THE San Francisco Giants Blog

One Big Hole Left

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on January 17, 2018

I think we need to pump the breaks a little on this Gorkey’s/Duggar CF platoon idea. Where did that even come from? Duggar looks to be cut from the honkiest of ivory bone and I’ve never understood the Gork’s thing.

But if you told me a month ago that finding a center fielder would be our biggest problem going into spring training I’d say you crazy.

Re-loading this team was the right move. The only long term thing I’m worried about is if the Giants give Bumgarner 300 million dollars. That would just be a massive mistake. There’s a pretty wide chasm between Bum’s actual value and his perceived value. I think there’s a decent chance he bounces back from his motorbike mistake year but after that…..Somehow we need to let that dude walk when he’s free but I don’t think Baer will be able to let him go….

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  1. Flavor said, on January 17, 2018 at 7:36 am

    listened to an extensive interview with Longo on KNBR this morning. Not surprisingly, he sounded quite polished.

  2. willedav said, on January 17, 2018 at 7:43 am

    As we all know, CF has been an issue for a while that Evans hasn’t fixed. idk if Slater could handle it since he got zero shot at it 2017 before he got hurt, but Duggar definitely not ready for ml pitching. Gorks had decent second half, but no. He’s Blanco lite, if that.
    Every time I saw Marisnick last year he looked very capable. He hit a bomb to dead CF in Oakland and showed range. Even a Grichuk I’d settle for. D first guys, um no.

  3. willedav said, on January 17, 2018 at 7:53 am

    In other news, Shake Shack burgers coming to south bay (Stanford Shopping Ctr.) and then SF later this year.
    Thoughts from east coast where they originated?
    They are in LA and SD…anyone tried them?

    One comment on article from Chron panned them, saying Habit etc. just as good if not better.
    I love Habit, very tasty and reasonably priced. Fries good too.

    • xoot said, on January 17, 2018 at 8:08 am

      Habit’s great. I often get the tempura green beans instead of fries.

  4. xoot said, on January 17, 2018 at 8:11 am

    I’m not real confident about the bullpen. But I’m fairly sure they’re not spending any more money there, so I guess I better get prepared to hope for the best.

  5. sandog said, on January 17, 2018 at 8:17 am

    I’ve been meaning to try Shake Shack, but haven’t made it there yet. Agree Habit is damn good—esp Santa Barbara style burger.
    I also would love to get Marisnick. Saw him up close at Petco one time and he impressed with his athleticism—runs very well. I like Grichuk too. You guys make it sound like he could be easily had. Is that true? I would have guessed the price for him would be fairly steep.
    Its not going to take 300 mil to resign Bum. I’m fine with letting everyone else on this team walk when their contract is due—including Cutch, who is basically a one year rental. But Bum I want to keep. As Loo has pointed out before, his pitching style will age well—and on top of that he is a San Francisco Giant Legend, and I’m not down with letting guys like that walk out the door.

    • willedav said, on January 17, 2018 at 8:24 am

      SD, I think both Stros and STL have glut of OFs and good prospects they’d prefer to hang onto; both need pen help. Kinda funny STL acquired Gregerson dunno how that guy lasts. Might cost Strick +, but doable.

      bum to his credit has never beatched about $$, so I’m hoping when time comes something fair could be worked out. I agree, trading him/letting him go FA would be sad day.

  6. unca_chuck said, on January 17, 2018 at 8:19 am

    5 guys is actually pretty good. Never been to Shake Shack. Whataburger is flat awesome tho.

    Yeah, they need to do something about the pen. Cheapo arms should be gettable. O’Crap an O’Shit were too much too many too often.

  7. blade3colorado said, on January 17, 2018 at 8:38 am

    Prior to the McCutchen trade the Giants had the worst projected outfield in baseball. Now it is merely projected to be eighth worst per FanGraphs.

    If the Giants are willing to blow up the luxury tax plan, they’re going to need a CF; 2 bullpen pieces; another starter, and a bench . . . Oh, and pray for a few comeback seasons from either Crawford, Cueto, Melanoma, Madbum, Belt, and/or Pence.

