Not Competitive
Exactly:
We got rid of our most exciting player (Pillar) but he didn’t have any upside and I was fine with them not retaining him.
The guys we’ve added are starting to make Z look like a Dodger mole.
The baseball season is LOOOOONG. If we can’t find a reason, not a single reason, to be hopeful in freaking February we are absolutely doomed.
How many baseball seasons do you think you have left in your lifetime? Are you cool with just tossing one out before the season even starts for literally no reason?
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Zaidi has been on the job for a whole year and has not taken the Giants to the World Series yet!!
He’s crap. He needed to get going and sign a dude for a ton of money that can hit 25 HRs so the Giants can win 72 games instead of 69 this season…
I was resigned to the fact that this would be a throwaway season once Bum signed with AZ. I wanted to see an Ozuna or Castellanos on board to help see maybe a vision of a building team for 2021 but it is complete Farhan teardown mold and I will pay little attention this year beyond daily fantasy I think…
It will be fun to watch guys like Dubon Yaz Davis and hopefully Dickerson grow and mature. Beyond that OF looks mostly powerless. Moving parts on IF would be lot more intriguing if Belt and Crawford weren’t in the way.
Pitching, yikes. either one or both of Smrdz/Cueto won’t be around by August. Pen guys are either very old or very young with little experience.
As for the idea new coaches with new ideas could help Giants hitters, it’s hard to have much faith in that approach since the coaches themselves are so inexperienced with working at this level. They are all new at this and fails seem inevitable.
In the great movie The Harder They Come, Jimmy Cliff is sitting down partying with his new mates as they sample a chalice pipe. He takes a very small hit and passes it on and the next guy says, “New at dis mon?”
And after he hits it, he then explodes a massive exhale of smoke that clouds up the entire screen.
This Giants team will remind me of “Fear Strikes Out” The Jim Piersall story starring Anthony Perkins&Karl Malden.Instead of poor old Jimmy climbing a fence behind home plate in a crazy breakdown, it will be Giants fans doing it..
2004-2008 was pretty rough.
I don’t think it will be that bad…
mm this season seems more like mid-80s when my enthusiasm was pretty low. After couple OK years 75-80 wins under Frank Robinson things quickly fell apart, he got fired and then 1984 and 85 they were really bad before Craig came in.
This was “you gotta like these kids” era, robby Thompson jose uribe yada yada and by 89 they were in Series.
Dunno how Baer is gonna be able to market what they have now.
Robby Thompson debut game was April 8 of 86, opening day in Astrodome vs. Nolan Ryan. Clark homered off him in first, Krukow went 6 for the win Mark Davis 3 no hit innings for the save Giants win 8-3.
Coming off 62-100 season (and 66-96 year before that) they went 83-79 and by 87 they were winning 90 games and the division under Craig and Al Rosen.
Just very hard to believe that kind of turnaround can happen with Kapler Harris and Z.
As many have shared today, previous Giants teams have gone through very bad periods of ineptitude. I am still of the mindset to be patient and see how things progress over the next couple of years. I have little to no expectations for this year. These things happen when teams enter a rebuild stage.
I will follow the team this year to see how the kids perform, and to keep tabs on Z and crews plan to bring the team back to relevancy.
over at Chron online there are pix from 2/5/76 taken in SF day it snowed. One shows a guy who got out his skis early that morning and went downhill a few blocks before ending at 24th Ave. and Castro. Another shows kids making snowwoman in Golden Gate park.
remember walking to San Jose St from 4th St. apt. with snow on ground, pretty funny.
I hope Zaidi ends up proving me wrong and he isn’t just another Ned Colletti. Zaidi had Beane with the As and with the Dodgers he was under Friedman and Byrnes, not to mention LAs team president, Stan Kasten. All of those guys are some pretty heavy hitters, now he has Baer and Harris.
I don’t know of a team that has done a complete tear down and rebuild in a couple of years. Seems to me it takes most teams 5-10 years to do that. That would mean the Giants could go through quite a few years where not losing 100 games would be an accomplishment.
Again, I hope Zaidi proves me wrong. but I’m not a fan of his until he does something that not only helps the Giants but also hurts the Dodgers. The guessing game he pulled last year and seems to be pulling this year ain’t cutting it for me.
Here is a reminder of last year and yeah, I remember Kratz!
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/giants/where-departed-2019-giants-ended-mlb-free-agency-offseason
Good stuff from Pav, thanks Clown. I count 27 players, just over an entire roster. “The Giants don’t plan to use 64 players again this year,” I wouldn’t be so sure about that. This might sum it up: “Michael Reed: No idea, to be honest.”
I count 27 useless ball players that Z brought in are had already.You think bringing in 64 guys, you could hit on 1 are 2 that might even stick around AAA ..
