LLLLLLosers
Finally we get some relief as we get our best fucking starting pitcher back today. Derek Holland had the best line of all these chumps. Way back in the 4-2 L he went 5 and only gave up 3. All 5 other SP’s did worse than that. Can’t win with starting pitching like this.
I was going through an old box and found some journals I used to write in. Here’s a snippet from one related to our Giants. The first part is about a gun shot exchange I witnessed, not something you typically saw in Palo Alto, then or now.
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
What a trip that journal entry is…wow. You must have been tripping, Flav. During the losing streak you are right.
What happened to the guys who pitched in Hotlanta:
Stratton: 6 IP, 3 ER, 6 K, 1 BB
Blach: 7.2 IP, 1ER, 2 K, 0 BB
Suarez: 5.1 IP, 1 R, 0 ER, 6 K, 1 BB
Plus, the bats were hot in Atlanta, and that really changed once they hit Philly.
These last six turds were damned near unwatchable.
I’ll tune in today to see if they can steal one on their get-away.
Boch shaking it up a bit, today:
1. Gorkys Hernandez (R) CF
2. Andrew McCutchen (R) RF
3. Brandon Belt (L) LF
4. Evan Longoria (R) 3B
5. Pablo Sandoval (S) 1B
6. Brandon Crawford (L) SS
7. Nick Hundley (R) C
8. Kelby Tomlinson (R) 2B
9. Derek Holland (S) P
Can we win A FUCKING GAME?!!!
Hansen – tight left hammy…day-to-day. 🙄
i don’t know why Bochy just doesn’t lead McCutchen off. Why not? I mean, come on, fucking GorkHead?
Yeah I’m sick🤮of Gorky&Blanko at the top of the order, freakin Boch get over your loveseat for those 2 and put Hanson their when he comes back healthy and fucking leave him there..
Lovefest
AK, “loveseat” works too. lulz
Scorcese looks like a guy just starting out under a deal with the devil…
From Baggs.
Along with the five-year, $90 million contract that Samardzija received prior to the 2016 season, the Giants paid an additional opportunity cost. They sacrificed their first-round draft pick (18th overall) in the 2016 draft — the first time they punted a top pick since 2005.
Take a deeper peek at that 2016 draft and you’ll find the sacrifice was more Teotihuacán in scale as the Giants gave up younger blood to acquire older players. Second-round pick Bryan Reynolds went to the Pirates last December in the trade that netted Andrew McCutchen. Their fourth-round pick, Matt Krook, and their eighth-rounder, Stephen Woods, went to the Tampa Bay Rays for Longoria.
There are no other standout prospects from that draft. Third-rounder Heath Quinn hit .228 last year at High-A San Jose and is repeating the league (and got carried off the field with an injury earlier this week). Sixth-rounder Gio Brusa is also repeating with San Jose after hitting .237 in the Cal League last season. The only players taken in the top 10 rounds to matriculate to Double-A thus far are shortstop Ryan Howard and pitcher Garrett Williams.
Then there is the hit the Giants took to acquire failed left-hander Matt Moore, trading Bahamian shortstop Lucius Fox along with third baseman Matt Duffy. It’s not just that they sacrificed Fox, a player they signed for $6 million while blowing past their international bonus pool allotment in 2015. Because they had to spend the next two years in the penalty box due to the Fox signing, unable to offer a top bonus of more than $300,000, they also sacrificed a two-year opportunity to compete for top international free agents.
it’s interesting to see the under the radar costs interwoven together like this.
Fox (18 at the time) when he was in giants system at Augusta hit .207 and made 32 errors at SS in 75 games.
He’s still in A+ ball tho having a fine season for Tampa. Seems way off from ever being ml player. Moore of course was just awful and Smrdz deal looks worse all the time.
Yesterday he really was 1 strike away from quality start and then boom leaves pitch up and out over plate.
Worried more about this draft done by new faces.
MLBTR column on whether Dodgers make playoffs with poll ?—2 thirds of bloggers voted “No.”
the Moore trade didn’t work out because Moore sucked. I don’t care who we gave up, Duffy is just a guy and the Fox kid, shit, I’d rather roll the dice and send a kid that young in exchange for what we THOUGHT was going to be a very reliable, affordable left handed starter….
same with smrdz. Not sure what Baggs point is, other than Giants gave up potential assets and struggling Duffy for couple ml guys that have disappointed. Evans or Sabes on the bad calls? Baggs doesn’t say here…why?
reynolds kid was in San Jose last year, hit. 300 with 10 bombs. He’s in AA with Pirates club Altoona…again a guy that seems long way away from ml and is 23 right now. Pirates are kicking back couple mil on Cutch too.
