A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Why Is Bumgarner Coming Back So Soon?

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on July 6, 2017

Pitching did not go well for MadBum last night. Here’s a pic of the guy who caught the 476 foot bomb Bum gave up to someone who hit two home runs off him. In the same inning.

Screenshot 2017-07-06 at 6.07.03 AM

The more I stare at this pic the more I like this guy. Nice phone. And he is the perfect visual representation of what happened to this lost season.

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  1. blade3colorado said, on July 6, 2017 at 6:33 am

    Good post Flavor. I Agree 100%.

    Read this column earlier and it’s the first freaking writer I’ve read who tells it like it is, insofar as what moves the Giants have to make before the trade deadline (link at end of post).

    We have 3 weeks to overhaul this POS team. Will the Giants listen to hard core fans, such as the majority of Flappers . . . Or will they cater to the band wagon/wine cheese crowd? This is how the writer frames the dilemma:

    “One of the Giants’ top priorities should be to severely limit their list of “untouchable” players.

    As a result of the Giants’ slap-happy world of fan-player bonding, if any player is traded or released it’s a crushing blow to the fan base. Heck, a majority of Giant fans still want Tim Lincecum to be re-signed (this boggles my fucking mind).

    The Giants aren’t particularly good at making tough decisions when it comes to player trades, so having to also deal with their fragile fan base adds another disincentive to the process.”

    However, this is where I disagree with the writer, i.e., he lists Buster and Bum as untouchable. Me? I could give 2 shits. Trade either or both of them . . . For the right price, everyone on the team is in play. Especially true, when you consider that essentially Belt is the ONLY worthwhile player he believes has value (remember – in his mind Buster and Bum are untouchable).

    Anyway, read the column and I’m curious to hear what Flappers think???


  2. willedav said, on July 6, 2017 at 6:39 am

    Pitching is what Bum does. When he is healthy enough to do it (like say by the time Cueto gets traded), then let him play. After all it is what the Giants are paying him to do and I’m sure like every other ballplayer out there, what he wants to do more than anything. Why make him wait all the way into ST of next year?

    I also think fans would love to see him pitch and hit; I know I would. I don’t buy shelving him over a “lost season” any more than Pence Craw Posey.

  3. Flavor said, on July 6, 2017 at 6:40 am

    to me, it would all depend on who they get for Belt and Cueto. There’s no reason to trade everybody away and rebuilds don’t work like that anyway. I think they could get away with a re-tool if they picked up a couple of good hitting outfielders and maybe a SP for Belt and Cueto. And I think both could bring just that in trades.
    Plus I’d love to see Belt traded away so we could once and for all see how he would do if he wasn’t confined to hitting half his games in big, bad mean ATT Park.

  4. willedav said, on July 6, 2017 at 7:04 am

    Flav I think you are closer to what I believe would be best than the guy in the column. Giants need 2 more OFs and one of them has to be able to play CF; I’ve said over and over Slater deserves a look there. 1b would be easiest other position to replace within system..
    I think SPs much more difficult so I’d would definitely hang onto to Bum and Smardz. Someone is going to have to make 30+ starts, and beyond Blach and Beede any other help seems a year or two away.

    That being said, I’d love for SF to put Nunez Craw Panik Span and Pence on waivers just to see what would happen. I think the OF defense has to be improved. While they don’t necessarily need power they do need better hitters, more like what Red Sox have—young good speedy OF and a team full of .280 hitters (minus of course the forever annoying Hanley).

  5. blade3colorado said, on July 6, 2017 at 7:30 am

    Am I missing something here? No where does this guy or I say trade the entire team or make wholesale changes. What he has said is that 3 players are potentially “significant” trade pieces – Belt, Cueto, and Crawford, with the latter 2 having issues (Crawford a lacklustre season and Cueto potentially being a rental). Regarding what I said – I believe no one is untouchable. The entire team is in play if a deal presents itself.

    Regarding Smardz, his stats are mediocre and we would have to pay a significant part of his contract to get rid of him (as the columnist points out too). So yeah, keep him. The bottom line is that Evans needs to suit up and show up now . . . Not during the hot stove season.

