THE San Francisco Giants Blog

Waiting On A Single Heartbeat

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on December 10, 2019

Screenshot 2019-12-10 at 5.07.47 AM

Uh, ok, but you did absolutely nothing last year so….

It’s funny to me to read Giants fans who still want SF to sign Bum now that his impending deal seems to be 9 figures. Everyone just loses their minds in the Winter…

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  1. Bozo said, on December 10, 2019 at 6:38 am

    Parra and Kratz are FAs, I wonder if Zaidi has scheduled meetings with those guys.

    • Flavor said, on December 10, 2019 at 8:03 am

      he’ll sign and waive both 3 times by the end of the week….

  2. willedav said, on December 10, 2019 at 7:16 am

    So, what is GM’s plan for replacing bum, an SP that gave your team 200 decent innings, and Smith, the guy who saved 30 some odd games? Gotta believe signing either of them to an extension, even after deadline, would have been cheaper than what they are both getting paid now.
    And would have given young guys on staff more breathing room, and allowed for 2020 team to be more successful than without them.

    • Flavor said, on December 10, 2019 at 8:06 am

      I’m not sure what his plan is but if it has anything to do with not handing over 9 figure deals to pitchers I’m on board. Giving Stras 245 million was just flat out drunk gming. There’s no other way to say it. That something one of their fans might do. The GM should be more responsible.

  3. Flavor said, on December 10, 2019 at 8:07 am

    ugh.

  4. Flavor said, on December 10, 2019 at 8:08 am

    interesting

    • Flavor said, on December 10, 2019 at 8:13 am

      looks like he would have only lost about 10 of those at Oracle, I would have guessed it was more

  5. snarkk said, on December 10, 2019 at 8:37 am

    The Giants aren’t going to be good in 2020.
    That’s what happens in the middle of a rebuild.
    Sabean was in control for 20 years.
    We can give the Zman at least 3 to turn around the stinking pile he was handed…

  6. unca_chuck said, on December 10, 2019 at 8:51 am

    Of those 10 it looks like about 6 of them would be HRs in the new configuration.

    Did the CFer die on the lone one in the OF?

    • alleykat69 said, on December 10, 2019 at 10:04 am

      Pillar did a face plant missed it and nobody backed up as Nick circled the bases for an inside the park HR?

  7. willedav said, on December 10, 2019 at 10:13 am

    Sabes actually got the rebuild started. He is the one who drafted Ramos, who appears to be best prospect OF they’ve had in long time, and Bart the top rated prospect who will take over for Posey. also Luciano heir apparent for Crawford. Not to mention Shaw Slater and Beede and rest of the young pitchers. According to the column blade linked to a week ago, Z is responsible for only 3 of Giants top 10 prospects in system.

    Sabes is also who acquired most of the relief pitching, Moronta Dyson Smith (and of course Melancon). There was a plan in place. so now that Z has dumped most of them off, let’s see what’s up with his plan for Giants pen. Even Hank admits Giants have money and lux tax not an issue.
    I can give GM and Kapler a pass on 2020, but not by mid 2021.

    • unca_chuck said, on December 10, 2019 at 11:20 am

      Sabes should have gotten the rebuild started 8 years ago, not 2.

      • blade3colorado said, on December 10, 2019 at 11:33 am

        Good point. Although I agree with most of Willie’s post, it’s missing one important factor – developing your minor league players, which I think was woefully unsatisfactory, e.g., most of the minor league teams came in last place prior to Z coming on board and the pipeline essentially dried up insofar as impact players coming to Oracle Park.

        Coupled with the aforementioned, the Moneyball thesis is simple: Using statistical analysis, teams can compete by buying assets that are undervalued by other teams and selling ones that are overvalued by other teams. The best-known Moneyball theory was that on-base percentage was an undervalued asset and sluggers were overvalued.

        Just my take, but this is where Z and the people he brought on board – GM, manager, new scouts, farm director, etc., excel. This is not to criticize Sabes, because i loved the guy . . . but his methods had become too old school and other teams have moved on.

      • Bozo said, on December 10, 2019 at 11:38 am

        Eight years ago? I don’t know, I kinda liked those WS wins in 2012 and 2014.

