THE San Francisco Giants Blog

Pitchers Are Not Worth This $$$

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on November 5, 2019

So if the projections at mlbtraderumors.com are correct, you can have Cole at 8 years/256 mil or Bumgarner at 4 years/72 million. I’d choose neither but obviously go with Bum if someone put a gun to my head and said “choose one.”

Bum’s deal, if that’s what he gets, is at least manageable and if/when he goes down again it’s not a deal that is going to paralyze a franchise—like the Cole deal will when he goes down.

Pitchers are built to burn out rather than fade away. The free agency system that forces teams to pay for the best of a players years already long gone on the back of their baseball card is broken.

The silver lining in all of this is that Young Z doesn’t seem like a guy who would get caught up in the madness of a Boras-fueled contract escalation.

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  1. blade3colorado said, on November 5, 2019 at 6:06 am

    Like a cold shower, your post is spot on Flav. Snarkk also was correct last night too, i.e., read this October 31st article and you’ll know exactly why we should have gotten rid of MadBum at the trade deadline last season.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonywitrado/2019/10/31/san-francisco-giants-mlb-free-agency-madison-bumgarner/#3c05839a2770

    Want more? WE ARE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO COMPETE NEXT SEASON, so forget about big splash free agent signings. Read the writing on the wall or this article (below), which says in part:

    “The current organization is also, as you know, one of the worst pro sports franchises in the galaxy, and don’t figure to be any more competitive than an Single-A team for the next 3-5 years, if ever. Remember: a rebuild is not guaranteed to succeed and what’s genius and cutting edge today can very easily become overnight the 2017 Giants. That means we shouldn’t expect any splashy free agent signings or even a series of mid-range or “team-friendly” deals that can help the Giants in 2020. It’ll be a lot like last year, most likely, where the team focuses on adding at the margins just to get through the 162-game season. The added wrinkle, of course, is that this year, there’s no farewell tour for Bruce Bochy and Madison Bumgarner and, therefore, absolutely no reason to even give the vague appearance of attempting to compete.”

    By the by, the aforementioned is from one of the biggest Giants cheer leader writers I know and he’s even “smelled the coffee” and woken up.

    https://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2019/11/4/20925926/all-the-free-agents-the-sf-giants-wont-sign-mlb-free-agency-2019

  2. Flavor said, on November 5, 2019 at 6:13 am

    I actually missed it that we hit both Bum and Smith with a QO. Anyway, everyone is talking like this was just a forgone conclusion and if that’s the case I’m wondering why Bum didn’t ask the Giants to trade him at the break. The QO will obviously depress his next contract so not only did the GIants fuck him on the last deal they’re fucking him again on his next deal.
    But maybe Bum is fucking himself a little, too?

    • blade3colorado said, on November 5, 2019 at 6:29 am

      I am probably the only one here who believes Bum thinks he “hit the jackpot” on that last contract he signed. Why? Bum doesn’t require a lot to be happy. Give him a farm, some cows and horses, his truck, and he’s satisfied.

      Better yet, one photo says it all (I thought it was in the Flapper Photo Bucket, but it isn’t). Ask Chi to post the photo of him and Bum at the Charlotte airport. Bum is flying off somewhere or arriving in blue jeans, beat up boots, and a white t-shirt. That’s Bum – no frills, plain spoken, AND HAPPY.

      • chipower9 said, on November 5, 2019 at 9:03 am

        I manage a fucking IT department, but cannot figure out how to post a photo, here. WTF! LMAO…

        I sent you and Flav the photo of Bum and me in the Charlotte airport.

      • chipower9 said, on November 5, 2019 at 9:04 am

        And I think there is some validity in your comment that Bum thinks he has already hit the jackpot.

      • blade3colorado said, on November 5, 2019 at 9:08 am

        Yeah, that’s the photo. MINIMALLY, THIS BELONGS IN THE FLAP PHOTO BUCKET. Classic photo of you two Chi. I remember you describing his clothes and how “kick back from way back” Bum was.

      • gianthead said, on November 5, 2019 at 10:50 am

        That was on the way to Boston correct???

      • chipower9 said, on November 5, 2019 at 1:23 pm

        G-Head – yes, on the way to Boston. My flight out of Sacramento was delayed, so I ended-up on a different flight, and low-and-behold, I run into Bum and his wife (she snapped the photo).

