THE San Francisco Giants Blog

Not My Hall

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on January 25, 2018

Not a Hall of Famer?

Screenshot 2018-01-25 at 6.31.21 AM

If I’m a voter for entry into this dumbass place I would send my next ballot back with the word “unsubscribe” scrawled across the front of it….

Advertisements

88 Responses

Subscribe to comments with RSS.

  1. willedav said, on January 25, 2018 at 8:14 am

    Killion and Kroichick among locals who wouldn’t vote him in on their ballots.

    • unca_chuck said, on January 25, 2018 at 8:20 am

      Killion is an unmitigated hack.

      • xoot said, on January 25, 2018 at 10:04 am

        Killion’s the worst.

  2. wilcojoe said, on January 25, 2018 at 8:17 am

    Trivia: Since the Draft started in 1965, only two players selected #1 overall have been inducted into the HOF. Can you name them?

  3. unca_chuck said, on January 25, 2018 at 8:34 am

    At least one has to be a pitcher. Nolan Ryan?

  4. PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on January 25, 2018 at 8:41 am

    MVPs -1st. I might be wrong, but don’t the same people who vote on MVPs also vote on the HOF? If anyone voted multiple MVPs for Bonds, a “no” vote for the Hall shouldn’t even be an option for them.

  5. snarkk said, on January 25, 2018 at 8:41 am

    What happens when Ortiz is eligible for HOF?
    By and large, the baseball writers love the guy.
    If he gets in before Bonds, then the HOF will officially be a complete joke…

  6. zumiee said, on January 25, 2018 at 9:05 am

    I wonder how much of this is personal for some of the writers. Bonds was a jerk to some of them, so the steroids issue gives them cover not to vote for him. And so then they also reject Clemens because they don’t want to introduce the appearance of racial bias into the situation.

  7. snarkk said, on January 25, 2018 at 9:23 am

    I heard on radio this morning Costas comparing the steroid era to the segregation era of baseball pre-Jackie Robinson. Thereby justifying ‘roiders like Bonds being shut out of the HOF. Huh? The guy is a clown…

    • Flavor said, on January 25, 2018 at 9:37 am

      did he say it slowly with an affected voice and pause at random awkward times? That’s classic Costas.

      • zumiee said, on January 25, 2018 at 9:51 am

        Yeah, like when he says something that he thinks is funny, and he pauses to give the audience time to laugh.
        (Spoiler alert: the audience doesn’t laugh.)

    • unca_chuck said, on January 25, 2018 at 10:28 am

      The glaring difference being players in the Negro Leagues have been elected to the HOF, and they aren’t excluded because of that fact. I don’t see how the fuck comparing roids to pre-segregated baseball is relevant at all. If Negro League players were specifically denied entry to the hall, then sure, it’s a valid point. Since that isn’t the case, what is his fucking point? White players elected during segregated baseball should have an asterisk? Costas is an idiot.

  8. xoot said, on January 25, 2018 at 10:06 am

    Some writer yesterday said that Chipper Jones, in his post-HOF-announcement teleconference with the press, noted that he has said publicly, many times, that Barry Bonds was the best player he’s ever seen. Made me respect Chipper a bit more.

  9. Macdog said, on January 25, 2018 at 10:20 am

    Re Wilco’s trivia: Is Ken Griffey Jr. one of the two?

  10. unca_chuck said, on January 25, 2018 at 10:26 am

    Would you believe Ken Griffey, Sr?

  11. unca_chuck said, on January 25, 2018 at 10:38 am

    Mike Schmidt?

  12. sfsarge said, on January 25, 2018 at 10:55 am

    So I had the opportunity to have a nice conversation with Lowell Cohn a couple of weeks ago and I didn’t even ask, but he volunteered that Barry was the biggest a-hole he ever covered. So I’m sure he’s not the only person to feel that way. I really do think a lot of it is personal. If Barry had been nicer to the media I really think he would be in by now.

    • sfsarge said, on January 25, 2018 at 10:57 am

      He also gave me some other interesting insights into the Giants clubhouse

    • Flavor said, on January 25, 2018 at 11:00 am

      that’s interested, would love to hear more about that convo. Lowell comes across as pretty negative and vindictive in print (esp twitter), does he come across that way in person?

      • sfsarge said, on January 25, 2018 at 11:03 am

        Slightly, but i think he has mellowed out quite a bit since his retirement. He was a pretty easy going guy.