Categories of bad trades:
1) It doesn’t make any sense, the player you traded was the one who could fulfill a short time goal. (Addison Russell for Jeff Samardzija)
2) Disparity in talent (Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas)
3) They fuck up team chemistry (Wheeler for Beltran, Nathan for Pierzinski)
4) An add-in develops (Liriano for AJ Pierzinski)
5) They fulfill a short time goal but an all time great is lost (Nathan for Pierzynski, Doyle Alexander for Smoltz, Jeff Bagwell for Dave Andersen)
6) A veteran player’s ability rapidly declines (Staub for Lolich)
7) The player you traded for doesn’t fulfill a short time goal, and the one you traded could have fulfilled a long term goal (Duvall for Leake)
The Moore trade doesn’t fit neatly into any of these. He fulfilled a short time goal, winning a wild card slot and eight stellar innings against the Cubs in the NLDS. It’s unlikely Duffy will be an all time great but he was a chemistry guy and fan favorite.
Good post. I knew they had made some sacrifices, but not to this detail. Thanks for sharing, Flav.
The way I see it is their core is getting longer in the tooth, and the window for World Series titles with this bunch is probably closing. So, they went and acquired pieces they hoped would put them over the top. So far, no bueno.
So, who owns the “swings and misses?” Evans or Sabes?
Who let the dogs out?
i’m mentally preparing myself for the Giants to chortle balls today so as not to have it ruin my Sunday.
I wish I would have come up with that chortle balls statement. That’s gold!
i’m usually a step ahead of you pappy. Gotta get up pretty early in the morn to one up me
I’m getting ”pink eye” looking at Hundley behind the plate,he might as well have a pink cup on the outside of his uni..
With high picks, the Giants need to kill it in this year’s draft.
For the foreseeable future, for this team I see futile wandering in the Desert of Medicority with frequent visits into the feared Moor of Crappity…
Holland doesn’t get the bunt down, Specs doesn’t steal, then the double play after a leadoff hit. Phhhhht. Seriously, when your pitchers and players who are supposed to be able to do it, regularly can’t even friggin’ execute a sac bunt, maybe you deserve to lose…
Nice play by Marte
yeah thought for sure off the bat Pablo had rbi.
arggh bottom of the order you can’t walk the guy hitting .160.
nice turn from Specs there on high throw.
4 shutout innings from Holland some blessed relief. Giants according to Pavs have hit 6 balls @100 mph without any of them being a hit.
GorkHead. Nice.
Ha Gorks yanks #2 of the year out. Going back to last night BB and the warning track one in first AB, that’s some good ABs out of him.
Second time Flem thought Cutch had a HR.
Like to see Belt yank one here. Lurie was talking yesterday about all the RHP Giants face in the NL East; time to take some advantage away from ATT and all the LHP of NL West.
deGrom just got out of a 45-pitch 1st inning without allowing a run vs. Phils.
Bombs Away Hundley that was huge!!
Seems like eons since we’ve been in the driver’s seat.
Nice job with the Hundley bomb, after a ton of almost jacks the last few games.
He’s got more power and is more an RBI threat now than Buster, at 1/10 the cost.
5-0, they gotta get this game. 4-6 is a lot better roadie than 3-7…
Gorkys now has as many HRs as Buster.
He’s just turned 31. He seems to have completely lost a power stroke. I don’t care how good he is at handling pitchers, and that’s overblown IMO, but $20 million for a singles/doubles guy who can throw out runners at second pretty well is damn expensive. The loss of power before hitting 30 is strange. From age 29-31, Bench hit 31, 23, 22 HRs, averaged 130 games caught, at a home park in a town that’s a sauna in summer. And he was a starter with the Reds when he was 20, Buster was 23, so Bench had more mileage on him at the same age. Maybe that ankle has always been an issue, but not disclosed. I dunno…
Yeah, I wonder if it is the ankle…
THE GIANTS WIN A GAME! THE GIANTS WIN A GAME! THE GIANTS WIN A GAME!
Holy cow…
Yay!
Big win.
Really needed that one. Good flight home.
Reds have started playing ball, so Giants need to get their S together for this next series…
Finally, a nice win. Speaking of pink cups . . .