    In the interest of full doomer disclosure, I did read where according to the number-crunchers at FanGraphs, the Giants are the projected second NL wild-card team at the moment. Seriously. 😉

    • djloo27 said, on January 17, 2018 at 2:32 pm

      The nickname “Melanoma” is growing on me…

  8. unca_chuck said, on January 17, 2018 at 8:47 am

    Starter isn’t a glaring need at this point. CF and the pen is. They still have to address at a a minimum, CF.

    • blade3colorado said, on January 17, 2018 at 8:52 am

      Disagree . . . We’re currently replacing Moore with probably Blach, who had a 4.78 ERA (87 ERA+) last season and posted the lowest strikeout rate (4.01 K/9) by a qualified starter in five years. Stratton impressed last year in limited time (3.68 ERA and 114 ERA+).

      Neither Beede nor Gregorio has pitched in MLB yet.

      • gianthead said, on January 17, 2018 at 9:22 am

        I think that is a trade deadline need for a starter if they are in the hunt. Not breaking the bank yet for a starter and relievers. I am pretty confident that the pen will be much much better..

    • unca_chuck said, on January 17, 2018 at 9:27 am

      6-15 isn’t that hard to replace is all I’m saying. Moore flat sucked balls. Stratton should be fine as the 4. Blach and Beede can fight for the 5. Fi they have a pulse, they should be better than Dinty Moore.

  9. sandog said, on January 17, 2018 at 9:17 am

    Bochy is usually pretty good (last year being an exception) of making Chicken Salad out of Chicken Shit when it comes to the bullpen and I think he can get back to that this year. I’m not that worried about it.
    I think Blach is a fine #5 starter and that is why I wish we never traded Moore—who I think was a better option for #4 than Stratton. Yeah, another starter would be nice, but I’m going ok with rolling the dice on Strat and Blach as 4 and 5.

    • gianthead said, on January 17, 2018 at 9:24 am

      But Dog…they needed to save the money on his contract to make the McCutch deal and still have room for a CF option of the Dyson/Hamilton caliber…

  10. gianthead said, on January 17, 2018 at 9:17 am

    I have said that I think Bum is the one lock for the Hall of Fame…I think he can throw 7-8 more years with 30 starts easily. I would put 6 years and $150 mill on the table and I can totally see…”Um…sure Hoss!!!” I want to see him in the Hall of fame as a Giant and the Mad Dog statue at ATT…

    • sandog said, on January 17, 2018 at 9:23 am

      Not sure about HOF, but everything else in your post I fully support.

      …as for 5 Guys, I don’t think it is that special. There is one down here in Pacific Beach and nobody ever goes there. (and its not because its too crowded , as Yogi would say)

      Whattaburger has been on my list for about 30 years. I need to finally try that place.

      • unca_chuck said, on January 17, 2018 at 9:29 am

        Maybe it’s because my son would make custom burgers for himself and me when he worked there. They were great.

      • gianthead said, on January 17, 2018 at 9:32 am

        Knew I liked Chuck and his family for a reason…

  11. Flavor said, on January 17, 2018 at 9:26 am

    If Bum makes the HOF it will be for what he did in the post season, not the regular season. He hasn’t been a HOF pitcher in his regular season career.

    • gianthead said, on January 17, 2018 at 9:30 am

      I don’t argue…but 7-8 years as a starter gets him to 200 plus wins…I think he comes back with a monster year. A solid defensive CF behind him and the current makeup of the IF, I am predicting 200 innings and 20 wins…not sure about SO. May make more use of getting balls in play and lower pitch counts..

  12. gianthead said, on January 17, 2018 at 9:28 am

    Ok being the first east coaster to post about Shake Shack for WD…

    There is a reason it is called Shake Shack…the shakes are awesome…the burgers meh.

    I am a 5 Guys lover. It started here in the mid-Atlantic in MD and VA and still think It is quality quality quality.