      • sfsarge said, on January 25, 2018 at 11:03 am

        When I have time I’ll post more about it.

      • sfsarge said, on January 25, 2018 at 12:23 pm

        The two biggest revelations I got from him were that Angel Pagan was a prick and no one on the team liked him. And Bochy is very hard on his coaches and the newbies. He said he has witnessed many butt chewings. And he didn’t really back up his coaches, hence all the shuffling around after the season. And you guys were right, Baggarly got blackballed for the Dunston/Romo fight thing. But apparently for only like a week. The organization loves him.

    • Lurker John said, on January 25, 2018 at 11:36 am

      There’s a lot of assholes in the hall. Do some research and prepare to have your mind boggled, criminals, gamblers and general rogues. It’s not a criteria for entry.

      • sfsarge said, on January 25, 2018 at 11:40 am

        I don’t doubt that for a second, but I feel like they are using the steroid thing as an excuse to carry out personal vendettas

      • Lurker John said, on January 25, 2018 at 12:03 pm

        Absolutely Sarge, which is one reason I question the legitimacy of writers voting on these things. Makes no sense to me. BB is arguably the greatest player ever, but he may not get in because he rubbed writers the wrong way and the steroid allegations.

  13. willedav said, on January 25, 2018 at 11:23 am

    A C “Tom” Jobim would have been 91 today. composed and played a lot of beautiful music.

  14. Lurker John said, on January 25, 2018 at 11:35 am

    No question BB should be in the HoF, but we all know the reason he isn’t. Men who never played the game outside of Little League hold his fate in their hands That’s something I’ll never understand.

    I hold out hope that someday he will be.

  15. alleykat69 said, on January 25, 2018 at 11:39 am

    Wilco,
    George Brett?

  16. unca_chuck said, on January 25, 2018 at 11:43 am

    Chipper Jones?

    • Macdog said, on January 25, 2018 at 11:56 am

      You got it.

      • zumiee said, on January 25, 2018 at 11:58 am

        With Harper and Correia on pace to make it someday.

      • djloo27 said, on January 25, 2018 at 12:04 pm

    • wilcojoe said, on January 25, 2018 at 12:10 pm

      Chipper it is.

  17. unca_chuck said, on January 25, 2018 at 11:45 am

    The Bonds in the Hall argument reminds me of this . . .

  18. Macdog said, on January 25, 2018 at 11:58 am

    Albert Belle is another one likely not in the HOF because he was probably a bigger a-hole than Bonds. The guy put up outrageous numbers over a 10-year span before a hip injury forced him to retire.

    • zumiee said, on January 25, 2018 at 12:00 pm

      Yeah, the sportswriters know they have the Hall of Fame payback in their backpocket, thinking “what goes around comes around dude….” It’s like their lordly power in baseball.

  19. YogiBarrister (@Yogi47951368) said, on January 25, 2018 at 12:15 pm

    You have to assume every player who played 1993-2009 and who had a significant increase in power, strikeouts, games played was using steroids.
    The bar was set too low with Bagwell IMO, you need to grade them on a very steep curve. Bonds, Clemens, and A-Rod obviously. Probably Sosa, because he did more than hit. The first basemen? No.
    Yes to middle-infirelders and catchers. I’d bet Biggio used, Vizquel didn’t, but both were superlative fielders. Jeff Kent? No.
    Piazza no doubt used, so set the bar at him for catchers.
    For 3B and OF, they need to have long careers (16 yrs minimum) and be Gold Glove caliber fielders. Beltre, Beltran? Yes.
    Pitchers are more problematic as the number one criterium, Wins, has been reduced with five man rotations and pitch counts. So has the second most important stat, innings pitched. They also don’t have as long careers as they used to. For starters, I’d set the bar at 225 wins with a WP around .575

    • YogiBarrister (@Yogi47951368) said, on January 25, 2018 at 12:45 pm

      Amendments/correction
      Pedro Martinez only has 219 wins, so the minimum has to be lower.
      Criterion is the singular for criteria. Can’t blame autocorrect for that mistake, bicyclecorrect?

  20. willedav said, on January 25, 2018 at 12:28 pm

    But bottom line, as snarkk has said over and over, is NO ONE knows for sure who did what/when, and who didn’t. Least of all sanctimonious scribes using the “character” card as an excuse. They can’t honestly tell anyone, “Oh this guy was clean and this guy was not.”

