Coors’d Again
Well, you can’t love the 23 runs scored on Tuesday and then complain about the loss yesterday. Coors Field is a joke, the goal is to not let the joke be on you. Tough loss but utterly understandable in that environment.
post season chances actually went up with that loss for some reason from 39% to 42%.
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Agree. We all know what a shop of horrors that place is…no lead is safe there.
I think the playoff possibilities go up based on the Giants remaining schedule. Out of 24 games remaining, 14 are against the DBacks, Mariners and Rox. Remainder against Dago and A’s
Hey Chi!
That Air Fryer I got is the all-in-one model you were talking about. I got it at Costco. I’m still learning how to use it, but it seems pretty cool. Big though—I can’t even fit it in any of my kitchen storage, so it has to sit out on the counter. I’ll keep you posted as I better figure out how to use it.
(I guess I should start with reading the Owner’s Manual!)
Looking forward to matching up with Bum this weekend. Still wish we had him, but life moves on.
why do you still wish we had him? Not signing him was one of Z’s best moves so far. He’s done. He can hope for a little better fate than Matt Harvey, that’s it
He’s an SF Giant legend and I like the idea of keeping those guys around. Plus, as Loo as pointed out many times, he is not a guy who relies on high 90’s gas to get people out. He is a pitcher who I think has many good years left in him. I’m not scared off by 3-4 bad starts. He’s gonna be fine long term.
I remember guys on here burying Zack Greinke when he struggled at the beginning of the season. Next thing you know, he’s got 18 wins and damn near pitched his team to a ring.
(Last season I meant for Greinke obviously)
Hey SanD – thanks. Yes…I know the footprint of that unit is big. I will have to store it probably in our pantry area or in my shop. Based on what I have heard from folks with these units, they love them. Given I do almost all of the cooking, I am always looking for efficiency and a way to cook healthful meals in less time.
RE: Bum. I am looking forward to Saturday’s game, but agree with Flav that I am happy that ships has sailed. I truly am not sure he has much left. Time will tell…maybe he gets healthy and pitches lights-out again, but I don’t think it was worth the risk, given his age, etc.
Hope all is well for you and yours, brother.
nearly every metric shows he’s declined significantly. Handing him over 75 mil would have been a terrible idea. Legends are great, they can come back for reunions or to coach. let’s devise a bet now because I’m gonna be thinking about this all day if we don’t
Don’t worry—we’ll come up with something big guy.
Let me see how he bounces back from this injury and how long of a leash they’ve got on him.
walk of shame yesterday belongs to pitching. Rox outscored SF 8-0 over last 5 innings and obviously Rox pen outshone Giants. Webb, idk how big a lead he needs. Has a lot to figure out.
As to Coonrod, his last 4 appearances he went 3 and 2/3 without allowing a run hit or walk. Of the 11 outs he had 3 Ks and 4 groundballs 3 flyballs. right move that didn’t work out for Kapler as his defense had some issues with grounders and balls hit in air, and Rogers got whacked too.
Also liked having Solano leading off and hitting right before Yaz–turned out he was only guy in lineup without a hit, 0-5.
Agree. Not Kapler’s fault that the relievers were throwing BP yesterday. Gotta be better than that.
I too agree…no issue with putting Coonhound out there when he did. He and Rogers just did not execute yesterday. That happens, and as mentioned, there were some defensive lapses that contributed to the Rox late game surge.
The closer pitching for the save is old school vs. analytics. Giants don’t “need” a closer, just better overall pitching from young pen guys. Maybe Moronta can help next season. And 2020 is learning experience for them and Kapler too.
3 run lead in 9th your closer gives up 1 or 2 he still gets credit for a save. What kind of stat is that when his ERA would be 9.00 or 18.00? Often in a game the most dangerous situation occurs earlier in the game’s later innings and that’s when you want your best guy in there.
The whole Closer thing got a bit overblown in MLB. In the 3-in-5, the Giants used three different closers for the 3 championships, and it was all made possible by having a Core 4 in the bullpen. An overall strong bullpen is way more important than just having one dominant guy who’s the closer.