Nice win. 4-6 roadie not that bad, eh? lqtm
Derek Holland: Stopper? lol, this isn’t going to work this year if the other SP’s don’t step up.
We need the version of Stratton, Blach, and Suarez who pitched in Hotlanta….
And don’t sleep on the Reds. They played good ball against the Dodgers this weekend.
Holland or Beede?
Not a great choice, but I know which one I’m taking…
man, fuck Beede. I haven’t looked but I thought I read here that he’s getting blasted in AAA. Dude needs to ditch that high maintenance chick and work harder at his trade.
His last start was pathetic. Walked another shitload of batters. If he could harness his stuff, he would be a great pitcher, but with no control, that won’t work in the MLB or AAA for that matter.
Holland is a serviceable starter. If I had to pick him or Samardzxxx to start a must win game, I’d pick Holland…
It’s nice to still be ahead of the Dodgers.
Snarkk mentioned Buster’s lack of power (22 in 2014 was his last real “power year”). I disagree due to the ballpark he plays in and these comments from Bobby Evans illustrate why. I took Evans quote from an article (actually, a KNBR interview).
“I think that his power when he was in college, his power was really to right-center,” Evans said. “You know he’s had to make adjustments at the big league level, because right-center power doesn’t play at AT&T Park. So I think it probably has been an adjustment. You know his power’s not a pull-down-the-foul-line, left field foul line, home-run-type power.
“I mean he’s more of a right-center power type guy which doesn’t play at AT&T. So I think it’s probably had an impact there.”
Regardless, it doesn’t really matter in my opinion, as he’s been a key cog in all 3 of our championships. Insofar as his contract, he’s like most superstars – not so much getting paid for what he’s going to do, but for what he’s already done. This is the bane of all MLB contracts.
Plus plays Gold Glove defense. And hits .300 every year with an .800+ OPS.
Yep!
You guys are more enamored of him than I am.
ATT dimensions haven’t changed since he started with the Giants; he was hitting HRs then. He doesn’t hit HRs much on the road, either, when pull or to his beloved oppo.
He’s a very good player; trending towards good, and yes, getting paid for what he did 4 years ago.
I would trade him, and Bum, after this year. The Giants have no future in the pipeline. Watching Posey throw out a couple of guys at second the next few years on a .500 at best team does not float my boat much…
I’d trade Buster in a heartbeat, I just don’t think anyone wants him with that contract
He’s very good at throwing base-stealers out, but is also very good at fielding dribblers and throwing runners out, and is considered one of the best pitch-framers, another stat that SABR values highly.
The team, Bum, etc., is another story . . . Absolutely agree that all of them should have been jettisoned after 1.5 years of putrid baseball. I’m on record emphatically – that we should have started the rebuild after last season. Instead, the team has doubled down on more old guys. Hey, I get it – it’s occasionally entertaining (sans the recent Philly and Pirate series).
However, as most of you guys told me – that was never going to happen. This team is too concerned about butts in the seats and selling leftover Panda hats. Equally important, Johnson and company know where they spent their first nickle, i.e., as Flavor alluded to below. They will RARELY eat a contract or pay another team to take a POS contract, e.g., Posey, Smarg, Melanoma, Craw, Cain, Pence, etc.
Puig finally hit his first HR. The Reds are ahead 3-1.
The HR moved Puig’s OPS up to .536.
that disappoints me……
Buster’s salary amount is not a big issue for the Giants. The big issue is Melancon getting $20 million this season, and Pence getting $18 million.
his salary is a big issue if they ever wanted to move him
Why move him? There’s no minor league catcher tearing it up. Buster’s under contract for 3 more years. I don’t see him becoming terrible in the next three years. I don’t think he’ll go all Pence on us. Buster’s batting fundamentals are very solid. I know health issues are unpredictable. But most teams are cutting back on number of games for catchers. It’s the SABR trend.
If somebody were willing to give me a couple of stud OF minor leaguers and a pitcher, I’d trade Posey in a heartbeat. Let Hundley catch, and see what backup C you can get on the scrap heap. The minor leagues for the Giants are a wasteland — Mac, Slater and Duggar are the best you can do in the minors? Beede? The 3-5 year future of this team looks pretty bleak. Phhtttt….
I can see your point, but I think Hundley would get pretty exposed as a longterm starter, hitting-wise and controlling the opponents’ running game. Just my opinion.
