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Sunken Ship

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on January 15, 2020

I still don’t understand this.

Screenshot 2020-01-15 at 5.35.11 AM

Does Z hate Cozart this much or is he in love with Jake Jewell? We’re already paying this dude 12 mil, there isn’t a spot for him on the bench? If his shoulder is recovered, and maybe it isn’t, I don’t understand this. 12 mil for Will Wilson?

Ten bucks says Wilson gets DF’A for Erik Kratz in like a week……


60 Responses

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  1. chipower9 said, on January 15, 2020 at 6:14 am

    Like most of us, I have no fucking idea as to Z’s immediate or long-term plans (other than to build a winner). Some of this shit really has me scratching my head, but I am going to repeat…Z has had success at every level/every location he has been.

    I am going to trust the man and give him a few years. By 2021, 2022 at the latest, the Giants should be relevant and in the post-season hunt, again.

    • Bozo said, on January 15, 2020 at 7:29 am

      It seems to me that Zaidi’s best accomplishments before coming to SF, was to not screw up what was already there for him. Doing a complete rebuild, I doubt they even sniff the playoffs until 2025 at the earliest.

  2. zumiee said, on January 15, 2020 at 6:43 am

    I don’t think as many people will be saying: “But Zaidi never won a championship with the Dodgers.” He was clearly cheated out of a championship by the cheating Astros. Kershaw got lit up in Game 5 at Minute Maid Park. And Morrow got lit up, too.

    • Bozo said, on January 15, 2020 at 7:23 am

      Zum, I bow to your expertise in all things LA but are you also saying the Phils and STL also cheated against Kershaw when they lit him up during the playoffs?

  3. willedav said, on January 15, 2020 at 7:38 am

    Wilson is now one of Giants highly rated prospects and was first round pick Z was high on. Still, he’s long ways away (like Bishop) and has already cost $12 mil to get. I didn’t care for this move earlier and now that Cozart has been DFA’d still don’t get it, unless they really think the guy they added is going to contribute to ML roster right away. Which seems unlikely. For $12 mil they could have got 1 or 2 decent players for 2020 team that desperately needs them.

    Imo it’s impossible to quantify who gained what/when and vs. whom in specific ABs as far as taking away titles from either Houston or Boston. Dodgers Yanks and others can whine all they want and point fingers but there isn’t any way to know. I’m not defending the guilty but all this talk about how the losers got screwed can never be proven. And in Red Sox case their postseason pitching was what dominated all the high scoring teams they beat, including Astros.

    And Bozo is right, Kershaw has got lit up repeatedly in postseason by others, unlike regular season.

    • unca_chuck said, on January 15, 2020 at 8:02 am

      It’s impossible to quantify, but whatever slight advantage there is (and just knowing fastball vs offspeed is coming is a pretty big advantage), it would add up over the course of an entire season. Or even a playoff series.

    • gianthead said, on January 15, 2020 at 11:35 am

      I think the video evidence against the Astros is pretty damning….you hear the crack of the garbage can and voila a hard hit ball.

  4. willedav said, on January 15, 2020 at 7:50 am

    Z has never been in the situation he is in now, where he is THE head of baseball ops; he’s always been part of larger group and an underling to others. Last year he didn’t even have a GM and made all the decisions—some of which worked out, amid some colossal fails. So the blind trust to me has zero basis and track record behind it.

    Really, all GMs and mgrs. in every sport are judged on what have they done lately for whomever they work for. The Red Sox GM, who won a World Series 2018, got shown the door despite whatever expertise got them the title. And like Cubs manager Maddon who wasn’t invited back his team had a winning record that just wasn’t good enough.

  5. unca_chuck said, on January 15, 2020 at 8:04 am

    This is yet again another scandal that could very well be widespread across the league, but Manfred is trying to squelch it as just a couple teams cheating.

    • willedav said, on January 15, 2020 at 8:34 am

      completely agree. Fiers can’t have been only guy in all baseball that was traded from a team who tried to take advantage of tactics using electronics or other means–he just broke the code and said something about it, albeit quite a long time after the fact. Surprised there hasn’t been more focus by local and national media on him specifically, and what brought it all out, what he and others knew in dugout.

