A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

We’re 1-0 With Me In Oregon

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on July 8, 2021

Only saw the box score but it was a nice one to see…..nobody wears masks up here, it’s wild…..heading to a Portland Pickles baseball game tonight which should be interesting….

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  1. zumiee said, on July 8, 2021 at 8:35 am

    “Mask-it or casket” never took off as a saying as big as “Click-it or ticket.”

  2. Flavor said, on July 8, 2021 at 8:43 am

    still doing a slow burn over San Dawg beating me in that Harvey bet from a few years ago. Dude staggered into that win and then literally fell apart right after.

    • gianthead said, on July 8, 2021 at 12:18 pm

      Can you say Jake Arrieta???

  3. Macdog said, on July 8, 2021 at 8:45 am

    Have fun, Flav. I looked up the Pickles, they play in the West Coast League, a collegiate summer league. The Pickles face the Cowlitz (Wash.) Black Bears tonight.

    • Flavor said, on July 8, 2021 at 8:55 am

      oooohhh sounds like an arch rival game. Can’t wait. I might get a hat.

      • zumiee said, on July 8, 2021 at 10:06 am


  4. alleykat69 said, on July 8, 2021 at 9:21 am

    Might as well get alittle pickled as well Flav!
    Enjoy the game and your continual road trip adventures!

  5. willedav said, on July 8, 2021 at 9:48 am

    One of the 5 pitchers on Ray’s who combined for 7 inning no no vs. Tribe yesterday was M Wisler, one inning of work.

    • zumiee said, on July 8, 2021 at 10:10 am

      His mother must have been proud.
      Oh that joke never gets old.
      (Spoiler alert: the joke gets old.)

  6. snarkk said, on July 8, 2021 at 10:27 am

    This 7 inning no-hitter stuff is ridiculous.
    There must he hundreds if not thousands of those over the history of MLB…

    • zumiee said, on July 8, 2021 at 10:42 am

      MLB doesn’t count them as real no-hitters, but they count them as shut-outs, which is kind of odd logic.

      • snarkk said, on July 8, 2021 at 10:51 am

        Yeah, zum, I know they don’t officially count.
        So, I don’t understand why media even mentions them…

      • xoot said, on July 8, 2021 at 12:44 pm

        I think a fairly common incentive clause in SP contracts is number of games finished. A shutout is defined as a complete game. I wonder if nonshutout seven inning games are.

  7. snarkk said, on July 8, 2021 at 10:57 am

    Needed, good win last night. Stopped the bleeding.
    Looks like Wood’s slider is back, and that’s a good thing.
    Maybe he found some new sticky stuff.
    I still shiver more than a bit when Rogers and Mr. McGoo come in. Rogers seems to generate dinks and dunks and topped balls for infield hits that generate baserunners, there’s rarely a clean inning from this guy. He doesn’t give up HRs, so that’s huge.
    Nats coming in are playing well, looks like SF will need to score more to take the series…

  8. alleykat69 said, on July 8, 2021 at 11:17 am

    Atleast they don’t have Schwaber available another in the line of Muncy,Arrando, Goldschmidt killers they have to deal with.Though Juan Soto is obviously dangerous along with just getting Trea Turner back from IL..

  9. chipower9 said, on July 8, 2021 at 12:11 pm

    Nice win last night and the team needed it. Bums are up 6-1 in the 9th over the Fish. Nats and Padres go later.

    Enjoy your time in Oregon, Flav. I am with Kat…why not get a little pickled, and I would definitely be looking to score a lid.

  10. gianthead said, on July 8, 2021 at 12:17 pm

    The Richmond Squirrels are playing in Bowie MD for a 6 game set and Heliot tied Game 2 last night late and they won in 10. Was thinking of going tonight but hot as hell and remnants of that hurricane may rain it out tonight.

  11. alleykat69 said, on July 8, 2021 at 12:18 pm

    Chi of course that lid could also mean 4 fingers of pot…

    • Winder said, on July 8, 2021 at 1:00 pm

      Oregon is loaded with it. Everyone and their mothers are growing it.

    • chipower9 said, on July 8, 2021 at 3:09 pm

      LMAO…It did not even cross my mind. Lid (for weed) is going waaayyy back.

  12. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2021 at 1:08 pm

    Funny, I went right to pot on that ref. Being in Orygun and all.

  13. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2021 at 1:09 pm

    Wait what? It took 5 pitchers to go 7 innings?