    I’ll agree with Chipper, Bonds in his heyday was just plain best hitter I ever saw. And the HOF pitchers of his day, like Greg Maddux, he used to wail on.

    • sfsarge said, on January 25, 2018 at 12:33 pm

      I think I’m the junior of the group, but has there been another player that caused you to stop what you were doing and watch them hit? Bonds is the only person who has ever done that for me?

      • xoot said, on January 25, 2018 at 12:54 pm

        “Barry’s in the box!” was what people at the park said when they meant “sit the fuck down!”

      • alleykat69 said, on January 25, 2018 at 1:36 pm

        I was gonna say Johnny LeMaster, but he only put me asleep in my seat..

    • willedav said, on January 25, 2018 at 12:36 pm

      And even with all the numbers put up as indicated above, he could have played couple more years as DH if Selig (butt hurt over him passing Aaron) hadn’t put the word out and blackballed him. No team could have used a guy who put up 1.000 OPS in last season with Giants? Ridiculous.

  21. willedav said, on January 25, 2018 at 12:41 pm

    I don’t ever remember seeing what Showalter did, walk a guy intentionally with bases loaded.

  22. YogiBarrister (@Yogi47951368) said, on January 25, 2018 at 12:49 pm

    If Bonds had flown a fighter jet, he’d be considered the best LF of all time. Had he also pitched, he’d be the greatest baseball player of all time

  23. alleykat69 said, on January 25, 2018 at 1:08 pm

    Still feel Dale Murphy should be in the HOF..

  24. dirtnrocksnomo said, on January 25, 2018 at 2:54 pm

    I fall in the camp that Bonds was a HOF player before the suspected steroid use. While I think it is obvious that Bonds roided up, there is no way to know one way or the other for players during the era.

    My initial take on Vizquel was that he’s not a HOF player but then I looked at his numbers compared to Ozzie Smith and they’re remarkably similar-even when adjusted to compare head to head as a 19 year career.

  25. Macdog said, on January 25, 2018 at 3:23 pm

    Marlins trade Yelich to Brewers.

  26. unca_chuck said, on January 25, 2018 at 3:25 pm

    Lowell Cohn was a known shit-disturber long before Barry got here. And yeah, Bonds should be in the hall. When the steroid usage was somewhere between 30-60%, if not more, then you can’t draw a line anywhere and say for certain who used and who didn’t. Beyond that, it hadn’t been banned by baseball through most of the tenure of Bonds and Clemens’ supposed usage time anyway.

    So, they are being punished for something that wasn’t illegal.

    And Bud Selig, the enabler, gets in.

    And Tony LaRussa, Mr. I-never-saw-anything-in-my -locker-room, gets in.

    Buuuuuuuulllllllllllll shit.

  27. unca_chuck said, on January 25, 2018 at 3:28 pm

    Dirt, it’s much like John Brodie and Joe Namath. Brodie had better numbers and a longer career, but doesn’t get in because he wasn’t a brash look-at-me kind of guy the way Namath was.

    Same with Floyd Little and Ken Willard.

  28. gianthead said, on January 25, 2018 at 3:34 pm

    Huge Move for Brew Crew:

    https://sports.yahoo.com/report-brewers-acquire-star-outfielder-christian-yelich-trade-marlins-231607295.html
    Report: Brewers acquire star outfielder Christian Yelich in trade with Marlins

  29. gianthead said, on January 25, 2018 at 3:45 pm

    The numbers do not lie. Bonds before the obvious start of steroid use going into the 1999 season, has 400 homers and 420ish in steals. He is 31 or 32 then. He plays at 50% output for those 5 years and he is still very would have been still in his prime.

    Averaging 20 homers and about 17 steals gets him easily to 500 homers and had 500 stolen bases. And this is the juiced ball era and he is in great phyical shape. 20 homers and 17 steals is roughly half his production in the 5 years previous to 1999. No one baseball smart ass writer can deny that is the likely outcome for Bonds. But he was a dick to people, teammates and writers so he then is banished.

    In so many ways Bonds is a tragic figure. If he stayed clean, he would be the role model of baseball greatness. Compared to the jacked up players of the era, he would stand with Griffey as the paragons of virtue. But Bonds had a lot of demons and who did in his legacy.