      • unca_chuck said, on December 10, 2019 at 12:16 pm

        We didn’t draft anybody worth a damn from about 2010 on. Joe Panik, drafted in 2011, is about the only impact player drafted in the past 10 drafts.

  8. willedav said, on December 10, 2019 at 10:17 am

    Hey Loo–on page 189, found the Joe Schultz quote June 1 , “Stomp the piss out of them.” Library has new updated version (with 3 5 10 20 years later and epilogue) 100 extra pages of “Ball Four The Final Pitch.”

    Very cool, never read this before ever…tons of good stuff.

  9. willedav said, on December 10, 2019 at 11:25 am

    I get Sabes bashing and he certainly deserves his share. Still, look what has happened to teams that have won WS lately, one each for Red Sox Cubs and Stros. LA of course has zero this decade and way beyond.

    Cubs are talking about trading Bryant to stay under lux tax. They owe Heyward $85 mil for 4 years, paid Lester $27mil last year and owe him $20 more mil this year. Won lot of games but let Maddon walk and missed playoffs.
    Red Sox paid heavily for pitching that fell apart on them and still owe Price and Sale. And of course face looming decision on Betts. They have new GM and missed playoffs by lot last year.
    Stros have lot of issues, on field and off. They still owe Greinke and Verlander but will lose Cole for sure. Strong team still but 1 WS ring and holding.

    None of above can hold candle to what Giants did this decade that is coming to a close, with divergent casts of heroes from Cody Ross to Rent/Uribe Sando Romo Wilson Ishi Bum and Scut..too many others to name.

    • willedav said, on December 10, 2019 at 11:38 am

      list of cool players that came through here 3/5, and beyond is something to think about.

    • Bozo said, on December 10, 2019 at 11:45 am

      Agreed.

    • djloo27 said, on December 10, 2019 at 11:49 am

      You can throw the Royals on top of that shitpile as well…

  10. snarkk said, on December 10, 2019 at 11:39 am

    None of Sabes top rated picks still in the system have played an inning of MLB. We’ll see how they do. Of course the top prospects, such as they are, are mostly his, since Zman has only been here for one draft. I don’t understand the negativity onto this guy. The Giants had one of the worst records in mlb the 2.5 seasons before he got the keys handed over after the 2018 mess. He’s barely begun to right the ship. And he had to sit there while ownership let Bochy ride one last year in the saddle before really being set free to do what he wants. He’s got to have at least until the 2022 season start to fix this. Even then we’ll only have seen 3 of his drafts…

    • blade3colorado said, on December 10, 2019 at 11:45 am

      Concur. Good post.

      • snarkk said, on December 10, 2019 at 12:04 pm

        IDK, of course, but my guess is Bum would have been traded at the deadline last season had Bochy not been the manager. It is weird for a team to keep the manager and coaches in place for a year after hiring a new GM, regardless their contract situation. I think that may have hamstrung Zman on the start of the rebuild. But that’s how SF ownership rolls…

      • blade3colorado said, on December 10, 2019 at 12:16 pm

        Many of us think the faux Wild Card run in July totally screwed up Z’s plan to trade Bumgarner, Smith and who knows whom else . . . It was nice entertainment, but it also delayed the rebuild, along with what you said about Bochy. I can totally understand why Z didn’t trade these guys, especially Madbum. The fans would have crucified him.

  11. zumiee said, on December 10, 2019 at 12:04 pm

    When the Kings inbounded the ball with one second on the clock, and Bjelica shot the long three to win the game at the buzzer last night, I jumped out of my chair and screamed. Man, that was exciting. I’m still buzzing about it. That’s one of the reasons we watch sports- for moments like that.

  12. Flavor said, on December 10, 2019 at 12:12 pm

    Look, the Giants were the team of this about-to-wrap-up decade. That’s pretty indisputable if you just go by championships. But Sabean, frankly, got kind of lazy, handing out undeserved big $ deals to his core players. He did the bare minimum each off season never adjusting or planning for what would happen if injuries hit. Around the same time, the game began to change. He was unable to change with it. His stubbornness with sticking to the only way he knew how to do things led to our team’s demise. And, ultimately, his…..

