A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Chasing The Game

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on May 12, 2020

I was trying to make sense last night of the owners proposal and all the reasons the players were going to say no to it but decided to just let that play itself out. Watching billionaires and millionaires fight over more money than any of us can comprehend is lame. In fact, this tweet from our local news lady felt like a more powerful message for the blog today:

Screenshot 2020-05-12 at 7.43.09 AM

Kokonuts got a letter from someone who read his book “Chasing Willie Mays”. It’s worth a read. Have a great day Flappers, hopefully one day we can get back to watching the game we love and having our heroes coalesce in our souls the way The Thrill did for me and the way Mays did for this fella:

Screenshot 2020-05-12 at 7.41.05 AM

133 Responses

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  1. djloo27 said, on May 12, 2020 at 8:41 am

    Interesting how Mays’ post career surliness is known and acknowledged by even his biggest fans. Mantle’s nasty side was only exposed by Bouton in Ball Four and really never brought up since. I don’t mean the drunk stuff – there were other things that had the Mantle fanatics up in arms.

  2. chipower9 said, on May 12, 2020 at 8:42 am

    I agree, Craig. I am getting so tired of all the bullshit from both sides (owners and players). Sure, they have to protect their interests, but do any truly continue to play for “love of the game?”

    As I said yesterday, as of late, I just have a “Fuck ’em ALL” attitude. And the commissioner needs to quit fucking with the perfect game. Asshole.

    Cool letter to Pawlie. I love that book, “Chasing Willie Mays.” For those who have read the book, would you have done anything different than Pawlie in relation to Mays?

    • zumiee said, on May 12, 2020 at 8:55 am

      Meeting celebrities that you like is a risky thing. Some people have had their feelings about the person crushed by the celebrity’s rude response. Others experience an awkward encounter that leaves a sour memory.
      The key, in my opinion, is to just do it quickly, and don’t overstay it. Leave the situation wishing you had said more instead of less.

      • pawliekokonuts said, on May 12, 2020 at 9:01 am

        And that’s what happened to me, twice, with Mays: 1 when he was a grand marshal for a parade in Syracuse; I don’t fault him; he was a prop 2 at a book signing in the ’80s across from St. Pat’s. He wasn’t surly; the publishing handlers just wanted him to keep the line moving. Sad. But NOT SAD to be in a line blocks long, in the rain, with fellow admirers.

      • zumiee said, on May 12, 2020 at 9:07 am

        But I totally understand just not doing it at all. I’ve seen celebrities in public a few times, that I chose to not go up to, and just let them have their privacy.
        I did have to go up to Peter Buck of REM, though, a musical hero of mine. I am SO glad it went well. He was super friendly to me; I got to shake his hand and tell him how much I admire his work. And I left before it could get awkward. I still get a good feeling about the moment. If it had gone badly it would be such a terrible memory.

      • zumiee said, on May 12, 2020 at 9:16 am

        A classic moment is captured by Bouton in Ball Four, talking about asking Alvin Dark for an autograph, when Bouton was a kid.
        Dark said: “Take a hike, son.”
        That’s pretty cold.

      • pawliekokonuts said, on May 12, 2020 at 9:13 am

        That is EXACTLY why I left Mays alone, at the New York Palace hotel, by the elevator. I could have nudged my way to him. But no. Leave it alone. Leave him alone. Let it be.

  3. zumiee said, on May 12, 2020 at 8:49 am

    The players already made a deal with the owners in March about what to do with salaries in a shortened season, and now the owners want to change it.

    • djloo27 said, on May 12, 2020 at 8:52 am

      Zumie’s right and until the Supreme Court overturns the “No Backsies” law, the owners may be out of luck…

      • zumiee said, on May 12, 2020 at 9:17 am

        There’s a reason why the MLB players have the strongest union in all of sports.

      • zumiee said, on May 12, 2020 at 9:22 am

        The NFL players had their chance in ‘87, but they caved in after 3 games. The owners used less-talented replacement players and the real players got scared and folded. And today, a lot of NFL players sign crappy contracts.

      • unca_chuck said, on May 12, 2020 at 1:50 pm

        They already did, with Flynn.

  4. djloo27 said, on May 12, 2020 at 8:49 am

    Mays was only 54 when he sneered at me for no reason at a Bensonhurst card show, so I don’t think it was age…

    • alleykat69 said, on May 12, 2020 at 9:01 am

      Probably thought this punk can’t afford one of my prestige signature so I’ll give him the evil eye..

  5. djloo27 said, on May 12, 2020 at 8:55 am

    Didn’t Willie have a difficult relationship with his son?

    • pawliekokonuts said, on May 12, 2020 at 8:58 am

      Not positive, but I think I recall he’s been estranged from him, the son who went to a military academy.

  6. pawliekokonuts said, on May 12, 2020 at 8:55 am

    As I have said, I give Mays a lot of slack, not only because of my hero worship. If one observes closely, baseball has always been his harbor, his refuge, his “boat” if you will (see above). Out of that milieu, he is defensive and brittle. It may even go back to things like his relationship to Jackie Robinson, who wanted Mays to be a like-minded firebrand and not an alleged (falsely) Uncle Tom. Mays was like, “I am playing a game I utterly love and getting paid for it. What’s better than that?” I am not excusing uncourtly behavior, but I feel I can understand it. (Think of Paul Newman, who had had it with fans once someone asked him for an autograph at a urinal. Can you blame him?) Maybe the surliness was perpetuated by the press; they like a chip on their shoulder (cf. Steve Carlton; they hated him for his silence, which became talkativeness by the time the Giants had him). Contrast Mays in public: talking to Bob Costas or at a trophy event in NYC in 2015, he is a delight, voluble, loose, having a blast, sitting in the dugout once again, roaming the CF meadows.

    As for me, I have the perfect coda to all this: When I nervously and sheepishly called Willie Mays in 2016 after CHASING WILLIE MAYS came out, he answered and could not have been more generous, kindly, courtly, and warm. He wanted to talk more.

