A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Money Not Well Spent

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on January 30, 2019

It’s definitely tough to keep the remaining open arms of the Flap humming in the off season–even tougher when nothing is happening and baseball is basically colluding to force all these superstars to sign lower deals.

Calling it collusion is a little misguided although I’m sure I’d lose that argument in court. I think owners are just tired of paying absurd contracts to guys entering their 30s. It worked when everyone was on steroids but the days of a 37 year old pitcher dominating are pretty much over. Side note: it’s obviously not over in football where a 41 year old man can juice his brains out  and still go to the Super Bowl.

Anyway, they really need to address how free agency is done at the next CBA. I stand with the owners.  I, too, wouldn’t want to be forced into handing over 2-3 hundred million to a player who is going to suck for the last half of the deal…..

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  1. blade3colorado said, on January 30, 2019 at 7:18 am

    Whoa! Absolutely excellent thread post Craig . . .You “get it” and the rest of the world is still hoping for a Harper or Machado landing.

    I was going to post this column yesterday, but didn’t because it might be too technical. You decide. Here’s the gist of the column in one paragraph should you want to skip it:

    “That’s bad news if you were a batter already behind the curve in terms of the “launch angle revolution” but it’s catastrophic — like, walk into the ocean with rocks in your pocket awful — if you’re an offensive player who’s thirty or older, or even approaching thirty. Teams feel comfortable with being able to replicate declining veteran performance with young, pre-arb / league minimum guys thanks to the advances in scouting and training.”


  2. willedav said, on January 30, 2019 at 7:34 am

    Sorry, much respect as I have for P Mags I can’t go over to owners side. They instituted their own salary cap with the lux tax and for years have given back revenue money to teams not interested in spending enough money to compete, thereby encouraging it. At very least a floor should be set if you are going to regulate and penalize a ceiling.

    What has to change are for starters the arb rules, minor league salaries, and roster sizes. As I’ve said before, if you want to gripe about Posey being overpaid nowadays, take a look at what he did in first few years vs. what he was making then. And this happens to Cody Bellingers of the world too. Ownership gets away with paying severe under market salaries to younger players no matter how well they do until they acquire enough service time for arb to kick in.

    One final rant on Giants (and others) vs. lux tax. If I read the situation correctly, the penalty is only on how much you go over it. In other words, say for sake of argument cap is $200 mil. If your AAV paid out in salary comes to $205 mil, the penalty you pay is based on a pct of the $5 mil, NOT $205 mil. In other words, peanuts to the billionaire clubs and their owners.

  3. sandog said, on January 30, 2019 at 8:03 am

    I got no problem with what is happening this off season in MLB. I don’t think its collusion either. Owners just getting smarter and I’m good with that.
    As for the Giants and Z-Man, I’ll be ecstatic if they pull off a stunner and land Machado or Harper. If they don’t do that, I’d be happy with a couple of decent right hand bats…..Matt Davidson/Adam Jones/Evan Gattis come to mind…..2 of those guys would be cool. If Markakis got one year 4 million, we ought to be able to get two of those guys on similar deals—probably even for less money each than Markakis got.
    Go either of those directions and retain Belt and Bum and I’m happy.

  4. willedav said, on January 30, 2019 at 8:20 am

    ooh, it appears Giants and MLB are about to lose another fav son. Reports indicate Frank Robinson in very poor and failing health.
    I dug the Reds teams he was on and followed his career thereafter. Giants used to run funny commercial with I think Chili Davis complaining about new unis, til him and buddy noticed Robby in vicinity and changed tune.

    Respect him for how he played in the era when without armor he crowded plate vs. Drysdales of his time and stood in there and took lumps without trainers or medevac unit, took his base and wouldn’t give pitcher satisfaction of thinking he hurt him. And took his revenge at the plate, without kissing his bat or running around like a fool after one of his 500+ (top of my head) bombs.

    • alleykat69 said, on January 30, 2019 at 11:10 am

      Dug Frank Robinson he was a a baller as a player, all out all the time! Still feel he was underrated with all the accomplishments he achieved in his career playing second fiddle to the likes of Mays,Aaron,Clemente etc.

  5. unca_chuck said, on January 30, 2019 at 9:40 am

    You ain’t sold on the TB12 supplements or Brady’s ‘special’ diet, Flav?


    Where’s Alex Guerrero?

  6. Bozo said, on January 30, 2019 at 9:51 am

    Pitchers and catchers report on the 12th and start popping the glove on the 13th. Spring is on the way, hang in there Flav.

  7. Macdog said, on January 30, 2019 at 10:28 am

    From Jayson Stark:

    Time for the first All-Unemployed Team of 2019!

    1B – Mark Reynolds, 2B – Josh Harrison, SS – Manny Machado, 3B – Mike Moustakas, Util – Marwin G

    LF – Bryce Harper, CF – Adam Jones, RF – CarGo, DH – Evan Gattis, C – Martin Maldonado

    Rotation: Dallas Keuchel, Ervin Santana, Gio Gonzalez, Wade Miley, James Shields

    Closer: Craig Kimbrel
    Set-up crew: Ryan Madson, Brad Boxberger, Bud Norris, Tyler Clippard, Jerry Blevins, Jake Diekman
    Opener: Sergio Romo

  8. Macdog said, on January 30, 2019 at 11:08 am

    And from Baggs:

    Giants say Mike Gerber cleared waivers and was outrighted to Sacramento.

    Adds that Gerber is still invited to major league spring training.

    • alleykat69 said, on January 30, 2019 at 1:49 pm

      Makes sense Gerber cleared waviers,no other teams would want are scrub pick ups.