    • willedav said, on July 6, 2017 at 8:09 am

      smardz last month or so has been an improvement, more ace like. If he can continue that no way I trade him, Bum neither. Pitching to me is still most imp part of the game. Moore and Melancon signings, good at the time I thought, haven’t worked out, so it’s time to move on. Healthy, I think someone would take Melancon too.

      Agreed, I’d look into deals for those 3 mentioned to address specific areas of need, mostly to get younger every day players. I think all could be replaced and Giants would save money ($15 mil+ a year) to be used differently.

      Watching Red Sox, they are the type of team I’d like SF to have. They hit well, .270 as a team, score runs despite being dead last in AL for HRs, and pitch well. They also only have 2 regs in LU over 30, Pedroia and Moreland. You don’t have to have bombers to win at ATT imo but they need better BA/OB guys to score runs..

    • Flavor said, on July 6, 2017 at 8:10 am

      well, you suggested it in your comment when you said nobody is off limits. But I see now that’s now what you meant. Although if you trade Posey and Bum you are essentially tearing it all down, right?
      Trade Belt and Cueto, keep Bum and Posey who is pretty untradeable anyway.
      And obviously keep Smarge who will be a great #2 after Bum. I don’t know what to do with Matt Moore anymore.

  6. unca_chuck said, on July 6, 2017 at 7:38 am

    If Bum is healthy, he pitches. Otherwise what? He hangs out in the dugout to collect his weekly $60,000 while his teammates grind out the year? Players get the rep for being softer than the older days. This plays into that. That he is more valuable chilling in the dugout.

    Beyond that last night is an abbreviated spring training start.

    Anyhow, as the Guanrs are learning, the marketing of the personalities on the team is s double edged sword. It endears the players to the fans and creates a loyal crazy fan base (see the Marlins of the 90s that traded players and rebuilt all the time). There’s still a lot of talk that the Duffy trade led directly to the downfall.

    This loyalty may even get into Sabevans collective heads as to their players’ potential and actual worth. Cueto is a known entity but Belt may not be known as much more than a plus defender.

  7. Flavor said, on July 6, 2017 at 8:19 am

    I actually don’t think anyone will be traded. MAYBE Nunie and possibly Cueto but for all the reasons listed by that guy in the article Blade posted I think we keep all the main guys. Also, for one other reason: Sabean values Belt/Craw/Posey/Panik/Span/Pence probably higher than anyone else, that’s why he gave them so much money (well, not Panik). I don’t think he’ll like the offers he gets for them because he overvalues them. So, they all stay and we are fucked for years.

  8. Flavor said, on July 6, 2017 at 8:25 am

    It’s really discouraging to think the fanbase would be devastated by these guys getting traded. Fuck these guys. They’re in last fucking place. If the fans would rather watch these guys lose nearly every day instead of good players who will help us get back to a World Series, and Baer obviously knows this, what will be the motivation to trade any of them? And the fan base will get exactly what they deserve. Shit.

    • blade3colorado said, on July 6, 2017 at 8:48 am

      Good post. As I said earlier, I don’t get it either. Similarly, if you poll all Flappers, I believe a significant majority favors trading anyone on this team, if it potentially makes us better and/or we already have someone just as good to fill in on the team or in the minors.

      Along with their consideration of the fan base feelings, I think marketing is part of the front office equation too (as I indicated last week). Specifically, the Giants (Baer) have promoted these personalities ad nauseum, e.g., Panda & Giraffe hats, etc. In short, will they really trade someone if the player(s) puts butts in the seats and sells jerseys regardless of how they’re playing? I don’t honestly know.

  9. Flavor said, on July 6, 2017 at 8:31 am

    and I don’t really care if Bum comes back this year, if he’s healthy, sure let him pitch. I just think there is some value in not dumping more innings on that arm this year. Too many innings catches up to everyone at some point. See: Cain.

    • blade3colorado said, on July 6, 2017 at 9:06 am

      This season is lost. I agree with your original comment that he not pitch this season. I have only one big exception (which is never going to happen because the Giants never fucking do this) – to show the league Bum is healthy, whereby they can trade him for maximum value.

