A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Winter Begins

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on December 9, 2019

Winter Meetings start today. No expectations but I’m open to getting excited about something if it happens. Don’t really remember what the strip joints are like in San Diego. I know Sabean used to love his medium rare stakes back in the day. He would go hog wild in Miami.

I’m in Oakland all week for work and I don’t think I have a more hated interstate than I-80 so my mood promises to be surly.

Some good info at the end of the last thread from MacDog.


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  1. chipower9 said, on December 9, 2019 at 7:36 am

    Late to the show, and even though according to Blade Ozuna is going to the White Sox, my vote would be Ozuna (last thread).

    Will be interesting to see if anything interesting happens with the Gigantes at the winter meetings. Not holding my breath.

    What a fucking great Niner game yesterday. One for the ages. And the Seachicks lost to the Lambs. It was a good day to be a Niner fan.

    And Georgia and Utah lost this weeked, so my Sooners got into the dance via their OT win over Baylor. They match-up against LSU who is a beast. Should be a helluva game. Ohio State – Clemson should be a great game, too.

    • Flavor said, on December 9, 2019 at 7:48 am

      I am so sick of losing to Seattle. When was the last time we had a big game vs them and won? Hopefully that ends next time we play. Jimmy G really showed me something yesterday. What a stud he was. Being that good in that crazy loud environment can’t be overlooked.
      So sick of The Pats. Yeah they lost and look like shit but they finish out the year against Cinn, Buffalo then Miami. So another 12+ win season likely. Hopefully Buffalo beats them.

      • chipower9 said, on December 9, 2019 at 8:41 am

        I think Buffalo will beat the Patsies, even though it is in New England. Pats beat them in Buffalo by six earlier this year. Bills are a solid team, and New England looks to be done…they have no offensive firepower. Brady should just fucking retire after this year.

        And I do think the Niner go into the SeaChicks house and win that game in week 17.

  2. blade3colorado said, on December 9, 2019 at 8:00 am

    Ted Simmons, 70, has been elected to the HOF. He has benefited from modern metrics such as a Baseball-Reference.com’s Wins Over Replacement (WAR) figure of 50.3 and consequently was elected by a Veterans committee. Marvin Miller was also elected. ABOUT TIME! Every player should pray at the altar of Marvin Miller.

    After falling short in his first seven times on veterans committee ballots, Miller received 12 of 16 votes from this year’s 16-man modern committee, exactly the 75% required. Simmons was on 13 ballots, and former Boston outfielder Dwight Evans was third with eight.

    Back to Simmons . . . It would seem that if Buster doesn’t achieve Simmons 50.3 WAR level, he has zero chance of being elected to the HOF. Right now, he sits at 42.1

    • blade3colorado said, on December 9, 2019 at 8:02 am

      By the by, Miller’s family essentially told the HOF to shove it, i.e., they said he should have been elected over 20 years ago. I agree completely.

    • Flavor said, on December 9, 2019 at 8:04 am

      what’s he had, 5 great seasons? Not enough, man, not enough….

  3. willedav said, on December 9, 2019 at 8:13 am

    Yadier Molina is supposed to be a lock for HOF. No arguments from me on comps btw Posey and Simmons.
    But, career so far vs. Molina different story.
    Molina: 40 WAR .282 BA 156 HR 916 rbi .282 .333. 405 .738 OPS 98 OPS+

    Posey: 42 WAR .302 BA 140 HR 673 rbi .302 .370 .456 .826 OPS 128 OPS+

    IF he has regained health and can put up few decent years he catches Molina for HRs and pads his offensive numbers which already outstrip Molina for everything except rbis.

    • willedav said, on December 9, 2019 at 8:15 am

      Molina, who also makes $20 mil a year and was a 1.3 WAR player with .711 OPS last year, has apparently told Cards he might not be done after this season and wants to continue to play.

    • Flavor said, on December 9, 2019 at 8:20 am

      Molina is a lock?

  4. willedav said, on December 9, 2019 at 8:25 am

    Thx for Mac for filling in on 12-4 playoff teams. Even though Niners have looked great again last couple weeks they could still lose dang division if they can’t whip seachickens up there.

