A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

Some Graves Get Dug Deeper Than Others

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on March 10, 2021

Some nice action with the bats yesterday from some of our more preferred fringe players. Chuck pointed out that the wind was blowing out and WilleD noted that the Arizona air skews the hitting stat to which I reply “what would you rather have, them hitting in those conditions or not hitting in those conditions?” Because if you can’t hit in optimal conditions (and there were several Giants yesterday who couldn’t included Lame-onte) then that’s worse than the guys who were raking, right? We like guys who rake?

These were Daniel’s questions for his Playing Pepper series. SF Giants piece goes up March 16th.

1) Baseball in 2020 was like nothing we’ve ever seen before.  What are your thoughts on that season?  Did you like the rule changes? How was following baseball the same or different during the pandemic?
2) Former Cardinal John Brebbia is going to be part of the Giants this year.  When is he expected to be ready and what are your thoughts about the club adding him?
3) Joey Bart got to make his debut when Buster Posey sat out the pandemic season, but now Posey is back.  What does this mean for the young catcher and what impact will he have at the big league level this year?
4) What is the most pressing need of this club right now?
5) What is your expectation for this team this coming season?
6) Overall, what sort of grade would you give this organization and why?

41 Responses

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  1. Bozo said, on March 10, 2021 at 6:18 am

    The Brewers ended SF scoring opportunities at least 3 times using the 25 pitch rule. That HR by Ramos was a monster shot. It is good to have the hits, even the wind aided ones, but IMO that wasn’t a very entertaining game to watch.
    Susan Slusser tweeted these 2 quotes from the managers –
    Kapler: “We did not play a good baseball game today. … There are a lot of fundamental things we need to clean up.”
    Craig Counsell: “We saw all around this was not a good baseball game.” Tough wind a factor. “I’m done with the wind,” he says.

    • Flavor said, on March 10, 2021 at 6:31 am

      i didn’t see the game but I heard we played terribly. Still, it’s spring and I celebrate anything anyone on the team does well. Ramos and Grave Duggar raked yesterday, good for them

  2. gianthead said, on March 10, 2021 at 7:02 am

    My only partial comments for the Card blog m reverse:

    6) Grade: Incomplete…will be graded next year.
    5) Low 70s for wins…75 seems upper reach. .500 would be a surprising and solid season with the talent we have.
    4) We have been craving a right-handed slugger since 2015 but Ramos may be able to play that role soon and there is an opportunity to add a couple of free agent bats for next year. The most pressing need is upper tier starting arms in the org pipeline because there wont be any likely big-time free agents for next season.

  3. unca_chuck said, on March 10, 2021 at 8:52 am

    Yeah, hitting beats not hitting, but it still doesn’t mean a hell of a lot when it comes to the regular season. Yeah, I’d rather see the young players at the expense of the Bour Cour but we all know this isn’t gonna happen.

    I’d like to think these guys are gonna play the vets early to try and generate trade interest and dump as many as they can by the deadline. Or they suck and they simply DFA them. That isn’t likely but it is possible.

    They are hedging their bets and hoping for the best. I think the hitting will hold up enough to get the team to 80 wins.

    1) Rule changes? Meh. 3-pitcher rule wasn’t as bad as I thought, but the runner at 2nd rule is hideous, don’t want the DH in the NL either.

    2) Brebbia? Really? He’s a middling reliever. Not thrilled but he’s a guy.

    3) Bart will hopefully have zero impact n the big league team, unless Posey goes down. Bart needs to play AAA ball, not get spot starts in the bigs.

    4) The most pressing need is to dump the Bour Cour. Work in the younger players as the season winds down.

    5) I think the team hits decently and pitches decently. 80 wins. Barring injuries.

    6) Grade? B. Again, they are playing the edges against the middle until they sort out the vets. For the hand that Farhan has been dealt, he is doing a bang-up job. The farm system has gone from the bottom to near the top in a very short time. Granted, this don’t mean shit if the guys they have don’t pan out, but what else do we have to go on? The moves being made to fill the roster are stop-gap measures that don’t hamstring the team in a couple years when they want to make some big-dollar signings.