    • blade3colorado said, on December 10, 2019 at 12:23 pm

      The only reason why our once great players are still here is because they all have long term contracts. They all turned into stiffs before their 30th birthdays. Couple that with adding the albatross contracts of Longo and Melancon, is it any wonder that we’re lousy? That was on Sabe’s watch.

  13. snarkk said, on December 10, 2019 at 12:29 pm

    I look back at the 3 in 5 decade, and I’m grateful. I thought after 2010 that I was sated as a long time SF fan; I only needed the one. Then 2 more happened. I figured out that winning it all really is way better the more it happens. Those titles are disappearing in the rear view. Time to look forward to getting #4– it will take time…

  14. unca_chuck said, on December 10, 2019 at 12:35 pm

    Sabes was here, what, 21 seasons? He NAILED the 2006, 2007, 2008, and even 2009 drafts.

    ’06 got us Timmy
    ’07 Bummie
    ’08 Posey and Crawfish
    ’09 Wheeler and Belt

    Cain was ’02, not sure when Pablo came, Panik was ’11.

    The moves Sabes made around that time mostly panned out as well. Scoots, Huff (1 year) Ross, Glasschez, Pat the Bat, Morse, Pence, even Melky.

    He hit it all for a good stretch. I’ll even give Sabes 2012 for getting Pence. Seems like he coasted out and handed the reins to Evans. Who did little to nothing but hand out bad deals.

    • Bozo said, on December 10, 2019 at 2:47 pm

      I see your point, unca but Sabean’s draft picks also helped us win championships by being trade bait.
      For example, to get Pence he traded Tommy Joseph, Seth Rosin and Nate the Great (all SF draft picks) and for Sanchez he traded Tim Alderson (2007 draft pick).
      He or Evans traded Phil Bickford (2015) and Andrew Susac (2011) for Will Smith, Arroyo (2013) and Span for Longo, although not resulting in championships still worth the shot (IMO).

      And if these guys pan out this year or next, you might want to add them to the list of picks after 09, Tyler Beede. Aramis Garcia and Logan Webb (2014). Chris Shaw (2015) not to mention, Bart, Ramos, Luciano and Canario coming soon.
      Just saying.

      • unca_chuck said, on December 10, 2019 at 3:06 pm

        Fuck off, clown!! Ooops. Sorry. Had a flashback . . .

        Uh, yeah, they made some decent moves, but I still think they basically failed these last 6 years. I do like Bart and Ramos, so we’ll just have to wait and see. I’m certainly glad they moved on from Sabevans.

      • Bozo said, on December 10, 2019 at 3:39 pm

        Fuck you, Bozo! 🙂

        Keep an eye on Luciano and Canario as well.

  15. unca_chuck said, on December 10, 2019 at 2:28 pm

    I guess my point is, but for the brief 4 year span of hitting the draft and prudent signings, Sabes was flailing in the dark like everyone else.

    I think the biggest innovation was his attention to the bullpen. By 2010. He had a solid staff, but paid his relievers very well before anyone else was doing that.

  16. Flavor said, on December 10, 2019 at 2:49 pm

    Gausman? Jeez, that is not exciting.

  17. unca_chuck said, on December 10, 2019 at 3:02 pm

    Zack Cozart? Is Longo on his way out? Ohpleasohpleaseohpleaseohplease.

    • unca_chuck said, on December 10, 2019 at 3:08 pm

      Or (gasp!) Crawfish? Be still my beating heart!

  18. blade3colorado said, on December 10, 2019 at 3:08 pm

    One of the reasons we began losing is because the front office got soft in the head and began to do stupid deals, where they rewarded our core position players and pitchers. The exceptions were Bumgarner and the excellent point Unca made about our relievers, especially our loogy specialists.

    For a couple of seasons (2017, 2018) no one in MLB was spending money and free agents were pissed off. I could give two shits. Fiscal responsibility is a key factor in MLB being competitive, if not surviving.