I agree with you to some extent. But to me Posey on this team just covers up a long term problem — lack of talent in the minors and aging talent on the 25. Like blade said above, they should have blown this thing up for a rebuild a year ago. The Astros stunk for years, but they were building a jurggernaut with young talent. Giants have squat in the pipeline. This year looks better than last year’s disaster, but realistically this team is barely a WC team if everything goes right in 2018. Next year and a few after that — good luck…
No, you’re right Zum about Hundley. He is totally in a “zone” at the moment. If he played for any appreciable period of time, his batting average, OBP, OPS, etc., would fall back to the mean or below (probably below). This guy is a back up for a reason.
blade, if you’re going blow up and rebuild, you deal with a season or more of dudes like Hundley playing a lot. You can’t have it both ways…
Votto goes yard. Reds ahead 5-1.
Hopefully this is Doghair suckage at work, not Reds climbing out of the poo pile just in time to take on the Gyros…
it’s not even worth discussing, nobody is giving us shit for Buster because of his contract. I certainly wouldn’t trade him just to get rid of his contract. We aren’t rebuilding, that was never going to happen.
Snarkk, I’m just being realistic. To me Buster is probably . . . umm, number 7 or 8 on what bothers me about this team . . . As I probably said at least a dozen times in the Hot Stove season, they needed to blow this team up. However, you have to have an ownership group that values excellence first, which this ownership group doesn’t. Like I said earlier – old man Johnson could give 2 shits about winning another championship. He has 3 and more important to him apparently, he’s making literally millions of dollars each and every year.
Consequently, as just about every Flapper has told me – there’s no way, no how, he is going to jettison or eat bad contracts. So, this year will be mediocre, a huge improvement from last season no doubt. However, as I have pointed out previously, the Devil is going to be paid eventually. These “old guy” contracts get even worse in 2019, 2020, etc. With the cupboard just about empty in the minors, I have no idea how we are competitive after this season.
Hundley has been a nice surprise this year. I agree his numbers would decline if he played everyday but he doesn’t have to play every day. He can stay fresh and give us plus at bats when he’s in there. Very happy to have him as Buster’s back up
Bum very likely ready to come back when he’s eligible (May 25th). That is great news.
Reds sweep the Dodgers, 4 games.
I’m past what a guy makes. Deals are negotiated in good faith by multiple parties. Ownership, giants especially, are dominating these days. If a player has a good contract and opportunity to play the game he loves, great.
I’m more concerned about talent level and production. Posey is still very productive hitter and C and there isn’t a replacement.
Pence is done being a productive player. The money is already spent; let Shaw or Mac play LF full time.
CF obviously is still a problem that Evans did not solve offseason and needs to be addressed.
And unfortunately there isn’t any Giant whatsoever that would bring back “a couple stud minor league OFs and a pitcher.”
Bum could have brought that had he not been hurt the last 2 years. Hey, he still might be able to if we tank and he soars. There’s a 12 mil option on him next season and his perceived value is always inflated because of what he did in the post season.
Yeah, that’s called a sunk cost in economics, though technically this is not that, but it is a binding contract with monies that must be paid over the coming year or whatever it is. This team is deeply frustrating to follow right now.
Nice job by the staff ace today. Crawford seems to have picked it up and Belt is off to a great start. No idea what they can do with Posey. I think the ankle injury is worse than we know and hinders his hip rotation reducing his power stroke.
Bumgarner on track to return is great news – 12+ months since he took the bump in a real game. I’m heading to the yard on Wednesday and Suarez is scheduled to pitch. I can taste that chacha bowl already.
“the staff ace” lulz
But what if the Giants were to absorb some of Busters contract to send him to his hometown Atlanta Braves, who by all intents and purposes are a year or so ahead of schedule on their rebuild, have a wealth of young talent, and most importantly a black hole at catcher (Kurt freaking Suzuki and Tyler Flowers)? Buster would be the veteran presence to potentially lead the Braves to a title or two or three for the remainder of his contract. I haven’t seen the Braves payroll obligations but I am guessing it’s full of mostly young, non-arbitration eligible bargains, so taking on Busters contract even in full is not out of the question. It almost makes too much sense.
He’s got what? About 90 mil left on his deal? I guess if the Giants picked up half of that maybe it would make sense for the Braves but I don’t see the Giants getting so desperate that they decide jettisoning Buster is the way to fix all of this (assuming things go south this year). Rebuilding requires a mindset that the Giants ownership and management do not have. They’ve never had it.
i just don’t want them to resign Bum. That would just be devastating. They aren’t really gonna do that are they?