      Instead, the dumbasses will likely extend his contract next season a la Cain. Lulz

  10. Flavor said, on July 6, 2017 at 8:35 am

    another thought: where does Sabean/Evans stand on their philosophy of team building and management? There are a lot of people out there who think the “heavy pitching foundation/fuck hitting” philosophy is becoming quickly outdated. If Sabean doesn’t agree than he’ll have no motivation to change anything–just figure out how to add another stud SP and he’ll think he’s good to go. And he can buy one of those in the off season.

    • snarkk said, on July 6, 2017 at 8:46 am

      The popgun offense thing works only if you have dominant pitching. You are not going to have consistently dominant starters or Pen, let alone both. I want to see OFers that can run, catch and hit bombs…

    • zumiee said, on July 6, 2017 at 8:46 am

      It’s an HR- dominated MLB now, the baseballs may be juiced, and winning without a lot of HRs is suddenly dated. MLB evolved away from the Giants. We became a dinosaur rather quickly.

      • Flavor said, on July 6, 2017 at 8:59 am

        and the question is, does Sabean understand this? because if he doesn’t, we are fucked for 10 years or until he leaves.

      • Lurker John said, on July 6, 2017 at 10:06 am

        The only way he’s leaving is feet first.

  11. zumiee said, on July 6, 2017 at 8:41 am

    I didn’t like the Braves trading Alex Wood to the Dodgers at the time, and the trade is even more horrendous now. Wood was a very good pitcher for the Braves, and they traded him away for garbage. Of the three guys they got, one is completely out of baseball, another is playing for an independent-league minor league team, and another is in the Rangers’ minor league system now.
    Awesome trade, John Hart.

  12. zumiee said, on July 6, 2017 at 8:53 am

    The Dodger/D-Backs game last night was a Brian Kelly nightmare. It’s what baseball is now. Two teams where everybody is swinging for the fences (launch angle!), a ton of strikeouts and walks, few balls in play, and a 1-0 score, in a game that takes over 3 hours. It’s like watching a little-league game. Kelly hates games like that. I can see why.

  13. unca_chuck said, on July 6, 2017 at 9:13 am

    Irregardless of how the casual fans feel about the personalities, and yeah, the FO sells the shit out of them (Melkmaids, anyone?), the Lunatic Fringe (nee: knowledgable fans) understand that the team is in LAST PLACE and is sucking pretty hard. With Nunie basically doing northing (trade? maybe a rosin bag) and being hurt all the time, Hwang Dang Doodle fills his spot with no problem. Specs backs up Hwanger. Cueto has made it painfully clear that he wants out and if the team doesn’t trade him, there will be a huge outcry.

    BUT (there’s always a big but), for all the shittiness, there is a kernel of truth to the fact that the guys they have under these onerous contracts aren’t over the hill yet. Craw, Panik, Belt, Posey, and Bummie are all right around 30 and have at least 3 more years of prime playing. Short of Pence (who is a mess), the rest of the core guys are fairly young and still have a lot left in the tank.

    We DO need 2 OFers to cover CF and RF. Slater is cool, but he’s a bit of a butcher in LF. He can’t play CF in my opinion. The pen is still a dilemma, but Dyson may end up being a steal. Melancon? fuck weho knows. Let him get healthy and we’ll see next year.

    Belt is the guy I just don’t know about. The media and the team pushes the fact that he’s a gumby-shouldered sourpuss who is a waste of potential. So, his trade value sucks, especially with the new contract in place.

    In reality he’s a plus defender who, like the rest of this team, is a streaky hitter. Sure, his numbers would go up (a ton) in Houston, but who do we replace him with long-term? Posey has categorically stated he does not want to move there. Hwanger has played some 1st, but we need more than a stop-gap to replace the inconsistent power and the way-above average fielding we’d be losing.

    The pen shouldn’t be this hard to fix. And the guys they counted on to get their shit together (Ocrap, Oshit, Clockwork Orange, and Strichnyne) didn’t. Strick even might have a little trade value given his velocity, but if Rags can’t fix him, I’m sure the league thinks no one can. So there you have it. Cueto is the only guy who leaves. Unless they simply outright Nunie.