This thing in MLB, where the closer has the 9th inning, and he has his own walk-up music, and all that, has gotten a bit over-dramatic. Some managers bought too far into it, and it cost them big-time. I think of Fredi Gonzalez, former manager of the Braves, who needed 4 outs to win a playoff game vs. the Dodgers to keep the Braves alive in the series. Kimbrel was all warmed up and just waiting in the bullpen to be called in with 2 outs in the 8th, with two runners on; but Gonzalez did the robotic-managing thing of “saving” Kimbrel for the 9th inning. So the reliever already in the game proceeds to give up a 3-run HR, and the Braves get eliminated. It changed everything for the Braves. Gonzalez was eventually out as manager, Kimbrel left eventually, and the Braves went through a painful rebuild.
I think, for the Giants, Affeldt was the closest thing to the “fireman” that Stix talks about. As time goes on, I think we more and more appreciate how critically important Affeldt was to the 3-in-5. When brought in, he could go a couple of innings if needed. He had strikeout stuff with that breaking pitch and could come into challenging situations. He could have occasional rough outings during the regular season, but he was lights-out in the playoffs.
His occasional goofy injuries had a way of overshadowing his legacy sometimes.
yeah Affeldt was guy I was gonna mention. He could get out LH or RH for Bochy as needed.
The traditional Fireman–say averaging the sixth inning–when the game is on the line,
As youth group coach with middle school age team we were in a tight game in last seconds with ball out of bounds. I called my fav play—post starts in corner downscreens for my best shooter and ball handler to get open and post goes to block. He’s left handed so he can turn right shoulder and score inside or my guard can shoot or drive and create.
What happened is ball got passed in to my goofiest least skilled player (dunno why i had him in that point) who catches ball at elbow, turns and drives scores with his off (left) hand and is fouled. Makes the FT and we win when other team can’t answer at other end.
As soon as this happened one of parents comes over and says that’s a nice play you ran there to get ____the ball to win game for you, as we both laughed.
Still sounds like a better play than the Thunder drew up last night.
They used 3 different closers, but they used them all in the same role. It wasn’t closer by committee. For the most part, those guys closed all year. So, 40 years of baseball closers is now suddenly passé?
Talk about overblown. I think Bochy’s lefty/righty matchup one batter per hitter for the last 3 innings shit was insanity at its finest.
I think with Romo in ’12 and Casilla in ’14, they eventually won the role during the season.
But, still, Bochy could afford to save them for the 9th inning because there were other quality relievers to take the other innings.
Is Kenly Jansen the Dodgers best reliever? I’m not sure about that. But they can keep him at closer because they are strong overall in the bullpen.
…
Sabes gets huge kudos for spending wildly on that bullpen. I was shocked when Affeldt got that $18 mill deal he did.
Yes, totally! The Giants were ahead of the rest of baseball at that point.
Of all the teams, the Giants were the team that got most ripped off by the change to the juiced ball. It totally caught the Giants’ roster in a vulnerable situation.
I was shocked when Pence got his 1 million dollar deal..
Affeldt relieved awful Hudson in 2nd inning of Game 7 vs. KC and held the fort through the 4th till Bum’s epic appearance. He did something similar in NLCS vs. Phils, too…
Yep, Affeldt ended up as the winning pitcher! And his Game 6 vs. the Phils was outstanding.
During the Yankees’ World Series run in 1998-2000, Jeff Nelson and Mike Stanton were lights-out setup guys before Mariano closed out the 9th.
And The Graeme Reaper (Lloyd) & Weathers in 96?
Oh man, forgot about those guys. I think Wetteland was the closer in ’96.
Also Ramiro Mendoza ( a dead ringer for The Grinch)…
And the Nasty boys . . .
Hey Loo,
The Chiefs just got their Super Bowl rings, they are badass looking!
Your eyeballs pop out of your sockets they sparkle so much with diamonds…
They should’ve given me one.
I made Bow Tie personally pin the 2010 World Champ button on me at Finnerty’s…
Besides Bumgarner’s dominating heroics in gm7 of the WS, it was one of Sabean’s scrap heap projects that came up big in that game.Mike Morse knocked one the 1st run of the game in the second, on a sac fly driving in Panda.Then in the 4th inning tied at 2 he hit a game winning single as it turned out to knock in Panda again!