    • unca_chuck said, on March 10, 2021 at 8:58 am

      And yes, having baseball was nice, and the team surprised me with their hitting. Mr. Kotter had a rough start but the players bought into his philosophy and played hard if not sound baseball.

  4. sandog said, on March 10, 2021 at 8:56 am

    1. I thought 2020 season was decent. Did not get into it as much as usual, but it was nice to have at least some baseball.
    2. Don’t know anything about Brebbia. Seems like we brought in tons of relievers and are just gonna see who looks good and go from there. Does he have a minor league option left? If not, he better be pretty damn solid or I doubt he’ll be around long.
    3. Less AB’s for Bart this year, maybe some time back in the minors. Pretty overmatched last year, so I’m totally fine with less MLB action for him this year.
    4. We need talent overall, but biggest need is talented starting pitching.
    5. 77 wins. I think we have a collection of vets that know how to play and will keep the team out of last place.
    6. I give the organization a B. Love the fiscal restraint as these long term contracts drop off the books. Better days are coming. Farm system is improving. Some good bargain players have been found. Only major complaint is the handling of Jaylin Davis last year.

  5. chipower9 said, on March 10, 2021 at 9:25 am

    1. I thought, considering the situation (pandemic, etc.) that the season was decent, and probably exceeded my expectations. I loved the way the team was able to rally for Ws…something this team has not done much of lately.
    2. I know absolutely nothing about Brebbia. When you have like 100 pitchers (actually forty-something) in camp…WTF is one more.
    3. I would prefer to see Bart start at AAA, and based on how Posey performs or doesn’t, and how Bart is doing in the minors, then make a decision on the best way forward.
    4. Agree with SanD that the most glaring need right now is starters. The bullpen will get defined as ST proceeds.
    5. I am going 78 with the wins. Will be interesting to see if the vets can produce any semblance of what they did last year. Belt is still a mystery. Also, Longoria’s plantar faciitis is problematic right now. Read in a recent “Athletic” article that Dubon will start at 3rd today (has 80-some starts there in the minors) LaStella and Vosler also options if Longo can’t go.
    6. I give management a B for now. Some good pick-ups. The farm has improved measurably, and as SanD stated, I like the financial prudence until the contracts drop this year. I like the direction overall.

  6. Winder said, on March 10, 2021 at 9:40 am

    1. I was glad we had a season at all. Didn’t like the rule changes but I do think the game is a little faster by not changing pitchers so often. Thought the runner at second was ridiculous. Was surprisingly ok with the DH. Was always ready for the season to be called off.
    2. I had never heard of Brebbia so I have no clue.
    3. I don’t think Bart will have much of any impact on the league this year. He starts the year in the minors.
    4. Not sure yet. i like the philosophy of having patience at the plate and not striking out so much. i think we make way to many errors and that will kill us in a lot of games. We need to have a team wide attitude and never give up. Pitching.
    5. 75 wins
    6. I would like to give this answer another year. I like the way we have drafted for the most part so far. We are hamstrung with certain contracts and since it isn’t my money I wish we would let more youngsters play this year. I do think Posey is gonna be very valuable. Grade B-

  7. chipower9 said, on March 10, 2021 at 11:26 am

    Forgot to mention the rule changes. I don’t like any of them: 3 minimum batter minimum per pitcher, runner on 2nd in extra inning games, and I have always (and remain) adamantly against the DH (I know it is probably just a matter of time before it happens in the NL…but the DH, more than anything, totally fucks-up the game, IMO).

