THE San Francisco Giants Blog

I Took The Bait

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on August 10, 2017

Nice little break today as we head off to slaughter in Washington DC. Chris Stratton getting sacrificed in Game 1.

Saw that Gorkey’s vs Billy Ham comparison on the last thread. Good comedy. Question: Assuming Gorks led off and assuming he played in the same park as Billy Ham do you really think he would produce nearly the same amount of runs? Billy Ham is standing on 2nd base all the time, often 3rd base, because of his prolific stealing ability. Gorks would be stranded at first base repeatedly. It’s absolutely absurd to think Gorks and Billy Ham would produce close to the same amount of runs unless you think it’s as easy to get a guy in from first base as it is from 2nd or 3rd and nobody could actually believe that……

And Billy Ham is one of the best center fielders in the league. There is no comparison between the 2 except with goofy saber stats that anyone can find if they want to believe something bad enough…..

I’m probably 40 miles away from SF and there’s a little league field maybe 500 yards from my house. I’m starting off to work this morning and who do I see directing traffic in the little league parking lot? It was like a weird dream.

Screenshot 2017-08-10 at 9.06.52 AM

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  1. willedav said, on August 10, 2017 at 7:43 am

    bottom line if you aren’t better hitter than Gorkys, then baseball is definitely hard for you and I’ve liked all kinds of guys who really aren’t very good.
    . Giants have way too many .650 OPS bats/ 1 WAR players in the LU on regular basis including 3 OFs, one part of losing equation. That said, getting better pitching, from SPs and pen, has them playing .500 ball over last 38 games. Maybe they get closer to not losing 90-95 games.

    More curious what Giants plans for Parker Slater Shaw next year. If Span is still around and Bochy is telling him prepare to play LF in ST next year, who covers CF?

  2. willedav said, on August 10, 2017 at 7:55 am

    guilty as charged— I love goofy saber stats, like OB and OPS ones I posted that show they are both equal with slight edge to Hernandez(!) at the plate.

    Baggs mentioned this: rematch of Strick/Harper. Would Bochy bring him in late game to potentially do that?

    • Flavor said, on August 10, 2017 at 7:59 am

      That will be the story line with the most intrigue this weekend. Of course, the game has to be close, preferably with the Giants leading late, for Strick to make it in to the game. How many of these games do you think we will be leading late? I’m guessing zero, I think we get ignominiously swept this weekend…..Three games, 2 of our worst pitchers going. They are starting 2 of the best in the league….I’ll say we lose this series 24-7 and it might be worse than that….

  3. Flavor said, on August 10, 2017 at 8:03 am

    that could be a fun game to play. Throw out your guesses for cumulative score this weekend vs the NATs and include opinion if you think we WON’T be getting swept. Winner gets a twinfan computer. Ha. Those were the days, those were the days….

    • chipower9 said, on August 10, 2017 at 9:42 am

      Those were fun days! That was a very cool contest for the hot rod computer that Twin built and donated to the cause. I miss seeing that old cur (meant as a term of endearment in this instance) here.

  4. unca_chuck said, on August 10, 2017 at 8:34 am

    I remember when Chris Weber was traded to the Bulletts for Tom Googliota, their stats were fairly similar. But really. Googs and Weber? Right.

  5. Macdog said, on August 10, 2017 at 8:39 am

    I’m seeing TBD listed for Nats pitchers all weekend. The only certainty seems to be Scherzer, who pitched on Monday, but it doesn’t look like Strasburg will be back this weekend.

  6. dirtnrocksnomo said, on August 10, 2017 at 8:51 am

    Hamilton is younger with more upside and just plain better than Hernandez. Hard to see how that is even debatable.

    wille raises and interesting question about Parker/Slater/Shaw for next year. I think Parker’s recent performance is a mirage and he’ll return to sucking but there will still be an open competition for LF in spring. With Slater being a right handed hitter it would be good if he wins it. Belt may be done for good so maybe Shaw splits time with Posey at 1b. For all the suckitude of the club this year I think one legit stick could reorder the line up, put Posey in the 3 hole, push guys like Crawford and Pence down and it could be a better offense. Where will Booby find the bat? Maybe Panik, Strickland & another minor league arm would make it work.

  7. James said, on August 10, 2017 at 9:11 am

    Billy Hamilton has the second lowest OPS of any starter in the NL. He is a lead off man with an OBP lower than Joey Gallo. He plays in a band box and in a year when the ball is juiced and the league OPS is 750, his is a laughable 634. He has been thrown on the bases 9 times, which offsets much of the positive effect of his stolen bases, i.e., those are times he might otherwise have scored runs (it’s just like getting thrown out trying to take an extra base on a hit). When you steal second, you have not hit a a double, i.e., you have not driven in the extra runs that hitting doubles produces. Billy Hamilton is not a very good player — that is an objective fact.

    • Flavor said, on August 10, 2017 at 9:14 am

      so you think it’s as easy to drive in runs when a guy is on first base than if he’s on 2nd or 3rd. Got it.

