THE San Francisco Giants Blog

Not Enough

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on December 21, 2017

Absolutely nothing Giants-related will happen today. Zero. Squat….That seemed to work yesterday. Anything happen yet?

KNBR afternoon guys were celebrating the Longo pick up but it was a pretty short sighted analysis. In fact, everyone supporting this trade seems to be just focusing on what Longo will do next year. There has been very little consideration of how his inevitable decline, which may have already started, will effect the team going forward.

This is a tough one. I like Longo a lot. He’s a great team guy, got a little pop, hits a lot of doubles, plays good D—he’s the prototypical SF target. And I do think our team is better with him. And I was not that high on Arroyo so losing him doesn’t bother me at all.

This just feels like a desperate move to try to stay relevant for a year. Longo is trending downward. We need more.

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  1. djloo27 said, on December 21, 2017 at 6:08 am

    As salaries escalate the Giants long term commitments will start looking smaller.
    I’ve already heard people say Stanton’s deal is a relative bargain…

  2. Flavor said, on December 21, 2017 at 7:53 am

    One thing to consider, especially if they add Bruce, is what effect if might have on the other hitters in the LU. I doubt Bochy would do it, but if he would move Belt up to the 1 or 2 spot and then Posey, Longo, Bruce were behind him, that could really do a lot for the actual run production not the *implied*runs scored…

  3. unca_chuck said, on December 21, 2017 at 8:03 am

    Moving Belt up to the 2 hole at least makes his walks a little more relevant. But they still need a lead-off guy. And yeah, they’ve pretty much admitted their only course of action is to sign semi-relevant players on the downside of their careers because they have no chips for the big players and no way to trade the ones they have. Bummie and Panik excepted. Beyond that, Longoria will be wrapped up in the real salary dump in 2-3 years when all these contracts come due.

    Hopefully by then Bell has done something with the farm and we have some ships to play with.

  4. sandog said, on December 21, 2017 at 8:18 am

    I don’t love the trade. I was hoping Arroyo would be handed 3B soon and given a chance to develop. It would have been one small step in the direction of turning over the roster and getting younger. But there is no arguing that Longoria brings qualities we need and makes us better in the short term. Gonna be interesting to compare their careers going forward.

    Who would you guys rather add between Bruce and Cain?
    I think you know what my preference would be.

  5. dirtnrocksnomo said, on December 21, 2017 at 8:52 am

    Cain only because he’s hits from the right side. Bruce because he won’t cost picks. Austin Jackson fits just right.

    It would be great to see Belt batting second. I don’t think Bochy would ever do it but he puts Pence at lead off for long stretches so go figure.

  6. pawliekokonuts said, on December 21, 2017 at 8:56 am

    I’m with you. Arroyo did not impress me. Longo [hero of my first book] is an *imporvement*, but his trend is downward. Whose isn’t?

  7. Flavor said, on December 21, 2017 at 9:04 am

    I’d rather have Cain. I’m not a big Bruce guy (or a Longo guy). But again, adding Bruce makes us a little better. I’d support it.

  8. alleykat69 said, on December 21, 2017 at 9:40 am

    I can’t believe Bruce is only 30?
    I thought he came up with Andre Either…
    Astros have pretty much said Bruce isn’t a fit so see him in orange&black looks like the plan..
    Need that CF with a shitload of speed to cover both LF&RF gaps..

  9. dirtnrocksnomo said, on December 21, 2017 at 10:47 am

    Giants will pick up one more position player at most so it may as well be a CF that can lead off and then sort out the rest of the outfield between Pence, Slater, Hernandez, Wiliamson, Parker (who sucks) with Shaw having to force his way into the mix.

    Anyone think they add to the BP or Gearrin, Melancon, Dyson, Smith, Law, Osich/Okert is it?

    • alleykat69 said, on December 21, 2017 at 11:19 am

      Smith won’t be ready till May, so yeah add Timmy for the pen..

  10. gianthead said, on December 21, 2017 at 11:07 am

    Listening to mlb channel on sirius last night, they played the clip of Jay Bruce’s agent on KNBR extolling how much he wants to play for the Giants. Loves the team, stadium and City. And he is also willing to take less years maybe 4 year deal and possibly less money to play here.

    Now that is the type of motivated player I want on my team!!! I wish someone in the front office could have that light bulb go off in 2016 before the trade deadline when we could really have used him and his bat.

    I can see Bruce now realistically in orange and black and is he willing to really take less money as low as something like $10 mill first-year and then escalating for 3 more years for $50 mill total?? Couldnt we all give him a $10 mill signing bonus that then is pro-rated to count against the cap?

  11. gianthead said, on December 21, 2017 at 11:15 am

    I cant see Panik not being the natural #2 hitter and I still think Dyson will be our CF.

    Sandog…not giving up our 2nd round pick which will be in the low 40s if we sign Cain and also lost something like 10 spots on the other picks. Not going to happen.