    So fast forward to last season (Harper, Trout) and especially this off season, many teams are back to spending outrageous sums for players. The Wheeler deal makes my head spin, but the $245 million Stephen Strasburg contract makes my head explode. What the fuck was the Nats owner thinking to give that kind of coin to a pitcher who just topped 176 innings pitched for the first time since 2014???? This dude also has had TJ surgery. Crazy! Didn’t the owner actually say that he could only afford Strasburg or Rendon? My take is that I will ALWAYS take the more stable or predictable outcome of a position player versus a pitcher. Every day and twice on Sunday.

    One of the reasons the Dodgers win so much is because the relatively new owners do not squander money. They concentrate on their minor league system and only spend money on key acquisitions. I like that Z earned his spurs with teams like the A’s and the Dodgers. I think the combination of philosophies – small market saber analysis (Money ball) and an efficient, large market team – will pay benefits for the Giants in the future. We just need to be patient.

  19. unca_chuck said, on December 10, 2019 at 3:18 pm

    Regardless of what Castellanos thinks of Oracle park, Blade. what do you think he gets? 4/$80? More? He raked with the Cubs when he got there.

    He wouldn’t be a terrible acquisition, but I think it’s still too early for Farhan to be signing guys to long-term deals.

    I just wish we had some right handed bats in the OF.

    • blade3colorado said, on December 10, 2019 at 3:25 pm

      Sheesh, I don’t know Unca . . . Some sites are saying he might get $96 million. Personally, I don’t think Z pulls the trigger on him. He is not a very good 3rd baseman. He would have to play the outfield or maybe 1st base.

    • blade3colorado said, on December 10, 2019 at 3:27 pm

      Also, good point about the Cubs. What I mean is – the fans LOVE HIM. He really made an impression during his late season stint with them. Consequently, I think the Cubs have the inside track on signing him.

  20. blade3colorado said, on December 10, 2019 at 3:23 pm

    I like the Cozart deal. Why? We pick up a former 2019 1st round pitcher, Wilson by taking on Cozart’s salary. Who knows? Maybe Cozart’s shoulder is now healed and he is also a hidden gem – dude is only 2 years removed from an All Star appearance.

    • snarkk said, on December 10, 2019 at 7:49 pm

      Wilson is a SS out of NC state.
      Not a pitcher, per bleacher report.
      Kinda foot slow, but good field, good hit with some pop, or so I’ve just read.
      Dunno why Angels would give up on him so soon, unless they just wanted to get rid of Cozart’s salary…

      • blade3colorado said, on December 10, 2019 at 8:14 pm

        Yeah, I transposed “pitcher” and meant to say “player.” They are clearing salary, so they can make a play for Cole and/or Rendon.

  21. zumiee said, on December 10, 2019 at 4:18 pm

    No doubt Zaidi is as tired of watching the Craw ABs as we are. Kapler gets to deal with that situation. Not fun.

  22. zumiee said, on December 10, 2019 at 4:19 pm

    Another two seasons of Craw and Belt ABs? We can’t take it. Mercy.

  23. alleykat69 said, on December 10, 2019 at 5:27 pm

    Confused me getting Cozart when Z said all along he was looking for a Left hand hitting infielder to compliment Dubon,Solano,Longo..
    Farhan’s poker face at work I assume lol 😂
    The 1st rd slot pick in this Wilson dude is nice work though.Most teams hold on to those precious picks!!

  24. PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on December 10, 2019 at 5:55 pm

    Yeah, re: Cozart, wouldn’t be surprised if he’s gone by end of the week, was just the price to pay to get the young shortstop… .

  25. alleykat69 said, on December 10, 2019 at 7:21 pm

    Kevin Gausman’s stats show he really sucks!
    Can mommy’s lunch box pitching coach, who they haven’t even hired yet turn this reclamation player around?

  26. djloo27 said, on December 10, 2019 at 7:48 pm

    Feels like we’re already 10 GB…

    • PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on December 10, 2019 at 7:49 pm

      Good one…

  27. blade3colorado said, on December 10, 2019 at 8:19 pm

    Adam Jones is going to Japan. All you Flappers who wanted him, will have to stow the saran wrap until he comes back. lqtm.

