Boring Meetings
Well, that was pretty underwhelming. The Winter Meetings have truly become a waste of time unless you’re a GM looking for a lap dance and a nice steak.
I’m seeing a lot of support for Ron Wotus on KNBR, twitter, etc. Like because he’s the last man standing he’s somehow been elevated to this secret guru or whatever. Marty Lurie loves this guy. Me? Wotus is ok. He’s just ok. There’s a reason nobody wants him to lead their team.
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Wotus is supposedly good at teaching infielders fielding skills. That’s an asset.
never said he wasn’t good at something. He’s probably ok at coaching 3rd base, too. But to act like it would be this major loss if he left, I’m not understanding that. I like the team Z has put together. Mostly a bunch of young analytic guys. That approach works in today’s game. Our core will have to buy in or they can leave.
sure but there are limits. How has Roberts or for that matter A’s analytic approach worked in playoffs? As far as core goes, love to see at least new 1b before season opens.
but it looks like Z and his GM have taken a 77 W team and made it into a 65 W one.
Not what I was looking forward to.
When you go into a rebuild mode, there will probably be at least a year where your team regresses from the previous year. I had/have no expectations for an improved product next year. I think it will be at least two, maybe three years before Z’s design comes to fruition (if it comes to fruition) and the team is competitive.
Z has had success at every level he has been at in MLB, and has continually been promoted to roles higher on the food chain. I am willing to give him and his crew a few years to see what they can do.
And while I am waiting, I will bask in the glow of 3-in-5.
Shouldn’t they know how to field by the time they get to the majors?
I always thought he was really good at positioning the guys.
I can envision belt going all Moe Green on on new biomechanics hitting coach. ” I was hitting game winning HRs in playoffs while you were getting waived out of A ball.”
and if I was the hitting coach I’d be like, “Dawg you hit 5 home runs in your home park last year. Do what I say.”
LMAO…
Willie, what don’t you get about REBUILDING???? Here is the Houston Astros record:
2009 2009 MLB NL Central 5th 74 88 .457 17
2010 2010 MLB NL Central 4th 76 86 .469 15
2011 2011 MLB NL Central 6th 56 106 .346 37½
2012 2012 MLB NL Central 6th 55 107 .340 42
2013 2013 MLB AL West 5th 51 111 .315 45
2014 2014 MLB AL West 4th 70 92 .432 28
When they started winning . . .
2015 2015 MLB AL West 2nd ¤ 86 76 .531
Rebuilding – as Chi stated above and many others here have pointed out – is a process with no straight ascending line (as you think it should be).
This is one team that did it their way. If you think that’s the only blueprint for every successful franchise in baseball, fine. I don’t.
The giants had a 77 W team last year and I was looking forward to watching full season of Dubon J Davis and healthier Dickerson plus another bat and an arm. I’d have kept Pillar and Vogt and likely flipped them along with Smrdz, and tried hard to extend Smith if not bum. Add in Bart and Ramos 2021/22 might have been fun.
by going the route of dumping them all off without any replacements of equal talent level, sure you are going to suck. Giants were power challenged last year–by dumping off 30 bombs, guaranteed to be worse, no?
Just an funny choice not to improve a team with money to spend imo. And watching more dumpster dives while tanking, not fun.
No one said there is only one blueprint for a rebuild, but I think many here have acknowledged that Zaidi seems to be one smart cookie. Again, he has excelled at every level, and I trust him to do it “his way” even if that means that he makes some unpopular moves, and the team regresses for a year or two. It is called having trust in the process and person. I trust Zaidi to do the right things to make the team competitive. He may not do it, but I am willing to see him give it a try, doing it his way.
The Dodgers have won the division 7 years in a row and counting. They’re clearly doing some things right. Maybe not EVERYTHING right, but two recent World Series appearances is nothing to sneeze at, in my opinion. And Houston may have electronically cheated in 2017 to get the championship over the Dodgers.