    Man Raiders could not have fallen farther. Prior to Sunday they were 4-1 at home, only place they had played decently and then get lit up in front of faithful by Ryan Tannehill and forget to score entire second half of ugly L.
    And as Madden used to put it, if Chucky is the answer, then I don’t know what the question is.

  5. blade3colorado said, on December 9, 2019 at 8:33 am

    Here are three links that say essentially, Molina is no HOFamer.




    Conversely, here are two sites which say he may qualify . . . Why? Read the part about pitch framing. FanGraphs incorporated framing into WAR in March, and a number of players were the biggest beneficiaries, on the order of 15-20 WAR, including Posey, who has shot up to 52.7 WAR! Wow!



    Just my take, but I think both of them do not deserve the HOF. Sheesh, they aren’t even borderline in my mind.

    • snarkk said, on December 9, 2019 at 8:38 am

      I don’t see how Posey is a HOFer. He’s got under 1400 hits and is in decline. 3 rings are unarguable. But he didn’t earn those by himself…

  6. gianthead said, on December 9, 2019 at 8:46 am

    How did I miss an Ozuna and Puig debate yday???? Yeah was watching three fantasy teams go down and one main money league I sat Garropolo and Mostert for Mahomes and Tyreek Hill…that mistake alone cost me the game. Would be about 25 points ahead with #1 seed still having Sanders tonight….

    I of course vote Ozuna over Puig since I have been hoping to land him since before his last year as a Marlin but I still getting both with Puig on a one year deal is possible.

    And realize I will always will be the lone minority politically here unless Loo is sticking with me but Linda Ronstadt was attending a State Department dinner and she refers to the Sectetary as Mr. Pompeo. Sorry but that is absolute no class. Anyone who has an office as such deserves the title they serve. Hillary Clinton is Secretary Clinton as would be Secretary Kerry, etc. If anyone does not have the respect and good graces to be civil in our democratic society while you attend a dinner by the host, then dont fucking go the dinner…I am one person thinks everyone deserves to be able to voice their opinion but this Democratic/media hatred to drive to an impeachment where he will never ever ever ever be convicted in the Senate and complete hysterical Trump hatred syndrome has created a frenzy in this country. Guess what people??? 63 million still voted for him, beat us in November, that is how a democracy works not what we are seeing in House Judiciary and in the House of Reps at large.

    • gianthead said, on December 9, 2019 at 8:48 am

      And of course I know Secretary Pompeo since he was a Freshman in the US House, and there arent many more down to earth guys ss I have run across in 25 years here in DC in politics….

    • chipower9 said, on December 9, 2019 at 10:13 am

      I will voice my opinion. Agree on titles being used, but I don’t get all bent outta shape over that. Linda Ronstadt? Could have been an oversight. MEH…

      Pompeo? He may be a “down to earth guy,” but when he was a Kansas senator, he was one of the biggest supporters of Monsanto. I know you like the guy G, but Pompeo can go fuck himself. Just my opinion.

      trump got 63 million votes. Three million less than Secretary Clinton. One more solid reason that the outdated Electoral College must go.

      And whether you agree or disagree with the stuff that went down in the House Intelligence committee, or is going down in the House Judiciary committee, I absolutely agree they must press on with articles of impeachment, even though we all know that trump will not be found guilty by the senate, because the majority is made-up of spineless whiny bitches. My preference would be to slow it down, and force Pompeo, Mulvaney, Bolton, and the other trump pranksters to testify.

    • djloo27 said, on December 9, 2019 at 11:31 am

      I agree – no class…

    • unca_chuck said, on December 9, 2019 at 12:09 pm

      Pompeo is a proud card-carrying Tea Party member. Hahahahahahaha!!!!!

      What happened there? Budget only matters under Democrats? Oh yeah. The last 3 Republicans blew up the deficit astronomically, Clinton got rid of it, yet the Republicans are the “fiscally responsible” ones.

      Trump is shitting on the vets by cutting services to them, shitting on gold star families, promoting war criminals, getting in the way of military justice, and bad-mouthing active service members. Yet the Dems are anti-military.

