THE San Francisco Giants Blog

Bad Luck

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on October 18, 2018

I mean, to me, it looks like those fans are crossing the line.

Screenshot 2018-10-18 at 5.48.09 AM

I love the dude all the way to the left in the red shirt, Houston cap. He just missed that bad boy, eh?

But to the larger issue…..their hands definitely look past the fence line. And even though Betts’ glove closes immediately before the ball gets there, it’s clear that a fan’s hand touches the glove and with the force he’s traveling I can see how that would cause the glove to close.

In this shot you can clearly see the dude on the right is IN the field of play, his hand is on the fence. And the 2 guys who interfered with the ball look to have hands just past that guy.

Screenshot 2018-10-18 at 6.24.18 AM

To me, these fans were all in the field of play. They had all crossed that imaginary line. This sucks for Houston but I think West got the call right and there wasn’t anything in replay that supported reversing it.

I don’t think those fans were as bad as Bartman. He’s farther into the field of play and fucks with the ball more.

Screenshot 2018-10-18 at 5.52.48 AM

I’ve never been in a situation like this, I’ve never even caught a foul ball. But I really truly believe I would have the presence of mind and body awareness to stay clearly back from the play. I might be yelling like a motherfucker for him to drop it but I’d stay out of the play.

That’s my take anyway….

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44 Responses

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  1. zumiee said, on October 18, 2018 at 7:26 am

    Just doesn’t seem to be the Astros’ year. It’s so very very hard to repeat. Ask the Royals and Cubs.
    And good luck winning 3 in 5 years, Astros.

  2. willedav said, on October 18, 2018 at 7:34 am

    cbs site had the fan’s take–“If Boston wins the Series, then Joe West is the MVP.”
    He said the ball was out and it hit his hands, and he didn’t hit Betts’ glove.
    Boston LA WS=unwatchable.

    • zumiee said, on October 18, 2018 at 7:38 am

      That fan doesn’t understand how sports history works. That fan will be a villain.

  3. djloo27 said, on October 18, 2018 at 8:07 am

    There are also situations when a fan in the front row has a split second to figure out if not trying to catch a ball is putting him in danger of getting injured by the ball itself or other leaping and reaching fans…

  4. willedav said, on October 18, 2018 at 8:08 am

    Props to Chron for putting pic up of T Smith/J Carlos sitting in front of statue at San Jose St (alma mater).
    Thought these guys were heroic in what they did then and still do. T Smith bio, btw is very good read.

    You see a lot of stuff with 50 yrs anniversary, going back to ’68. Chron had one the other day, review of concert at Oak Coliseum with Cream and It’s a Beautiful Day.

    I graduated ’78 from SJS…at the time, I had job working 30 hours a week in retail and could afford: a car, apt. few blocks from college on 4th St. and paid my own way through school ($150 tuition for semester not including books).
    Now, that would be impossible—apts have gone up tenfold and tuition has skyrocketed. Wages, uh not so much.

    • gianthead said, on October 18, 2018 at 10:14 am

      Tuition was not that much higher when I was at State in Fall ’85. Want to say $215 the first semester. Probably worked 30 hours a week as a freshman and if we did not get free meals on the job (2 meals on Sat and Sun) I would have starved….then moved into the fraternity house on 11th Street as a sophomore (ok my second year in college, not quite a sophomore yet) and rent was around $270 with two meals a day during the week…lived on Team Flakes!!! I miss the greatest cereal ever made…

  5. Bozo said, on October 18, 2018 at 8:21 am

    My favorite is the guy in the middle of the second photo with his eyes closed. Those thoughts and prayers didn’t really work out for him there.

  6. Bozo said, on October 18, 2018 at 8:47 am

    I read where Chili Davis got canned by the Cubs because he didn’t/couldn’t connect with the young hitters. It also said some of them thought he fucked up their swing and Epstein wanted to see more aggressive launch angles that produce more power whereas Chili wanted to go more opposite field. Personally, I think each hitter is different and you work with what would work for a guy, if he getting an aggressive shift on him, well yeah work on an opposite field approach. If he has warning track power, hell yeah work on his launch angle. Whatever, pitchers will adjust and so the hitters need to as well (which Chili also mentions).

    Anyway, short story long, my favorite thing about the article was this final quote from Chili, “It’s a round bat and a round ball and you gotta hit it square”.

    • Flavor said, on October 18, 2018 at 9:47 am

      Chili isn’t really at today’s speed of batter guru-ness. I can totally see why he got axed. It would be very *giantsesque* to hire him

    • djloo27 said, on October 18, 2018 at 1:24 pm

      Just for the record, Chili did not invent that line. I remember it from “Ball Four” which I have pretty much memorized…

      • Bozo said, on October 18, 2018 at 1:53 pm

        I think it’s a great line, maybe it’s just one of those old school sayings.

      • djloo27 said, on October 18, 2018 at 2:43 pm

        I think Chili’s two best were calling St. Louis a “cow town” during the ’87 playoffs, and “he ain’t God” after the awful ’85 Giants beat the invincible Doc Gooden…

      • Bozo said, on October 18, 2018 at 4:18 pm

        I thought it was Leonard who called StL a cowtown. Still I like all of these.

