Two Things
Number 1: I’m not sure how accurate the “get tickets” link at espn is, but this is a telling indication of how far we’ve fallen as well as the zero shits our fans currently give about baseball in the Bay:
Number 2: In honor of the Indians comeback last night, here’s what your hundy would have done had you bet on them in game 1 of this historic winning streak and kept rolling it into each game thereafter:
Number 3: it’s fucking early.
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Not saying Bochy is the answer to turning things around, but the blow up high intensity guys rarely last too long. You can’t do that every day and players just tune it out. Baseball is too long a season for it with a lot of fail for every hitter; they can’t get too down or up.
Durocher and Billy Martin types wore out welcome pretty fast and their teams usually went downhill after early success.
my point is that when things are going down, when he doesn’t have players performing at a winning level, he basically has nothing. He’s powerless, he’s just another guy sitting on the bench spitting seeds and slapping asses.
The Twins lost 103 games last year under Molitor. With basically the same team he’s got them to 74-69 this year. That’s managing.
Doesn’t that a lot to do with having a team of young players that are getting better as they gain experience?
I doubt it is because Molitor is giving better pep talks and pressers this year or getting sufficiently pissed off at the right times.
Is there any point in analyzing how the 100 loss ’85 Giants turned things around so quickly in ’86? Can you compare how baseball teams were built and re-built 30 years ago to today’s game? Without looking anything up, I’m pretty sure Will Clark, Robby Thompson, and Roger Craig were the main reasons back then, but there had to be others less obvious. Then the big trade in ’87 put ’em over the top…
If we had the farm system like we did then, there’d be hope. THe cupboard is bare however.
Looking it up, Maldonado was another good addition with 18 HRs and 85 RBI.
Article in the chron re: Bochy and the losses.
http://www.sfchronicle.com/giants/article/After-Bruce-Bochy-s-long-summer-what-does-the-12199178.php
The gist:
Bochy also has to manage a clubhouse filled with diverse personalities, which is tougher when a team loses. Indeed, The Chronicle has learned there is some frustration in the room over how Bochy interacts with the players.
The season weighs on the 62-year-old, as any 57-91 team would weigh on a manager, especially one who has tasted success this decade to the tune of three World Series titles and reached the postseason as recently as last year.
Bochy has been trying to exercise patience and believe in a brighter future. He hasn’t let heart-related issues distract from his daily duties and vows to return in 2018 and do what he can to return the Giants to prominence.
Two Giants players, who asked to remain anonymous because of the sensitivity of the topic, offered specifics, saying Bochy has turned more negative over the past two seasons, particularly in the dugout.
“It seems like nothing we do is good enough,” one player said.
The other player, confirming his teammate’s assessment, said, “There’s just been a different vibe.”
Happy Friday all. Speaking of cheap seats, I went to the Kershaw game on Tuesday and scored a club level seat for 14$. Taking my Giants fandom away from the situation, it was cool to watch Kershaw work. Thats the first time I’ve ever seen him pitch in person and it was a thing of beauty.
I also drank a little too much and bid on a Will Clark autographed jersey from one of the memorabilia auctions that they have there. I won and that’s going to be fun explaining to my wife.
I don’t really know why Boch would want to come back to this mess. Other than maybe he wouldn’t want to go out on such a sour note, but I don’t see this thing turning around in the next 2-3 years or so. Maybe he should hang up that size 8 1/4.
And of course I posted this before I saw the post above
That article is not exactly earth shattering news.
Only two guys said anything remotely negative. Though, I doubt the Chronicle writers approached Woodward and Berstein in terms of digging. I’m with BF, Bochy is great when he’s got great Pen guys. He can make the moves, outfox the other manger.
When he’s got a crap situation, he’s not a genius anymore. Maybe nobody would be, but we won’t know that. Looks like we’re in for more of the same next season. It can’t possibly be this bad again. But, I’m thinking .500 will be a tough goal to hit, after they make a few moves, and hope for the best, while the Cubization of this team continues…
At least the Dubs season is on the horizon.