Yes, unless Bum gets his left arm amputated after another dirt bike adventure…
that would be so incredibly stupid. Tie 200 million up for what?
I looked at Cubs of 2016 and I’ll go look at how Stros put their team together;everyone brings up a Stros type rebuild. Like Flav says tho, Giants FO is determined not to lose 98 llke last year for 3 years and get their ass kicked like Stros did.
Cubs drafted well and signed good amateur FAs (Bryant Rizzo contreras Soler Hendricks) but lot of their roster came from smart trades and FAs. And they spent a ton of $$ on the FAs, especially pitching.
Zobrist Russell (trade) Fowler Heyward Montero and the pitching—Arrieta Hammel Lester Lackey and Chapman.And a couple years later few of those guys are elsewhere.
Wilco makes excellent case but unless ghost of Bill Walsh takes over I don’t see Giants doing it.
This is what this impending train wreck of a season has come to; we’re glad we’re still ahead of the Dodgers. Who gives a fuck.
With all the talk that this team should have been blown up, etc., as someone mentioned earlier (Flav?), this draft is going to be big.
I also heard Bochy on the pre-game saying Bum is right on track…no issues with the finger.
He also said Melatonin had a good bullpen and no after-effects, so he could be back, too.
Last I heard, Williamson has yet to play.
I’ll be surprised if Williamson is back anytime before the AS break. He’s apparently in concussion limbo. And, they’ll bring Pence back for at least a month to confirm if he has anything in the tank. Hanson is the guy I want to make sure in the meanwhile doesn’t get tossed into Bochy’s never never land. This kid is energy, he needs to stay…
Bochy talked pretty glowingly about Hanson on the ore-game. He’ll be back. Longoria may slide to 2nd occasionally, per Bochy, while Hanson is out.
i don’t care if we’re ahead of the Dodgers. I care about what our record is and who’s ahead of us. We’re in ok shape heading home. Could easily be worse.
Given all the damned injuries, I actually think this team is holding its own pretty well. Only five back of the Snakes, and two out of 2nd (Rox).
Right now it is impossible to rate our SP from 1 through 5. It changes with each start.
We have 5 guys who on any given day will range from decent to horrendous…
Posey may wind up having a similar career (individually) to Ted Simmons – eventually winding up in the AL as a DH and P/T catcher. Simmons started younger, so Posey won’t approach his career numbers…
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/simmote01.shtml
Yeah, Posey will not play 20 years
AKA redneck disaster. 10yrs (3000 ABs) with Giants, hit .225/,280/.293 for 573 OPS. If you click on card there is photo of him with Boo on back.
For a lot of teams, SS was D first position.
Nice to see Craw have good road trip. Hope he can keep hitting…again not a guy Giants can easily replace.
Cindy has the worst record in the NL, but they’ve won six in a row…
Pirate announcers were very clear in their opinion that Cutch is one and done in SF…
sounds about right. Can’t imagine he’s putting down any roots out here and this is the end of his deal so….
One of the reasons Bill James started the SABR revolution is because teams like the Giants were doing things like batting LeMaster lead-off.
And nearly 40 years later, we’re dealing with batting Blanco at leadoff.
Lemaster was constantly getting booed, so his wife said in bed one night :Why don’t you just change your jersey name to Boo, so he told the equipment manager(assuming it was Murph) if he would put Boo on the back of his jersey, which he did and nobody noticed right away,except GM Spec Richardson, who made him change the jersey between innings and said that will cost you $500 after the game for being out of uniform..
https://goo.gl/images/2VKBPq
i’m excited to watch the Giants bash Harvey into the following week.
“The last time the Reds swept a four-game series at Dodger Stadium was back in 1976.”
During the Big Red Machine era.
Reds won 102 games and the Series in 76. B/R they led league in almost every single offensive category (non pitchers hit .291 with .800 OPS) and stole 200 bags. 5 regulars hit .300+. Morgan hit .320 with 1.000 OPS 27 bombs and stole 60 bags.
Add in Perez Foster Bench Rose Griffey Concepcion Geronimo…monster team.
Yeah, the top 3 in the batting order, Rose, Griffey, and Morgan, all had on-base percentages over .400 that season.
That team didn’t have the greatest pitching, but it didn’t matter.
The last NL team to win back to back titles.
BUT couldn’t win 3 in 5 years. 🙂