THE San Francisco Giants Blog

How to Boldly Get Out of This Mess

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on September 21, 2017

WAB is up to .439 which is not a good sign for all those games the Giants were supposed to lose with that replacement player after Belt went down (According to WAR). If the Giants win one more game this season (out of the 9 remaining) they ensure a better record without Belt than with him. I wonder if Sabes will be factoring this little know peripheral stat into his decision to jettison Belt or not in the off season?

Unfortunately Belt is untradeable with his bloated deal kicking in next season combined with his concussion issues. If he were healthy he would be one of our few decent trade pieces. His OPS is valued and he would be much more productive on another team.

Looking at the major league ready talent we have to offer in a trade there is exactly ONE player who has dominant trade value and that’s Bumgarner. Please don’t say Posey. He’s been fine this year (*good enough*, *serviceable*, whatever) but his power stroke is basically gone (Hello Joe Mauer) and he’s owed 84 million over the next 4 years—not sure how many teams are looking to fork over a bunch of prospects for that.

Panik and Crawford? Eh, I think we value them more than other teams. In fact, I know we do.

There’s no one else. If Sabean doesn’t step in and take the wheel from Evans and trade Bumgarner there’s really nothing he can do to fix this.

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  1. willedav said, on September 21, 2017 at 6:53 am

    I think the Giants could still trade Belt this offseason once he’s healthy, and could have dumped off Pence and Span maybe at deadline, IF they had been willing to send salary relief along to other club.

    Problem there of course is Evans claiming lux tax ate his team again like he did last year after signing Melancon and then going dumpster dive everywhere else. They already I’m hoping plan pay Cain $7 mil not to pitch 2018.

    Also reason I have some reservations about option for Moore. He puts his offensively challenged team in a big hole almost half of his outings. So out of 30 starts, you are really only getting 10-12 decent ones (I will look his Giants numbers up later). Rags has had the guy for over a full year now, so what you see, 5.20 ERA pitching half his games at ATT, is what you get.

    I think Giants could get similar season out of Stratton/Beede and use the $9mil for a productive position player who is at least better than Gorkys Hernandez off the bench.

    Btw, did Giants really hold Arenado to an 0-for ATT series? Kinda funny to see him grab his helmet with both hands after fly out to LF Tuesday night.

    • Flavor said, on September 21, 2017 at 7:35 am

      I’m betting Moore is much better next year but I agree, if he puts his team in a big hole half his outings he’s definitely not worth it.

  2. unca_chuck said, on September 21, 2017 at 7:24 am

    Oh they can trade Belt but it’ll be for basically nothing.

    Panik is the only traceable piece. I don’t think the team will dream about trading Craw.

    Bummie is the most intriguing. He has more value as what he was, not what he’ll become.

    • Flavor said, on September 21, 2017 at 7:36 am

      Giants and Angels had talks about Panik near the deadline. Talks ended quickly. I think we value him much more than other teams. And that’s actually one of our biggest problems– we overpay for our own guys, rarely free agents. Over paying for your own guys is a big red flag you over value them. It’s obvious actually and doesn’t even need to be said.

  3. mrsprtdude said, on September 21, 2017 at 7:48 am

    No way anyone can know if belt is healthy so very unlikely we get any value. We are still screwed because if Belt Craw Panik (or anyone else) start well next year front office will say “see we told you last year was a fluke”, and overvalue our guys even more! Augh

  4. zumiee said, on September 21, 2017 at 8:57 am

    On the MLB Network yesterday they were talking about the trend towards power relievers in this juiced-ball era. Strikeouts are highly valued in pitching, more than ever. Unfortunately for the Giants, just as this era was hitting its stride, they signed a closer who pitches to contact. And now he’s got a foot-long surgery scar on his pitching arm and months of re-hab ahead of him.