    As a kid, I still have find memories of freshly grilled Whoppers…the new versions are getting better…and the old Carl’s Jr original Western Bacon Cheeseburger…ooohhh lah lah!!!

  13. unca_chuck said, on January 17, 2018 at 9:31 am

    Kirk’s in Sunnyvale was the bomb. There might still be one around, but they had a huge open mesquite grill to cook the burgers on. The best ever.

    • Stan Shell said, on January 17, 2018 at 4:39 pm

      Wasn’t there a Kirk’s in Campbell?

      • willedav said, on January 17, 2018 at 8:13 pm

        still is on S. Bascom near Dry Creek. Awesome shakes.

  14. unca_chuck said, on January 17, 2018 at 9:33 am

    Yeah, if Bummie gets over 200 wins with an ERA under 3 he’ll be in the Hall.

  15. dirtnrocksnomo said, on January 17, 2018 at 9:45 am

    Seems like there is an over saturation of burger joints. There was as Steak and Shake in my neck of the woods that crashed and burned in less than 4 months. As far as chains go, I like In-N-Out, The Habit & 5-Guys. but if I’m going to put garbage in my pie hole, McDonald’s basic cheeseburger still rates pretty high up there.

    Considering all the moves so far, I’d be fine with Gorkys out there with whatever money is left filling out the BP. Isn’t Blanco still out there? Not the best idea but I wouldn’t be surprised to see him come back to platoon in CF.

  16. Macdog said, on January 17, 2018 at 10:05 am

    I like 5 Guys, they always serve plenty of fries, and there’s a binful of free peanuts! Smashburger isn’t too bad, either. I’ve never been to Shake Shack, although the Mets fans I know who go to the one at Citi Field seem to like it.

  17. unca_chuck said, on January 17, 2018 at 11:47 am

    Mooyah’s in the Creek is the best burger joint near where I live.

    • sandog said, on January 17, 2018 at 11:51 am

      My cousin owns one of those! I think his is in Burlingame or somewhere like that.

  18. djloo27 said, on January 17, 2018 at 2:36 pm

    Amazing how pizza and burgers are bigger than ever.
    No one talks about hot dogs much…

    • gianthead said, on January 17, 2018 at 3:25 pm

      Funny Loo…some guy on local sports talk just ranted yday about the under appreciation of dogs…I lived on Weinerschnitzel as a teenager.

  19. dirtnrocksnomo said, on January 17, 2018 at 2:53 pm

    That’s true, dj. There’s a Wienerschnitzel near my place. Before I moved here I hadn’t seen one of those in years. Don’t see many A&W’s anymore either.

    • gianthead said, on January 17, 2018 at 3:27 pm

      Well times comment Dirt

    • wilcojoe said, on January 17, 2018 at 3:33 pm

      Loved Weinerschnitzel as a kid. Never understood why they don’t have more locations.

  20. gianthead said, on January 17, 2018 at 3:20 pm

    ok here is a fantasy…this long-legged blonde…

    Real fantasy… I see Red Sox playing hardball JD Martinez…5 years $100 mill. What if we jumped in and did something like 6 years and $136 mill. Give him $36 mill signing bonus (you all will have to tell me how this is handled for luxury tax purposes…does it count for $6 mill a year?) and let’s say major league minimum first year. Then it is just 5 years after and $100 mill remaining, which is what the Sox have on the table, or $20 mill a year average.

    Then add in Dyson cheaply up front for $3 mill or Jay. I think that would put us over the cap just by $4 mill or so.

    JD would get the bulk of his starts in left over Pence and at 1b against lefties. Pence is not part of next year’s plans so I have no worries about losing starts. Dyson apparently cannot hit lefties so would actually be reasonable against lefties for McCutch or Gorkys/Slater to get those starts and you cam stick Pence in right and JD in left. Slater/Gorkys/Parker also defensive replacement for JD ….great fantasy and we get a true cleanup…

  21. wilcojoe said, on January 17, 2018 at 3:31 pm

    Texans are fucking obsessed with Whataburger. With the dill pickles, raw white onions and mustard only, your mouth puckers like you bit into a lemon as soon as you take a bite. I just don’t get it.