      If Pompeo is so down-to-earth, why did he sell his soul to Trump? For 50+ years now, EVERYONE Trump deals with, touches, or works with ends up in jail, stiffed, thrown under the bus, or disavowed.

      I seriously do not understand why people deal with him in any way shape or form. He blew all his shots with US banks in the 80s. So, he became a money launderer for Putin. He fucked up running casinos for fuck’s sake. Busted stealing from his own charity, his university was a ponzi scheme, and he’s blown a BILLION dollars.

      He’s a national security risk, an existential threat to our Democracy, and is hell-bent on destroying the planet.

      And the Republican party still clings to the Ukraine story.

      • chipower9 said, on December 9, 2019 at 12:52 pm

        What he said…

  7. dirtnrocksnomo said, on December 9, 2019 at 9:24 am

    I’m looking forward to these winter meeting because I think Zaidi is going to pull something off. The off season coaching announcements aren’t doing it for me and I hope to see some player movement.

    For me, Posey is a Giants hall of famer for sure I don’t see him as a MLB hall worthy. He’s been robbed of a couple of seasons due to injury but he’s not the first guy that’s happened to (or the last). The numbers just aren’t there.

    Molina is regularly referred to as a lock as in “Molina and his hall of fame career” but I don’t know why. I guess he’s the best or one of the best catchers of his era but is that a reason? Pierzynski, B Santiago and Pena are shown as comparables at baseball reference. Maybe he gets in but I thought there was a no neck tat policy at the HOF. If there isn’t there should be.

    • chipower9 said, on December 9, 2019 at 10:14 am

      No neck tat policy…LMAO.

    • Bozo said, on December 9, 2019 at 10:23 am

      Hold on Dirt, they are supposed to announce the complete coaching staff during the meetings. I think they’re just waiting for the BP coach’s mom to drop him off after school.

      After resetting their tax number and trading/non-tender other big contracts they do have money to make moves if they want to go in that direction. If they just want to keep dumping salaries, other teams are looking for SP and 3B. So if they need to save money on jersey lettering, they should be able to find teams willing to deal for Samardzija and/or Longoria.

      • dirtnrocksnomo said, on December 9, 2019 at 10:39 am

        lulz, after school drop off.

        Between Samardzija, Longoria or Belt it seems like some value can be found there but who knows. As far as changes go I’d like to see the front office just get it over with and bring the pain for a quicker turn around.

  8. alleykat69 said, on December 9, 2019 at 10:37 am

    Ted Simmons should of been in the HOF years ago.He was one of the best catchers during the 70’s not named Bench who got all the recognition.
    Simmons played everyday in the sweltering heat of StLouis (doubleheader’s too) was a clutch hitter,.285 lifetime,483 doubles,47 triples,248 HR’s and .350 obp,and a consistent slugging pct of over .800 most of his career.He also had more walks then K’s in his career 837-679 which not many I know can say that, which is an incredible stat especially for a catcher..

  9. Bozo said, on December 9, 2019 at 11:53 am

    Strasburg back to the Nats – 7 years $220

    • Bozo said, on December 9, 2019 at 11:53 am

      Oops, now they are saying $245

      • chipower9 said, on December 9, 2019 at 1:07 pm

        Yep. $35 mil per year. And they are saying Cole will get even more. Stupid Stupid Money…

      • djloo27 said, on December 9, 2019 at 2:52 pm

        Zito looks like a steal…

    • djloo27 said, on December 9, 2019 at 2:18 pm

      All good news for Bum…

  10. zumiee said, on December 9, 2019 at 12:17 pm

    Posey needs 2,000 hits to get in the HOF. He needs to do some serous compiling of hits in the next several years to get there.

    The traitorous criminal sociopath Trump will be impeached, and then the Republican senator Trump-cult members will vote not guilty; but hopefully Trump the sociopath will then decide to modify his criminal behavior perhaps a little bit. And the historical record will show that the House stood up to a criminal president, and did the best it could to hold him accountable.