  8. xoot said, on March 10, 2021 at 11:27 am

    1. Baseball was one of the few good things in 2020. The three-batter rule is ok. The DH is coming whether we like it or not. The gratuitous 2B runner and the 7 inning games are terrible.
    2. Brebbia is far down the long list of SF pitchers I’m interested in.
    3. Bart showed a major league arm. Otherwise, his game was disappointing. A mid-season call up seems unlikely. If Posey has a decent 2021, I think SF will exercise its team option for 2022. If Posey’s done, catcher will be a problem spot. Patrick Bailey, the catcher the new regime drafted in the first round last year (out of college), may show something in this, his first, minor league season.
    4. Young multi-tool players.
    5. Right now, 72 wins. But with this front office things change quickly.
    6. B. The new front office is very smart and astonishingly active. The farm system improved quickly. Covid slowed rebuilding (it made no sense to go all in this winter, like San Diego). I have faith in the future. On the corporate side, the controlling owner said in an interview about a week ago that the team went into debt to finance last year. He also said that their general annual goal is to break even, while the value of the franchise rises. He’s a very slick CEO type. It wouldn’t be smart to believe everything he says. But it sure sounds like the new front office is on a budget until revenue revives. Under these circumstances, they’re doing well, rebuilding slowly, biding time. I won’t be surprised to see moves during the season increase the win total and bump this up to a B+.

    • blade3colorado said, on March 10, 2021 at 11:56 am

      Best comments here today . . . I agree emphatically with your #6 Xoot.

  9. alleykat69 said, on March 10, 2021 at 12:24 pm

    1) Getting to play some baseball was better then I expected with the pandemic and knowing really not what do do and sort of winging it all.Pitchers throwing to 3 batters I was ok with that, keeps the flow of the game going better ( which of course would of drove Bochy crazy with his days of Javy&Jeremy one batter specialists)oh that runner on second base to start extra innings was the dumbest thing ever!
    2) Really what is a Brebbia? I thought it was a sidekick character for Jabba the Hut in Star Wars..
    3)Bart needs plenty of AB’s and still defense could use improvement.He sometimes seems nonchalant and not totally in the game, especially if he’s struggling offensively.Still he might get a callup mid season if Posey (age&injuries) are Casilli ( I believe he’s coming off hambate surgery) struggles..
    4) Agree with both Chuck,Chi&SanDog on different points. Need to play less of the bore core( hell they’re already hurt some (Belt, heel and other assorted injuries, Longo, plantar facistas which he even dealt with last year, so this will be a all season thing on and off)
    Pitching!! Especially the Starters!!!Bullpen I’m actually excited there is a shitload to choose from both LH&RH and many throw 97 plus and young if they get a crack..
    5)74 wins just cause of the SP..
    6) Right now Zman has done a superb job of taking over an organization that was in desperate need of an overhaul, and he started with the Farm System which was neglected to the point of being one of the worst in baseball and now it’s top 10 and rising!
    He knows he was in a Star Trek situation Kobe Maru, “No win Scenario’ when it came to the Bore Core albatross contracts, so he’s just going to ride them out this year, but next year watch out, they will be spenders maybe more then other teams with tons of money coming off the books!
    Grade a Solid B

  10. Flavor said, on March 10, 2021 at 2:27 pm

    HOFer Gary Steven takes a swipe at California’s idiotic whip rules……

  11. Flavor said, on March 10, 2021 at 2:28 pm

    it’s interesting to see all of your answers to Daniel’s questions. There’s definitely some overlap with what I submitted yesterday.

  12. willedav said, on March 10, 2021 at 2:51 pm

    1. It was great to see baseball complete a season and Giants were fun and exceeded expectations. Their offense ranked in top half of league for lot of stats and they scored runs. All good. Think 3 batter min rule hurts mgr. 7 innings for 2 is OK–more doubleheader not split are fine.
    2. Brebbia will surely get look see and we can only hope he can contribute once healthy. Roster spots for pen guys will likely be fluid situation. As fangraphs guy said of Giants approach, “spaghetti, meet wall.”
    3. Bart needs to show more development, as Zaidi said before he was brought up last year out of necessity. September call up. C should be competently handled by Posey and Casalli. If Bart hits could be trade chip.
    4. Starting pitching. Reclamation projects from last year did work and there are more of them around. Should there be any successes really hope a couple could be re-signed for next season along with Webb and Beede.
    Giants aren’t going anywhere until they get better starters and can lower runs and homeruns given up.
    5. 78 seems right and success will be determined if offense can score enough runs to offset pitching woes
    6. B seems like fair grade given FO isn’t going to spend money until revenue comes back. At same time, the vet contracts I do not see as major issue–it’s the fact Giants don’t yet have enough good players to take place of the vets. Get better players for the IF, make a firm decision on a CF, and find more pitching value.