What Z hasn’t done is improve Giants chances erasing the run differential deficit from last season. Other than Wilmer Flores, he hasn’t added any power to a power starved team. Even if J Davis hits 20 bombs, that only gets them back to even with last season. The idea his new age coaching staff injects more power into the old vets is laughable. Slater Duggar Rickard? These guys combined hit 10 HRs last year in about 500 ABs. This is plan B if Yaz and Dick struggle?
Neither has he addressed losing his closer, SP and other pen parts. He’s bringing in 2 guys with ERAs over 5.00 and keeping around others at bottom of rotation who had similar seasons–DRod Beede Suarez Menez Shaun Anderson and the innings limited Webb.
This is the best plan he has with $50 mil in reserve? Sure giants have some high salary guys but the other 20 plus aren’t making jack. His entire OF won’t cost $10 mil in 5-6 players. So it’s not the money holding the team to 65 Ws…
You all know Flores is the first Giant to get a multi year deal(2 years 6mil with an option) under Z.
And why would he even come here? Didn’t he keep up on the news that they’re going to SUCK the whole time thru his contract?
Remember last year when the Giants brought in 30 Catchers to find 1 backup? Is that what they’re doing at 2B this year? When you really need the backup SS are 3B?
You can’t have it both ways, Flav. There’s no need to be semi-competitive. Or we end up just like last year. A false sense of hope followed by the inevitable crash.
We get Betts (or Castellano, or Harper) to do what? Get us to 75 wins? Spend another $35-$40 mill to get to 80 wins? 85? Then where are we? Another season left wanting, but not addressing the bad deals and stagnant contracts and another year out from the rebuild.
Look at the Pads for a team that hasn’t said ‘we need to dump players and start over.’ They have retooled so many times yet they never get anywhere.
Is winning the pre-season important? Is false hope to start a season better than knowing we are going to suck?
No and no.
Beyond that, I’m older than you and have fewer seasons left!
I didn’t want Betts or any high priced FA. I want young guys not old guys. Z could do that and it would still be a true rebuild. I have no idea what he’s doing signing all these old guys
“until he does something that not only helps the Giants but also hurts the Dodgers.”
Ah, it can’t just help the Giants, it has to ALSO hurt the Dodgers.
I must ponder this. 2+2 cannot just equal 4; it must also not equal 5. There’s something heavily metaphysical going on there….
Dostoevsky?
You love the guy, I get it. I don’t trust him yet, so what? I wasn’t all in on Sabean until he proved me wrong on the Matt Williams trade. And yes, I won’t trust this guy until he does something that actually helps the Giants and in the process hurts the Dodgers.
Zaidi will probably promote prospects aggressively so there’s that.
Farhan needs bodies. Cheap bodies at this point. This is the crux of the biscuit.
Speaking of metaphysical, how did Zumie copy Bozo’s 12:24 quote at 12:04?
It was Bozo’s 9:58 AM that he copied, Chuck.
What would you do without me?
hah! Live a sadder, emptier life, my friend.
I for one hope he doesn’t.
Not the real good ones anyway.
There isn’t an inexhaustible supply of “young guys” in MLB to sign and plug into our Giants lineup. In other words, they are prospects and clubs just don’t release them for other clubs to pick up. If they are released, there is a REASON why . . . numero uno reason – THEY SUCK. It’s also why our minor league system sucks and we don’t promote our young guys. Again, THEY SUCK.
Consequently, we sign old farts that have been waived or are free agents. Why? BECAUSE THEY HAVE A HISTORY OF PLAYING IN THE MLB.
And if a young player can prove themselves, then an old guy with a cheap contract gets jettisoned. I expect there to be a lot of jettisoning this season, possibly some of the Duggar, Shaw, etc. gang. It’s decision time on those guys.
Zaidi has done things to help the Giants already, but they’re not immediately visible. He’s really trying to build a first-rate farm system, which the Giants have rarely had in its history. It’s so alien to us, we’re not even sure what it looks like. We see the Cards contending for the playoffs almost yearly, and we marvel at that. Zaidi wants to build that kind of farm system, which is producing solid MLB talent on a regular basis.
I could mention the solid talent coming from the Dodgers and A’s systems on a regular basis, but that gets a negative reaction from some on the Flap.
Well, I guess I did mention it. 🙂
Fair enough, Zum. I hope he does what you keep saying he plans to do.
Yeah it’s a sore point how well the Bums and A’s continue to find excellent talent and the Giants do not. I am alittle excited about how they have finally started to turnaround they’re International Talent Pool, Luciano,Caniro,Ramos,Torebia(sp) etc..
The international players are the future of this game imo, so load up and sign as many top prospects as you can. Maybe the Giants can find and develop a Acuna jr, Soto, Lindor and others..
crock of shit spin job. Disrespectful to the fans to lie to them like this
https://www.knbr.com/2020/02/06/farhan-zaidi-just-before-giants-camp-this-is-where-we-wanted-to-be/
“I’m signing old cheap players for fodder in the hopes that the young cheap players come through.”
it’s just utter nonsense to say he likes where they are right now.