Cool about baseball, every game u never know who the hero will be.Gm 7 it was Morse&Bum for sure..
Morse also tied the clinching game of the NLCS with a solo homer in the 8th inning to set up Ishi’s heroics.
That 2010 Game 6 vs. the Phils was wild, and incredibly tense.
J. Sanchez started the game and had nothing, and hit Utley with a pitch, and Utley picked the ball up and tossed it back towards Sanchez who took that as a challenge, and the dugouts and bullpens all emptied. Except for Affeldt; he’d been warming up to relieve Sanchez, and the bullpen coach (Gardner?) told him to stay in the bullpen and keep warming up. “You are going in.” Affeldt came in to the game, and calmed the game down. Later in the game Uribe hit a dramatic opposite field HR. Jazz Hands!! And the rest is awesome Giants history.
Zumie, that’s not the discussion. The theory is that closing is harder than the 7th or 8th. Again, I don’t know what Kapler is telling the guys, but if it is “be ready at any time in any situation” I’m sure they don’t really dig it. The prevailing strategy is to give a guy a role and then see how they handle it. Gott got 6 shots and blew his last 2 and was out.
Coonrod got a save and then was put in in a different situation. I’m sure he thought he earned another shot at it.
I get that Kapler’s trying things out, but all those Giants WS wins came with a set bullpen. Whether it was Lopez, Romo, and Castilla; or Castilla, Affeldt, and Romo, they all had roles and knew what was coming.
Agree with your Post Chuck,
Coonrod deserved the shot to close and Kapler closed the door on that.
Just because Gott fucked up doesn’t mean given a decent shot the next man up will..
Loo.. Good for you, I will give you the knowing nod of approval.I just couldn’t recall, I know I use the GraveDuggar early on but your’s was obviously first!
Now I can die in peace.
What a sad existence…
djloo27 said, on July 13, 2018 at 9:52 pm (Edit)
Grave-Duggar!
PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on July 13, 2018 at 9:54 pm (Edit)
Good one….
That must have been some serious digging, how long did it take you to find it?
Haven’t I embarrassed myself enough already?
Loo, I was impressed. no embarrassment needed imo.
Winnah Winnah Chicken Dinner. Sorry Kat…looks like Loo coined the term.
Unc, it’s all about game situation, not defined roles like set up guys are only for 7th/8th and closer only for 9th. As you mentioned “theory” is one thing but I think in case of Giants practice is quite another. I don’t really see how Kapler can set things up one specific way to have only strictly defined roles and I don’t think that is right way to go about it given who he has.
and somehow I doubt analytics would say getting 3 outs in 9th with a lead is any different than 7th depending on game situation and who is coming up. that’s why I don’t fault Kap for yesterday—godsquad had 4 good outings in a row and Rox heart of lineup was due up. so smart move is bring in your best guy then instead of waiting til the 9th.
Doesn’t mean it’s always gonna work out but it is the smarter move.
Garcia might be one of the guys to set up too, but he allowed inherited runners to score after Webb left.
Analytics won’t tell you that, but ask any closer and they WILL tell you that. It is VASTLY different.
That’s like saying there’s no more pressure in a 1st inning AB, and a 9th inning AB with the game on the line.
Agree.
Loo–thank you for finding that. Grave Dugger is the greatest nickname ever bequeathed by a Flapper to an SF Giants player. If he can somehow find a place for himself on the team I am getting his jersey with Grave Dugger emblazoned above the number on the back. Not sure how to do that but I will figure it out.
i can’t believe Grave Dugger been around for 2+ years and I just found out about it a week ago
and the funniest thing about it is that Asian Paul was the guy to give you props for it two years ago and then last week he was the dude who said he thought Kat had coined it! LOL
Krukow was even talking about it during the blow out. How pitchers struggle with games when the lead is huge. That they have a harder time getting amped up to come in and pitch when up by a lot. There’s no adrenaline.
I have no idea what analytics would say about that, but I also know that players are human and are affected by the situations they are in.
Maybe Rooncod wasn’t as jacked up to go in as he should have been. Maybe he just sucked. The point being, I think as players they want to have a defined role. Analytics be damned.