    In N Out is great if your constipated.

    • gianthead said, on January 17, 2018 at 4:09 pm

      Lol…I have same thoughts on in and out and I never had a worst middle of the night experience on the John than after White Castle…the worst…

  22. wilcojoe said, on January 17, 2018 at 3:38 pm

    The two restaurants of my childhood that I miss the most are Bob’sBig Boy and Sizzler. I know there are still a few left in SoCal, but I am not sure about the Bay Area.

    • gianthead said, on January 17, 2018 at 4:08 pm

      Mmm loved Sizzler…the toast is still ummatched…

    • dirtnrocksnomo said, on January 17, 2018 at 4:11 pm

      I was a big fan of Bob’s Big Boy & Foster’s Freeze too. Sizzler? no thanks.

  23. gianthead said, on January 17, 2018 at 4:06 pm

    Sorry accidentally posted this just now to yday’s thread…

    I actually just looked up John Jay’s numbers. I discounted him as an option because not as speedy as Dyson nor Hamilton but he had a far better year than either of them. Hit .296 and on .375. Much higher than Dyson/Hamilton. And he played 141 games last year. He probably cost less and wont have to give up jack in prospects…much better than Gorkys…

  24. djloo27 said, on January 17, 2018 at 4:37 pm

    Sabean would never have 2 Dysons.
    He runs a tight ship…

  25. Flavor said, on January 17, 2018 at 5:00 pm

    i had a 5 guys the other day, first time in a year. It was outstanding. I don’t eat their fries, I’m allergic to peanuts so the oil fucks me. After 5 guys I’d probably go with *make my own*. I like to fry up a burger with bacon folded into it. Da bomb.

    • dirtnrocksnomo said, on January 17, 2018 at 5:19 pm

      My oldest has a peanut allergy as well. I’ve never put this to the test but have heard that the high temperature of the oil when frying negates the allergic reaction. Ever heard this?

      • Flavor said, on January 17, 2018 at 6:37 pm

        yes. But I too don’t want to put it to the test. I’m sure I’d be fine, it’s a mild allergy. I get a rash all over my body. Don’t want to risk it, peanuts aren’t that great.

  26. djloo27 said, on January 17, 2018 at 6:17 pm

    I’m allergic to Silly Putty.
    Devastating in 1963…

  27. Flavor said, on January 17, 2018 at 8:11 pm

    Beedah Alert. Looks like he’s starting to do baseball related shit again.

    • willedav said, on January 17, 2018 at 8:21 pm

      This is guy is teaching? Remind me again what his ERA was in the Coast League.

  28. willedav said, on January 17, 2018 at 8:25 pm

    Good test for surprising Stanford vs. ASU. They are a 4 guard team that should have problems defending Cards inside. ASU plays fun uptempo style but wow they take some bad shots. Some of them go in but decision making kinda hard to explain. Surprised that a hardass coach like B Hurley can stand it.

  29. blade3colorado said, on January 17, 2018 at 9:34 pm

    Anyone else wondering about the glacial pace of free agent signings? Me? I think it’s collusion (especially after reading a fascinating Jeff Passan column), where one league official said this about the current state of labor relations . . .

    “Of course it doesn’t make sense,” a league official concurred. “We pay you the minimum for three years and arbitration for three or four years, and then you get paid more in free agency for your decline?”

    • willedav said, on January 18, 2018 at 7:22 am

      mm idk collusion seems a little strong. Lot of Boras guys out there and he’s asking for the moon in terms of $$$/years. That’s his job, but doesn’t seem like contenders, the teams that ordinarily would be most likely to go all out to win, are taking the bait. Plus a lot of top teams are pretty well set already.