    I’ll take that. Full circle, from the beginning of the book when a nine-year-old kid, missing his team and his hero, tried to call Willie Mays from Stamford, Connecticut.

    • alleykat69 said, on May 12, 2020 at 9:08 am

      If I was Paul Newman that would piss me off too.Nothing like some stupid idiot asking for an autograph while your junk is hanging out!

  7. pawliekokonuts said, on May 12, 2020 at 9:04 am

    Nobody up here believes me. And you all may not either. I don’t care if MLB plays. Not interested. In fact, I prefer the year off, its silence, its lack of scoreboard-boxscore anxiety. I don’t miss it. My view has nothing to do with owners, players, or fans. It’s just me. Maybe because I’m old.

  8. pawliekokonuts said, on May 12, 2020 at 9:06 am

    And Pam Cook’s sister got it right. We are NOT all in the same boat. Some are not even on a dinghy. Some don’t even have a life preserver. And that was before corona.

    • alleykat69 said, on May 12, 2020 at 9:17 am

      Some use a shredded up raincoat to make a makeshift raft for 3 like in “Escape from Alcatraz”

      • zumiee said, on May 12, 2020 at 9:48 am

        Yeah, their “raft” was the weak link in the plan.

  9. willedav said, on May 12, 2020 at 9:08 am

    Interesting quote from A’s reliever Jake Diekman, A’s pitcher who has ulcerative colitis an autoimmune condition. At end of Chron story, “Diekman believes that baseball will be played this year, that owners and the union will work out the details to keep everyone safe and he’ll be on board, even as he is on high alert about protecting himself.” He himself says, “I just greatly care about my own health, ya know? Hopefully, we can start up soon!”

    Just think this is how it is going to go–players want to play and get back to work and will sort out the safety (and the $$) issues as best they can. The guys on Giants making lot of $$$ will never have chance to do this again, and the other 70% of players on team making a mil or less wouldn’t have any other recourse either.

  10. pawliekokonuts said, on May 12, 2020 at 9:09 am

    I recently said to my friend Alfredo: “You know, Al, nothing is ever going to be the same after this, this virus. Nothing will be the same, nothing.”
    Without missing a beat, he said: “It never is.”
    True Buddhist reply.
    I’ve compiled 48 pieces from my blog for a new book. Tentative title: FAILURE TO THRIVE: Tales from Coronavirusville and Elsewhere.

  11. willedav said, on May 12, 2020 at 9:23 am

    John Shea’s book “24:Life Stories and Lessons from the Say Hey Kid” due out any day. He talked about this over weekend–no biblio, all anecdotes and stories from Mays himself and others.

    Wasn’t aware of this but found a column from mlb.com dated 3/30 done by Chris Haft. Murph wrote a book, “From the Stick to the Cove: My 6 Decades with the San Francisco Giants.” Haft wrote a story about it on mlb.com and it includes excerpt great from Murph about playing ball with Mays batting LH and batboys after games.

    • chipower9 said, on May 12, 2020 at 12:26 pm

      I pre-ordered this a couple of weeks ago. Can’t wait to give it a read.

  12. gianthead said, on May 12, 2020 at 9:27 am

    I am pretty confident they are playing ball by July 3rd. Interesting question if there won’t be any fans, will most games be played dur8ng the day and will they have to play most weeknight games at least at night for TV ratings and ad revenue?

    And I was speculating last night on the 81 game schedule…duh…they obviously go 82 games so that the extra rivalry series wont have to be 3 games in one team’s park…they go 4 games and split the games 2-2 at each park for fairness.

  13. gianthead said, on May 12, 2020 at 9:31 am

    Oh yeah need to comment on that Lighthouse movie. Just watched it Sunday and ehat a dark, bropding movie. Someone here called it pretentious and that is probably fair but the acting performance by Willem Dafoe is unbelievable pulling off that New/Old England/sailor accent and he looks like a bloody 19th Century lighthouse keeper. Shooting the movie in black and white to depict the starkness and the violent contrast of the ocean is pretty special. But it is haunting and dont think I could ever sit through it again…

    • gianthead said, on May 12, 2020 at 9:32 am

      I read in that one rant scene by Dafoe calling down Poseidon that he does not blink for two minutes during his soliloquy. Incredible moment of acting…

    • xoot said, on May 12, 2020 at 12:03 pm

      I heard Dafoe interviewed on the radio when the movie first arrived. He tried to generate interest in his performance by touting the overall product, praising the filmmakers’ “Melvillian” inspiration and ambition. I was intrigued. I was disappointed. The mish-mash of homoeroticism and mysticism was ridiculous. The Poseidon stuff was bullshit. Commit seagullicide and bring the wrath of bad weather down on your head? Melville, who generally preferred Asian religions and monstrous adversaries, would say: “Pfffffft.”

  14. alleykat69 said, on May 12, 2020 at 10:11 am

    Omg the players would only receive 50 % of their salaries? There needs to be a “Go Fund Me” setup for both players and owners you greedy bastards.While the rest of us peasants struggle to maintain a job and put food on the table!

  15. Bozo said, on May 12, 2020 at 10:14 am

    If they do end up playing, will the contract clauses banning players from certain activities be eliminated? I mean, how would an owner justify telling a player to play during a pandemic but turn around and tell the guy he can’t play basketball, ride dirt bikes or wash his truck?

    • chipower9 said, on May 12, 2020 at 12:33 pm

      I think washing the truck will still be out…

    • xoot said, on May 12, 2020 at 12:57 pm

      Take these chances if you want to get paid and don’t take these. Sounds like a baseball contract to me.

  16. Winder said, on May 12, 2020 at 11:19 am

    Mays will always be the greatest player I have ever seen. Got a signed ball from him. My dad used to tell me you could always catch him at the Golf course. Since my dad didn’t play golf I imagine he meant the lounge at the golf course.