  3. willedav said, on November 5, 2019 at 7:16 am

    Part of the job of GM or head of baseball ops is to do what you can to make your team as competitive as possible. Signing bum to reasonable deal appears to be something Z botched. He knew by end of July how this would unfold and has been so far unable to bring it to a resolution beyond the QO. I can understand not trading him last year at deadline if Z was unhappy with what was being offered and the timing did prove to be an issue as Giants were playing well. I do think this was a factor and made Z little more inflexible on who he wanted in return. He’s still talking about it too, on a clip at nbc site.

    My issue here is if you aren’t going to sign him then who takes his place and pitches 200 decent innings? Giants pitching last year was very spotty and should have been a lot better than it was given where they play. They have Smardz in his last year and Cueto coming back off injury and…?

  4. willedav said, on November 5, 2019 at 7:48 am

    Blade I read Brian Murphy’s column you linked to on MCC. Since you posted over there and backed him up, OK. But I can’t stand Murphy at all and disagree with him about 90%. Their daily reports on minor league ball are excellent. otherwise…

    • blade3colorado said, on November 5, 2019 at 8:13 am

      If you read my entire comment – as you indicated above – you know I qualified my comment by not necessarily backing him up completely as you state.

      Specifically, I prefaced it with, “Perhaps, I should also provide a mea culpa here, as I thought this was mostly a “fanboy” site, where nary a harsh judgement regarding the Giants was uttered.”

      Bottom line is that he hasn’t been one of my favorites in the past either. McCovey Chronicles in general hasn’t either, mostly because I have perceived them often as being too “rah, rah” for me.

  5. alleykat69 said, on November 5, 2019 at 8:57 am

    I think maybe you’re just going to see more teams going with 5-6 starters hoping to go 5-6 innings and having them all go 150 innings.Sadly the days of the stud starters are over, and now burning out bullpens is the new trend.Use to be 12 pitchers max on teams now it’s heading to a ridiculous 14 with thinner bench players…

    • chipower9 said, on November 5, 2019 at 9:09 am

      Agree, Kat. WillieD made a similar comment based on a book he is currently reading. MLB leadership is screwing the pooch and totally fucking-up our game, IMO.

      • blade3colorado said, on November 5, 2019 at 9:13 am

        Ahh! That’s where I remember seeing that (1 or 2 days ago?). Anywho, Willie was spot on.

      • chipower9 said, on November 5, 2019 at 10:12 am

        I believe it was in yesterday’s thread, Blade.

  6. gianthead said, on November 5, 2019 at 10:43 am

    If I were the Padres I would be all in on Cole. With the younger lineup plus Machado. A horse at the top of the rotation with decent younger arms around and a serviceable closer likely take the Pads to the next level. I prefer Cole at this stage and was thinking $240 over 10 is where I would want to go to stretch out dollars more on the back end to get past the Posey and the blind threesome in the IF. If you could start Cole off at $20 mill for 3-4 years, I think it is at least doable from an argument standpoint to try and get Bum at that $18 mill offer for 4 years. Would Cole take less up front (or give him the big signing bonus of $50 million and save some more up front) knowing that helps potentially save Bum and go with a Cole-Bum-Cueto trio with hopefully a decently returning Smardj in the 4 slot. Will have to look up the payroll drama to see if that then allows 1-2 free agents bats to be considered.

    If Pads pursue Strasburg 8nstead, then they are certifiable idiots. Let the Yanks chase that rabbit hole…

    • unca_chuck said, on November 5, 2019 at 11:25 am

      One pitcher would put the Pads at .500. Barely. One ridiculous deal got them nowhere. 2 ewill get them nowhere faster.

  7. gianthead said, on November 5, 2019 at 10:54 am

    Since it is highly unlikely mlb will go the Giant Head plan to add 2 more teams in an expansion and get rid of the DH…time to add two roster spots per team instead of this silly constant yo-yo shuffling players to the minor leagues and then back again…

  8. gianthead said, on November 5, 2019 at 11:04 am

    Ok going with Cot’s and their 2020 40 man payroll estimate at $116 million — $91 mill below the luxury tax — and 2021 will be even friendlier with potentially $120 mill under and 2022 a whopping potential $180 mill plus under the cap.

    So would seem counter intuitive but fitting Bum and Cole at $18 mill each for next 4 years (just for argument’s sake) and even 2 bats at $20-$25 mill each still would be under the luxury tax radar. Two arms and two bats I say. Would still leave potentially $100 million still on the table for 2022 for post post Cueto-Belt-Craw and just about done with Posey.