Should be a good one. Anxious to see if that kid from Oregon works out, could be another Draymond on the defensive side.
I haven’t seen anything about Kerr and his health, maybe that’s a good thing.
If they can stay healthy into the playoffs, they should be the favs to win again.
The other day Stan Van Gundy said something like ‘nothing is stopping the Warriors this season. They are so much better than the rest of the NBA.’
Yep, they re-loaded, and then some.
Would that the Giants ownership were like Lacob. He really wants to win, and it’s not just BS.
What would be the equivalent of Dubs playing a guy like Gorkys for major time? Probably most of the guys they played while Cohan owned ’em…
I saw a little bit of incremental improvement from the Kings last season. I just want to continue to see progress.
That’s my feeling about the Niners, too: just show me some progress.
The stuff about negativity within the Giants make me think they really miss Flannery. I think he was sort of the yin to Bochy’s yang. ‘Good cop/bad cop’ type of thing. Bochy relied on Flannery to be the “up” guy. Plus, he was Bochy’s good friend. Bochy’s probably just feeling kind of lonely, too.
Roger Craig was very good at working with the younger kids. I think that had something to do with the turnaround from ’85. I haven’t seen any evidence anywhere in his career that Bochy is good at working with young kids or a team that isn’t very good. I’m happy to look at any examples you think I’m missing.
Well, tickets are going for $2 tonight. If that doesn’t set off sirens in Baer’s office nothing will. I’m really hoping the season ticket holders rebel by bailing, nothing else will get thru to them. Franny was on KNBR yesterday (he sucks btw, totally condescending to the fans, makes me miss Tolbert terribly) saying the front office doesn’t need to lose 100 to know they need to blow this up. Um, that would be in direct contrast to what the front office has been saying (tweaks needed, nucleus in place).
From the Chron article:
“Bochy has support within the clubhouse, and nobody can question the Giants’ level of effort on the field even as the end of the nightmare season draws near. That reflects on the manager.”
Say what? Can’t question the level of effort on the field? Did these guys not watch the last two games against the Dodgers? Misplays in the field, bad baserunning, lifeless at-bats — this shit’s been going on all year. And that most definitely reflects on the manager.
who wrote that article? That fucking nut licker Schulman?
Schulman and John Shea.
Sarge—how much did you bid on the W Clark jersey? We gotta know. Great story! Dodger fan buddy of mine did the same thing years ago. It was some kind of silent auction for the jerseys the players were wearing on the field that day. Had a few beers in him and got carried away, putting in several bids on different jerseys hoping to end up with one. I think he ended up 3 of them and a hefty bill to pay. Glad to hear you got a good deal on a club seat and could appreciate Kershaw—-an all time great, basically.
325
Davenport was just a lame duck hire that didn’t work out obviously, but that team was similar to this bunch in that every player had a down year, Chili, Hac Man, the pitchers etc throw in David Fucking Green at 1st they were doomed from the beginning.
Robby& Will came up the next year and with Craig clearing out the malcontents who bitched about the Stick’s weather and turned into a positive instead of a negative the turnaround started fast, that and the Mitchell,Dravecky,Lefferts heist from the Padres…
Well said. This was also the beginning of the Al Rosen era and, as several of us have said on here before, he was huge in the renaissance of the Giants.
In that article Boch very clearly says this is his life, he’s not going anywhere, all that’s needed is a few tweaks. So, we are totally fucked for years to come.
He’s a baseball lifer. Totally agree Bichy has not shown an ability to deal with rookies very well; and remove Posey from that, he came to MLB as a polished player that any decent manager would handle well. I just hope fans vote with their checkbooks, that’s the only thing ownership will pay attention to…
Maybe all that’s needed is a catchy rallying cry like “Humm Baby!”
Krukow and Garrelts were very good in 86.
Yeah but I was talking about the shit sandwich 85 season James when Krukow was 8-11 . Actually Garrelts was the staff leader at 9-6 mostly out of the pen..