  17. zumiee said, on May 12, 2020 at 11:25 am

    “the players would only receive 50 % of their salaries?”

    No, the owners are now proposing that the players get 50% of the revenue of the shortened season, whatever that will be. The players union sees that word “revenue” and knows that it will be a battle to get the owners to open up all their accounting books for inspection. They have a strong feeling the owners will screw them over.
    And the players, coaches, umps, clubhouse workers, etc., are taking a health risk that the owners in their luxury boxes won’t be taking.

  18. Winder said, on May 12, 2020 at 11:41 am

    I can imagine one of the reason’s Mays was pissed a lot is because of the salaries mediocre players were getting after he retired.

    • zumiee said, on May 12, 2020 at 1:02 pm


  19. xoot said, on May 12, 2020 at 11:52 am

    The mlbpa is a strange union. Every player on a forty-man roster is a member. If you combine players on the 26s who are still pre-arb, I think the majority of members must be players receiving something around the league minimum. But I have no idea if the players possess strong voting rights. Members of large unions often don’t.

    Some mlbpa members earn 40 times as much as others (compare Posey and Cueto with Duggar and Dubon). If the mlbpa really wants to meet its obligations across the board to protect salary and health and safety, it would insist on an opt-out clause in this 2020 side deal: Any member could choose to sit out 2020, while still receiving some part of his pay. Something like that. imo.

    If the mlbpa does a shitty job on this deal, it should face a tsunami of grievance claims, and mlb should face litigation blowback too, in arbitration and elsewhere. Both sides need to compromise carefully.

  20. willedav said, on May 12, 2020 at 12:06 pm

    per what xoot said re salaries I just looked up Cotts on widget for 2020
    Posey Cueto Smardz Belt Longo Craw are $15 mil+ (Longo though I think rays still kick in 2 mil)
    Gausman 9 mil Smyly 4 Watson flores Pence 3 Tyler Anderson 1.775 mil
    Dick and all the rest (14 players at least on big club with more to come) are under 1 mil with majority in $500K range for this season going in.

    Owners will save a lot on travel and reduced expenses to operate yards as long as they are without fans. Profits have continued to rise steadily even as attendance has dropped off and have outstripped rise in salaries. Players should be really careful what you agree to, this season and beyond.

    • xoot said, on May 12, 2020 at 12:15 pm

      yeah, the 2021 season is looming

  21. djloo27 said, on May 12, 2020 at 12:25 pm

    My guess is no pro sports till the NFL with a delayed start as late as December…

    • Flavor said, on May 12, 2020 at 12:29 pm

      I’m still thinking we’re seeing baseball in July. The owners proposal is just a starting point. Nobody comes in with their best offer first in an expected tough negotiation. Maybe because it’s going to be tough there won’t be time to put something realistic together in time to play 82. But I still think, at the end of the day, the owners and the players really do need each other. Sitting out an entire season would be awful for both…..

  22. Stan Shell said, on May 12, 2020 at 1:04 pm

    Nobody in Major League anything wants to be the one that says, “Season is cancelled”. Trump, and his minions would go nuts and try crazy things. At this point all the Trumpanistas are realizing that the tide is going out on them. If they don’t get the economy going they will all go down in November and they know it. In case nobody has noticed the countries that have opened up have had cases go up. There will be half-assed attempts at some form of normalcy, but until restaurants can open up without fear being your dinner partner the rest of sports just isn’t going to fly.

    News from the web today:
    “I would think that if there is an infected football player on the field – a middle linebacker, a tackle, whoever it is it – as soon as they hit the next guy, the chances are that they will be shedding virus all over that person.”
    Fauci said it was inevitable the virus would be around in September. “

    • djloo27 said, on May 12, 2020 at 1:55 pm

      My reverence of Fauci has taken a hit lately…

  23. zumiee said, on May 12, 2020 at 1:07 pm

    The players union also is leery of setting a precedent of tying the players’ salaries to the teams’ revenues, even if for one shortened season. It has the scent of salary cap to it, and the union has always fought hard against that. The players’ salaries these days are not tied to any formula involving the teams’ revenues.

  24. mrsprtdude said, on May 12, 2020 at 1:29 pm

    Hi all,
    2 things..1st. Thanks for the condolences. Much appreciated.
    2nd re same boat..If you have resourses you use them when you can. I don’t see baseball in 2020, because some players won’t play. Will refuse. maybe it will be like a strike year with more players crossing he line so to speak.

    My sister is an ER nurse. Single parent (husband had HA years ago). Has a mortgage. bills. She has Lupus. An autoimmune disorder that attacks your organs among other things. Because Trump has been stupidly taughting a drug hydroxychloroquine to help with Covid, even though lots of MD’s say it is totally not helpful, there is now a shortage worldwide, like toilet paper. It is used for malaria and LUPUS!
    Most pharmancies are out, and my 60 year old sister will have to cut her dosage potentially if she runs out in a month. Back to the point…She is working. Has to. A minimum wage player and his 600k sa;ary may be able to make it to nest season. A player with an actual guarenteed contract can just say no!

  25. djloo27 said, on May 12, 2020 at 2:07 pm

    The concept of contact tracing baffles me.
    How the fuck is that possible in any kind of widespread way?
    Might as well just list everyone whose tested positive on a website.
    Break it down by zip code and test date.
    As if there are tests available…

    • zumiee said, on May 12, 2020 at 2:17 pm

      Ideally it would have been started back in February when Conservatives were dismissing the low number of cases in the U.S., and saying that any alarm about it was a hoax.
      That would have taken a competent president mobilizing the Federal government’s resources, though. And we had, and still have, the opposite of that, of course.

    • xoot said, on May 12, 2020 at 2:25 pm

      Ask PaulinAsia. I think he said that the Viet Nam government has been tracking him and his many contacts ever since he bought his RR ticket from Hanoi to Saigon (or HCMCity, I guess). Viet Nam has been handling the pandemic very well.