Well Kappy defiantly stuck with Gott twice against the A’s and GOTT Burned twice in the 9th! Which more then proves he’s not the answer to close a game. He hasn’t given that leash to Coonskin Cap which is unfortunate.I really think he could handle the 9th inning shutdown for the save over Gott’s obvious failures.But now because of Gott’s ineptitude, Kapler is gun shy to commit to the role..
Gott also blew one vs. the Angels after the A’s series.
Defined roles are great, when you have a really good bullpen. But….until enough guys prove themselves, the situation is fluid. It does become kind of a chicken and egg situation; which came first: a good bullpen of players with defined roles, or a bullpen that became good BECAUSE of defined roles? There’s a lot of gray area there. That’s a process of building the thing. The Giants bullpen is a work in progress.
When Matt (my oldest-29) was like 4 or 5, I took him to see the monster truck races at the Del Mar Racetrack. My buddy brought his boy too, and we had a blast. Gravedigger was of course the main attraction, but all the trucks had amusing names and cool paint jobs. It was loud as hell and the boys loved it. As we were walking out to our car afterward, I found a black Gravedigger T-Shirt in the parking lot someone had dropped. It fit Matt perfectly and he rocked that sucker big time as a kid. I can still picture it.
When we got home that night, I can clearly remember laying with Matt on the top level of his bunk bed. We were recounting stories of our day with the monster trucks. I had come up with a distinctive revving engine sound for each truck, so Matt would say “Gravedigger” and I would make one sound, and then he would say “Bigfoot” and I would make a different sound. I was high as hell and we were both laughing like crazy. I could have kept at it for hours, but at a certain point, Matt asked if I could leave him alone so he could go to sleep! It was the first and only time any of my kids (who are all very nocturnal and were nervous sleepers) actually asked me to LEAVE the room and let them get to sleep. I’ll never forget it.
I’m driving by their shop and the Grave Digger Diner tomorrow.
excellent. If it weren’t for Loo already taking down POTD with his excellent post confirmation this one would probably have won it
My sixteenth book; hoping to get to 20 before tombstone time: https://amzn.to/3jlfz2q
Say Pawlie, have you ever seen the movie “The Express” Starring Chadrick Bozeman?
True story about RB Ernie Davis back in 1961 as he starred at Syracuse and ended up winning the Heisman trophy during racism at its peak.Dennis Quaid played the Coach at Syracuse.Breakout movie for Bozeman before 42, and Black Panther..
Fun fact: Sean Doolittle, more or less the closer for the Nats last season, pitched 3 innings total in the 7 game World Series vs. the Astros, and got 1 save.
Was he the most important relief pitcher for the Nats in that series? A case could be made that he wasn’t.
Kapler might even be working toward having defined roles for pen–but I don’t think he is at all sure who can do what/when consistently. Gott obviously didn’t work out neither did Shaun Anderson and few others who got banished to Sacto or released. Maybe more guys like Garcia or Selman could grow into reliable 7th 8th inning guys, and 3 batter rule does matter and make it more complicated than Bochy era.
Relievers, closers especially, are such a crapshoot and often vary wildly from season to season. Handing out multi year deals for them often turns into disaster.
As deals go, Z&H may need to rob the piggy-bank in the off-season and pick up maybe two relievers who have steady records of solid performance. Generally, relievers are not too pricey and do not expect long-term contracts. A couple short contracts adding to maybe 20M over two years could make a definite difference in games won or lost.
I tried to watch some of the NBA playoffs this week, and I just couldn’t get into it. A lot of it is 5-OUT basketball, and I’m not much of a fan of what the NBA has evolved into. 5 guys out at the 3-point line, and someone drives to the basket and either finishes and maybe gets fouled, or kicks it out to someone to shoot a 3. Once in a while someone posts up and if they get the ball they take their man one-on-one to the basket, or hey, kick it out to someone for a 3, because there’s never enough 3-point shots.
I know I’ve said all this before, but I did give it another try this week.
