were set with Melancon and no one else), yeah, I would have brought back Casilla as an long reliever. In short, I believe in redemption and he was always a good Giant.

  34. chipower9 said, on January 20, 2017 at 7:41 am

    Only 24 daze until pitchers and catchers report. Play ball!

  35. chipower9 said, on January 20, 2017 at 7:42 am

    It’s January 20th…I must go find my pitchfork…

    • willedav said, on January 20, 2017 at 8:17 am

      hear you but these things do blow over. Every time these guys get in, major f-ups ensue: Watergate, Iran contra, weapons of mass destruction/recession yada yada. Given enough rope they usually hang themselves.
      But hey nothing wrong with storming the castle!

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