  11. djloo27 said, on December 9, 2019 at 2:23 pm

    Maybe Trump is following the Godfather axiom of keeping your friends close, but your enemies closer…

    • zumiee said, on December 9, 2019 at 2:30 pm

      He may be trying it, but it will be the 3 Stooges version of it.
      As someone said, it’s like Watergate, but it’s Stupid Watergate.

  12. zumiee said, on December 9, 2019 at 2:37 pm

    Linda Ronstadt is a hero, speaking truth to power.

    My favorite Trump (former) cabinet member is Tillerson, who said Trump is an effing moron, and then later got fired or resigned, depending on whether you ask Tillerson or Trump. I’ll trust Tillerson over Trump.

  13. zumiee said, on December 9, 2019 at 3:06 pm

    Had Posey stayed healthy he would have been on track for the career 2,000 hits, and would have been a slam-dunk Hall of Famer. He’s still a career .300 hitter, but it’s highly likely that career average will be sliding downward. I don’t see him getting enough playing time, even if healthy, to have a bunch of 150 hit seasons in the future. He’s still a first-rate defensive catcher, but his ABs are no fun to watch anymore.

    • zumiee said, on December 9, 2019 at 3:09 pm

      He had 104 hits last season.
      He did have consecutive 150+ hit seasons from 2012-2017, but that seems like a long time ago.

  14. zumiee said, on December 9, 2019 at 3:11 pm

    Yadier Molina is loved by the media, for whatever reason. I think he gets in the HOF, although probably not on first ballot.

    • zumiee said, on December 9, 2019 at 3:13 pm

      Molina will pass 2,000 hits this season. The HOF voters love round benchmark numbers like that.

  15. djloo27 said, on December 9, 2019 at 3:19 pm

    How can Bum get anything less than 5/125 at this point?

    • Bozo said, on December 9, 2019 at 3:39 pm

      Yeah you right (dats, I agree in Louisiana speak)..

  16. alleykat69 said, on December 9, 2019 at 3:41 pm

    Here’s something to chew on Zumie,
    Ted Simmons has 8 straight years of having 150 hits are more,and in that same 8 year stretch had more walks then strikeouts..
    Also at the age of 33, he batted .308 and had 108 RBI’S for the Brew Crew!
    Do you are anyone else believe in this coming season when Posey turns 33 he will hit .300 are even close to 100 RBI’s? No chance imo..

    • djloo27 said, on December 9, 2019 at 4:06 pm

      djloo27 said, on June 26, 2019 at 8:43 pm (Edit)

      Posada and his 4 rings lasted about 10 minutes on the ballot.
      Ted Simmons was another C who could really rake.
      Never hear his name…

    • zumiee said, on December 9, 2019 at 4:32 pm

      Posey has all the major awards, basically, except HR and RBI crown.
      3 championship rings.
      Rookie of the Year
      Most Valuable Player
      Batting Title
      Gold Glove
      several Silver Slugger awards
      several All Star appearances
      And, to a lot of the national media, the Giants won the 3 championships with Bochy, Posey, Bumgarner, and a bunch of role players. That’s not really the true story, but that’s what the MEDIA thinks the story is. And a lot of the fans of other teams across the nation think that, too.There’s a lot of desire out there to see Posey get to the Hall of Fame, but the hits total is the weak spot. He hasn’t compiled enough.
      I base my take on discussions I’ve seen on the MLB Network, which gives a pretty good view of where the baseball media’s thinking is on any given subject. Lots of their guests are baseball reporters and columnists.

    • zumiee said, on December 9, 2019 at 4:35 pm

      I just looked up Posada’s hit total. 1,664. Yeah, he never had a chance on the ballot.

  17. alleykat69 said, on December 9, 2019 at 4:53 pm

    Another guy who has been screwed by the Hall is Sweet Lou Whitaker his stats every bit as strong as his DP partner Alan Trammel who’s in..
    Talk about a great combo working together, they turned 1,918 DP’s!!

  18. alleykat69 said, on December 9, 2019 at 5:51 pm

    Well I looked up the complete list of players all time with 2,000 hits and more..Their’s 288 players and out that 155 haven’t made to the HOF, more than half..So 2,000 hits doesn’t mean that much anymore..