He does,but not for the reasons he’s saying.
I’ll turn on Zaidi if he and Harris don’t draft well. That’ll take a couple of years to know, though.
His drafts in LA were excellent. Maybe he just got lucky, or maybe he knows some things. We’ll know eventually.
lol, seriously what the actual fuck is going on at headquarters?
He gets Dusty Baker’s old office.
Q: Why should we watch the Giants this year?
A: Because they’re on TV…
And is Dusty underwear 🩲 leftovers..
interesting article about Wiggins
https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/nba-insider-tom-haberstroh/warriors-trade-andrew-wiggins-makes-little-sense
What if Zaidi builds a system that starts producing talent like LA, but the team doesn’t have the Collective Soul to win? How will he identify and bring Joe Montana greatness? Intuition is random.
Zaidi has smarts and an appreciation of numbers, and he’s produced results. The management above him or below doesn’t mean shit. The likelihood he brings another WS trophy before Antarctica melts or any of us croaks is slightly greater because he is smart and the player budget is better than average. He may be unlucky.
I like your rational, James. Good to see you here, again.
the Z results in the past were when he was part of a winning culture already there and he was underling. Beane hired him, Beane called the shots. Friedman and LA, same thing. So far looks like Z is firing shots in the dark.
And as Flav noted 5:14 he is in full used car salesman mode.. Hey 2020 it’s his baby see how it runs.
That’s not a fair appraisal of Z. You give him no credit for LA’s drafts while he was there as GM. How is that fair?
And you give him no credit for finding Muncy.
Culture has nothing to do with it. They’re all using the same analytics and methods to make decisions. Maybe Zaidi isn’t as good at it as Beane or Friedman, although I doubt that.
Cueto should be fun to watch this year until he gets traded.
bottom line Dodgers have been successful for a long time, before and after Z. Give him as much credit as you want for that but he was one part of a larger group. They have drafted and developed well and made good trades and acquisitions (Maeda Ryu Turner Muncy Taylor K. Hernandez Rich Hill etc.) that have helped them build a consistent winner.
Now he is THE head of the group. Draft and development, we’ll see in couple years as best prospects are left over from previous regime. Good moves last year to get team to 77 Ws. He hasn’t built off that and instead hasn’t addressed glaring needs in rotation, pen, power nor done anything to mitigate ongoing issues of 1b and SS.
Hard to see how run differential of minus 100 improves especially since others in division are gonna be better.
SF was the worst team in MLB for 2 1/2 seasons after the 2016 Break. ZMan was handed a steaming pile disaster upon his first day. I’ll give him at least 2 1/2 seasons to get back to respectability. Shanny took Niners from outhouse to Penthouse in 3 seasons because in the NFL he could turn over the whole roster. SF has half the starters Basically untraceable with bad contracts…
As I alluded to yesterday, Zaidi will have a much more difficult time acquiring “young guys” because MLB teams are aware of what he did last season, i.e., he was going over their roster and player releases with a fine tooth comb. He still does that. However this season, they are going to look at their young guys once, twice, perhaps, three or four times before releasing them. Ergo, Z has no choice but to add “past their milk date” old guys. Concurrent with the aforementioned, just about all teams have Saber metric expertise on their staffs. No one is standing still. The old school “Sabevans” regimes are kaput in the MLB.
We have the burden of Belt, Crawford, Posey, and Longo (not to mention our questionable older pitchers, Smarg and Cueto). Ownership obviously wont let him release those guys, and they want to be unequivocally certain that they are washed up (they are) before they eat those contracts. For people who compare the Niners 3 year turn around to the Giants, that’s complete bullshit (read snarkk’s post again). Basically, half of our team is unmovable – which means we suck for the foreseeable future.
“Untraceable” . . . hahaha . . . I actually like that better then what I think you meant. Yes, these guys have all been in the U.S. Marshals “Witness Protection Program” for going on 4-5 years.
Witness Protection Progam…LULZ…
So true Blade!
Snarkk’s “Untraceable” was spot on!
Then they’re was the “Untouchables” a fantastic tv series with Robert Stack as Elliott Ness. Those government agents were just that untouchable against the mob.
Unfortunately with the Giants, they have so many players that are untouchable to other teams needs it will just add on to the misery of a long season ahead…
Good analysis, IMO, snarkk and Blade. I am with you on the 2 1/2 or 3 seasons, snarkk.
The Loo-fecta is in play!
Yeah my Loo trifecta still has life!
If the team is gonna stink, you might as well have some fun and weird entertainment value with Puig…
Regardless of what you think of Puig as person, the dude can still mash, and would be a definite upgrade to our current OF.
I say get ‘er done. And as Kat alludes if nothing else, sign the guy for the pure entertainment value.
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