      • James said, on August 10, 2017 at 9:42 am

        No, that’s not what I said. When you are on first 9 times, there is a good chance you will score some runs. When you get thrown out, you don’t score. When you are on second, there are many times you don’t score. There are also times when you score on a home run, or double in the gap, the pitcher walks the next two guys etc., in other words the stolen base didn’t help create the run, getting on base did. All of that means that there are far fewer *extra* runs Hamilton creates than it seems with his SBs beyond what he creates by simply getting on base. Stolen bases are disappearing for a reason — they’re not particularly useful for creating extra runs.

  8. Flavor said, on August 10, 2017 at 9:16 am

    and his job isn’t to drive in runs it’s to score them (as well as play GG calibur D) so making it to 2nd or 3rd IS important.

    • James said, on August 10, 2017 at 9:43 am

      His D is the reason this otherwise minor league player has the 0.9 WAR, suspect as the stat is.

    • chipower9 said, on August 10, 2017 at 9:46 am

      But, he has to get on base first, and a .634 OBP for a lead-off guy just pure sucks. Not saying he is better than Gorks, etc., but purely looking at a lead-off guy, .634 is awful. Absolutely, when a guy does get on, there is value in moving up a base.

      • dirtnrocksnomo said, on August 10, 2017 at 10:42 am

        I’d say .634 OBP is pretty good.

      • chipower9 said, on August 10, 2017 at 11:41 am

        LMAO…you are correct. I meant OPS.

        His OBP is .297 (both for this year, and lifetime). That is NOT a good OBP for a leadoff guy.

  9. dirtnrocksnomo said, on August 10, 2017 at 9:23 am

    Hamilton and Hernandez are both marginal players with defense being their main contribution. I don’t see Hernandez ever making this type of play.

    http://m.mlb.com/news/article/247209588/reds-billy-hamilton-makes-another-great-catch/

    • willedav said, on August 10, 2017 at 11:58 am

      My comparison was as a hitter. If I told everyone I wanted more hitters that put up numbers just like Gorks, um I’d be laughed off blog.
      He is a fine CF, but where is D Lewis these days?
      Given how well BH runs, maybe Reds should put a stopwatch on him on his way back to dugout after another groundout/pop out/K.

  10. sandog said, on August 10, 2017 at 9:41 am

    Great debate on Gork and Hamilton. Seems to me they are very comparable players.
    By the way, I think Gork deserves some credit for dragging his ass off the deck and getting his average up to the .260 range after being so awful at the beginning of the year. I agree with Loo and others that he should not be a part of the Giants future, but I am impressed with the way he has hung in there this year. At one point, I felt like the 2 guys on the planet who wished they would get fired and put out of their misery were Gork and Spicey.

    • Flavor said, on August 10, 2017 at 11:02 am

      Agreed. Gorks and Parker have really shown me something this year. Unlike Mac. Whatever happened to him?

      • chipower9 said, on August 10, 2017 at 11:48 am

        Not sure. I think he has been hurt while in Sacramento, with a rehab in San Jose (recently, I believe). The dude just cannot stay healthy.

        His stats for Sacramento this year:

        72 game, 300 PA, 276 AB, .225 .283 .377 .660 with 9 HR, 35 RBI, 86 Ks, 21 BB.

        I still think in the long-run, Parker is, and will be, the better player. I don’t see Parker as a starter…but if he can perform as he has of late, I can certainly see him as a solid 4th OFer.

  11. unca_chuck said, on August 10, 2017 at 10:17 am

    Like saying ET McGee wasn’t good because he didn’t drive in runs. He had plenty of years where he’d drive in less than 50.

  12. unca_chuck said, on August 10, 2017 at 10:51 am

    Spicey and Mooch. There’s a hit TV series in there somewhere.

    • Flavor said, on August 10, 2017 at 11:01 am

      I miss Mooch. Need to know who’s trying to suck their own cock in the WH at all times. Now? I’m flying blind trying to figure it out.

      • zumiee said, on August 10, 2017 at 11:05 am

        Mooch is one of those characters that starts off in a TV series and then mysteriously disappears, kind of like Richie Cunningham’s older brother on “Happy Days.”

      • Flavor said, on August 10, 2017 at 11:16 am

        he’s on twitter now saying he thought that convo was not being taped.

      • zumiee said, on August 10, 2017 at 11:46 am

        He wasn’t a very bright Communications Director.

  13. alleykat69 said, on August 10, 2017 at 10:51 am

    I still am amazed the Year Tom Herr had for the Cards in 85… .302 avg 0nly 8 HR’s but knocked in 110 runs .380 obp and 795 ops now that’s a solid year out of your 2nd basemen..

    • willedav said, on August 10, 2017 at 11:53 am

      Cards and turf ball which thankfully is all but gone (Tampa and Jays I think).
      Funny how Ozzie Smith was a .220 for the Padres and suddenly could hit .300 on the turf at STL.