  14. dirtnrocksnomo said, on July 6, 2017 at 9:20 am

    Booby may not be as dumb as he seems but I doubt. The FO most likely sees a team that’s just missing a few bats and arms. How that will make up 20 games in the west is anyone’s guess. If they think Shaw is ready then Belt is gone. The fact that he’s the club’s second best offensive player is sad but they’ll have to make up that gap somehow and for all of his faults at the dish, Belt is excellent defensively. He makes the whole infield better with his play over there. We’ve been kicking this around at the Flap since May so we know the drill. Cueto, Nunez, Strickland, Kontos? Gone. Other than that what have they got? Yep, it’s Crawford, Panik, Bumgarner and Posey. They’re not going anywhere until the overstock merchandise is moved.

    • unca_chuck said, on July 6, 2017 at 9:24 am

      Well, there’s a certain amount of truth to it. If we had JD Martinez in the OF as opposed to Gorkys Marrero Hill Stubbs Mcfuckface, how many wins is that worth? 5? 10?

      • zumiee said, on July 6, 2017 at 9:29 am

        I’d forgotten about Stubbs. He couldn’t beat out Gorkys, when Gorkys was hitting about .120.

      • dirtnrocksnomo said, on July 6, 2017 at 9:33 am

        Hill never made sense to me. Martinez is a 1.9 WAR this year so there’s that. Sabevans has always been pretty obvious with who they’re targeting and they supposedly liked him in the off season so I wouldn’t be surprised to see them go after him now. Problem is that he’s the #1 target per MLBTR so I the Giants would totally overpay.

  15. unca_chuck said, on July 6, 2017 at 9:21 am

    Beyond that, I wouldn’t be too thrilled if Belt goes to Houston and suddenly hits .275 with 32-105. Unless we got something valuable (ie a bona fide OFer) who at least comes close to putting up those kinds of numbers.

    • Lurker John said, on July 6, 2017 at 10:09 am

      In that bandbox, that might be exactly what he does. Balls jump out of that park, especially to RF.

  16. zumiee said, on July 6, 2017 at 9:34 am

    The Giants have won 7 out of 8 and are still 15 and a half games out of the Wild Card. Not an easy climb out of the deep hole they’ve dug.
    But they are being entertaining to watch lately, at least.

    • zumiee said, on July 6, 2017 at 9:35 am

      The front office will be encouraged by this, and few changes will be made.

      • zumiee said, on July 6, 2017 at 9:37 am

        No contract money eaten; the owners will be happy. The Giants’ owners are not what you’d call baseball geniuses.

      • blade3colorado said, on July 6, 2017 at 9:38 am

        Spot on regarding my nightmare scenario.

  17. djloo27 said, on July 6, 2017 at 9:50 am

    I also like the guy who caught the homer off Bumgarner.
    I’m sure he was once young and swift with big dreams…

  18. djloo27 said, on July 6, 2017 at 9:55 am

    The Tiger announcers last night said that the Giants will listen to offers for anyone but Bum, Craw and Posey.
    They also said there was interest in Cain and Pence.
    They did not say how they knew any of this…

  19. willedav said, on July 6, 2017 at 10:12 am

    I think the Red Sox are proving otherwise on the HR to win theory. Every team in their division hits more HRs and so does rest of entire league. But they have the best pitching with Sale and Kimbrel and a LU full of good hitters and can score enough runs (4th in league) because of high BA. Sure the Yanks and O’s hit more HRs but they are in tailspin because of awful pitching. And they have a young team that could likely get better; too many Giants likely only to get worse and of course expensive.

    Giants problem is too much dead weight, even among the vets—Craw Belt Pence aren’t hitting well enough and bench has been total washout. Span and Panik I can live with for another year if Span is moved to LF. but since they can’t develop starting pitching you have to go buy some, like Boston did. They don’t have enough prospects to trade for it.

  20. unca_chuck said, on July 6, 2017 at 10:44 am

    Cain and Pence? Of all the guys on the team, they are the LAST guys I’d be looking at. But hey if they get an offer they’d better go for it.

  21. unca_chuck said, on July 6, 2017 at 10:47 am

    Craw gets a pass for the off-field shit he’s dealing with. The rest are young enough to still have shit left.in the tank. Besides their deals are prohibitive. But they do have to make whatvver moves come their way.

    • Lurker John said, on July 6, 2017 at 11:33 am

      Pardon my insensitivity, but does losing your sister in law really blow up your whole season?

      • Flavor said, on July 6, 2017 at 2:01 pm

        Agreed. It shouldn’t.