  6. wilcojoe said, on January 15, 2020 at 8:41 am

    I do have to say that seeing the reactions of the Astros fans on my twitter feed is quite reminiscent of how I felt as a Giants fan when the BALCO news began to come down on Bonds. The homer, knee jerk response was to say, “wait till we find out that everyone else was on the juice as well”. And as it turned out, we were mostly right.

    Same thing is likely to happen again with this cheating scandal, unless MLB can find a way to squash it. I don’t see that happening though.

    • unca_chuck said, on January 15, 2020 at 8:48 am

      Yah, I mean the Mitchell report implicated a ton of players so it wasn’t ‘a few bad apples’ as Selig portrayed it.

    • gianthead said, on January 15, 2020 at 11:32 am

      Well we know who wasnt cheating by stealing signs and making their offense better…the 2017 Giants, the 2018 Giants and the 2019 Giants!!!

  7. unca_chuck said, on January 15, 2020 at 8:47 am

    Cozart? Meh. As far as I can tell he’s still damaged goods. Fuck, I don;t know. I thought they would cut Crawfish and stick Cozart’s corpse at SS. Or at least spell Longo when he inevitably pulls a hammy.

    It’s like the whole deal around Puig. If you are going to sign some chump like that, why not keep Pillar? There’s still time as neither have signed anywhere, but it sure looks like we are looking at an epically bad season. Like 110 losses if we keep with this idea of not signing anybody worth a plug nickel.

  8. sandog said, on January 15, 2020 at 9:40 am

    It’s all about taking flyers on young players with upside. We paid 12 million to take a chance on Will Wilson.
    I’m down with it.
    We’re gonna be one of the 2-3 worst teams in baseball this year, but we’re gonna find out what our young guys can do and then give Zaidi and company another shot picking from the top of the draft.
    Maybe in 2021 Bart/Ramos/Bishop et al can contribute and turn the battleship a bit.
    This year though needs to be ugly and is going to be ugly.

    • Flavor said, on January 15, 2020 at 10:14 am

      I’m down with paying the 12 mil for will but why not keep cozart for some utility insurance?

      • sandog said, on January 15, 2020 at 10:47 am

        He’s too old.

      • gianthead said, on January 15, 2020 at 11:30 am

        Probably still hurt.

    • chipower9 said, on January 15, 2020 at 10:26 am

      Good post/perspective, SanDog. Good to see ya post here again, my friend. Hope you are well.

      • sandog said, on January 15, 2020 at 11:33 am

        Thanks Chi! Good to see you back on here too.

  9. unca_chuck said, on January 15, 2020 at 10:20 am

    Yeah, I get that, and I’m much more inclined to spending 12 mill for Wilson rather than 40 mill for Puig, or Castellano for that matter, or half a billion for Harper, but, well, fuck. I don’t know. I’ve been advocating for the blowup and getting rid of the bad deals, but it’s gonna get crazy when the team goes head first into the tank and stays there for 2+ years.

    I know we are gonna suck, but this could be 120 losses at this rate. Yeah, the fans are gonna leave in droves, and the screaming and angst will be loud and angry all over the interwebs and everywhere, but this is the only way out. Sigh. At least the Niners are bringing it.

  10. snarkk said, on January 15, 2020 at 10:28 am

    Sabevans put off a real rebuild for years with chewing gum and bandaids. They did that like an alcoholic knowing he’s got to go to rehab, but is in denial. Well, rehab time is here. It isn’t pretty, it takes time, and you might have some DTs doing it…

    • Bozo said, on January 15, 2020 at 12:22 pm

      15 winning seasons out of 22, 8 playoff appearances and 3 championships. That had to be some prime Bazooka bubble gum.

      • snarkk said, on January 15, 2020 at 11:46 pm

        I’m not talking about the success times. They stopped working to stock the system before Bum finished game 7 of 2014. Then a couple of seasons of nothing, and no start of the rebuild. Now, we’re in rebuild, and the natives are restless at ZMan. Talk about shooting the messenger…

  11. chipower9 said, on January 15, 2020 at 10:47 am

    In regards to Clown’s earlier comment “that Zaidi’s best accomplishments before coming to SF, was to not screw up what was already there for him.” and WillieD’s “Z has never been in the situation he is in now, where he is THE head of baseball ops; he’s always been part of larger group and an underling to others.”

    I agree that he has not been the head honcho before now, but his rise has been pretty damned meteorical since his first job in MLB. He started as a saber analyst for the A’s, was promoted in 2013 to Director of Baseball Ops, and in 2014 added Assistant GM to his title. Billy Bean referred to him as “absolutely brilliant.” In November of 2014 he was hired as the Bum’s GM.