  9. zumiee said, on January 30, 2019 at 12:00 pm

    As a side benefit to the owners, it turns out that sabermetrics has given owners the evidence they can use to shred free agency and NOT be successfully accused of collusion.
    In the next bargaining sessions, the players are going to have to fight for better terms for arbitration and less years to get to free agency. If the teams are now valuing most the young players, then the players have to fight for ways to get paid more in their younger years.

  10. dirtnrocksnomo said, on January 30, 2019 at 1:03 pm

    Sort of interesting to see this happening to MLBPA which has been one of the strongest unions in America. Really, it just mirrors what’s happening been happening across other industries for decades.

  11. sandog said, on January 30, 2019 at 2:21 pm

    Anybody with me on signing 2 of the Gattis/Jones/Davidson trio?
    We need some sticks and we got nothing in the farm system. We can accommodate 2 of those guys and still get plenty of AB’s for the Macs and Gerbers and Drew Fergusons of this world.
    I want to have a chance to sniff a wild card spot and I think it is doable with a couple of veteran reinforcements.
    Short term deals of course.

    • Bozo said, on January 30, 2019 at 2:40 pm

      Jones and Marwin Gonzalez would make me happy.

    • blade3colorado said, on January 30, 2019 at 2:43 pm

      None of these guys excite me SD. Davidson, after a hot start (.984 OPS in April), cooled off considerably and was non-tendered by the White Sox. He has expressed a desire to be used as a reliever, so maybe that makes him just a bit more attractive to the Giants (but probably not). Gattis has good power, but not much else. He had a 99 wRC+ and has played a total of five defensive innings in the last two seasons. He would be a disaster in the outfield in my opinion. Jones is a free-swinger (3.9 BB% in ’18, 4.4 for his career) and has seen his numbers trend the wrong direction since 2015. He has reverse platoon splits for his career, so he wouldn’t make a ton of sense for what the Giants are looking for.

      All things considered, I would rather have the Macs, Gerbers and Fergusons of this world play in our outfield. But that’s just me. 🙂

    • djloo27 said, on January 30, 2019 at 2:49 pm

      djloo27 said, on January 19, 2019 at 11:43 am (Edit)

      I clamored for a Melky return for years.
      Markakis is another guy I always liked.
      Now they’re both too old, but for one year each, why not?
      Throw in Jones or Pollack and we got a new (old) outfield.
      Can’t go into the season with the current clownfield…

      • blade3colorado said, on January 30, 2019 at 3:03 pm

        I would actually be down with Melky playing for us (and was when you “clamored” for him if you recall). He’s cheap – $1 million dollars last season with Cleveland and is projected to hit .278, with .329 OBP, .424 SLG and .753 OPS.

      • blade3colorado said, on January 30, 2019 at 3:05 pm

        . . . and that’s his lowest projection.


  12. zumiee said, on January 30, 2019 at 3:14 pm

    Melky sneaked out of the clubhouse without saying goodbye in 2012, which rubbed some players the wrong way; BUT who’s even left from that 2012 team? So that may not even be a factor.
    Off the top of my head, who’s left is Posey, Crawford, Belt, and Bum. Those four do pack a lot of leadership power with the team; but still, that was seven years ago now. The Giants went on to win two championships after Melky left, so it’s hard to see those Giants still carrying much of a grudge at all.

    • zumiee said, on January 30, 2019 at 3:16 pm

      Same with Giants fans. Is that still a burning grudge with lots of Giants fans? I doubt it.

    • djloo27 said, on January 30, 2019 at 6:45 pm

      and the Panda, who was also welcomed back…

  13. gianthead said, on January 30, 2019 at 6:53 pm

    This is why this is collusion…in all leagues there is at least one owner, ala an Al Davis, Steinbrenner of old, Cuban, Jerry Jones, James Dolan, who says I dont give a fuck I want Bryce Harper for a bazillion dollars. There is not one baseball owner today that would do whatever??? I dont buy it. They are in cahoots to stop long term deals…

  14. PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on January 30, 2019 at 7:18 pm

    I’m usually not one to say “If I was an owner…”, because the only things I really *own* are my clothes, but if I was an owner, I’d focus on structuring contracts to be heavily incentive-laden, across the board. Guarantee a bottom line salary with a bunch of milestones for the hitters to reach (pitchers too, to some extent) that if they did reach them, they’d be well paid and in theory would help the team succeed. The result of this would probably be a) putting my team at somewhat of a competitive disadvantage, and b) only hungry younger guys would want to come (and maybe a c), players union might have a problem with that), but still worth it, IMO. Pay Harper $300million? Hell no. Pay him guaranteed half that and if he reaches his incentives it would clearly help the team win and then he would’ve earned it. Never happen, but I would have no problem making these guys earn their millions….

    • Flavor said, on January 30, 2019 at 7:33 pm

      their mindset is, they’ve already earned them. And I see that take. They “slaved” away for 6 years making shit compared to their older teammates and probably produced more than their older teammates. So they just want the money. Obviously as fans, we want more from them.

      • PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on January 30, 2019 at 8:06 pm

        Yep, that’s true, but you gotta start somewhere. If all teams built all of their contracts as incentives-based, then eventually there wouldn’t be anymore of those older guys making top coin for doing very little and pissing off the younger guys.

  15. Flavor said, on January 30, 2019 at 7:35 pm

    I don’t have anything against Melky (anymore) as time does heal most wounds. I do think he was a bitch for sneaking off in the night after he got busted. But whatever, if he wanted to come back and the team wanted to pay him I could get down with that. I don’t really want it to happen since Melky isn’t very good anymore. But, we suck, he would be an improvement on the shit currently slated to be out there…..

  16. djloo27 said, on January 31, 2019 at 4:04 am

    I wonder if Pence was invited to ST by anyone…

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