A lot of us Flappers, me included , are older guys. None us WANTS to wait through a big rebuild. But it’s the right thing for the Giants to do. Zaidi has the right temperament for it, too. He’s going to stay even-keel, and on-course with his vision. In a few years, if the Giants brass are dissatisfied with him, they can let him go.
Absolutely, Zume. I agree. Meanwhile, I need to get back to basking in the glory of 3-in-5.
Not sure if anyone shared this…apologies if this is a duplicate. Good on Bochy…
https://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Former-Padres-Giants-manager-Bochy-to-manage-14903243.php
Wotus is the type of guy George Custer would send ahead to scout Indians at Little Bighorn,and then say it looks good no Indians spotted…
I just watched a Scott Boras interview on CNBC and he made an excellent point – which if implemented by MLB, would in fact, defend Willie’s contention that the team should attempt to “reload” or at least try to get better each and every season.
Specifically, Boras indicated that there is a “structural” problem with MLB (which we are all aware of, but rarely cite in our arguments about the Giants being competitive each and every season), where teams have zero incentive to be competitive year in and year out. He added, that the current luxury tax has done little to improve the league’s competitive balance. Additionally, he indicated that the collective bargaining agreement – which essentially provides peanuts to players in their prime younger years and only grudgingly rewards them during free agency is a large problem as well.
Lastly, he said of the nations four major professional sports leagues, MLB is the only league without a true salary cap. The NHL adopted a hard salary cap for the 2005–06 season. Under the CBA adopted in the summer of 2011, the NFL also adopted a hard salary cap and a salary floor. The NBA’s salary cap is a “soft” cap; teams cannot spend above a certain payroll threshold except in the case of certain “exceptions,” included in the league’s new collective bargaining agreement.
Bottom line? Until MLB changes these structural problems, this is the system we have.
Actually, it sounds to me that Boras makes Willie’s point. The Giants are not a small market team, they already made their adjustment to reset their tax penalty, which means they could reload. What Boras is talking bout sounds to me like it has little to do with analytics over scouting (which is what I thought was the original argument was more or less about), it sounds more like explaining the haves and have nots.
I look at the Stros stats that you listed amd I wonder if y’all would be willing to wait 9 years for a “REBUILDING”? BTW, I’d imagine the Pads, even with all their high 1st round picks would be about the same in their “REBUILDING” process. Also if you recall, during the Stros down years they had a GM that seemed like he was working for the Phils.
Do you truly believe that the the way the Giants won 3 wasn’t being analyzed by the other teams? What changed in that time? The ball changed, the Giants had success using the conga line approach, when the ball became more lively, their line drives were caught as outs. So other teams switched and went for the loft angle. That worked until MLB changed the balls back during the playoffs. BTW, the Nats were more of a scouting team than an analytical one and looking at the WS winners the last 10 years I think Theo Epstein showed that for a large market team, using a strong balance using both is the way to go.
I do not believe the large contracts currently on the books should stop the Giants from competing and I will not wave the white flag in December unless Zaidi can’t prove me wrong about him and his Geek squad.
Didn’t I say that Boras makes Willie’s point????? Read my post John. The issue as Boras states it and this is FOR ALL CLUBS . . . Unlike NFL, where they have a hard and most important, a salary floor – the MLB has neither. Consequently, no one tells a team like the Marlins to spend money, much less richer teams like the Giants. Couple that with collusion and no one can tell me it does not occur, you are going to have the system we have until structural changes are made. To do that, a new collective bargaining agreement is needed.
No, you said “which if implemented by MLB, would in fact, defend Willie’s contention that the team should attempt to “reload” or at least try to get better each and every season.”, what I’m saying and what I think Willie’s point is, as a large market team we could reload right now without a change in the MLB structural issues.
I’m not arguing that teams like the Marlins, As, Rays or Padres could spend more (yes, they can), what I’m saying is that the Giants are in a position that they could do so right now.
Many big market teams take a pass, e.g., Mets.
Actor Danny Aiello dead at 86.