      At same time btw the lux tax and the QO penalties for signing a player like L Cain that turned one down, there is significant downside to going after certain players. I’m sure Giants (and others) would have been busier if not for these 2 factors

      If the owners are getting smarter, and since players are getting smaller and smaller slice of revenue pie these days it does seem that way, the union needs to negotiate a better deal next time around.

  30. Stan Shell said, on January 18, 2018 at 7:47 am

    Willie, that burger joint on S Bascom was about 1/2 mile from my H.S. residence. Ate there regularly in ’56. Seems crazy if it’s still there.

    • willedav said, on January 18, 2018 at 8:17 am

      And the re is a Foster Freeze on Camden, re opened “under new mgmt.” Haven’t been there. Used to hit the FF one that was on Homestead by N. Blaney, best pineapple shakes ever.

  31. snarkk said, on January 18, 2018 at 8:51 am

    I’ve had a 5 Guys burger. Eh, ok. For the high price, not that OK. Habit’s pretty good, you pay a little more than In N Out. For best value/taste combo fast food burger, I’m down with In N Out.
    I’m not into paying $6+ for a burger unless I’m sitting down in the place for a while, and somebody’s serving me…

  32. snarkk said, on January 18, 2018 at 8:52 am

    Speaking of hot dogs, I never get a burger at a ball game. A dog, or brat/sausage on a roll. A burger at a game doesn’t seem right to me…

    • unca_chuck said, on January 18, 2018 at 9:33 am

      No cha cha bowl? Crab sando? The brisket sandwich by the little tiny kid field is pretty good . . .

  33. unca_chuck said, on January 18, 2018 at 9:21 am

    5 Guys is very hit-or-miss. Went back once to the WC location since my son stopped working there and it wasn’t as good.

    The place I miss dearly was the Sirloin and Brew. If the mob guys from Bay Meadows weren’t hanging out at the Van’s in Belmont, they were at Sirloin and Brew on the El in San Mateo. Dark as fuck and high-backed thick red upholstered booths. The highlight was the 64 oz. bucket of cold beer and a greasy steak for $6.99.

    • dirtnrocksnomo said, on January 18, 2018 at 10:03 am

      Is the Cheese Steak Shop still in WC? Used to hit that place a lot.

      • wilcojoe said, on January 18, 2018 at 11:23 am

        I know that The Cheesesteak Shop in Concord is still there. Right next door to Caspers Hot Dogs on Clayton Rd. Now that brings back memories!

  34. alleykat69 said, on January 18, 2018 at 9:56 am

    Yeah Chuck Sirloin &Brew was lengedary for a crappy steak but all the brew are sangria you can inhale lol..
    Kirks I think you mentioned was an awesome sirloin burger on a French roll with all the fixings on University Palo Alto.I believe they have a new location in the Stanford shopping center on elcamino which I haven’t tried but will…

    • unca_chuck said, on January 18, 2018 at 11:15 am

      Haven’t been to the Cheese Steak Shop. Gonna have to try it.

      Kirk’s is still around? Damn. Got to go there. My mom loved that place.

  35. zumiee said, on January 18, 2018 at 11:21 am

    Just out of nowhere, I want to say how much I appreciate the Flap and all the Flappers. This site is a real cool oasis to come to. You folks are awesome.
    I regret my inflammatory comment last year, and only hope Loo forgives me of that. I was way out of line. I have huge respect for Loo and for all of you.

    • Stan Shell said, on January 18, 2018 at 11:37 am

      Zumiee, I too enjoy looking in here for comments. Don’t make many comments since not sure anyone gives a shit what I say. Think BF is still pissed at me for the flame shots TF and I exchanged. I look here now for the latest Giants news. MLB Trade Rumors is close to worthless. You guys somehow smoke out the coming news. Rock on.

      • zumiee said, on January 18, 2018 at 11:47 am

        Well, just about all of us have had our “moments” on the Flap. 🙂

  36. zumiee said, on January 18, 2018 at 11:28 am

    Some of the national sports media have the Giants back in the playoff conversation. Pretty interesting.
    Having watched so much bad baseball from the Giants last season, it’s going to take some seeing the proof in the pudding. A new centerfielder would be a big help….