    • gianthead said, on November 5, 2019 at 11:07 am

      Correct that…Posey will be done. Will be just one more year of Longoria for 2023 but certainly he will hopefully be waived by then…

  9. unca_chuck said, on November 5, 2019 at 11:34 am

    Fuck Cole. This team needs another albatross Cole deal like I need more children.

    Bum doesn’t want to leave. I’ve been saying it since before last year started. Plain and simple. Give him 3/75-80 and he’ll be happy. At least start the talks there. Bummie, Smarge and Cueto isn’t a bad place to be.

    Cut Crawfish, trade Belt and Longo, eat a little (well, a lot) of green, and sign some more under-the-radar guys and let it roll. We might even be competitive for a while.

  10. unca_chuck said, on November 5, 2019 at 11:37 am

    Chuck, email me the pic and I can post it. If you have a Flickr account you can post it that way.

    • chipower9 said, on November 5, 2019 at 1:28 pm

      Just emailed it to you, Charlie.

  11. blade3colorado said, on November 5, 2019 at 12:13 pm

    I stand by what I said earlier – last place (maybe 75 games won), unless the Padres and Rockies face plant and again “gift” us 3rd place.

    Zero big name signings, especially if the player(s) have an agent named Boras. Get used to these types of names – Tony Sipp, Peter Bourjos, Pat Neshek, Yoshihisa Hirano, Juan Lagares, Leonys Martin, Jon Jay, etc., etc., etc.. In fact, the vast majority of our players will probably be picked up on the waiver wire and sign minor league type deals, with “prove your worth” clauses. In other words, just like last season. Hopefully, we’ll score the rare gold nugget ala Pillar, Dickerson. etc.

  12. unca_chuck said, on November 5, 2019 at 12:48 pm

    Fuck Forbes and their idiot ‘sports’ writers. Fuck their website as well. How many motherfucking ads can you fit on a single screen you assholes?

    As we beat to death last season if teams were offering diddly-squat for Bummie, the right move would be to keep him. Bunnie staying on a mid-level deal doesn’t kill the team.

  13. alleykat69 said, on November 5, 2019 at 12:55 pm

    I’d still try and get that RH power bat that plays LF that they never have a clue of getting.This year’s candidate for me Marcell Ozuna, 3/$45 works good while still giving Ramos alittle more time to groom,Bishop even more etc..
    OF…Ozuna LF
    CF…Davis/Pillar( though not sold if Z thinks he’s his guy)
    RF..Yaz
    Dickerson?? Bench Bat,Though with his injury history and lack of playing multiple positions he may be gone.

  14. alleykat69 said, on November 5, 2019 at 1:11 pm

    Will Smith contract last year $4,225,000..
    Giants offering 17.8 million for 1 year..4 times more coin..
    There is no way he turns that down, he will be the closer next year!! Book it!

  15. unca_chuck said, on November 5, 2019 at 1:40 pm

    Chi and Bummie. I brightened up the pic a little, Chuck.

    bummie and me

    • blade3colorado said, on November 5, 2019 at 1:51 pm

      Chi, tell everyone what you told me about his boots . . .

      • chipower9 said, on November 6, 2019 at 7:56 am

        Bum’s boots were “beat to fuck.” Looked like he had just come in from the barn after mucking some horse stalls.

    • willedav said, on November 6, 2019 at 8:06 am

      Tremendous picture! Would not want to be 60 ft 6 away from him even with bat in my hands.

    • Bozo said, on November 6, 2019 at 4:13 pm

      Such a great photo. Now, if you would have gotten one of the two of you sitting in the rocking chairs at the Charlotte airport, that would have been awesome topped with awesome sauce.

  16. unca_chuck said, on November 5, 2019 at 2:43 pm

    In the immortal words of Pee Wee Herman:

    Big boots . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . big feet.

  17. zumiee said, on November 5, 2019 at 5:57 pm

    Great photo!!

  18. alleykat69 said, on November 5, 2019 at 6:36 pm

    I knew we had the right hire with Chi as bullpen coach! Any advice you gave Bum?

  19. unca_chuck said, on November 5, 2019 at 7:25 pm

    Farhan is already stirring the roster. They claimed three players from other organizations: Right-handers Rico Garcia (Rockies) and Trevor Oaks (Royals), and infielder Kean Wong (Angels). The Giants DFAed Mike Gerber and Ricardo Pinto. Be still my heart.

    • PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on November 5, 2019 at 7:52 pm

      Gerber’s stats: BA/.042, OB/.115, OPS/.199. I don’t know how it’s even possible to be that terrible and occupy a roster spot for as long as he did. Pinto? Never heard of him. Z Man starting with the low hanging fruit…

      • alleykat69 said, on November 5, 2019 at 8:09 pm

        Well Connor Joe occupied a big league roster with us and hit .067 1-15 so anything’s possible.Damm I can’t believe they cut him after that hit broke up a 0-14 streak? 1-1 he was just hitting his stride…

      • Macdog said, on November 5, 2019 at 8:22 pm

        And such promise after hitting a double in his first AB as a Giant.

      • unca_chuck said, on November 5, 2019 at 8:39 pm

        We should send that shit to Trump.

    • blade3colorado said, on November 5, 2019 at 8:21 pm

      Two of these guys played in Hawaii, which is intriguing. Also, Kean is Kolten’s brother, so there’s the “gene” connection potential! He’s also played second, third, left field, center field, and right field in the minors.

      Next . . .

      • djloo27 said, on November 5, 2019 at 9:33 pm

  20. blade3colorado said, on November 5, 2019 at 8:34 pm

    I suspect Wong will stick because we literally have NO ONE in the minors to back up our SS, 2nd base, and 3rd base positions. In my opinion, SS and 2nd will be a time share/platoon all season long.

  21. unca_chuck said, on November 5, 2019 at 8:39 pm

    Yeah, Wong’s the only guy I’ve vaguely heard of.

  22. djloo27 said, on November 6, 2019 at 4:04 am

    If the Giants sign Wilmer and Puig, I might move to SF…

    • willedav said, on November 6, 2019 at 7:42 am

      Awesome! There was column in Chron a week ago about new younger Warriors players experiencing sticker shock over what it costs to live near where the new Arena is, compared to where they grew up or went to school.
      Sadly sports coverage there continues to go downhill.
      No more NBA box scores except for Warrior games. Argghh sign of apocalypse.

    • alleykat69 said, on November 6, 2019 at 10:38 am

      Lol Loo,
      I might consider Puig even though he has mental issues he still has skills and power the Giants could definitely use, but Wilmer I still can’t get over him crying like a little girl, theirs no crying 😢 in baseball!!!Stick with Solano a solid utility player that doesn’t cry!!

  23. zumiee said, on November 6, 2019 at 6:20 am

    For some reason, the DirectTV basic package has started showing the NBA network. This is a nice development. That channel used to be blacked out for me.

    • zumiee said, on November 6, 2019 at 6:22 am

      I hope it’s not some temporary promotion type of thing.

    • gianthead said, on November 6, 2019 at 8:27 am

      Same here Zum. I dropped one of my sport packages and that went with it so was happily surprised to see some of that Portland game on Monday.

  24. willedav said, on November 6, 2019 at 7:45 am

    Speaking of families, Cal mens b-ball has soph Jules Erving, from Georgia. Doc’s had quite an interesting life, from playing NY ball at Rucker with NBA guys while in HS, to ABA where he seldom knew when or if he was gonna get paid or by whom to some personal tragedies later. Bio is good read.

  25. alleykat69 said, on November 6, 2019 at 12:25 pm

    God the NBA is turning into a joke!
    Kawahi Leonard taking the night off cause of load management??
    The Clippers have played 6 games,haven’t played since Sunday and he needs a blow? I would be pissed off if I was a Clipper fan!

  26. unca_chuck said, on November 6, 2019 at 6:25 pm

    Shit, I don’t doubt it at all. With 2 months of playoffs after the grind of an 82 game season you are gonna see lots of guys take breaks all year.

  27. PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on November 6, 2019 at 7:36 pm

    Story on Giants website *predicts* who will be on the opening roster, recognizing of course that it’s way too early for that, but… they have as definite “locks” Craw at SS, Belt at 1b, and Longo at 3b. Sure as hell hope that ain’t true. They do have Dubon as a lock at 2b. We shall see….

  28. dirtnrocksnomo said, on November 6, 2019 at 9:01 pm

    • Flavor said, on November 7, 2019 at 5:55 am

      stupid. Baer has got to go. Again. He’s clearly overruled Zaidi’s wish to bring the fences is. For who? For what? His own stubborn ways….

      • zumiee said, on November 7, 2019 at 8:24 am

        Baer made the worst possible choice. He’s going to alter the ballpark YET leave in triples alley. How many triples do the Giants hit? This decision is clearly Baer’s. He spoke so lovingly of the triple a few months ago. He is clueless about where baseball is these days. The ball itself is different. How is Baer missing that?


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