      • xoot said, on May 12, 2020 at 2:31 pm

        Here’s one example of the value of tracing — it’s not just identifying who, it’s also identifying how:

        “Some really great shoe-leather epidemiology demonstrated clearly the effect of a single asymptomatic carrier in a restaurant environment (see [diagram] below). The infected person (A1) sat at a table and had dinner with 9 friends. Dinner took about 1 to 1.5 hours. During this meal, the asymptomatic carrier released low-levels of virus into the air from their breathing. Airflow (from the restaurant’s various airflow vents) was from right to left. Approximately 50% of the people at the infected person’s table became sick over the next 7 days. 75% of the people on the adjacent downwind table became infected. And even 2 of the 7 people on the upwind table were infected (believed to happen by turbulent airflow). No one at tables E or F became infected, they were out of the main airflow from the air conditioner on the right to the exhaust fan on the left of the room. (Ref [the diagram of the restaurant)”

        That’s an excerpt from the article I linked yesterday.


      • djloo27 said, on May 12, 2020 at 2:37 pm

        Maybe all restaurants should install high powered ceiling fans and operate them in reverse…

      • xoot said, on May 12, 2020 at 2:48 pm

        sounds like the sort of “turbulent airflow” that explains the outlier victims in the example. At least it would spread the risk evenly.

  26. zumiee said, on May 12, 2020 at 2:23 pm

    “My reverence of Fauci has taken a hit lately…”

    Me too. He allowed Trump to turn the task force into a farce. Fauci tried to “walk a fine line.” Yeah, right. He bent over backwards to not contradict any of Trump’s insane ramblings, and allowed the task force to have non-stop muddied mixed messages. Nobody knows WHAT the task force stands for on anything. At least the stupid task force TV briefings are over with. Trump decided those were starting to hurt him politically.
    Birx has been totally useless. Sure wears nice scarves, though. The scarves are a big hit on TV. I imagine her standing in front of her closet and pondering what great scarf she’s going to wear that day.

  27. zumiee said, on May 12, 2020 at 2:27 pm

    Fauci and Birx are as effective as Rowand in his last season with the Giants.

    • Winder said, on May 12, 2020 at 3:11 pm

      The anti-vaccination people are really ripping Fauci on you tube. Pretty much to the tune of he’s responsible for everything bad that’s happening. To me he is still the most sensible out of all of em.

      • djloo27 said, on May 12, 2020 at 4:15 pm

        He may just be in over his head with this thing.
        Like everyone else seems to be…

      • Winder said, on May 12, 2020 at 4:46 pm

        Loo- you are right about being over his head on this. The problems this virus has caused is so much more than just medical. when working citizens can’t pay the rent, lose their medical insurance, their jobs, etc, it becomes a whole different ballgame. I am not sure exactly what should be done at this point except to continue doing the basic stuff like masks, washing hands, protecting yourself and others.

    • djloo27 said, on May 12, 2020 at 3:12 pm

      Rowand doesn’t really deserve all the grief he gets.
      How about as effective as the Giant bullpen in this game?


      • willedav said, on May 12, 2020 at 3:32 pm

        Yes he does. Funny his last game was also giants cubs, aug 30 2011. Pinch hit and struck out. 2011 was just so awful and he was definitely a part of it. Take a look at guys that played that day and how bad they were.

      • alleykat69 said, on May 12, 2020 at 3:35 pm

        Yeah but Rowand was such an easy target to be “The Whipping Boy” with his constipated batting stance which made me more sick than Covaid19 ever could..

  28. unca_chuck said, on May 12, 2020 at 2:31 pm

    Sorry to hear about your father, ‘Dude. And that’s a sad state of affairs with your sister. The ‘same storm’ is very apt. There are millions who are in untenable situations being routinely and regularly ignored by this, and many other, administrations. And this will magnify the problem 100x. Trump always talks of helping the workers, the people, but he has yet to do anything for them. And yeah, anyone affected by Trump’s idiocy should sue. Not that anything would come from it, but he’s such a litigious fuck that he deserves all he gets. People are dying from his reckless disregard for science and facts.

  29. mrsprtdude said, on May 12, 2020 at 3:42 pm

    UC..a mess to be sure.
    DLoo…For me Bochy was the MASTER of bullpen use. Too bad we have to take the good with the bad after 3 in 5. Yes it is hindsite…but No F ing clue why Law was in this game. Then using pitchers 3 times for only one batter gave Cubs and fans the lift they needed. I’m ok with it now, but this was on Bochy. One of the 3 guys not named Law should have been in there and played it out till the end with a 3 run lead.

  30. alleykat69 said, on May 12, 2020 at 3:57 pm

    I can’t even imagine eating out anymore.Between what a restaurant staff has to do every single moment for customer safety, and the same goes for the customer always having to remember not to pass the bread, salt& pepper, are just get reminded constantly that you’re fuckin up! It will a walk-in on eggs scenario for everyone in the beginning..

    • djloo27 said, on May 12, 2020 at 4:09 pm

      I think a vaccine could return things to some semblance of what they were.
      Maybe not for the high risk crowd.
      If I was vaccinated, I’d go back to doing everything I did before – just more carefully, I guess…

      • chipower9 said, on May 12, 2020 at 5:05 pm

        Agree. A proven, well tested vaccine that was effective without issues.

  31. djloo27 said, on May 12, 2020 at 4:01 pm

    Law A.K.A. “The Doughy Fuck” courtesy of our leader…

  32. djloo27 said, on May 12, 2020 at 4:20 pm

    Sorry to break this to you, Flavor…


    • Flavor said, on May 12, 2020 at 5:20 pm

      twitter broke that to me yesterday so dealing me this *double news* isn’t making it any easier to mourn. lqtm

  33. Flavor said, on May 12, 2020 at 5:18 pm

    Well, the quarantine just took down my daughter’s relationship. Kid was like “I’ve just lost feelings for you.” Well no shit dumbass, that’s the mindset I would expect from a 17 year old boy who hasn’t gotten to see his girlfriend in 2 months. She’s bummed but the reality is, she was always out of his league anyway. He’s an idiot. I told her that and one day she’ll realize I’m right.