      • Bozo said, on October 18, 2018 at 4:35 pm

        Wait, you’re right about the cowtown quote being Chili’s, I should have known better than to question you. For some reason I thought it was Leonard.

  7. PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on October 18, 2018 at 9:09 am

    Tough call about that imaginary line. Maybe the rule needs to be changed to something like, if the player has a play on the ball, even if it’s across the imaginary line, then fans shouldn’t interfere. From watching slow-mo replays, looks to me like Betts would’ve caught that ball. Some of the greatest catches we see are when players reach across or over the fence and pull a ball back in, it’s a great play.

    Too bad Houston/Boston isn’t the World Series, probably the 2 best teams in baseball. These have been very good games. WillieD, Boston/LA would be unwatchable for you? Fuck LA, but what you got against Bosstown? Good team, no real assholes, great season…..

    • willedav said, on October 18, 2018 at 10:29 am

      mm just not a Boston (never liked Celts) or Yanks guy tho I have much respect for Red Sox. I actually think the Red Sox and not other total rebuild teams that sucked for few years should be Giants role model. They didn’t have problem paying sucky guys to go away and went out and got what they didn’t have in power bat by signing J D Martinez. And made good deals to get quality pitching.
      Giants should have done this with Pence in 2017. And if they want to improve the team money spent shouldn’t be an issue.

      Not watching baseball much in playoffs is really more about LA. I hadn’t watched them at all and then caught 4-5 innings of the 13 inning game. Brewers bats haven’t recovered since. MIL-BOS would be OK.

  8. Flavor said, on October 18, 2018 at 9:49 am

    I absolutely love pics like the second one I posted in today’s thread. Every facial expression tells a story. Such a great captured moment. There’s a 20th century painter, I can’t recall his name right now, who painted art with wide eyed, overstated facial expressions. That’s what that pic reminds me of.

  9. gianthead said, on October 18, 2018 at 10:06 am

    Isn’t the rule that fans can’t reach over the fence having hands above the fence is completely legal? This seems to me to be an obvious home run.

  10. alleykat69 said, on October 18, 2018 at 10:14 am

    Looks like the “Killer B’s” now are the new version has caught up to the Astros..Bradley,Betts and Benitani
    are all studs in their outfield..

  11. gianthead said, on October 18, 2018 at 10:17 am

    Remember the famous Yanks-Orioles late season game when the kid clearly reached over and interfered…of course yanks/red sox get those calls…

  12. Flavor said, on October 18, 2018 at 10:29 am

  13. Flavor said, on October 18, 2018 at 10:31 am

    the rule is, if the ball is on the fans side of the ball and they stay on that side they can do whatever the fuck they want to the ball. If the ball is on the field side they can’t cross the imaginary line and do anything to it or the guy trying to catch it.

  14. gianthead said, on October 18, 2018 at 10:31 am

    I’m having trouble copying the rule. MLB rule 3.16, if a player reaches over the fence, can not have fan interference…

    Pretty clear Mookie reaches over the fence…no it is BS for the Stros to blame the loss on this. Why don’t they actually get their pitchers get some outs…

    • gianthead said, on October 18, 2018 at 10:37 am

      Rule 3.15 to 3.17
      30
      If, however, he kicks the ball or picks it up or pushes it, that is considered intentional interference,
      regardless of what his thought may have been.
      PLAY: Batter hits ball to shortstop, who fields ball but throws wild past first baseman. The coach
      at first base, to avoid being hit by the ball, falls to the ground and the first baseman on his way to retrieve
      the wild thrown ball, runs into the coach. The batter-runner finally ends up on third base. Whether the
      umpire should call interference on the part of the coach is up to the judgment of the umpire and if the
      umpire felt that the coach did all he could to avoid interfering with the play, no interference need be
      called. If, in the judgment of the umpire, the coach was attempting to make it appear that he was trying
      not to interfere, the umpire should rule interference.
      3.16 When there is spectator interference with any thrown or batted ball, the ball shall be
      dead at the moment of interference and the umpire shall impose such penalties as in his
      opinion will nullify the act of interference.

      APPROVED RULING: If spectator interference clearly prevents a fielder from
      catching a fly ball, the umpire shall declare the batter out.
      Rule 3.16 Comment: There is a difference between a ball which has been thrown or batted into the
      stands, touching a spectator thereby being out of play even though it rebounds onto the field and a
      spectator going onto the field or reaching over, under or through a barrier and touching a ball in play or
      touching or otherwise interfering with a player. In the latter case it is clearly intentional and shall be
      dealt with as intentional interference as in Rule 3.15. Batter and runners shall be placed where in the
      umpire’s judgment they would have been had the interference not occurred.
      No interference shall be allowed when a fielder reaches over a fence, railing, rope or into a stand to
      catch a ball. He does so at his own risk. However, should a spectator reach out on the playing field side
      of such fence, railing or rope, and plainly prevent the fielder from catching the ball, then the batsman
      should be called out for the spectator’s interference.
      Example: Runner on third base, one out and a batter hits a fly ball deep to the outfield (fair or
      foul). Spectator clearly interferes with the outfielder attempting to catch the fly ball. Umpire calls the
      batter out for spectator interference. Ball is dead at the time of the call. Umpire decides that because of
      the distance the ball was hit, the runner on third base would have scored after the catch if the fielder had
      caught the ball which was interfered with, therefore, the runner is permitted to score. This might not be
      the case if such fly ball was interfered with a short distance from home plate.
      3.17 Players and substitutes of both teams shall confine themselves to their team’s
      benches unless actually participating in the play or preparing to enter the game, or coaching
      at first or third base. No one except players, substitutes, managers, coaches, trainers and bat
      boys shall occupy a bench during a game.
      PENALTY: For violation the umpire may, after warning, remove the offender from
      the field.