    And if Bruce takes less up front and Dyson at something like $4 mill this year and $6 mill next. Bautista at an incentive induced $7 million would give us a whole new OF and Pence backing up Bautista and Bruce, especially against lefties is within $202 million or so…

    • gianthead said, on December 21, 2017 at 11:19 am

      Also agree that the FO has no clue on a rebuild and will never will do it.

      Why? Because they want 30,000 butts in seats every night…they are not willing to do anything to upset that real apple cart.

      • gianthead said, on December 21, 2017 at 11:25 am

        And he smells the grass…

        MLB Trade Rumors: Yankees’ Ellsbury could waive no-trade clause for Giants

        Laughable but again I am in if they add Clint Frazier and take Belt and his contract. Taking Pence for his remaining year is not enough unless Yanks eat up most of the remaining dollars. But Clint Frazier is a must regardless and then leads to not having to get Bautista. I still see Jay Bruce coming.

      • djloo27 said, on December 21, 2017 at 11:59 am

        So is anything involving Bruce and/or Ellsbury dependent on unloading Pence?

      • dirtnrocksnomo said, on December 21, 2017 at 12:14 pm

        No chance of moving Belt until he shows he can play post concussion.

    • djloo27 said, on December 21, 2017 at 12:00 pm

      Panik was all over the LU last year, but Bochy has generally believed that 2nd basemen must bat second…

  12. djloo27 said, on December 21, 2017 at 11:34 am

    At least there’s some action now!

  13. willedav said, on December 21, 2017 at 11:46 am

    Frank Zappa’s b-day today, hilarious m/f led countless different great groups
    And uh yeah watch out where the huskies go..

  14. zumiee said, on December 21, 2017 at 11:58 am

    Bochy batted Belt in the second spot a few times before Belt’s latest concussion. It’s a nice fit for Belt, but it seemed like Bochy was doing it very grudgingly. Bochy’s old-school, and batting a firstbaseman in the second spot just goes against his grain.
    Whereas Maddon and other progressive managers do that kind of thing all the time.

    • zumiee said, on December 21, 2017 at 12:00 pm

      And yes, Bochy has three rings, and is going to the Hall of Fame, and will always be much beloved and given huge well-deserved respect. But, the game can pass anybody by. It’s the nature of sports. Sports evolve.

    • willedav said, on December 21, 2017 at 12:29 pm

      maddon also used to lead off with Schwarber.
      Giants problem last season imo wasn’t the order of the LU, it was the underperforming guys in it.
      At least they’ve added one decent bat to it.

    • willedav said, on December 21, 2017 at 12:36 pm

      you do have to be able to put guys in productive spots. Craw Pence Parker Ryder Jones Sando all these guys that hit behind Posey last year were awful. Why would any team pitch to him, other than fastballs away, if he’s only guy in LU that can hurt you? Get better hitters!…and flat NO to defensive first guys at any position.

  15. willedav said, on December 21, 2017 at 12:38 pm

    @SD: Zags in town vs. Tecs tonite. You going?
    Disappointing preseason for Zags St. Mary’s and most highly rated Pac 12 teams too that took some bad losses. Mtn. West going to be tough conference that has already done some damage.

    • sandog said, on December 21, 2017 at 2:24 pm

      Had to turn down a free great seat from a friend who works in the athletic department at SDSU as my mom and sister are in town for the holidays. Will be watching on TV for sure.

  16. unca_chuck said, on December 21, 2017 at 1:28 pm

    Belt’s last full season (2016) he had a .396 OBP. Good enough to bat 2nd for me. Panik hasn’t been close to that. He can bat 6th.

  17. alleykat69 said, on December 21, 2017 at 1:45 pm

    The good news is are infield defense will be one of the best in baseball..
    The bad news is we have flyball pitchers..

    • zumiee said, on December 21, 2017 at 3:50 pm

      And a lot of the flyballs keep travelling right on over the fence.

  18. Flavor said, on December 21, 2017 at 5:03 pm

    I was surprised at how much shit Barry’s sells of his old shit.
    https://www.barrybonds.com/collections/all-products?utm_campaign=BBgcdeal121917&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

    • xoot said, on December 21, 2017 at 5:09 pm

      I’ll bet it’s Nikolai’s primary job and source of income

  19. unca_chuck said, on December 21, 2017 at 5:24 pm

    Holy shit. I had no idea. Wonder hoew many ‘game used’ bats he has.

  20. Flavor said, on December 21, 2017 at 5:55 pm

    What world am I living in?

    • alleykat69 said, on December 21, 2017 at 6:11 pm

      And then 2 double my offer my good friend who to the whole rap for me in prison Greg “Rear End”Anderson during Balco Investigations will autograph some of my used syringes another $30.00 value.
      But wait theirs more, I’m in the Christmas Holiday spirit,so I’m going to throw in free shipping (just use a fake address) and your special package 📦 can still be under the tree 🌲 for Christmas!!!