  5. snarkk said, on September 21, 2017 at 9:20 am

    The critical thing this org needs to do this next year is kill it in the draft. Because next season they are screwed. They’ll have the first or second spot, so they need to draft can’t lose studs in the first 3 rounds. Will they draft at least one outfielder? I’m not betting on that…

  6. snarkk said, on September 21, 2017 at 9:27 am

    Flemm on KNBR this morning said Giants are basically screwed next year and until they get more HR competitive in this HR era. Said you can’t give up such a big HR disparity to the league and expect to contend. The runs numbers don’t work, regardless of good defense and ATT. He was very strong on that. Basically echoing BFs POV. My POV for a while too. Conga line is BS. The only way to get power is pay, since isn’t any below except maybe Shaw…

    • Flavor said, on September 21, 2017 at 9:31 am

      excellent, it’s nice to see a homer like Flemm (as well as a very intelligent Stanford man) come around…..

  7. snarkk said, on September 21, 2017 at 9:31 am

    Flemm also all but admitted the ball is juiced. Reduced size and height of the stitching makes ball fly at least 20 feet farther than before per him. That is friggin enormous…

  8. Flavor said, on September 21, 2017 at 9:37 am

    GH turning the Big 50 today. Happy Birthday my man!

  9. willedav said, on September 21, 2017 at 10:18 am

    There is still other side of equation. dodgers and DBax both allowed over 100 fewer runs than Giants did, and AZ is a hitters yard with a fast and very hard IF. Guys like Blach and Moore, 200 innings at ERAs 5.00-ish, aren’t the solution imo they are part of the problem unless there is dramatic improvement. Both teams had more than one SP with ERA under 3.00. How come Giants don’t have anyone like that?

    Even if the Giants added Stanton, which they aren’t, they aren’t going to score enough runs to make up the difference if they don’t pitch better. Bum Cueto Smardz OK. After that, pen included, has to be better.

    There was a funny column I read yesterday about Jane Goodall’s comments on alpha male chimp behavior, as compared to the person in charge of our country.

  10. unca_chuck said, on September 21, 2017 at 11:22 am

    When it absolutely positively means nothing, Moore is the guy you want out there.

  11. alleykat69 said, on September 21, 2017 at 11:30 am

    Lqtm… Moore pitches like a bad can of Dinty Moore…

  12. zumiee said, on September 21, 2017 at 11:50 am

    Last night’s episode 4 of Ken Burns’ Vietnam War documentary series could have been titled: “Insanity.”
    It’s a jolt, in this series, to see how early the American leadership knew it was a lost cause, as stated in their private memos and recorded conversations. But like a gambling addict, they kept gambling, trying to win back what was lost, but losing more.
    So much tragedy and heartbreak.
    I can only imagine the anger that some people are going to feel watching this series. It makes ME angry, but I didn’t live through it in the same way, being a kid at the time. I wonder if TF is watching this series.
    In some distant day, someone is going to do a similar documentary series about U.S. involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the lid will be blown off those stories, too.
    There have been some really good Vietnam War documentaries over the years; but the Burns crew knows how to take the viewer into a deeper connection, by using individual stories mixed in with the bigger historical information.
    And there’s an art to interviewing people and drawing out their stories and recollections.

    • djloo27 said, on September 21, 2017 at 1:56 pm

      I’ve been watching it, Zumie. I can’t sum it up any better than you did. Like most of the country (and kids my age) I had little awareness or knowledge of anything that went on prior to the LBJ administration. The phone conversations (some of which I’ve heard before) are astounding…

  13. zumiee said, on September 21, 2017 at 12:08 pm

    Turner leaves the game after getting hit by a pitch. He hangs over the plate, what does he expect?

  14. unca_chuck said, on September 21, 2017 at 12:57 pm

    They knew back in the mid-50s that it was a lost cause. I just watched the first one, and I had no idea the role Ho Chi Mihn played as the leader of the independent Viet Nam disintegrated into civil war and chaos. He was on our side early on, as we were the model he wanted to follow for independence.