    All I am saying is that he appears to be one smart motherfucker, who has quickly progressed throughout the ranks of MLB. I am willing to give the guy several years at the helm to see WTF he can do. That’s all.

    Meanwhile, I stare out the window and wait for spring.

    Speaking of spring, toying with the idea of heading down to the Valley of the Sun for some ST ball this year. A friend has a timeshare and some miles to burn with Southwest, so we may be able to do a quick trip on the cheap. Would be fun to see some of the young-uns play, and get a glimpse of what the Giants may look like in a few years.

    And lastly…ONLY 29 days until pitchers and catchers report (Feb. 13th). First full workout is February 17th.

    Play ball, bitches!

  12. gianthead said, on January 15, 2020 at 11:23 am

    Have you forsaketh Farhan????

  13. gianthead said, on January 15, 2020 at 11:37 am

    I have not seen any video of the Boston cheating during 2018, just think it is hilarious Flodgers got fucked over twice in a row….

    • zumiee said, on January 15, 2020 at 11:58 am

      I kind of wish I could share in the hilarity of it, but I can’t. I really bought into the Astros as this plucky, likable, INNOCENT group of fun-loving young players. WOW, was that wrong. We all got scammed. They were a rats nest of cheaters and liars. NONE of them have yet to admit they really personally did anything wrong. No apologies, really, from any of them. Just a lot of….”uh, some things happened, and uh….yeah, some things.”

  14. zumiee said, on January 15, 2020 at 12:04 pm

    On YouTube people have started posting game video of the beating of the trash can. It didn’t sound like I was expecting. It’s a plastic trash can, so the sound is two quick beats for an off-speed pitch, with it sounding kind of like a drummer doing two quick beats on his bass drum with his foot. The sound is hard to hear on the TV broadcasts, and I could see the sound blending in well with crowd noise unless you’re listening specifically for it.
    And then no beats for a fastball. And it’s all done quickly. Someone was watching on an illegal monitor in the runway just out of the view of the dugout, then they would do a quick signal, just by yelling if they wanted to, then the person at the trash can would either do no beats or two quick beats. They got really good at being quick on the signal to the batter. .

  15. zumiee said, on January 15, 2020 at 12:06 pm

    I don’t see how the Mets don’t fire Beltran. He was one of the ringleaders of it, along with Cora.
    And that GM saying he didn’t know anything about it. He NEVER saw the illegal monitor in the dugout runway? Baloney.

  16. zumiee said, on January 15, 2020 at 12:13 pm

    “are you also saying the Phils and STL also cheated against Kershaw when they lit him up during the playoffs?”

    I see your point, Bozo; but, in game 1 of the ’17 World Series, Kershaw pitched 7 innings of 3-hit ball against the Astros, at Dodger Stadium; and then in Game 5 at Minute Maid Park, he gets lit up like he’s a journeyman nobody.
    We’ll never know how things would have turned out if the Astros hadn’t cheated. The Astros may not even have made it to the World Series without cheating.
    I’m all for enjoying the Dodgers not winning a World Series; but it also saddens me to think of a World Series winner being so tainted. The Astros get to keep their championship after cheating like this all that season. I think a strong case could be made that the commissioner should have forced the Astros to vacate that championship, and there would just be no champion that year, like in ’94.

    • unca_chuck said, on January 15, 2020 at 12:36 pm

      That’s basically negating the entire season for one team’s cheating? If anything, give it to the Dogs. Not that I’d want that but it’s the logical move.

  17. zumiee said, on January 15, 2020 at 12:17 pm

    People keep saying trash can, but it was probably a plastic trash barrel.

  18. Bozo said, on January 15, 2020 at 12:33 pm

    What team has done a complete rebuild and turned it around in two years? It seems to me that most teams that have taken that approach have taken six+ years to get back to winning.
    Just saying these losing years may last longer than y’all think.

  19. unca_chuck said, on January 15, 2020 at 12:46 pm

    Well, we do have a couple guys in Bart and Ramos who could be good in 2021. With Belt and Crawford gone, we could add some power.

    • Bozo said, on January 15, 2020 at 1:23 pm

      True, but if you aren’t building up a winner in anticipation of those two, you’ll have two young studs on a losing team.