Cone of Uncertainty: http://bit.ly/2x2SpJq
Excellent, Pawlie…
Agreed
tnx
Loved the Cone of Silence on Get Smart. ” What, Chief? Shut up, Max! WHAT !? ” …
(tweaks needed, nucleus in place).BF says that’s front office opinion. Ok- -but what/who is the nucleus? Crawford and Panic? Bum and Posey??
I don’t see ANYTHING to build around. Maybe the #1 draft pick.
This really is grim. Seriously thinking of cancelling my DTV baseball package. First time since they started offering it. I have rooted for shitty teams all my life. 49rs at Kezar when Gayle Sayers scores 4-5 touchdowns in one game during the Moribito sisters era. Golden State with Al Attles coach. Then move to Tampa for the 3rd season of the Bucs. Then TB Devil Rays. Lots of losses totaled up by those teams. I feel this is the first time I don’t give a shit win or lose.
At least GF likes the warriors, so my $$ is headed that way. Maybe if I’m reincarnated as a snail/slug in the Santa Clara Valley I’ll check on the Giants again…..Sigh
OSF
The nucleus is everyone under contract for next season.
Sayers scored 6 TD’s in that game.
The Giants and Niners haven’t won enough titles for you?
Even your TB Bucs got one…
Loo, there were a lot of losses mixed with that Buc SB. The 49rs won all those titles after I moved to Tampa area. They were sweet, tho.
OSF
One of the all-time great quotes came from Head Coach McKay of those terrible early Tampa Bay Buc teams. After yet another loss, in the post-game press conference, this exchange happened:
Reporter: How do you feel about your team’s execution?
McKay: I’m all for it.
Attles won a championship in 75. The Niners last year at Kezer and first 2 at the Stick they made the playoffs.
Did you stop paying attention then?
I didn’t re-up for the DirecTV baseball package this season. I get all the Giants and A’s games on the Comcast Channels, plus all the MLB games carried by the MLB Network, ESPN, and Fox Sports. That’s enough baseball for me on TV.
Plus the few Giants games that are on the local affiliate.
You can stream every single game you want to watch on your computer. Out of market, in market, no blackouts. Get yourself a good monitor and your all set.
I figured the Dodgers would do well today, and probably tomorrow. The Nats aren’t throwing a good starting pitcher at LA until Sunday. Dodgers caught a break on that.
Chi isn’t around, he’s competing in one of those dog competitions and apparently his dog is winning right now. He’s pretty stoked on facebook. I have no idea what the dog does in these competitions but he’s apparently pretty good at it and his name is Buster.
two bucks for a ticket tonight. Anyone going? lqtm…
Let’s do it. Flapa2$a tonight! Lqtm
i’m not gonna be responsible for you having to explain $650 of Will Clark jersey to your wife. 🙂
We don’t want that. Well I don’t. This is why sarge doesn’t go out unsupervised very often.
3-1 Indians bottom of third. Watching the Tribe these days. Sigh
We just don’t have anything like a Lindor. Young, exciting, athletic player.
Giants don’t draft or sign them. They could have had Abreu, but ChiSox paid more. How is it they outbid the Giants, who have way more revenue??…
$2 ticket to get in means a few brews are doable. Needed to watch the squad on the field…
Dusty the Lizard still going strong with that damned tongue twirling toothpick act.
https://media3.giphy.com/media/AggujdhdCsCAg/200.webp#0-grid1
Dunno what young kids bochy had to work with this year, or last year either for that matter…Parker Mac and Slater all got hurt, so did Arroyo. Shaw wasn’t brought up so he could play winter ball instead.
He’s left Jones in there and played him at 1b and supposedly more now at 3b. Other than Calixte who else is there? Specs takes over for Panik and Craw and has played some 3b too this year.
His young guys on pitching staff didn’t fare too well tho to be fair neither did the vets or the SPs.