    No one and I underline no one in baseball has 500-500. I am a proponent of changing the baseball season back to the original 154 games and then the 164 game era can be its on hall in the Hall of Fame and then Bonds gets in. FUCK CLEMENS AND SOSA:)

  30. snarkk said, on January 25, 2018 at 3:46 pm

    I say the HOF is a joke now and I should just stop messing with it. But, I Used to care about it. And I’ve been there twice, and enjoyed the history of it. So, watching the selection process turn into this idiocy is painful. Couple more observations:
    1. Bonds handed over stuff for the HOF to use in exhibits, at its request. If he doesn’t get in, he should ask for the stuff back.
    2. A lot of the writers keepin him out were complicit in the Steroid era. Many absolutely had to know what was going on, either generally or specifically, or had overwhelming reasons for suspicion. Yet, no exposes, no stories. They kept silent to protect their own asses and jobs as beat writers and columnists needing access. It took non-sports writers in Game of Shadows to blow the lid off. Given the complicity, I say this sports writing organization waived it’s “right” to be the HOF gatekeeper.
    3. I know the writers did not vote for them, but how can you square the HOF barrier to Bonds and Clemens, with entry of the Budster, LaRussa, Torre, and Cox who presided over and benefitted from steroid players? All had to know; were complicit.
    4. I love the fact that Stretch has let it be known he thought Joe Morgans letter on keeping suspected PEDS players out of the HOF was BS.
    5. Kent’s offensive stats dwarf those of Joe Morgan and Sandberg, he had an MVP, went to a WS, had no personal PEDS rumors that I’ve seen, yet Kent gets almost no HOF voter love. That alone shows the process is off the rails. Ridiculous.

    • wilcojoe said, on January 25, 2018 at 3:58 pm

      Agree with all of this.

    • alleykat69 said, on January 25, 2018 at 4:45 pm

      Great post Snarkk!
      Agree with it all.
      And yeah Jeff Kent is getting bent over and for what just being a hard ass redneck? His numbers(solid run of 100 rbi’s and with the most HR’s ever by a second basemen) should of automatically put him in.To many columnist,writers, whoever get to vote for the fame should have their rights revoked due to their ignorance in the true value of individual performances..

  31. Macdog said, on January 25, 2018 at 4:39 pm

    Whoa: Now the Brewers have signed Lorenzo Cain.

  32. zumiee said, on January 25, 2018 at 4:49 pm

    Those two acquisitions by the Brewers are a plus for the Giants in that no other teams in the NL West got them either, especially the Dodgers.

    • djloo27 said, on January 25, 2018 at 5:17 pm

      But it makes them tougher WC competition, which I guess is the more reachable fantasy for those who believe…

  33. unca_chuck said, on January 25, 2018 at 4:55 pm

    That’s the problem with the steroid era GH. Guys like Bonds and Clemens had their numbers pre roofs. Sosa not so much. Even McGwire straddled the line of roids. But if Bonds gets in then the door opens for all of them. Sosa? No? McGeire? No. Clemens? Yes. This shit abt that hard to figure out but these sportswriters act as if they are writing the Bill of Rights or some shit.

  34. Flavor said, on January 25, 2018 at 5:09 pm

    lot of great info here, thanks SARGE
    sfsarge said, on January 25, 2018 at 12:23 pm (Edit)
    The two biggest revelations I got from him were that Angel Pagan was a prick and no one on the team liked him. And Bochy is very hard on his coaches and the newbies. He said he has witnessed many butt chewings. And he didn’t really back up his coaches, hence all the shuffling around after the season. And you guys were right, Baggarly got blackballed for the Dunston/Romo fight thing. But apparently for only like a week. The organization loves him.

  35. Flavor said, on January 25, 2018 at 5:22 pm

    Loo those ML odds on collected have to have you saran wrapping everything in sight….

    • djloo27 said, on January 25, 2018 at 6:21 pm

      Every wise ass is out to beat GR now because of the draw…

      • Flavor said, on January 25, 2018 at 6:46 pm

        i have 5 horses in that leg of my pick 4

      • djloo27 said, on January 25, 2018 at 6:58 pm

        A real old school racetrack pal got me all wound up about Collected and his maternal bloodlines going back literally 200 years. Obviously, his breeding hasn’t changed since his last race, so I’m not sure why he thinks it will mean so much on Saturday. I’m not going to ask him. Just gonna take the advice because of the way it was given. Like the time a few years ago when Del Mar Dennis said Mucho Macho Man would absolutely win a one mile stakes race at Belmont because he would love the one turn. The man was dead on…

      • Flavor said, on January 25, 2018 at 8:27 pm

        Collected’s last race is a total throw out. Baffert said before the race it was a prep and he wasn’t wound up at all. Now he’s working a hole in the wind, a tell tale Baffert sign that this horse is ready. He’ll be as locked and loaded as he can be on Sat.