    • djloo27 said, on May 12, 2020 at 10:10 pm

      I took breakups pretty hard at that age.
      By my late 20’s, I realized every one of ’em was a blessing.
      Shook ’em off like a sheepdog coming in from the rain.
      Once went 6 for 6 in softball game 10 minutes after one of the uglier ones…

  34. Flavor said, on May 12, 2020 at 5:21 pm

    if you were a Yankee fan wouldn’t this majorly piss you off?

    • willedav said, on May 12, 2020 at 5:36 pm

      mm interesting…300 lbs? Further down there are couple more articles on Yanks including one noting strength of both AL and NL East divisions.

  35. djloo27 said, on May 12, 2020 at 5:49 pm

    Just tried to watch “The Miracle Worker” but couldn’t stay with it.
    That Helen Keller was a fuckin’ handful…

  36. Flavor said, on May 12, 2020 at 5:50 pm

    not a surprise. I have long thought that while they may not have a reliable, sustained fan base they’ll have no problem selling tickets at a premium–it’ll be just like a Vegas show and it will sell out every game—I mean, once we return to sports normalcy again….

    • chipower9 said, on May 13, 2020 at 7:34 am

      I have a good friend here who has season tix with the Rayduhs. They have been in the family for a long time…his dad was an ardent Raider fan. When they moved, Kelly and his sister thought long-and-hard about whether or not to continue the season tix, and decided to pull the trigger.

  37. zumiee said, on May 12, 2020 at 6:53 pm

    People can’t remember anything she ever said about the virus, but her scarves are the stuff of legend.

  38. zumiee said, on May 12, 2020 at 7:02 pm

    Kuiper was on KNBR today:

    “You’re a player and you’re in this union,” Kuiper said Tuesday on “Murph & Mac” on KNBR. “For the last four years, you’ve been reading about how all these last negotiations, you’ve gotten your ass kicked. You’ve given away stuff that now you regret doing. So what are you going to do the next time around?”

    “Do you want to be the bad guy? That’s the thing. Because if the Players Association doesn’t bend a little bit and agree to something with the owners, they’re going to be the bad guy,” said Kuiper, who played from 1974-85. “I’ve been the bad guy three or four different times with strikes. It’s not fun being the bad guy. … What you have to hope is within these negotiations, you don’t try to take advantage of what’s going on. We see it on TV every day with Congress and with Senate, and they won’t pass these bills because one side thinks they’re being taken advantage of, the other side doesn’t want to budge. Well, I hope that doesn’t happen with this, but it could.”

    “The more we get closer to June and they don’t have an agreement, the worse it’s going to get,” Kuiper predicted. “Because then the heat is going to be applied on whatever side you’re for. I don’t think the union’s going to budge a lot, I don’t. I think they’re bruised, they’re not used to getting their butt kicked. I think they’re going to play it hard and play it till the bitter end, and we’ll see what happens.”

  39. PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on May 12, 2020 at 8:00 pm

    Re: Xoot’s post above, Vietnam has indeed been effective in controlling Corona because the gov’t has managed all three stages of the 3-prong approach (test-track-treat) very well. Very helpful to be able to do all 3. The tracing thing here isn’t really that they’re following everyone’s movements (although I did hear that in the big cities in China, there is such an app), it’s more to just keep track of (contact with) people who have been in potentially high-risk situations (I guess my 32-hour train trip falls into that category). If someone on that train turned up positive, everyone else would be contacted and asked to quarantine, etc. Where this really worked was at one hospital in Hanoi where the thing just exploded in early March. Everyone going into or out of that hospital had their apps scanned. When Corona got set loose there, the gov’t had traces on 5000 people who now were “out there” in society with potential infection. They tracked them all, and they all went into quarantine. Could’ve been an endless nightmare, that one, but within 3 weeks, it was contained again.

    By the way, I ate lunch at a restaurant with some friends yesterday… first time eating in a restaurant since mid-February. It felt strange. I kept looking around like I’d never seen a restaurant before. Even though restrictions started loosening 3 weeks ago, they’re doing it slowly here. Bars, clubs, spas, mostly still closed but now starting to trickle open again. We’ll see if it all explodes in the next few weeks…. One more “by the way”, I posted a video on my FB page that describes how VN has beat this thing up until now, and I’m in it a few times offering my take on Corona. It’s kind of a puff piece about how well VN has handled it, but what the hell. Hope the US gov’t doesn’t start watching me as a commie sympathizer. Ah, fuck ’em.

    • zumiee said, on May 12, 2020 at 9:44 pm

      I’ve always found the shape of the nation interesting, with the narrow part in the middle. I’m kind of a map nerd.

      • zumiee said, on May 12, 2020 at 9:51 pm

        The U.S. used the excuse of a U.S. ship supposedly being fired upon in the Gulf of Tonkin to go to war vs. North Vietnam. Looking at the map, it’s not obvious why a U.S. ship was hanging out in that gulf.

      • PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on May 12, 2020 at 10:17 pm

        Supposedly there was one such incident, though minor, and then the US claimed a 2nd incident, which apparently never happened, to justify accelerated presence in the region. Kind of like that era’s weapons of mass destruction….

      • djloo27 said, on May 12, 2020 at 10:18 pm

        Had the Pueblo “incident” not come right before Tet it could’ve been round 2 in Korea…

      • willedav said, on May 13, 2020 at 7:26 am

        Ellsberg covered that in Pentagon Papers. US military surveillance etc. was already inside the country lot more heavily than as mere “advisers” . They knew Ho would take over entire land once we left; what we were doing and what went out publicly to news services and even to Congress, miles apart from depth of our involvement.