Among other things, think of all the dumpster dive flops that were his options when his vets were failing him to begin the season—Hill Marrero Morse Ruggiano Stubbs Hwang and of course the lone backup CF, Gorks. Good luck managing that collection of stiffs.
Since Scutaro, what position player of any value has been brought into the team…Marlon Byrd? deAza?
Does Bochy have no say on the roster moves; on what the team needs? I don’t believe for a second that Evans and Sabes make roster and draft moves without Bochys input and team players assessment. This debacle has to be partly on Bochy…
this is hugely on Bochy if for no other reason than because he really believes that the team will be fixed in a few tweaks.Anyone with this dumbass mindset needs to hit the bricks.
If Bochy jumped up and down after last season and yelled at Evans — Gorkys Hernandez, Mac, Parker, Span — are you fuckin’ with me?, get me some goddam outfielders! And he still got Gorkys and Marrerro and other stiffs on the opening day roster foisted on him over his objection, then OK, Bochy doesn’t take heat. I don’t think that happened. But, if it did, well, then Bochy really loves the game for its own sake, I guess…
Melancon had the forearm surgery today. Nice first season on his $64 million deal. Damaged goods from the get go…
Chief Wahoo’s band if Indians went down to defeat tonight.
They used this one from 1946 through 1950 :
His teeth are perfect!
i actually think the one from 1950 might be ever so slightly less racist than the one they use now.
I’m convinced that the feather in the current version is a big middle finger aimed directly at you and me
the Giants are in grave danger of overvaluing their *championship pedigree*. That isn’t gonna do shit in today’s new game. It means we have a bunch of solid vets who don’t get too high or too low. Great. We need to find some *Francisco Lindor’s* and other studs who can hit the ball out of the yard. If we’re going to tweak anything it should be the pitching, I’m fine with Bum, Cueto and Smarge. Even Moore if he can get his head out of his ass. The bullpen is what it is. There is some hope there if Melancon and that FLR come back healthy.
But the bats? We need younger hitters who are right handed with power. That’s not just a tweak…..
The Giants have allowed 734 runs this year, in large part because of the starting staff. Here are the runs allowed totals of the 10 ML teams with the most wins, many of which play in very live yards:
525
520
609
655
584
598
650
705
608
635
The Giants’ pitching needs more than tweaks.
tell that to your main man Bochy
http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s480x480/e35/15538931_545397012326925_7769331706565230592_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTQwNTkzNTUyMDc2OTcxODIzMg%3D%3D.2
I know it’s pressure on them, but the Giants front office just can’t blow the high draft picks they’re going to get in the next couple of years.
Frank Vincent passed away, “Now go home and get your f*ckin’ shinebox.” Classic.
I’ve never seen that show. I missed it somehow.
I think Joe Pesci beat him up in at least 3 movies…
Oh, was that line from “Goodfellas”? I should have known that.
The great Harry Dean Stanton died today. 91. Cool Hand Luke, Paris Texas, Repo Man, et al. He was also a good musician. His collaboration with Ry Cooder on Across the Borderline is a heartbreaker that I”ve been hearing in my mind of and on since Trump got elected.
And don’t forget Hüsker Dü’s Grant Hart, dead at 56. A nice tribute: https://humanizingthevacuum.wordpress.com/2017/09/14/youll-have-light-and-youll-never-be-cold-grant-hart-rip/
Nice article; thanks! My favorite Husker Du album is Warehouse.
I used to do the garage-band jam thing many years ago. “Ice Cold Ice” was one of our favorites to play together. We were all fans of the band, and of the first few solo albums.
I left off at New Day Rising and picked it up again with Sugar’s albums. Shoulda kept listening.
There must be something to this dying craze.
Everybody’s doin’ it…
40,000 men and women every day
Don’t fear the reaper
Doubtful Pence makes that catch…
Blanco might’ve
another dispiriting game
I was real sad to hear Harry Dean Stanton died as well… Aure he was 91 but still . . .
Repo Man is one of my favorite movies,
Someone needs to repossess the 2017 Giants.