    • unca_chuck said, on January 15, 2020 at 2:04 pm

      Well, they aren hedging their bets at this point, and they can be good guys on a bad team until they can dump the pre-fab 4.

      • unca_chuck said, on January 15, 2020 at 3:34 pm

        And then guys like Luciano, Bishop, and Canario are coming. Yeah, it’s all a crapshoot, but they are banking on a lot of these kids being players.

      • Bozo said, on January 15, 2020 at 4:26 pm

        So we’re back to my 2 year turn around question.

      • unca_chuck said, on January 15, 2020 at 7:42 pm

        It all really depends on how fast they get rid of the 4 shmoes.

  20. alleykat69 said, on January 15, 2020 at 1:35 pm

    Yahoo Sports…This morning a Philadelphia news station interviews a trash can about Astros cheating scandal:
    “Here’s a bit of what the Trash can named T.C. said during the interview”
    “I’m just sitting there and I was beat over and over and over, nobody cares about my feelings.It took me two years to get all the dents out!
    It’s the worst job in sports.Have you seen a baseball dugout?They never use me.There’s stuff all over the floor!”

  21. unca_chuck said, on January 15, 2020 at 3:34 pm

    Hey, who has Stix’s mailing address. I was gonna send him some stuff.

  22. Flavor said, on January 15, 2020 at 5:12 pm

    We have plenty of room for young guys this year. If Cozart was healed enough to try to recapture that tasty .933 OPS he broke off just 2 years ago it could help us win some games. Look, I’m all for rebuilding but there are 162 fucking games. We don’t have to try to lose 110 lol

  23. Flavor said, on January 15, 2020 at 5:37 pm


    • sandog said, on January 15, 2020 at 7:11 pm

      That is outstanding! The first time I watched it, I thought he just swung under it and it just settled back on the tee—which I’ve seen happen before—hell, I think I’ve even done it myself.

      Flav—we already have too many old dudes we GOTTA keep around cuz of their contracts.
      Everybody else needs to be young in my book. Along those lines, I hope Garcia is the backup catcher this year. I don’t want to see a Voigt/Kratz/Hundley type dude on this roster.

      This is going to be a good year to find out who the true fans are. I’m gonna rock the hell out of my Giants gear this year. I’m fine with taking this 40 man roster into the season.

      LET’S DO THIS!

      • unca_chuck said, on January 15, 2020 at 7:45 pm

        Hell, I’ll take in few games, if I can get seats ike I got last May. It was like 28 bucks for 20 rows behind home plate.

        When they decided to forego Pillar, the writing was really on the wall that they were gonna go on the cheap and not sign anyone of import.

        This is shaping up to be a very bad penny year.

      • sandog said, on January 15, 2020 at 8:07 pm

        I honestly don’t think its about saving money. It’s about playing the long game and figuring out what we have and placing ourselves in a good position to continue restocking the farm system. If it were about money, they wouldn’t have done something like the Cozart deal.
        If we can hang in there for a couple of years, I think we can have a beautiful marriage of some good prospects coming up AND a huge war chest of money as these killer long term deals come to an end.

        Trust The Process Chuck!

      • djloo27 said, on January 15, 2020 at 8:40 pm

        You’re fine with this???


      • sandog said, on January 15, 2020 at 9:40 pm

        Yep. I’ve come full circle. It’s time to rebuild. What do you wanna do, sign Castellanos and lose 95 games instead of 100?
        I honestly think it will only be one brutal year and things will look up a bit in 2021.

  24. willedav said, on January 15, 2020 at 8:32 pm

    Z has to have dumped Belt by now. Any combo of Shaw Garcia Slater and a Wilmer Flores (or a Thames) would have been OK. Dubon covers one middle IF spot, Luciano another for Craw. Bart replaces Posey.
    Longo will be harder because he actually does have some power–no 3b on farm capable of hitting 20 bombs, so live with him until that player comes along.
    I’m OK with kid OF but you need one solid vet with some pop and role model–in other words Pillar–for few months then flip him. If you know you are power starved and letting 21 bombs walk, then why go with Rickard instead of adding a decent corner OF with some pop?
    but let’s be real–the guys I’m talking about here (save Dubon), plus Ramos are ALL Sabes guys so he wasn’t asleep on the job he drafted guys to replace 3 of his underperforming core.
    Plus he got all the pitching—Webb Beede S. Anderson plus Moronta and of course Bum and Smith, who Z let go for nothing and hasn’t replaced.