  40. PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on May 12, 2020 at 10:16 pm

    Countries over here like to assign animal characteristics to the shapes of their nations. China is considered to look like a big chicken (fowl, not coward), Thailand like an elephant, and Vietnam like a snake (cobra-like) or even dragon. These animals are considered important in history and tradition, so… I guess it just so happens their geo-borders reflect the animal shapes.

  41. willedav said, on May 13, 2020 at 7:30 am

    Those planning to attend games in Vegas to watch Raiders might have chance to see other teams from California play there too.

    • chipower9 said, on May 13, 2020 at 7:47 am

      If the games happen, my friend who has season tix says he and his sis will go to the home opener, and also the Bucs game (that will be a hot ticket with Brady in new laundry).

      • Flavor said, on May 13, 2020 at 7:51 am

        only 8 shows a year (not counting playoffs) you gotta think that Raider ticket is going to be hot every game, right?

      • Winder said, on May 13, 2020 at 8:36 am

        I bet the Raiderettes have a huge turnout for trials. It should be a fun circus for all.

      • chipower9 said, on May 13, 2020 at 8:37 am

        Kelly plans to sell the tickets they do not use (which will be six). He has had no issue in selling the tickets he did not use when they were in Oakland. I think the same guy who typically bought his extras in Oakland is buying most if not all of the Vegas tickets not used.

      • willedav said, on May 13, 2020 at 8:50 am

        Raiders might not be only home team playing there. If there is issue with other LA teams, Vegas could be hosting games every weekend.

  42. alleykat69 said, on May 13, 2020 at 8:18 am

    My son thru his radio station gig has perks to see the Raiders play and also the Chargers/Rams in these new state of the art stadiums..

  43. willedav said, on May 13, 2020 at 8:54 am

    Scrolling through various national sports channels saw last 20 minutes of NY Rangers Stanley Cup highlights and subsequent parade from 1994. Well done, cool show talking to fans reporters Messier speaking at parade before incredible mass of people yada yada.

  44. Macdog said, on May 13, 2020 at 9:00 am

    Vegas is scheduled to host four night games, including two on Sunday, which is unusual for a team that went 7-9. The big test re attendance will be potential Week 15 non-contender matchup vs. Chargers, who have just about obliterated their fan base.

    • willedav said, on May 13, 2020 at 9:20 am

      Funny, even in San Diego that was practically a Raider home game, LA even more so. Big test is still gonna be are the Raiders any good, and can they compete in that division for even a WC. If answer is no then I’d still be skeptical how well they can fill yard on regular basis beyond first year. Don’t forget, Vegas economically is hurting big time with all the casinos closed and when they do reopen hotels and all gambling aren’t gonna be the same given social distancing yada yada.

      • Macdog said, on May 13, 2020 at 9:43 am

        Yep. As others have said, the visiting fan turnout will be enormous. But eventually the novelty will wear out. If the Raiders aren’t any good, which has been the case more often than not for a long time now, no one is paying top $$$ to see two bad teams late in the season (Dolphins visit in Week 16) when then could be spending money playing craps and getting a lap dance.

  45. chipower9 said, on May 13, 2020 at 9:19 am

    Latest on MLB…the players say they are not concerned about their health, but about their rights/pay (prorated pay that was negotiated in late March). Sounds like the revenue sharing proposal by the owners is No Bueno for the players.


    • xoot said, on May 13, 2020 at 10:21 am

      Thanks, Chuck. Very interesting article. The headline’s a bit misleading, though. Boras says HIS players aren’t concerned about their health. He’s sort of the representative for the union of the top 1%. Naturally, his clients want to get as much of their huge 2020 salaries as they can get. (And naturally Boras wants his cut of all that.)

      I wonder how those in the bottom 50% of mlbpa (pre-arb league-minimum players) feel? They need to play to improve, and to prove themselves, if they want careers — and surely they do. But they need to be strong and healthy to build those careers. And some of them, apparently, have already received big chunks of their 2020 salaries. I think those young guys will play, but a lot of them may be negatively distracted.

  46. chipower9 said, on May 13, 2020 at 9:19 am

    NFL considering moving California teams out of state to play, if needed.


  47. willedav said, on May 13, 2020 at 9:27 am

    Read something about what Vegas (and I’d guess Reno too) gambling would look like going forward. Strict limit (4 maybe) on how many players allowed at poker table, spread out slots, etc. Retired friend of mine likes going up to Reno with missus for the drive, hang out shop at outlets, gambles a little/eats a lot. Usually goes few days early in week, gets room comped or some kind of deal. wonder if new policies sure to be in place would matter or not.

  48. chipower9 said, on May 13, 2020 at 9:42 am

    My county, El Dorado, has been one of two that has been green-lighted to move forward with opening certain businesses/schools:

    Office-based businesses (telework remains strongly encouraged)
    Select services: car washes, pet grooming, and landscape gardening
    Destination retail, including shopping malls and swap meets
    Dine-in restaurants (other amenities, like bars or gaming areas, are not permitted in Stage 2)
    Outdoor museums, and open gallery spaces and other public spaces with modifications
    Schools with modifications

  49. chipower9 said, on May 13, 2020 at 9:46 am

    Just saw that five more counties have been added to the list. All are NorCal counties.

    The seven counties that can move forwarded on this restricted basis are:

    El Dorado, Butte, Lassen, Nevada, Placer, Amador and Shasta.

    Fuck, I may be able to hit my local brewery soon (they serve food). I am sure the bar will be closed, but will be interesting to see how this all plays-out.

    I have been meeting several friends on Friday afternoons who I regularly met at the brewery several times a week. We meet on Friday afternoon at a friends house. He has a huge outdoor deck, and we spread-out and keep our social distance. Everyone brings their own poison.