  14. djloo27 said, on July 8, 2021 at 1:52 pm

    Dean Chance pitched a 5 inning rain shortened “perfect game” back in 1967.
    They took the PG away from him many years later but I believe he was still credited with a CG and a shutout according to B/R…


    • xoot said, on July 8, 2021 at 1:58 pm

      $100 bonus

    • willedav said, on July 8, 2021 at 2:59 pm

      Dean Chance was really good pitcher for quite awhlle, always liked him. Impressive lineup he shut down that day too.

      • willedav said, on July 8, 2021 at 3:00 pm

        btw his full name according to B/R–Wilmer Dean Chance

      • djloo27 said, on July 8, 2021 at 3:04 pm

        Wilmer is really my favorite Giant.
        The Grave Duggar is more of a strange obsession…

      • xoot said, on July 8, 2021 at 3:11 pm

        Yaz referred to him as “Flo” in pg interview last night.

  15. Macdog said, on July 8, 2021 at 2:25 pm

    Brewers starter Brett Anderson pitched four shutout innings vs. the Mets last night but didn’t get the win after leaving with the lead. Of course, that wouldn’t be enough in a 9-inning game, but this was a 7-inning second game of a doubleheader. Seems to me the standard for a winning pitcher should be shortened if it’s 7 innings.

    • djloo27 said, on July 8, 2021 at 2:57 pm

      You’re right, Mac…

      4 innings is 57.1% of a 7 inning game.
      5 innings is 55.6% of a 9 inning game.

  16. Irish Kevin said, on July 8, 2021 at 3:36 pm

    The Athletic, Grant Brisbee

    A common recurring dream for a lot of people is a feeling of not being able to do something. Can’t run fast, can’t talk, can’t throw a punch, can’t find your lucky necklace, etc. You know instinctively that you’re capable of doing this task, but in your dream you … just … can’t … do it.

    On Tuesday night, the Giants had that dream again. Cardinals reliever Genesis Cabrera committed a grave bullpen sin, walking the tying run into scoring position and putting the winning run on with nobody out. The Giants had a great chance to tie the game, and their win probability actually crept above 50 percent with the walk. And they … just … couldn’t … do it. The Giants were hitless for the rest of the inning.

    This has become a thing, perhaps. The Giants were 3-for-16 with runners in scoring position on Tuesday (.188), and that’s actually something of an improvement for them lately. Over their last 80 at-bats with runners in scoring position, the Giants have just 14 hits (.175). They had more success the series before that, but that was against the Diamondbacks at Oracle Park, which probably doesn’t count. The Giants are living the dream, except it’s the wrong kind of dream. It’s the other kind.

    Is this the new identity of the 2021 Giants? Are they a team that’s going to be above average at getting runners on, but below average when it comes to getting them in?


    But, also, maybe. At least for a little bit.

    I can explain.

    First, take a trip back to the late-’90s/early-’00s, when statheads had baseball figured out. There were no more mysteries, no room for discussion. Baseball was solved, and everyone on the internet was very eager to tell you about it. One of the most dogmatic beliefs back then was that clutch hitting didn’t exist. Full stop. You weren’t supposed to mention clutch hitting unless it was in the same sentence as “Loch Ness Monster.”

    There was a lack of statistical evidence for clutch hitting, as Bill James pointed out, and there was a logical way to make the case while keeping the humanity of baseball players intact. There was a response to the “baseball players aren’t robots” counter-argument that came up often. The pool of 780 players currently on an MLB roster at any given time is a self-selecting one. By virtue of being in the exclusive major-league club, these players have already made it through several pressure situations, by definition. They aced their high school tryouts, performed well in front of scouts while in college, thrived under minor-league conditions, did well enough to advance and advance several more times, all against some of the best baseball players in the world. If they didn’t have the keep-it-cool or thrive-under-pressure gene, they wouldn’t be in the majors.

    Logical. Sensible. But maybe a little too all-encompassing. It’s definitely possible for a player to A) be talented enough to make the major leagues while B) also being a little jittery in clutch situations. This doesn’t mean that there’s a sub-class of player that panics every time there’s a runner on second base, but that it’s possible that the chemicals and neurological wiring change just enough to mess with a player’s ability to perform exactly how they normally would. It might make them (x) percent better or worse, and (x) doesn’t have to be a big number at all.