    Gen. Westmoreland should have been jailed and shot for his role in the escalation of the war.

    As a side note, my wife’s boss was a pilot in Viet Nam and he politely said “Nope, not watching”. Her uncle (and godfather) was a chopper pilot in Viet Nam. Very nice guy, but some of the stories he told were absolutely horrifying. He got a couple of bronze stars for his trouble. Sadly he passed shortly after my wife and I got married.

    • Flavor said, on September 21, 2017 at 2:50 pm

      Westmoreland came to Lewis & Clark to speak to about 1000 of us (1990) and he barely finished the speech. Lots of angry liberal college students that day.

    • zumiee said, on September 21, 2017 at 3:09 pm

      I could see some Vietnam veterans not wanting to watch the series because of possible emotional triggers. The series is very intense, the footage often very graphic. The music used in the series adds to the intensity. Trent Reznor, of Nine Inch Nails, does some of the music for the series. And songs from the era are used. The use of Simon and Garfunkel’s “The Sound of Silence” in last night’s episode was very emotional.

      • zumiee said, on September 21, 2017 at 3:11 pm

        After each episode, I’ve had to spend some time decompressing, either reading something entirely different, or watching baseball highlights on the MLB Network.

  15. unca_chuck said, on September 21, 2017 at 4:25 pm

    2 of my sisters lost friends in that war. As bad as the US got it,’the French lost twice as many men. Why we refused to see what they went through is tragic to say the least.

    • theroooster said, on September 21, 2017 at 4:48 pm

      Francis de Marais: Why don’t you Americans learn from us – from our mistakes? Mon Dieux! With your Army, your strength, your power, you could win if you want to! You can win!
      Hubert de Marais: The Vietnamese… we worked with them, made something – something out of nothing… We want to stay here because it’s ours – it belongs to us. It keeps our family together. I mean, we fought for that. While you Americans… you are fighting for the biggest nothing in history!

  16. zumiee said, on September 21, 2017 at 6:19 pm

    Looks like the Dodgers might clinch against the Giants; not the ideal scenario for Giants fans. But the Dodgers are something like 6-15 this month. They are still trying to get their stride back. It may just be good old-fashioned tiredness. It’s such a long season. After they clinch they’ll probably do wholesale resting of players. They seem to have the NL homefield wrapped up. Cleveland may end up with the World Series homefield (if Cleveland makes it that far.)
    It’s amazing to me that I used to be really concerned that the Dodgers were going to break the season wins record.

    • Flavor said, on September 21, 2017 at 6:23 pm

      concerned with it? Shit I was rooting FOR it. Woulda been a spectacular foot note to their ultimate collapse.

  17. djloo27 said, on September 21, 2017 at 6:40 pm

    Guess most of you Merc readers caught this:

    • zumiee said, on September 21, 2017 at 8:48 pm

      Great article; thanks!

    • snarkk said, on September 21, 2017 at 9:06 pm

      Timmy was Magic.
      They need to have a statue of him with that long stride firing a split to the plate.
      Put it in place of the Gaylord Perry statue…

    • snarkk said, on September 21, 2017 at 9:17 pm

      Related Timmy story. Amusing. Timmy was a good dude.
      At his peak, he wasn’t afraid of a big moment. Not at all…

      • zumiee said, on September 22, 2017 at 2:19 am

        More great stuff; thanks.

    • pawliekokonuts said, on September 21, 2017 at 9:41 pm

      that is one fecking helluva good article . . . thanks . . . underscores the difference …a team with personality and one without

      great read

      • pawliekokonuts said, on September 21, 2017 at 9:41 pm

        I was referring to the DJLoo link; haven’t seen the other one yet

  18. pawliekokonuts said, on September 21, 2017 at 9:13 pm

    This topic depresses me, as has the whole season, practically from Day 1.

  19. zumiee said, on September 22, 2017 at 2:43 am

    The Giants have to go 3-6 to avoid 100 losses.

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