    The season preview magazines are arriving soon; but with so many free agents still unsigned, that makes it tougher for the magazines.

    • zumiee said, on January 18, 2018 at 11:35 am

      It’s a perfect storm of factors working against the free agents this year. SABR GMs, luxury tax issues, etc.

  37. Stan Shell said, on January 18, 2018 at 11:43 am

    When I first posted here as OSF before BF bailed out of the old Chron blog, I was always ragging on, “Who’s going to play 3rd base?” That was before the three rings. Hope the similar hole in CF brings similar future results.

    • zumiee said, on January 18, 2018 at 11:49 am

      The Clubber! 🙂

      • zumiee said, on January 18, 2018 at 11:50 am

        The Splash was a crazy Wild West show.

      • zumiee said, on January 18, 2018 at 11:50 am

        It had some weird trolls on it.

      • zumiee said, on January 18, 2018 at 11:51 am

        Dodgers and A’s fan trolls.

      • zumiee said, on January 18, 2018 at 11:53 am

        And a guy pretending to be woman college student.

  38. Flavor said, on January 18, 2018 at 12:13 pm

    Zumiee, your 11:21pm was one of the best comments ever. Thanks for that. In life it would be great if more people were able to say stuff like that….
    And regarding OSF and Yogi and anyone else who comes back, I am all about 2nd chances. If you post here as true fans, not just of the Giants but of baseball, I am totally down with you staying. Turn into a troll and you must go. Pretty simple rules around here actually.

  39. willedav said, on January 18, 2018 at 12:56 pm

    Tho I disagree with him on best course of action there is quite a lot of truth to what Blade says about Giants needing a lot of bounce back performances just to contend. this is also why i’m opposed to a D first CF—the guys mentioned so far, even including JBJr of Boston, are really no better than 8th place hitters and Giants pitching isn’t good enough to be able to absorb crummy every day hitters in LU..

    • zumiee said, on January 18, 2018 at 1:34 pm

      Yeah, I think a lot of us would agree that Blade is basically right. But the Giants FO said they weren’t going to do that, and so we have to hope Plan B, the Patch-up, has a chance.
      I’m with those that have said just give me some decently entertaining baseball this season. And if all the cards magically fall together for a run at a Wild Card, then all the better.
      And……a new centerfielder would be nice!

      • zumiee said, on January 18, 2018 at 1:37 pm

        But I also see the downside to a complete tear-down. Frankly I don’t think I have it in me to watch the Giants do a complete tear-down.

      • zumiee said, on January 18, 2018 at 1:39 pm

        Of course, I say that knowing the Giants could go out and lose over 90 games again this season. Yikes, I hope not.

  40. blade3colorado said, on January 18, 2018 at 6:53 pm

    I hope I’m wrong on the Giants course of action, but I would be ignoring 1.5 seasons of historically bad baseball.

    Even if the Giants somehow are competitive next season, the 😈 devil will have to be paid eventually. The wilderness years can be delayed, but they’re happening. Book it.

    By the by, if the Giants face plant prior to the All Star game, do you agree that then it is time to rebuild? Or, do we buy more duct tape?

    • Flavor said, on January 18, 2018 at 7:39 pm

      i think we all agreed that a re-build would be the best course of action. The reality is that the brass has no intention of doing that and, even worse, has no idea how to do it. Let’s just see where this all goes before we doom them to an all star break face plant.

  41. snarkk said, on January 18, 2018 at 8:52 pm

    With Longo and Cutch, the FO probably just bought a mid-80s wins team. If, if the bullpen sucks it up and gets stout for the first time in 1.5 seasons. Starting staff should be more than passable. The bench, tho, fellas. The bench looks like a mess. Without adding a decent CF and some bench strength, everything has to break right to get to around 85 Ws, and a Wild Card I or II spot. This division is going to be too tough for the Giants to win it without more than adding just these two good sticks…


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