    • blade3colorado said, on December 9, 2019 at 6:02 pm

      Agree. I was too lazy to look it up, so thanks AK. Moreover, as I alluded to earlier, the HOF voters (writers) are more disposed to cite Saber statistics today, such as WAR versus using old school statistics such as batting average, hits, wins (pitchers), etc.

      Regardless, Zum is right about Posey not having a realistic chance at the HOF. Sheesh, I would rather see Munson elected to the HOF due to his overwhelming ranking in 7 separate MVP races (in which he came in 1st once).

  19. snarkk said, on December 9, 2019 at 7:01 pm

    Pompeo is a disgrace. West Point cadet/graduate? What happened to Duty, Honor, Country? And no lying or tolerance of those who do? He’s conveniently forgot all that. The phone records now show Rudy had a regular chat session with the guy when Rudy was in Ukraine working with his fellow Russian stooges to slime our anti-corruption US Ambassador Yovanovitch. 33 years of spotless State Dept. service, and she’s railroaded. No wonder Pompeo wouldn’t stop her character assassination when he was asked — because he was IN ON IT. What a stand-up guy. Linda rightly called him Mister — because he’s disgraced the office once held by Thomas Jefferson.
    Anyway, Bum looks like he should get some cash money, finally. Unlikely though, from the Giants…

  20. zumiee said, on December 9, 2019 at 7:07 pm

    2,000 hits for a catcher is seen as a bigger deal for the HOF voters than other positions.

    • snarkk said, on December 9, 2019 at 7:26 pm

      Buster has a long way to go…

      • zumiee said, on December 9, 2019 at 7:43 pm

        His playing career may end when his current contract ends.

      • djloo27 said, on December 9, 2019 at 8:13 pm

        I think you’re right about that, Zum.
        Too many foul tips off the mask and doesn’t hit enough to DH.
        And obviously doesn’t need more money…

  21. zumiee said, on December 9, 2019 at 7:39 pm

    Kings game, incredible finish!!! Beat the Rockets at the buzzer!!!

    • zumiee said, on December 9, 2019 at 7:41 pm

      I’m all in on Luke Walton as coach.

  22. blade3colorado said, on December 9, 2019 at 7:50 pm

    Pompeo, Gaetz, Nunes . . . all of those morons have their collective heads so far up Trump’s ass, I can’t tell where they end and he begins. Fuck them all.

    • zumiee said, on December 9, 2019 at 8:11 pm

      All of them are spouting talking points from Putin, the KGB thug. Quite a situation for our nation.

      • zumiee said, on December 9, 2019 at 8:17 pm

        Putin has had hours of private conversations with Trump over the last few years. It would be great to know what went on in those conversations. No doubt lots of Putin’s propaganda got drilled into Trump’s head.

    • snarkk said, on December 9, 2019 at 8:55 pm

      Hard for me to say, but I’d take another four years of Reagan compared to this disaster…

  23. djloo27 said, on December 9, 2019 at 8:26 pm

    Welcome to The Flapsky…

  24. snarkk said, on December 9, 2019 at 8:54 pm

    I hope Bum gets a nice contract and goes into the playoffs and deals, next year.
    It won’t be for SF, but I wish him well…

    • zumiee said, on December 9, 2019 at 8:57 pm

      Yeah, it would be great to see him in the playoffs again. I just still think the Yankees are a great fit. They could promise to let him bat once in a while.

  25. Macdog said, on December 9, 2019 at 9:49 pm

    Linda Ronstadt is somehow disrespectful to a piece of shit like Pompeo, yet there’s no problem with Trump hurling insults like . . .

    Crooked Hillary
    Crazy Joe Biden
    Lyin’ Ted
    Fat Jerry
    Shifty Schiff

    and on and on and on. Gimme a fucking break.

  26. zumiee said, on December 9, 2019 at 10:17 pm

    To review the Kings’ swing through Texas….
    Lost in overtime to the Spurs, and then defeated the Mavs and the Rockets.
    Pretty darned cool.

  27. zumiee said, on December 9, 2019 at 10:25 pm

    The German dude’s great cover version of this great Elvis Costello song:

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