Sad news, he was a superb actor in Do the Right Thing, Moonstruck,Godfather 2 …RIP Danny
Man talk about your Merry Christmas and just jetting around from one awesome vacation to another with babes& alcohol& pools& yachts, champagne wishes & caviar kisses..Scott Boras is that guy!!
Cole 324 mil
Strasburgh 258 mil
Rendon 245 mil
Moustokas 106 mil?
Alittle under a billion dollars in contracts and he still has more players to get signed up Castellanos his too?
Anyway what’s his cut 5%? He likely clears 50 million , that’s the spirit of the holiday season!!💰💸💵💎💶🛩🛳👙🕺💃🏻🥃🍹🍻🍸🥂🍾🍷
All this rebuild proves is that about 75% of the fan base are idiots. I’m in there with ’em, but to cry over Panik leaving, and disavow being a fan because they don’t resign Pillar is stupid. They traded the greatest player in the game FFS.
I’ve been ignoring the Facebook fan group for a while. A lot of those folks jumped on the bandwagon during this last decade, I think.
Yeah,juzt stopped by, Pretty weird and out of touch.
Chuck – I consider you the #1 pro football guy here.
Think a KC-SF Super Bowl is a decent possibility?
Chiefs are finally playing a little D which kind of reminds me of Peyton Manning’s Colts,
the year they won it all…
Niners are apparently pretty imjured. They might end up a wild card team playing on the road dallas or some crap team from the East with 5 fewer wins. That’s insane…
Loo, I’ll give them a chance especially with their receiving core of options Mahomes has to throw too.Their D still gives up to many big chunk plays imo, and their running game is now atrocious.
All roads lead through Baltimore and they have it all, Jackson is this years Mahomes, they have it all going for them, running the ball, passing, defense,special teams.The 49ers and Ravens are the 2 best teams, and a SB revenge win for the 49ers would top off this season! But hey I’m not counting your Chiefs out, anything can happen in the playoffs.Just ask the Saints last year, with the help from a blown PI penalty…
You’re right about the running game. Need that rookie to bust out.
Mecole Hardman looks like a monster…
Watched the Ravens last night, their special teams were crap. Jets got some good kickoff/punt returns and also blocked a punt for a TD.
is this the best commercial from 1980? Cause this is my nominee if we’re voting on that shit
Definitely a different era.
Amazing that you had to watch TV in a mirror back then.
Technology’s really come a long way…
When did everything change?
Zumie, do you think there was one person or event that just changed everything?
I’ll go with this . . .
Hate to say it, Loo, but KC doesn’t have the defense. The road to the Super Bowl goes through Baltimore. KC isn’t getting a bye unless they pass NE, but either way, neither of them have the firepower to take down Lamar Jackson and the Ravens. It’ll hopefully be a rematch of Super Bowl XLVII.
I suspect Z/arris might make some fans crazy in their approach to rebuilding because some moves seem weirdly random, but there’s no question they have a plan. They might not execute that plan in linear fashion: you’re not always going to be able to see the logic and the direction they’re heading in move by move, and it could take a full year or more to get there, so… patience. Harris said this about plucking a reliever from the Jays in Rule 5: “We’re just trying to find talent wherever we can find it. This isn’t the most creative way to find talent, but we got an arm we really like.” I think Z is certainly at least that. Creative. So, next time you don’t like or understand one of the FO’s moves, just think about how creative it might actually be…. ……
this chump is just so completely and FOS
Sumo wrestlers eat about 10,000 calories a day, pass gas, and work out for an hour, then snooze. Sounds a lot like spring Training?…
“Zumie, do you think there was one person or event that just changed everything?”
That’s a great question to ponder. My first thought is that by the ‘80s, the Baby Boomer kids were getting into the power positions of society and could bring values from the ‘60s more into play. Not everything from the ‘60s was good, but there was more emphasis on critical thinking. Questioning things. More freedom to challenge things.
Hard to figure the Kings’ 2-point loss to the Knicks last night. After playing so well in Texas, they looked flat as a pancake at home. The Knicks played harder, and got more of the loose balls.
A team has to show up ready to play every game.