  21. blade3colorado said, on December 21, 2017 at 6:45 pm

    The Giants paid a small luxury tax for their 2017 payroll and have positioned themselves to slide under the $197 million maximum in the year ahead. Sabean, has been on record as saying he does not want to surrender the draft pick compensation attached to some of the prime free agents — like outfielder Lorenzo Cain and third baseman Mike Moustakas, so that’s not happening. The Giants designed a blockbuster trade for third baseman Evan Longoria that would reduce their costs in the year ahead, but which I am adamantly against (because it basically means they are going to “reload” and I can’t even begin to see how this will significantly improve them next season).

    Conversely, the Tigers have been dumping payroll all year, unloading Justin Verlander, Justin Upton, JD Martinez, and Ian Kinsler, among others. After compiling salary costs of more than $200 million in 2017, they are expected to have a payroll in the range of $130 million. This is what I would have done . . . Not happening, as Sabean and other brain dead FO personnel have consistently stated.

    In any event, I am curious on how this train wreck (my opinion) will play out. Grab some popcorn . . . It definitely won’t be boring. Umm, at least until the games start.

    • sfsarge said, on December 21, 2017 at 7:36 pm

      This!! I’m a mumble mouth emmeineffer but so this! In other words that was stated for more eloquently than I could have imagined.

      • blade3colorado said, on December 21, 2017 at 8:35 pm

        You’re too kind Sarge . . . Umm, I had to look up emmeineffer and couldn’t find it. What does this mean? German?

  22. pawliekokonuts said, on December 21, 2017 at 7:04 pm

    Someone told me Longoria went a month last year without an RBI.

    • blade3colorado said, on December 21, 2017 at 7:14 pm

      Forgot which Flapper said this (snarkk???) – Posey hit a total of 5 bombs after All Star game for last 2 seasons (not 1 season, but both).

      Wow!

      • snarkk said, on December 21, 2017 at 8:52 pm

        Yep, that was me…

      • blade3colorado said, on December 21, 2017 at 9:19 pm

        I just don’t see how he maintains the status quo next season. Him and the rest of this roster will get worse. Without PEDs, age is AGAIN a factor, especially for the Giants.

    • xoot said, on December 21, 2017 at 7:20 pm

      Longorias lowest month was August–10 RBIs

  23. blade3colorado said, on December 21, 2017 at 7:10 pm

    Two points of view regarding Longoria:

    Eric Karabell – Evan Longoria certainly helps a Giants team that lacked a third baseman, but statistically he’s not what he used to be. Not even close. Longoria was the No. 24 third baseman on the 2017 Player Rater. That’s not a top-100 player. Wasn’t even a top-100 hitter. Numbers should not improve for power or batting average in San Francisco. Still, Longoria is durable and can knock in runs if he hits third or fourth thanks to opportunity. He’s better than powerless Christian Arroyo, who isn’t a fantasy option even with regular playing time. But he’s a mid-round pick in fantasy, and that doesn’t change with this move.

    David Schoenfield – Evan Longoria should be at least a four-win upgrade over what the Giants were going to get at third base. Last year, their third basemen ranked last in the majors in average, home runs, RBIs and OPS. Longoria isn’t the hitter he was at his peak and is coming off his worst season at the plate, but he’s still a solid two-way player. The Rays get an overrated prospect in Christian Arroyo and two high-risk arms, but most importantly get long-term salary relief. It also makes you wonder if the Rays are now more likely to trade Chris Archer.

  24. sfsarge said, on December 21, 2017 at 7:41 pm

    Pretty much just getting my pre-concert skink on. I realize I’m the resident hip-hop fan here. But Method Man of the Wu-Tang clan and Redman are doing a show together tonight. This is a bucket list concert for me. Back when the Maritime Hall was the premiere venue for excellent concerts, they played and it was a legendary show that I missed. Talked about for years, so now here’s my chance to finally see them. Probably 15 years too late, but I’m gonna have a great time.

    • blade3colorado said, on December 21, 2017 at 8:39 pm

      That’s what I enjoy about the Flap – diverse interests and opinions.

      Enjoy the concert!

    • unca_chuck said, on December 21, 2017 at 9:09 pm

      Sounds like fun, Sarge. I felt the same way about Tom Petty. I saw him at Bottle Rock this year and hadn’t ever seen him before. Great show but I almost saw him in ’79, ’88 and 2003.

  25. zumiee said, on December 21, 2017 at 9:57 pm

    Dick Enberg passed away.
    I grew to really like his broadcasting work with the Padres. He was under-rated at baseball. Great great career, overall.

    • blade3colorado said, on December 21, 2017 at 10:17 pm

      Agree. I liked that he was humble – his ego didn’t have to be stroked, which allowed him to make the players the focus, as well as allow whomever he was working with (usually a former athlete doing “color”) to share the broadcast.

      Good guy. He’ll be missed.


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