  14. sandog said, on August 10, 2017 at 11:50 am

    Williamson has had hardly any at bats in the bigs this year, which is ridiculous. He should be playing. I know he isn’t going to develop into a star, but I think he could be a platoon guy who puts up decent numbers. This is the time to figure out if he is even capable of that. Is he hurt again?

    • chipower9 said, on August 10, 2017 at 2:29 pm

      I believe he was recently hurt again, SanD, and had a rehab in San Jose. I agree…think he has potential to be a good platoon guy, but he can never seem to stay healthy. I do recall the HR he hit the night we were all at YankMee Stadium. Highlight of his career as far as I know…

  15. Flavor said, on August 10, 2017 at 11:58 am

    So would you rather have a leadoff hitter get on base at a .330 clip and just stand around on first base like Gorks and Span (not that they get on base at that clip, I actually didn’t check what their OBP is) or would you like a leadoff hitter get on base at a .297 clip and end up at 2nd or 3rd base 45 more times? And before you answer, that .330 guy is getting on base a measly 3% more often than Billy Ham.
    Bottom line, what Hamilton does when he gets on base gives his team a better chance to score runs than the guys who get on base and stand around on first base waiting for the line to move them along.

    • chipower9 said, on August 10, 2017 at 1:43 pm

      I would rather have the guy who steals more bags, all else being relatively equal (OBP, AVG, SLG, etc.).

  16. unca_chuck said, on August 10, 2017 at 12:14 pm

    Yeah Dog, Mac’s been languishing in Sacto since July 10th. 3 RBIs since he was sent down. His numbers are pretty underwhelming.

    • alleykat69 said, on August 10, 2017 at 12:48 pm

      Like Jed said about Marc Trestman during at the end of the season conference: “HE’S GONE” that will be Mac Williamson..

      • zumiee said, on August 10, 2017 at 12:53 pm

        I think Eddie D said it.

      • alleykat69 said, on August 10, 2017 at 2:34 pm

        Yeah it was Eddie thanks Zumie, went brain fart..
        But I still stick with it that’s Mac’s days are numbered..

  17. willedav said, on August 10, 2017 at 1:23 pm

    I just don’t think leadoff is that big a deal. If you have crummy hitters/low OB guys they are going to hurt you, and if you have more good ones throughout the LU with better OB/OPS you will score more runs regardless what particular order they are in. What is hurting the Giants most to me when it comes to scoring runs is having too many bad hitters in .700 OPS and under range on daily basis…no matter if they are GG fielders or not.

    • chipower9 said, on August 10, 2017 at 1:45 pm

      Agree. But if you have a half-way decent line-up, especially 2-5 or so, then I do feel that your lead-off guy is important. For the Giants, not so much because their line-up sucks pretty much up and down.

  18. chipower9 said, on August 10, 2017 at 1:48 pm

    To Flav’s 8:03…

    I think we probably get our asses handed to us and swept by the natty nats. But, would not be completely surprised if the Giants scratch out one win, but the chances are slim-to-none…

    I predict a run differential of 22-8, nats. Fuck those cocksuckers…I don’t care how good they are, or aren’t.

    And I hope there is a close game and Strick gets in the game…especially if he gets to face dumbfuck harper. That alone would make the entire series IMO.

  19. Macdog said, on August 10, 2017 at 4:08 pm

    Giants to face Jackson, Scherzer and A.J. Cole in D.C.

    • Flavor said, on August 10, 2017 at 5:16 pm

      Really? ESPN has Stras going Sun

  20. unca_chuck said, on August 10, 2017 at 4:48 pm

    . . . And Slim just left town.

    I think we win one. Cumulative score?

    22-8. Natty Ices of course.

    • Flavor said, on August 10, 2017 at 5:17 pm

      feels like we’re all gonna come in on the same part of this venn diagram

  21. djloo27 said, on August 10, 2017 at 5:29 pm

    It’s smart of Lou Seal to have a second job. He’s had a quiet year and could very well be part of the off-season shakeup…

    • Flavor said, on August 10, 2017 at 5:32 pm

      He was all-in on that car parking gig. I even yelled “Lou!!!” from my car to get him to look but he was too focused up with the parking director job to care

      • djloo27 said, on August 10, 2017 at 5:40 pm

        I wonder if somebody’s done a book about the personal lives of mascots. I used to ride the subway home to Brooklyn with the late Bobby Comas – A.K.A. “The Chief”. He was a fixture at Ranger games for years. He could be cheered or viciously abused depending on the mood of the crowd…

      • Flavor said, on August 10, 2017 at 6:26 pm

        that’s actually a fabulous book idea. Kokonuts?

  22. alleykat69 said, on August 10, 2017 at 7:33 pm

    I don’t know why but I still crack up over Crazy Crab 🦀. Took a lot of abuse, maybe cause the team stunk too, they had to take it out on someone.. What I thought was funny was the “eyes looked like a pair of jiggly tits bouncing back and forth”


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