  36. djloo27 said, on January 25, 2018 at 5:37 pm

    Yeah, and there doesn’t seem to be much early support for him…

  37. djloo27 said, on January 25, 2018 at 6:31 pm

    Cain got 5/80…

    • zumiee said, on January 25, 2018 at 6:53 pm

      No thanks. Good pass by the Giants.

      • djloo27 said, on January 25, 2018 at 7:01 pm

        Teams give out 5 year deals and are probably satisfied with 3 good ones, I’d say…

      • zumiee said, on January 25, 2018 at 7:13 pm

        Less GMs might now be thinking that way, though. We’ll see how it all pans out.

      • Lurker John said, on January 25, 2018 at 7:17 pm

        That’ll put Cain at 37 years old at the end of the 5 year deal. He’s a good player, but not at those terms.

      • zumiee said, on January 25, 2018 at 7:28 pm

        The Brewers GM kind of went against the SABR tide washing over the sport.

  38. Lurker John said, on January 25, 2018 at 7:14 pm

    Damn glad we didn’t shell out $80M for Lorenzo fucking Cain. No thank you. And Selig being in the HoF makes the whole thing a sham. What a joke.

  39. Flavor said, on January 25, 2018 at 8:06 pm

    the one thing I can kind of support is this: if you don’t want to legitimize the HR record then you can’t let Bonds in. Whether he was a HOF already before he took steroids is a different issue. If not legitimizing the HR record is important to you, something he only got because he was on steroids, then you can’t let him in. I do see that take. I’m trying to be rational about all this and see both sides.

  40. snarkk said, on January 25, 2018 at 9:31 pm

    Looks like the Brewers are going for it !
    Definitely at least a WC possibility now, it seems…

  41. djloo27 said, on January 25, 2018 at 9:47 pm

    After Bum and Cueto the entire pitching staff inspires no confidence and little optimism.
    Scoring a few more runs ain’t gonna help much.
    No way this is a .500 team…

    • blade3colorado said, on January 25, 2018 at 10:01 pm

      Call me a doomer, but I can’t argue with that sentiment. Too many things have to go right for this team to be .500, much less a wild card team.

  42. blade3colorado said, on January 25, 2018 at 9:58 pm

    LJ, I agree with you that the Cain signing is terrible. I have maintained this since the beginning of hot stove season, regardless of where he landed.

    However, in my opinion, you’re forgetting our own “Cain” signing – I am talking about Longoria. Longoria is a three-time All-Star who has twice finished as high as sixth in the MVP voting, but he’s also coming off his worst season at the plate, hitting .261/.313/.424, production that made him three runs worse than the average hitter over his number of plate appearances. Thanks to his defense, however, he was still worth 3.6 WAR. His OPS stinks – below .800 3 of the last 4 seasons, including last season at
    .737.

    The truly scary number going forward, though, is Longoria’s salary: He still has five years and $87 million to go on the six-year extension he signed all the way back in 2012—a deal that didn’t kick in until his then-contract expired after the ’16 season.

    Hey, maybe he rakes next year. I doubt it though.

    • snarkk said, on January 25, 2018 at 10:28 pm

      A factor I think doesn’t get much attention in a deal like Longoria is that he’s new to the NL. He doesn’t know the pitchers much. Yeah, there’s video, and past interleague removes a bit of mystery. But, there’s nothing like facing the real thing. I think pitchers have the advantage when a batter is new to a league…

      • blade3colorado said, on January 25, 2018 at 10:43 pm

        Agree. Perhaps, it’s even worse for an older player.

  43. snarkk said, on January 25, 2018 at 11:27 pm

    Outstanding !
    Just read a story in the WaPo where sometime last year, the Drumpf White House asked the Guggenheim museum in NYC to loan it a Van Gogh for hanging in the Drumpf’s personal quarters. Apparently, presidents often ask US museums to loan items to show in the public and private areas of the mansion. Instead, the Guggenheim’s curator offered to loan Drumpf a museum sculpture piece — a functioning solid 18K gold toilet titled “America”, that had already been properly used by an estimated 100K people in the museum’s bathroom. The WHouse declined the offer…


Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: