A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Shop *Tawk* with Daniel

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on March 10, 2020

Our good friend Daniel has rolled out his Giants article in his Playing Pepper series. You can find it here:

Playing Pepper 2020: San Francisco Giants

The 3 of us seem to be mostly in line with what to expect this season. Not surprising. It isn’t too hard to look into this year’s dim outcome.

Props to @C70 for his dedication to winter content. He does one of these for EVERY team. A lot of work goes into the outcome. Go check out his site and I’ll see if he has the time to check in with some of the usual banter.


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  1. Cardinal70 said, on March 10, 2020 at 6:19 am

    Hey, guys! Always love dropping by this neck of the woods. If you’ve got any questions about pepper (the series, not the spice) or the Cards, I’ll see if I can answer them!

  2. alleykat69 said, on March 10, 2020 at 7:31 am

    Hi Daniel,
    I have a question about Yario Munoz the 3B prospect/utility guy last year who looked pretty solid. So what’s the deal with him going AWOL and eventually the Cards just released him?
    Was he too much of a head case?I know he had some kind of injury he was fighting thru, but couldn’t the Cards just have put him on IR and optioned him out to the minors first,then just get rid of a talented player?

    • Cardinal70 said, on March 10, 2020 at 7:41 am

      The Munoz thing was really weird. Apparently he was grousing even last year about playing time, which is probably not surprising given that Tommy Edman came along and took some of the opportunities he might have had otherwise. He got hurt this spring, but instead of doing what 99.9% of other players would do, he looked around, thought about Edman and new sign Brad Miller, plus Edmundo Sosa coming up, and got out of dodge.

      When he didn’t show up for an MRI a few days after his injury, the Cards tried to get in touch with him but couldn’t. John Mozeliak said they thought about putting him on the restricted list, but it was obvious their relationship was broken beyond repair and Munoz had no interest in working things out, so they released him. I still don’t think the FO has been able to get in touch with him, with the only contact being with his agent.

      There was a decent chance he’d been on the Opening Day roster (though there was also a line of thought that he might benefit from regular play in Memphis) and for him to just up and disappear like that was disappointing and would seem to jeopardize any chances he had of playing MLB ball again.

  3. willedav said, on March 10, 2020 at 7:46 am

    Daniel, thanks for allowing Craig (and others) chance to weigh in on Giants.
    For Cards, I’d like to know your thoughts on 2020, and congrats for winning tough Central last year.
    So what has to happen for Cards to repeat? Are you OK with offseason?
    Replacements in system for Carpenter and Molina?
    What does OF look like without Ozuna?
    More concerned with starters or pen off excellent season last year?

    • Cardinal70 said, on March 10, 2020 at 8:13 am

      I’m not saying it’ll be easy to repeat, but the fact that the Brewers and Cubs didn’t really do anything to improve their teams doesn’t hurt. Like most of the fan base, I spent the winter pining for Nolan Arenado, but even without him I think the club is OK. The offense has to be better than it was last year and the pitching continues to look like the team’s calling card. I think they could have done something to be in the World Series conversation, but they said it’d be a quiet winter and it was.

      You talk like Yadier Molina will ever not be playing! Molina’s contract is up at the end of this season and he’s said he won’t play for anyone else. That said, he’s been wanting a two-year extension and I imagine the Cards will give it to him. Andrew Knizner is one of the top prospects in the organization, but he’s basically ready now. If Molina’s going to be around for two more years, they may need to do with him what they did with Carson Kelly and pin their hopes on fast-rising Ivan Herrera.

      As for Carpenter, I continue to think he’ll have some sort of bounce back this year, but the fact that they went and extended him when they didn’t have to hurts. They could have picked up his option at the end of last year but instead he’s under contract for this and next (with an option for ’22) since he signed a new deal last spring. If he falters, Tommy Edman will get a bulk of the playing time at third. Nolan Gorman is (depending on your ranking system) a Top 100 prospect in baseball but he’ll be at AA this year and probably can’t be expected to man the hot corner regularly until the latter half of 2021 at best.

      The Cardinals “lost” Marcell Ozuna in free agency (honestly, they just wanted the draft pick and never engaged after he rejected the qualifying offer) and sent Adolis Garcia to Texas for cash and Randy Arozarena and Jose Martinez to Tampa Bay for Matthew Liberatore. Even with that, they still have too many outfielders! Dexter Fowler is probably going to play, because he’s got the contract, but it feels to me he’s better as a fourth outfielder. Harrison Bader has the glove but we’ll see if the off-season adjustments he made help his bat out any.

      He’ll need them to do so because there are three young guys that are at the door. Tyler O’Neill right now looks to be the favorite to take over left field, but he’s got the ability to play center as well. His power is huge and he seems to be more disciplined the more he plays. Lane Thomas looked very good last year in limited play and also can play all three outfield spots. But all eyes are on Dylan Carlson, who is a Top 20 prospect in baseball, the Texas League MVP from last season, and is hitting over .400 in the spring. He may go to Memphis while the team gets more of a look at Thomas and O’Neill, but he’ll be up soon. Ozuna never was much more than league average for the Cards (his OPS+ was 106 and 107 in the two years in Cardinal red) and it won’t be hard to replace his offense (and the less said about his defense the better).

      I like both sections of the pitching staff, but I’d guess there’s more concern with the starters. Miles Mikolas is out indefinitely with forearm soreness. Right now, it doesn’t look more serious than that but you never really know. Can Adam Wainwright repeat the crafty veteran year he had last year? Dakota Hudson looks to have adjusted and is walking fewer this spring, but there’s still concerns there. But if Carlos Martinez is Carlos Martinez (and he’s looked like it), I think the rotation will be fine. They have 3-4 guys that will either be in the bullpen or Memphis that will be able to buttress any weak spots.

  4. zumiee said, on March 10, 2020 at 8:26 am

    “alleykat69 said, on March 9, 2020 at 7:49 pm (Edit)
    Zumie I would say the 1997 Chicago Whitesox was one of those teams.They were right in the hunt at the deadline when Sabean pulled off one of his best moves grabbing 3 pitchers Danny Darwin,Wilson Alvarez&Roberto Hernandez!
    It was a salary dump situation mostly, I think the Giants gave up a SS named Caruso? and pitcher Alan Foulke I believe who ended up being a decent pitcher for awhile.Still the GM Jerry Reisdorf (sp) was raked over the coals on that trade that helped the Giants win the pennant that year..

    Flavor said, on March 9, 2020 at 8:00 pm (Edit)
    excellent pull”

    I think the White Sox were about 5 or 6 games out of a playoff spot at the time. Maybe a slight difference, but enough difference, in my opinion. Plus, the move didn’t seem to help the White Sox much. Maybe they should have held on to those guys that particular season.

    • Macdog said, on March 10, 2020 at 8:48 am

      From Wiki:

      The White Flag Trade was a trade made in 1997. On July 31, 1997, the Chicago White Sox traded three major players to the San Francisco Giants for six minor leaguers. At the time, the trade was maligned by the vast majority of White Sox fans as Jerry Reinsdorf giving up on the team, as they were only 3.5 games behind the Cleveland Indians for the American League Central Division lead. In 2000, however, the White Sox won the Central Division title, receiving large contributions from two of the players received in this trade.

      The two players making large contributions in 2000 were Keith Foulke (34 saves,2.97 ERA) and I guess Bob Howry (7 saves, 3.17 ERA).

      • Flavor said, on March 10, 2020 at 8:53 am

        to me, what the White Sox did was terrible. They had one team to catch, not 3-4. And it was for the division, not some dumb one game crap shoot.

      • Macdog said, on March 10, 2020 at 9:01 am

        Yeah Flav, Indians won at 86-75, that division was definitely there to be taken in ’97.

    • Flavor said, on March 10, 2020 at 8:51 am

      games behind don’t matter as much when you’ve got 3-4 teams to leapfrog. I honestly don’t remember how many they had to leapfrog that particular day but for most of the Summer they had 5-6-7 teams in front of them and that was just for the WC spot. A freaking one game crap shoot.
      The Giants should have traded Bumgarner last Summer. Zaidi didn’t do it because of stupid pressure from the tired vets–vets who didn’t even fuel the July run.

  5. chipower9 said, on March 10, 2020 at 8:54 am

    Hey Daniel – good to see you here, again. As always, with my growing-up in that part of the country and being a Cards fan as a kid, I will be pulling for them in the Central.

    What would you list as the one biggest key for the Cards to repeat this year (outside of the team staying healthy)?

    • Cardinal70 said, on March 10, 2020 at 9:20 am

      The offense has to improve. The Cards won 91 games and made it to the NLCS based on the outstanding pitching, defense, and baserunning. Some of that is going to take a bit of a step back. Jack Flaherty had a 0.91 ERA from his start in San Francisco (I imagine y’all remember that one, where he took a no-hitter into the seventh and lost) through the end of the year. That isn’t going to happen again. I think the staff will be fine, but if the offense doesn’t step up, their small steps back could be the difference between October or golf.

  6. Winder said, on March 10, 2020 at 9:01 am

    i think we will be lucky to win 77 games this year. I guess the trading deadline might be beneficial for us this year but not holding my breath. However I do believe we will see lots of call ups before Sept. I am thinking Z just might have implemented his two year plan and is just stuck with a situation not his own making. It will be tough for the fan base but then the Giants have a long history of ups and downs.

  7. alleykat69 said, on March 10, 2020 at 9:13 am

    Another blunder by the Giants in the 2014 baseball draft when they took Tyler Beede.
    Besides passing on their 3B of the future Matt Chapman GG /power hitter, they passed on Cardinals soon to be Ace pitcher Jack Flearty (sp) who has all the stuff that Beede lacks..

  8. unca_chuck said, on March 10, 2020 at 10:33 am

    The baseball draft is a monumental crapshoot. That’s why they have 40 rounds.

    There are very few sure things. And Buster was one of them. He fell to us at 5 because we met his contract demand of a $6 mill signing bonus. iirc. Like Timmy falling to us because of his weird mechanics. Seattle is still pissed about that.

  9. dirtnrocksnomo said, on March 10, 2020 at 10:41 am

    Interesting article at the A explaining that Brandon Belt would have had seven extra homers if the new dimensions were in place last season.

    • willedav said, on March 10, 2020 at 10:53 am

      Seemed to me hit balls to deep CF that were caught. His fav pitch to swing at and try to drive is in middle of plate but below knees. He said himself he got under too many balls last season and is trying to hit more line drives.
      we’ll see.
      Don’t think the new fences are gonna help pitching staff much though. those ones Pillar snagged at fence are long gone 2020.

  10. unca_chuck said, on March 10, 2020 at 10:45 am

    Have they finished the construction?

  11. willedav said, on March 10, 2020 at 11:07 am

    Giants continue to hammer ball yesterday, another bomb for Green 3b for Ruf. Unfortunately pen guys got hammered by Tribe as well in 11-7 L. Blevins gave up 3 hits walk and 2 runs in one third of inning. ERA is 22 something.

    Dubon and BHam played CF. Here’s Kap on Hamilton: “…it’s more about the track record than anything else. …we’ll lean heavily on what Billy’s done in his career and evaluate what he’s doing in camp and his process more than anything else. Billy’s six years of experience will show us much more than 3 weeks of ST.”
    Could fix be in here?

  12. Flavor said, on March 10, 2020 at 11:15 am

    this is crazy, this dude would have been happy with a 2nd 10 day contract.

  13. Flavor said, on March 10, 2020 at 11:19 am

    woulda hit Sanders, easily

    • unca_chuck said, on March 10, 2020 at 11:51 am

      I think that was the only time we’ve played the Rams in the playoffs.

    • alleykat69 said, on March 10, 2020 at 11:53 am

      Always puts a smile on my face watching the coolest QB of alltime perform perfection against defenses like Joe Montana could!!!
      4 SB’s wins under him and 4 SB epic parties I either attended are put on myself!🍺🍕🎉🍻🍔🌭🍷🍾🥃🥂🏈🏈🏈🏈

    • willedav said, on March 10, 2020 at 12:31 pm

      ah you’re killing me. There is ONE Joe Montana, ever. Everyone else pales by comparison, including Brady who at this stage of his career maybe doesn’t hit Sanders at that distance in stride either.
      Is it fair to compare every SF Giants CF who followed Mays to the HOF himself?

  14. Flavor said, on March 10, 2020 at 12:28 pm

    fucking absurd. He should play with the main club until they break for SF

    • alleykat69 said, on March 10, 2020 at 1:21 pm

      Guess they want to give Bart more chances to break his hand again in far less inferior pitchers in AAA…

    • willedav said, on March 10, 2020 at 1:30 pm

      mm they do have to figure out posey’s back up in 2 weeks. Bart will be here soon enough let him get work in every day with minors guys. No harm done.

  15. chipower9 said, on March 10, 2020 at 1:06 pm

    Unca – in relation to your question about the new bullpens and moved fences being finished, it sounds like no, but that they will be for opening day.

    This is the most current I could find…


  16. alleykat69 said, on March 10, 2020 at 1:25 pm

    Looks more like a homeless camp than a bullpen project. What did they do suspend the project due to the corona virus epidemic??

    • dirtnrocksnomo said, on March 10, 2020 at 1:27 pm

      Maybe the workmen sapped too many Coronas

  17. alleykat69 said, on March 10, 2020 at 2:54 pm

    Not much pedigree between the 2 Catchers to choose from between Brantly&Heienman.Both bat LH though and Heineken is a Switch hitter as well and does do magic tricks.Ill pick him only to see if he can help some losses disappear..
    Not going to get an established Vogt out of these 2 though.Wonder if it’s to late for Z to bring another catcher end as well..

  18. zumiee said, on March 10, 2020 at 2:55 pm

    As Willie said, the Giants need to nail down who the back-up catcher to start the season will be. Bart can be brought up later in the season without starting his free agent clock. This is the way just about every GM, if not all, would have played the situation. Nothing unusual about it.

  19. Winder said, on March 10, 2020 at 3:08 pm

    mlb.com has our AAA farm system ranked 10th. That is pretty good considering the last few years. Another dry year or two just might not be so bad.

  20. djloo27 said, on March 10, 2020 at 3:58 pm

    I wouldn’t stress too much over the backup catcher.
    They’ll probably just grab some 40 year old ball blocking, pitch framing, out of work fatso off the junk pile…

    • djloo27 said, on March 10, 2020 at 4:01 pm

      And he’ll probably out-homer Posey in 1/3 of the ABs…

  21. Flavor said, on March 10, 2020 at 4:22 pm

    Look, if Posey goes down they’re bringing Bart up. I don’t give a shit when it happens. Game 1? He’ll be up for Game 2. Book it.

  22. Flavor said, on March 10, 2020 at 5:22 pm

    Put another way, does anyone here give a shit about Bart’s clock? If Posey went down and they decided to “Kratz” the position the rest of the season I’d be so pissed. We have so little to look forward to this year, if there’s an opening I want to (and expect to) see our young studs plugged in there

    • willedav said, on March 10, 2020 at 8:23 pm

      Ask Kris Bryant about the clock. It’s the way GMs play the game today. I really think Bart benefits playing at least a few months above A ball.
      Kinda funny to me what Daniel said about Molina not being done in last year of his 3yrs/20 mil each contract. He’s making Posey money and last season barely hit better than Posey did coming off hip. surgery. Plus he says he wants 2 more years, which apparently is gonna be OK? wow

  23. zumiee said, on March 10, 2020 at 9:43 pm

    “SAN JOSE, Calif. (KRON) – San Jose airport officials have reported that three Transportation Security Officers have tested positive for the coronavirus”

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