  28. blade3colorado said, on December 10, 2019 at 8:30 pm

    FanGraphs indicates that Wilson has a 45 Future Value, meaning he’s currently projected to be a major league contributor despite being drafted just six months ago. That gives the Giants 10 prospects with a Future Value of 45 or greater, a 100% increase over the past six months. THAT IS ALL ON Z’s WATCH, NOT SABES.

    • djloo27 said, on December 10, 2019 at 8:34 pm

    • snarkk said, on December 10, 2019 at 8:44 pm

      blade, what’s the future value scale? What does a 45 mean?…

      • blade3colorado said, on December 10, 2019 at 8:57 pm

        What I said above . . . Anything above 40 WILL BE a future MLB contributor. All of ours are 45 or higher.

  29. blade3colorado said, on December 10, 2019 at 8:32 pm

    Gausman signing is brilliant as well, especially if this comes to pass . . .

  30. blade3colorado said, on December 10, 2019 at 8:39 pm

    Our top 30 prospects by rank. Wilson falls in at #10 (he was #4 in the Angels system . . . Umm, so does this mean we have a better farm system versus the Angels? I think so. lol).

    http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2019?list=sf

    • snarkk said, on December 10, 2019 at 8:51 pm

      MLB’s prospect watch, has the top 10 prospects for every position.
      Giants have only two:
      Bart is #2 prospect at C
      Marco Luciano is #10 at SS

      • blade3colorado said, on December 10, 2019 at 8:58 pm

        Yes, Luciano is considered by most rankings to be higher than Ramos at the moment and Luciano is ONLY 17.

  31. Flavor said, on December 10, 2019 at 8:42 pm

    • djloo27 said, on December 10, 2019 at 8:48 pm

      Bum won’t take less than Wheeler.
      He already publicly announced nothing under 5 years will be considered…

      • zumiee said, on December 10, 2019 at 8:55 pm

        That’s alright. We all want him to get a huge payday, wherever he ends up.

  32. zumiee said, on December 10, 2019 at 8:58 pm

    The Kings handled Harden pretty well last. Although I get the feeling the Rockets were not taking the Kings fully seriously. The Rockets looked kind of not fully focused.

  33. chipower9 said, on December 10, 2019 at 9:08 pm

    Report: Cole will sign deal with Yanks worth $324

    https://smart.link/5afa0f94e49a5?component_id=297206&team_id=bay-area-giants&action=open

  34. zumiee said, on December 10, 2019 at 9:19 pm

    1/3 of a billion dollars. Nice work if you can get it.

  35. zumiee said, on December 10, 2019 at 9:20 pm

    The Yanks are out of the Bum sweepstakes.

  36. unca_chuck said, on December 10, 2019 at 9:27 pm

    Cole to the Yankees, 9 / $324 mill. Jeebus, so much for colluding to keep salaries down.

    • blade3colorado said, on December 11, 2019 at 6:17 am

      See my 3:08pm earlier today.

  37. unca_chuck said, on December 10, 2019 at 9:30 pm

    Does this mean Bummie gets 5/$150 mill?

  38. djloo27 said, on December 10, 2019 at 9:49 pm

    Could Bum be a Bum?
    Schmidt did…

    • unca_chuck said, on December 10, 2019 at 10:00 pm

      We all knew Schmidt was gonna fall apart though. Same with Wilson. I think Bummie has a few years left

  39. James said, on December 10, 2019 at 9:50 pm

    Gausman = Smarge.

  40. unca_chuck said, on December 10, 2019 at 9:57 pm

    So, I looked up Cozart’s stats. Maybe he ain’t replacing anyone.

  41. zumiee said, on December 10, 2019 at 10:06 pm

    At a Dodger blog:
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELe4gGfUUAEe3IN?format=jpg&name=medium

  42. zumiee said, on December 10, 2019 at 10:12 pm
  43. snarkk said, on December 10, 2019 at 11:04 pm

    I would never say that Bum would never go to LA.
    But, he’d have to willing to throw away a lot of legendary status the rest of his life with Giants fans.
    If that’s no big deal for an extra $15 million or so, well, then, I’d conclude maybe Bum was not so pleased with getting hosed by the Giants on his LT deal with them…


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