They’ve emboldened “chuckers” everywhere…
Although I haven’t noticed 3 point lines in Brooklyn schoolyards and playgrounds…
One guy I wished the Giants kept around for their pen is Yuseimro (sp) Petit . Damm he was consistently good and still is for the A’s now.Hell he almost had a no-hitter for the Giants in a rare start.It could just be me but I don’t think teams like to give long term like even 3 year contracts to players from DR are other countries especially pitchers over an established everyday position player that’s a star.Guys like Blanco,Torres& Bernard the fighting midget hydrants always seemed to have to scrap for a roster spot on 1 year deals maybe 2?
As Stix would say “Use More Of” Petit…
Ahh!!! Relief! Just checked up on the top free agents for next season. Four of them are relievers. All of them are righties (where we’re a bit short) and each of them is 32 Y.O., so could hardly expect contracts of more than two years. Topping the list is Liam Hendrix, across the Bay. Blake Trienen, now with the LaBumbos ia next listed. Alex Colome’ of the White Sox has some pretty decent stats. Rounding out the higher possibilities is Shane Greene, currently with Los Bravos. Z & H should target one of those guys for sure and if asking price is not prohibitive, maybe a pair.
What would two solid bullies be worth in the W-L record? Probably no less than that $20M figure for two years as I cited at 3:27. Twenty holds for $20M, particularly in 2022 would not be a bad return. Get em while they’re hot.
if you guys want a wholesome twitter account to follow, give Vin a follow. Guy is the nicest damn guy in the world, he just films videos of himself telling stories. They’re Dodger stories which can be a little irritating but with all the toxicity on twitter it’s cool to take a break and listen to a guy who’s just a really nice guy
As soon as Twitter alerted me, I watched his inaugural/intro video and followed Vin Scully. I believe he is what Holden Caulfield would call a prince.
BHam caught stealing third with no out in 9th and Mets down 7-6 to Yanks. What a fucking idiot.
He just a novelty player now..Another Herb Washington,Darren Ford,and others with speed and nothing else.And really in the age of nobody stealing, why keep a roster spot for 1 dimensional players?
Hamilton will be cut soon, Mark my words..
Can’t miss ball game at The Big O on Saturday
as Madison Bumgarner takes the bump for the 1st time
against the Giants as a D-Back..6:15 starting time! Giants pitcher the famous
TBD later…
Giants will cuff him around some…
Too bad he won’t get the ovation he deserves.
Woulda been a big night out there…
Agree. Like SanDawg, I’m sorry he’s gone, even though of course it was for the best.
I miss him. Yeah, his best days are likely behind him but I miss him. I hope he does well but not against SF.
Yes Craig, that is pretty funny in a pathetic sort of way that I applauded Loo’s Grave Duggar nickname 2 years ago and then threw him under the bus saying I thought it was Kat’s. But actually, I don’t remember that from 2 years ago. That was 2 years ago already?? I’m not sure I even remember Duggar being on the team that long. Kat used it recently (this season*) and I obviously mistakenly thought that was the first time for it. So, big apologies to Loo for the incorrect attribution. But I’ll stand by what I said *2 years ago*: Good one! I think Corona lockdown fried my brain. I need some excuse….
No apology necessary, Paul.
I’m sure you have many more important things on your mind.
Obviously, I don’t…
I wish I could attribute it to many more important things on my mind…..
Sweet: Just learned Andrew Heaney of the Halos (with a tiddle of relief help) shut out the Friar Tuckers 2-0,besting S.D.’s hot new pickup, Clevinger.
Flavor: You can create and preview your Grave Duggar jersey here:
https://tinyurl.com/yxl35nvt
the greatest nickname of all time AND researching where to get the jersey done? You’ve earned your flaps today my man, you have earned your flaps……
brilliant
Vin must be feeling it. Opie is no hitting AZ through 5. High pitch count 84, so see how long Roberts keeps him in there.
A bummer no fans to cheer MadBum his 1st game back. I agee with Craig it was good not to spend the $$ on him, but I will forever be greatful for his being a Giant. Pence a hero? as we discussed earlier..yes. Cain, Timmy..Bum out lasted them all and was spectacular in all 3 in 5!
Yeah, mad respect for Mad Bum. Saw him pitch a bunch of times, and his games were mostly all wins. Saw one HR as well. He is one of the best, but he is not what he once was, and to pay him now would have been foolish and something the old regime would have done.