    And that’s my problem with what he’s doing—he is guaranteeing suckitude that did NOT have to happen. On a power starved team he hasn’t added to it, he’s depleted it. And he has yet to move any of the core guys that bug everyone so much. don’t give me ownership is to blame here–they are saving $$ like crazy and could easily afford to kick back $$ to cover a deal and get better prospects.

    You know minor league ball is hella closer to where I am, and cheaper, and the food and drink is good too and cheaper as well.. If this is all SF is gonna do…

  25. willedav said, on January 15, 2020 at 8:44 pm

    the guys Z has added such as Yaz Dick Davis and Dubon are fine. But I’ve seen countless inexpensive guys go by on MLBTR signed by other teams that could have made this team better. And imo that’s a slap in the face to fans and season ticket holders, to tell them by what little you are doing that you don’t care to compete and while sending all the saran wrap to the bean counters to figure out what to do with all the money they’ve saved.

  26. blade3colorado said, on January 15, 2020 at 9:28 pm

    When the San Francisco Giants saw McCutchen and Pence’s contracts come off of their books in 2018-19, Farhan Zaidi made an unpopular decision at the time to not reallocate those resources to other free agents. In fact, the team’s signing of left-handed pitcher Derek Holland for $7 million represented their biggest free-agent expenditure. The rest of the offseason additions were brought in on cheap major league contracts, minor league deals, and under-the-radar trades. That decision has given the Giants some much-needed flexibility heading into the 2019-20 offseason, and the trades of Melancon, Pomeranz, and Dyson created even more financial freedom.

    The Melancon trade turned out to be one of the biggest surprises of the trade deadline for one big reason: The Braves ate all of the remaining $18 million on his contract. That trade removed $15.5 million in terms of average annual value (AAV) from the Giants books for 2020. In addition, the Dyson trade saved the Giants at least $6 million. The contracts for Bumgarner and Smith saved another $12 million and $4.25 million, respectively. In addition, they gained draft picks for the aforementioned moves. Lastly, the Giants designated Joe Panik for assignment, which saved the team about $4 million in AAV for next season if they had tendered him a contract. Fortunately, they didn’t.

    According to Spotrac, they will have somewhere in the neighborhood of $75 to $90 million in payroll space, relative to the CBT threshold.

    Yes, Mr. Z could have “reloaded” a la Sabes/Evans, but instead Mr. Z has doubled down to fix the financial situation that he inherited. In other words, he recognizes that until the dead weight of Longo, Belt, Posey and Crawford is removed, the Giants will not compete with the Padres, Snakes, and Rockies of the world, much less the Dodgers. In my opinion, he has done well to improve the San Francisco Giants financial flexibility. Concurrent with the aforementioned, he is also fixing our farm system.

    I have zero problem with what’s going on. Looking forward to next season with all of the young kids and unknowns that will inevitably occupy our roster; and especially, looking forward to the following season, when I think we see daylight and we’re competing again for a playoff spot.

    • sandog said, on January 15, 2020 at 9:48 pm

      Blade and I on the same page regarding the direction of the Giants!
      (Its been a while)

      C’mon Willie—we’re gonna get back out there in the arcade this summer watching Dick, Duggar, and Davis roam the outfield and we’re gonna have a fucken blast!

  27. mrsprtdude said, on January 15, 2020 at 10:45 pm

    Not sure who will see my post but the video showing the bangs is just shit. Imagine how we would be howling if we lost a 7 game series to the Rangers and later the Tigers and found out after they were cheating like that!!! As a lifelong sports fan I have to believe the games are on the up & up. As a baseball fan, and Giants fan I never never thought I’d feel sorry for Dodger fans but I do.

    • zumiee said, on January 16, 2020 at 3:38 am

      Well said, Dude.

    • djloo27 said, on January 16, 2020 at 5:21 am


  28. snarkk said, on January 15, 2020 at 11:48 pm

    Now that Giants are in full rebuild, the natives are restless at ZMan. Talk about shooting the messenger…

  29. djloo27 said, on January 16, 2020 at 5:25 am

    Z’s do nothing approach might be the best way to go in the long run, but anybody can do nothing so why should anybody be impressed by it? How could there not be a few decent under 25 prospects on the current 40 man roster?

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