  13. James said, on March 10, 2021 at 3:15 pm

    1. After a three-year fade, the 2020 season revived my interest in the team. I missed going to the ballpark. The DH won me over, maybe because it seems to work in SF’s favor, especially with the current roster. Oddly, none of the 7-inning games conveyed anything like a welcome alternative to the 3 hour plus slog — they just felt truncated and not quite real.

    2. He is the only Brebbia in ML history.

    3. I love that they drafted Bailey, and not necessarily because I expect Bart to be a complete wash.

    4. I don’t know if there’s a pressing need right now. Next year, they’ll need better free agent signings than Longoria.

    5. They will maintain my renewed interest over the year.

    6. What Xoot said, except I’d give them an A-.

    • James said, on March 10, 2021 at 3:28 pm

      I guess Longo was acquired in a trade. I’ll amend it to “they need to spend the big $$$ on players who improve the team.”

  14. willedav said, on March 10, 2021 at 3:19 pm

    Krukow has talked about Arizona HRs for long time. You have to take them with large grain of salt, not as reliable indicator of anything. Stand by what I said earlier–99% of ST numbers are meaningless. Also what happens is bored local beat writers that have to have a story pump anyone that does well–puro fluff.

    Vet hitters don’t care they just want to get swings in regardless of results and so do pitchers who just want to regain arm strength or work on a pitch or two and stretch out pitches thrown. If they get guys out, fine, if not it’s an “eh.”
    Hey get excited if you want, imo it’s not real baseball and lot of guys playing now won’t be near ML rosters Opening Day, which is a good thing.

  15. willedav said, on March 10, 2021 at 4:17 pm

    College b-ball by contrast is real, right now. League Tourneys are great, everyone battling to get in to Big Dance.
    Btw, sounds like fans in stands will definitely be happening here and elsewhere. Minor leagues will be month behind. Wonder who will be where, prospects and um those unfortunate enough to make Giants roster.

  16. djloo27 said, on March 10, 2021 at 4:35 pm

    Once upon a time, the football Giants went 6-0 in preseason.
    The fan base was delirious.
    I think they went 1-13 in the regular season…

    • djloo27 said, on March 10, 2021 at 4:42 pm

      Make that 2-11-1 (1973)…


    • Macdog said, on March 10, 2021 at 10:27 pm

      First two games were at Yankee Stadium, their final games in the Bronx. Won the opener over the lousy Oilers, then tied the Eagles, a team the Giants put up 62 against the previous season. It went downhill from there, playing the rest of their home games and all of ’74 at the Yale Bowl to make matters worse.

  17. Flavor said, on March 10, 2021 at 4:47 pm

    that’s quite a family of MLB stars Clemson has churned out.

    • alleykat69 said, on March 10, 2021 at 5:39 pm

      Which Star has Clemson produced?
      All these guys have turned out to be bums.
      All give the consolation prize to Duggar being the best of the worse if that matters much..

      • Flavor said, on March 10, 2021 at 6:19 pm

        that was the joke, Kat

  18. willedav said, on March 10, 2021 at 5:34 pm

    Austin Carr is 73 today. Walton was just talking about him setting record he still holds of 61 in Tournament game.

  19. djloo27 said, on March 10, 2021 at 6:20 pm

    Great thread title, BTW.
    Would you ever have imagined that 10+ years ago?

  20. xoot said, on March 10, 2021 at 6:23 pm

    The crux of Daniel’s #6 we all think about all the time, even when we’re focused on more important things, like actual baseball. But Daniel asked about “the organization.” On one hand, the owners hired Farhan and gave him the keys. On the other, there was some sort of short-term, tight budget even in the winter of 2018. Hard to fault, but hard to love, too. I don’t know if anyone other than The Athletic subscribers can access this Baggarly interview of Greg Johnson, but I recommend it for its insight into the corporate structure and the alleged “separation of church and state” between the owners and the FO, for its description of Baer’s current role, and for more. Good stuff, with high spin rate. The section about Greg’s father’s political donations that generated notoriety is interesting, but a minor part of the whole. https://tinyurl.com/8r36brdu

  21. Flavor said, on March 10, 2021 at 6:39 pm

    Thrill was one of a kind.

    • djloo27 said, on March 10, 2021 at 6:46 pm

      Must be great to drink with…

  22. Flavor said, on March 10, 2021 at 7:02 pm

    at least a couple of names noticeably absent…..

  23. zumiee said, on March 10, 2021 at 7:04 pm

    “Texas Rangers to allow full-capacity crowd at home opener vs. Blue Jays”

    • alleykat69 said, on March 10, 2021 at 7:27 pm

      For which I say..Don’t mess with Texas.Are everything is big in Texas.. Still stupid though to do this if this really does happen..

  24. mrsprtdude said, on March 10, 2021 at 8:44 pm

    1) Baseball in 2020 was like nothing we’ve ever seen before. What are your thoughts on that season? Did you like the rule changes? How was following baseball the same or different during the pandemic? 2020? Giants were fun to watch. Close games. Comebacks. In the race till the end. DH? I liked it. 7 inning games? I got it, but lame. Like the expanded playoffs. Join the new century and let more teams in!

    2) Former Cardinal John Brebbia… No clue

    3) Bart will be in the minors. A bust. No way a guy who was drafted to hit and catch as the # 2 pick could be so bad at both. We missed the palyoffs because he sucked at hitting and or blew a few games with his inability to play catcher!

    4) Starting pitching. An Ace.

    5) What is your expectation for this team this coming season? 78 wins, because I’m an optimist. Belt starts strong and gets traded.

    6) Overall, what sort of grade would you give this organization and why? B Farm system has improved a lot, but no way they can get close to an A until a prospect actually makes an impact. 10 plus years and counting since we had a prospect be an impact player on the national scene. Yes Brandon’s were good for us for a while, but really none since Timmy, Bum, Posey.

  25. zumiee said, on March 10, 2021 at 8:55 pm

    Bart’s WAR ended up being .3 last season. Sabermetrics say he didn’t cost the Giants even 1 game.

    • xoot said, on March 10, 2021 at 9:16 pm

      Didn’t Cueto’s refusal to pitch to him in the second half save him some liability?

      • zumiee said, on March 10, 2021 at 10:52 pm

        Cueto’s WAR was .1 last season. 🙂

  26. djloo27 said, on March 10, 2021 at 9:17 pm

    I plugged Steven Duggar into the online anagram maker because what else would I be doing?
    My favorite one:
    Dug Ten Graves

    • zumiee said, on March 10, 2021 at 10:47 pm

  27. Bozo said, on March 11, 2021 at 7:16 am

    djloo27 said, on March 10, 2021 at 6:46 pm (Edit)
    Must be great to drink with…

    I agree and I think Will probably did a fair amount of drinking in his prime. Back in the 80s, many New Orleans bars that I went into had signed bats, balls and Giants gear.

  28. willedav said, on March 11, 2021 at 7:24 am

    Bart might not have cost Giants games, but he was definitely a liability, as were Tromp and Heinemann, btw lack of offense and all the catcher interference calls. Never seen so many, ever, in such short period of time.
    Despite nonsense from Free Bart! crowd, turns out Zaidi and Kapler were right along–wasn’t ready yet.

    Padres upgraded their C by acquiring solid players and dumping off the D first/can’t break Mendoza line at plate prospect bust Hedges.
    Dodgers C unfortunately are solid–Smith has 2 seasons of .900 OPS already and Barnes is capable back up.
    Barnes came over in super trade with Marlins along with kike Hernandez for Dee Gordon and Dan Haren

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