    • unca_chuck said, on July 6, 2017 at 12:41 pm

      Well, I’d imagine his home life pretty much is a huge downer.

  22. djloo27 said, on July 6, 2017 at 10:52 am

    Is Belt a good fit for any contender?
    Yanks need a 1B now but maybe not long term.
    Their prospect (Bird) is injured….

    • willedav said, on July 6, 2017 at 11:24 am

      he’d be perfect there and solve 1b for length of his deal. As Flav said tho, key is what Yanks have that could help Giants and whether Evans would be able to get it done.
      He actually did well last mid season I thought–it was off season that sucked.

  23. zumiee said, on July 6, 2017 at 11:07 am

    It’s best not to dwell on the fact that Stratton was a first round draft pick.

    • zumiee said, on July 6, 2017 at 11:12 am

      Brian Johnson keeps calling him a young guy. Stratton turns 27 in August.

  24. willedav said, on July 6, 2017 at 11:33 am

    Devil’s advocate spin: This is what Evans thought going in:.
    I’ve got Nunez for 3b healthy Panik IF plus Posey is all good.
    Span and Pence will be healthier/hit better and LF will sort itself out somehow.
    4 good SPs and Cain.
    FLR and I signed legit closer! add some savvy vets for bench Hill Hundley Morse Gillaspie we’re good to go.

    Now as to where he went wrong (almost everywhere) and how he tries to fix it, the month after AS break should tell. I don’t think he stays pat but it will be interesting to see what he can get/how much help it really is.
    Otherwise, trying to spin next year gets tougher.

  25. alleykat69 said, on July 6, 2017 at 11:35 am

    Problem with the Giants philosophy over the years they wait so long to call up a prospect their not a prospect anymore due to their age..

  26. Macdog said, on July 6, 2017 at 11:41 am

    Flemm & BJ talking about Game 3 vs. Tigers, I wish they’d show some highlights from that WS and less from today’s game.

  27. unca_chuck said, on July 6, 2017 at 12:44 pm

    Ouch. Forgot the game was on. Chris Stratton is pitching like Dorothy Stratton . . . post murder . . .

  28. zumiee said, on July 6, 2017 at 12:53 pm

    Cueto gets paid about $750,000 per start. That’s an expensive ear-ache for the Giants today.

  29. zumiee said, on July 6, 2017 at 12:56 pm

    The Brewers are pounding the Cubs today. Nice.
    Schwarber is back up to the big leagues.
    Bryant’s not on the All-Star team. What a difference a year makes.

  30. unca_chuck said, on July 6, 2017 at 1:22 pm

    Ahhh, wondering WTF Stratton was pitching today . . .

  31. blade3colorado said, on July 6, 2017 at 6:44 pm

    Next in line against the Marlins is Moore (runs). Ugh.

  32. djloo27 said, on July 6, 2017 at 8:44 pm

    Overheard blasting from Bochy’s office today…

  33. James said, on July 6, 2017 at 10:45 pm

    One of the miracles of 2017 is Craw’s RBI total. He’s an RBI machine, he may suck, he’s still clutch! Not really. Over the last 3.5 years, Craw has had an incredible 164 more baserunners on during his PAs than the average player with the same number of appearances (this includes the AL). This explains his relatively gaudy RBI totals despite decent, but hardly great OPS numbers. He’s been a lucky SOB. This year, he’s been up 278 times and has had 202 runners on compared to 165 for the avg. major leaguer with that many PAs. By way of comparison, Belt has been up 353 times and has had 186 runners on, 24 fewer than the ML avg. Perhaps Belt should consider also publicly thanking the sky deity when the opportunities arise.

  34. theroooster said, on July 6, 2017 at 11:02 pm

    LOL, that dumb, crooked hat wearing, Katniss Everdeen imitating Fernando Rodney did it AGAIN against the Dodgers.The 3rd time, with his 3rd team – couldn’t hold a 3 run lead – total meltdown. Dude should learn how to wear a baseball hat. LOL. No stoopid fake arrow tonight. LMFAO, what an idiot.

  35. mrsprtdude said, on July 7, 2017 at 12:27 am

    Rooster that’s funny! I still hate the Dodgers but they are kicking ass right now.

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