  50. chipower9 said, on May 13, 2020 at 9:48 am

    Latest info on the MLB draft, shortened from 40 rounds to five.


  51. willedav said, on May 13, 2020 at 10:35 am

    Chi, sounds like good news up there. Bay area little ways away still, we’ll see. I visited a buddy of mine (no masks) for lunch etc., brought my own we sat out on his deck, great couple hour diversion. Good to catch up beyond texts. Might visit friend I used to walk dogs with; one of hers is quite old and infirm and might need a carrier. She said I could push her (small dog) around. Think I’ll do this when she’s not vid conferencing on job…texts only do so much.

    • chipower9 said, on May 13, 2020 at 12:47 pm

      Yeah, we do not wear masks when we meet at my friend’s house. We’ll T it up again this Friday afternoon. And yes, it is good to catch up outside of texts, phone calls, etc. There is a handful of us who meet a couple times a week for beers, and it was great to see faces again.

  52. unca_chuck said, on May 13, 2020 at 10:57 am

    LA has kept the stay-in-place order through July. They are trying to avoid New York City numbers. We’ll see if trump puts together more protest ‘rallies’.

  53. mrsprtdude said, on May 13, 2020 at 11:53 am

    I live in OC but my PT clinic in Long beach (part of LAC). 3 more months could be a deathblow for me/us. 15 people out of work, and I may lose my 20% equity that I to out a 2nd mortgage on my house to come up with. Sucks.

    My PT company had >1000 employees across western US. Now about 700. As a PT I cannot distance from patients. Hands on treatment for joints and muscles. Over 10 weeks of hands on care across the enterprise guess how many covid? ZERO. I mentioned my sister, an ER nurse near Boston, so I here the bad stories too, and am conflicted. Zero is an important number. Masks and hand washing is what it takes. Not permanent shut down.

    It’s not about not caring for people who could die. Shut down was to flatten the curve, so as not to overwhelm the healthcare system. That has ben achieved.

    Just think about this. Wealthy are ok with no money for a while. Say top 5-10% depending on where you live. Bottom 5-10 permanently poor, and on assistance before covid. The next 15-20% of near or at minimum wage are making as much if not more on unemployement. Then add all the Fed, state, city gov still working / getting paid. Then add all the employees in the public education system across the country (millions of people) still getting paid. Whats left?

    Bottom 35%, + GOV, + School system. Those are the biggests voices saying we should stay shut down. Hypocritical in a way. The middle and upper middle getting squezzed hard. How much longer should we let us / them suffer? A question worth pondering. But instead it is villification. Sad.

    • chipower9 said, on May 13, 2020 at 12:53 pm

      Hang in there, brother. I hope things work out well for you. I have been very lucky. I am a contractor working with a faction of the DOE. 90% regional office (Folsom, CA) are teleworking full-time, and have been for about 9-10 weeks. The 10% are critical and work onsite.

      So, this has not hit me financially. Again, I feel very blessed. My daughter owns a very successful hair salon that she built from ground-up, and she is not so lucky, and there are many out there like her. My girlfriend’s daughter was a server at a decent restaurant in Folsom, and she is probably making as much if not slightly more on unemployment.

      Good luck as we continue to navigate this.

  54. Stan Shell said, on May 13, 2020 at 12:04 pm

    Interesting facts coming out: Enclosed spaces seem to be the key. Outdoor casual transmissions tracked are very, very few. a stadium with spectators all 10 feet away from each other could be OK. Problem is how to do that, and…(small thing) what about the face to face contact between players? But, still a reason to try and start NFL season.

  55. Stan Shell said, on May 13, 2020 at 12:08 pm

    Dude, conversely, indoor close contact over a period time (10 minutes) seems to be the key factor in transmission. Sorry.


  56. alleykat69 said, on May 13, 2020 at 12:11 pm

    June 2,2010
    Armando Galarraga pitched what should of been a perfect game except for an obvious blown call by umpire Jim Joyce at 1B.When the next night apologized many times to Armando when he brought the LU card to home plate for the Tigers.
    After getting a mouth full of obscenities from manager Jim Leyland and players after that should of been perfecto, he manned up and said he was sick to his stomach how I blew that call and pleading with Armando even today to have baseball officials reconsider changing it in history..Hey if US President’s can pardon scumbags, baseball should come thru for Galarraga&Joyce and make it right..

    • zumiee said, on May 13, 2020 at 12:32 pm

      The Commissioner has the power to make it right, even at this late date. Selig wimped out, because he felt he would be opening a can of worms, and other rulings from past games would be demanded. But, sheesh, how often are you going to have a perfect game ruined by one blown call from an ump? It would be so easy to fix this. Manfred should do it.

  57. willedav said, on May 13, 2020 at 12:55 pm

    uh oh Heyman says players are gonna approve universal DH for this season.

    • alleykat69 said, on May 13, 2020 at 1:29 pm

      You know what that means, it’s baseball easy out to make it happen permanently going forward!!
      Screw the DH in NL! Keep it in the Junior Circuit only..

    • chipower9 said, on May 13, 2020 at 2:59 pm

      That fucking blows. I swear, the nitwits running the game today are fucking destroying it. The DH should be banned, entirely, IMO. Will never happen, but I sure as hell don’t want it in he NL. Pfffttt…

  58. unca_chuck said, on May 13, 2020 at 1:28 pm

    Dude, my chiropractor shut down for a month but has since reopened. I’m not sure if she’s breaking laws or anything but she says she’s about at 60% of her bookings before the virus. She’s in Contra Costa County.