  15. gianthead said, on October 18, 2018 at 10:39 am

    Sorry was not trying to paste the whole and other rules. Here is the relevant portion:

    No interference shall be allowed when a fielder reaches over a fence, railing, rope or into a stand to catch a ball. He does so at his own risk. However, should a spectator reach out on the playing field side of such fence, railing or rope, and plainly prevent the fielder from catching the ball, then the batsman should be called out for the spectator’s interference.

    • gianthead said, on October 18, 2018 at 10:42 am

      I really don’t see these fans reaching over into the playing field…what else can you do if you are about to take one off the groin???

  16. gianthead said, on October 18, 2018 at 10:51 am

    This is an interesting view…

    • gianthead said, on October 18, 2018 at 10:52 am

      Is his glove closed or does the fan knock his glove closed?

      • xoot said, on October 18, 2018 at 11:01 am

        I think several video angles showed that the glove closed because it collided with a hand (or hands).

  17. xoot said, on October 18, 2018 at 10:58 am

    The various available views don’t really show the plane of the wall in relation to any of the hands. Even the guy with one hand on the wall for balance appears to be reaching slightly behind the wall with his outstretched hand. So there’s no way Lard Ass Joe West could’ve known whether interference occurred from where his obese butt was waddling, down by the foul line. Without interference, it was clearly a HR, right? If West had simply called it a HR, the evidence wouldn’t’ve been conclusive enough to overrule that call. Why did West leap to the further conclusion that interference he could not see occurred? Because he’s an effing bull-headed self-promoting asshole, mediocre as an ump at his best and terrible when he feels the spotlight on him. He shouldn’t be allowed on a PS field.

  18. unca_chuck said, on October 18, 2018 at 11:30 am

    This is stupid. If they aren’t going to put a camera up to determine plays like this, they shouldn’t even let the fans get in the way of home runs, or potential home runs. Down the foul lines is different. Build it so the fans can’t interfere. Fucking dumb.

    What was the call? Fan interference?

    • gianthead said, on October 18, 2018 at 12:04 pm

      Interference

    • Flavor said, on October 18, 2018 at 2:49 pm

      excellent point

  19. dirtnrocksnomo said, on October 18, 2018 at 11:49 am

    I didn’t see the play live but have seen the replays and what struck me was Betts initial reaction didn’t seem to be that he was interfered with and players are usually pretty quick to identify it when it has happened.

  20. unca_chuck said, on October 18, 2018 at 12:19 pm

    I mean, they might as well let folks bring in fishing nets to try and catch balls near the fence.

  21. djloo27 said, on October 18, 2018 at 1:30 pm

    I never tire of this…

  22. Flavor said, on October 18, 2018 at 2:53 pm

    one thing I agree about: there is no way West could make that call so quickly from where he was. I think all the fans are over the line but I don’t KNOW that for sure. As Xoot said, if he stayed out of it, called it an HR and then let replay look at it they would have just left it as an HR. There is nothing conclusive about that play even from 4 different angles. So how the fuck can Fatso make that call?

    • djloo27 said, on October 18, 2018 at 3:07 pm

      I can’t stand West, but he called it as he saw it in real time.
      That’s pretty much the job description…

  23. gianthead said, on October 18, 2018 at 4:25 pm

    If it were a Giant hitting a potential playoff homer and I was in the stands and Betts was jumping in, without reaching over the imaginary line, I would try and RIP his glove off.

  24. xoot said, on October 18, 2018 at 5:26 pm

    Fun fact (iirc): both Altuve and JD Martinez were in the LU for Houston the night Cain pitched his perfect game.

  25. wilcojoe said, on October 18, 2018 at 7:30 pm

    The Astros could use a Hunter Pence motivational speech right about now.

  26. willedav said, on October 18, 2018 at 8:03 pm

    Costello to Arcega-Whiteside, touchdown Stanford.
    Memo to Shaw: this is the only way you can score so learn to love it and let him rip

  27. xoot said, on October 18, 2018 at 8:53 pm

    Woulda been easier to root for Houston vs the bums than for Boston. Maybe the brewers will take care of that problem.

  28. James said, on October 18, 2018 at 9:40 pm

    Joining Paul in rooting for LA-Boston WS. I suspect I have more in common with the majority of fans of those teams than Milwaukee’s or Houston’s. I’ll take dirty Manny Machado over Josh Hader any day.


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