  59. blade3colorado said, on May 13, 2020 at 3:57 pm

    The last 14 days have been a whirlwind – moved out here on April 30th from Colorado and arrived in Sunnyvale 2 days later at my mom’s home. Fast forward a few days later, I drove out to Placerville and met Chi’s realtor friend, where we scoped out approximately 20 homes over a 2 day period. I also saw Chi last Thursday while I was in the area. Chi figuratively OWNS “Hangtown.” Dude knows everyone in the town and is well liked by all. Hard to explain in words, but my already high regard for Chi increased a hundred fold after walking down the main street with him . . . I felt like I was with the King or Queen of England after that experience. Anywho, I know whom to go to when I have a question/need a favor in the community.

    So, I bought a house and I was blown away about 2 things regarding the place: 1. How much of a bargain it was versus the other places I visited, i.e., the owner took excellent care of the place and no way, no how, could I afford a comparable place in Colorado, much less the SF Bay Area; and, 2. How frickin’ expensive fire insurance is in this area . . . first few quotes came in at $4k to $5k annually. Holy shit! State Farm, along with some other major insurance carriers wont even insure homes in the area. I finally was able to get a reasonable quote after working with my realtor, lender and insurer to tweak the annual payments down to $3300. My insurance payment will likely be the same or more than my mortgage payment. lqtm. Here’s a link of the house (all Flappers welcome to visit if you’re in the area and/or on the way to Lake Tahoe):


    Unrelated to my adventures, I am so sorry for the loss of your father Mike. Coupled with what you are going through at your work, this is obviously a very trying time for you and your family. Thoughts and prayers are with you and them.

    Similarly, I saw a post from Micah regarding his job situation – I hope that’s been resolved satisfactorily in your favor and this pandemic crap doesn’t continue to impact you and your family.

    I have missed quite a few posts here, except for the last few threads I caught up on. Related to the pandemic and what Sportsdude, Dirt, and others here are going through – I have zero interest in baseball restarting. I wont go into details, but my family and I had a falling out, where I actually slept in a park last week. lol. I am currently staying at a friend’s home in Elk Grove, which was convenient because I have numerous home closing issues to address in the area. So fast forward today, the good news is that my family situation was resolved and I will be back in Sunnyvale for a few days beginning tomorrow.

    What else? Not too much, except I am excited and anxious to move into my new home and have some normalcy return to my life. I hope all of you guys are well!

    • chipower9 said, on May 13, 2020 at 4:30 pm

      King or Queen of England…LMAO! As I said, I have lived in this area since the early 80s. Had two kids attend schools local from K-12. So, after that many years, you know people, especially in a small town/community. I am happy for you, and think you’ll like the area. Also, heard the firing range has re-opened. Get yourself a handgun and we’ll go spend a few rounds. They also have great classes for anything from novices, to concealed-carry classes.

      Anyway, I was glad to help and so happy for you that it all worked-out. Congrats! It is cool that Cheryl worked-out for you as an agent. She’s a sweetheart…I coached her kids in LL when our kids were all growing-up together.

      Happy to hear the family shenanigans got resolved. Listen, if you need a place to hang your hat while handling things with the house, you can stay in my travel trailer for a few days. Let me know if that is something that would be helpful.

      Glad we are going to be El Dorado county neighbors, Blade!

      • blade3colorado said, on May 13, 2020 at 9:52 pm

        Me too Chi. My other 2 buddies I grew up with in grade school and high school are relatively nearby too (in Elk Grove and Stockton).

        Thank you for the offer of a temporary place to land. Much appreciated!

    • djloo27 said, on May 13, 2020 at 9:15 pm

      All the best to you, Blade.
      Great looking house.
      The driveway is crying out for a basketball court!
      How far from Chi will you be living?

      • blade3colorado said, on May 13, 2020 at 9:47 pm

        My basketball ball days are in the rear view mirror Loo. Maybe I could handle a game of horse. Maybe.

        Umm, Chi is about 20-25 minutes away.

  60. willedav said, on May 13, 2020 at 4:42 pm

    mlbtr story on top DH candidates for NL…one guess (and what team connected to him) who is at top of list.
    Will saran wrap be the new t-p in Brooklyn?

    • djloo27 said, on May 13, 2020 at 6:43 pm

      I stocked up a couple of weeks ago when the rumor had resurfaced.
      It just won’t die!
      Puig and Wilmer was my winter dream scenario (along with that little football game in early February)…

      • willedav said, on May 13, 2020 at 8:47 pm

        lulz it’s middle of May and we’re still talking about him. I was thinking about KC, Giants 3.5 watching Rangers Stanley Cup highlight. That’s a nice trifecta.

  61. Irish Kevin said, on May 13, 2020 at 4:46 pm

    Hello all, I just read an article in the Chron, Twitter asked if people will go back to the stadium, 39% say they will wait till next year. Most of the fans that were 60 and older said that unless there is a vaccine they would not be going to the ballpark. I think all sports need to look at their seating, way too close. A guy in the article thinks attendance will be around the 17000 mark. How bout everyone here if baseball were to start up in July how many would go to a game?

    • Winder said, on May 13, 2020 at 5:03 pm

      I would want a vaccine before I get around that many people. They still don’t really know how this virus works.

  62. pawliekokonuts said, on May 13, 2020 at 5:18 pm

    Not much depth, but worth a read — to me it is, of course, because it features Mr. Mays. https://nyti.ms/3brwPi9

    • pawliekokonuts said, on May 13, 2020 at 5:20 pm

      The Times piece features a highlight-reel-type pic of Mays stealing third in an All-Star Game.

  63. pawliekokonuts said, on May 13, 2020 at 5:24 pm

    Magnus, here’s hoping your daughter has learned an important given: we (males) are not that big of a deal, not really. (I guess that sounds like a twice-divorced guy. But I am on great terms with both exes.)

  64. James said, on May 13, 2020 at 5:51 pm

    The inevitability of Biden’s loss captured:


    • James said, on May 13, 2020 at 5:54 pm

      I guess it may not be obvious: it’s the Trump website’s 404 error page.

      • djloo27 said, on May 13, 2020 at 6:36 pm

        Some clever little blogger suggested Trump use this as a campaign slogan:

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