    So the sabermetric orthodoxy changed to “OK, maybe clutch hitting exists, but we can’t measure it statistically with any confidence.” For the most part, this is where it remains. It’s possible that a player can exhibit some sort of skill (or lack thereof) when it comes to hitting under pressure, but it’s unlikely to be an effect that’s so significant, it’s visible in small sample sizes over a period of several seasons.

    Things change a bit when it comes to teams, though. The samples, while still small, get bigger. More than that, now there’s a group-related pressure, which is something that wouldn’t have to affect a self-selecting pool of MLB players. Russell Carleton wrote about what happens when a collective unit starts to struggle, and while he was referring to a bullpen — specifically, the 2016 Giants — it can also apply to a lineup that’s scuffling in clutch situations:

    There probably are places where we are too quick to see a pattern in randomness in baseball (and life), and there are probably things commonly chalked up to “team chemistry” that are just the random number generator having its way with our emotions. But we need to be careful not to dismiss all of them out of hand. In this case, there’s likely something to be said for some sort of systemic effect.

    If a team keeps failing with runners in scoring position, every batter on the team is aware of these failures. And while they don’t have to hide under their batting helmet like extremely compact armadillos, the stakes for every subsequent RISP opportunity change. Maybe there’s an overeagerness to become the player who gets his team out of the funk. It would work in the other direction, too. The aphorism “Hitting is contagious” isn’t so cutesy when it’s actually happening.

    This kind of effect would still be very, very difficult to measure, even at the team level. It’s certainly possible that the Giants could keep struggling with RISP in the short term, but that doesn’t mean you should expect it, and it certainly doesn’t mean we can quantify it. Still, a snowballing effect wouldn’t be out of the question. It’s simply human nature, especially when it comes to groups.

    Except “snowballing effect” is a little strong, as it evokes an image of a boulder-sized sphere tumbling down a mountain. A better example might be a teeter-totter. There are scientific, tangible reasons why the teeter-totter continues to move in one direction, but there are also limits as to how far it can go. There’s also almost certainly going to be a correction in the other direction, a regression to the mean.

    And Giants fans can be confident that the regression to the mean is coming because they’ve watched it for most of the season.

    2021 Giants with the bases empty: .244/.324/.414

    2021 Giants with runners in scoring position: .247/.337/.447

    Even with their recent struggles, the Giants have been better overall with runners in scoring position. If this surprises you, that’s recency bias at work. It’s not just the Giants, either, because the league has an OPS that’s 48 points higher with RISP. Which is a good sign that clutch hitting is the default, not a special, rare ability. When runners are in scoring position, pitchers are at a disadvantage. The Giants will start driving the ball with runners in scoring position because that’s the likeliest scenario for any team.

    In the meantime, maybe the hitters will keep screwing up because they’re all in their own heads, but even in that extreme, every team is always a 4-for-8 night away from a hard reset back to that default. If the Giants are suffering from some sort of clutch contagion — a huge if — it doesn’t take months of work to get rid of it. It might only take an hour or two.

    Which means it’s one of the best problems a baseball team can have, really. When a team keeps getting hurt, that’s a problem with a thousand potential factors, and it doesn’t have to get fixed. When a team doesn’t hit the ball at all, that might be a lack of talent, and it’s not likely to get better on its own.

    When a team doesn’t hit with runners in scoring position, there doesn’t have to be a reason for it, and the solution is just to wait around and hope things get better. Which sounds like me in my 20s, and that actually worked out. So while RISP struggles aren’t fun to watch while they’re happening — and while it’s certainly reasonable to wonder if the problems are self-perpetuating, at least in the short term — this is almost certainly just One of Those Things™.

    If a team hits well, it will usually hit even better with runners in scoring position. Right now, the Giants have the best OPS in the league, even without adjusting for Oracle Park. They’ll probably hit even better with runners in scoring position, too. Eventually. Maybe not today, and maybe not tomorrow, but soon. It’s the simplest explanation, and we don’t have any reason to think this year’s team is an outlier.

    • willedav said, on July 8, 2021 at 4:21 pm

      Frisbee, whose entire column could have been boiled down to final 2 paragraphs. But that would have ruined his opportunity to ramble on nonsensically, which what he does best. Unfortunate that his counterpart for Giants columns in Athletic is wonderful Baggs. Anyone would suffer by comparison. Brisbee, if he were an English football team, would be relegated to lower division. Athletic could so easily do better.
      Look at it this way–giants have been doing well enough to get runners into scoring position in first place. Hits will come.

      • James said, on July 8, 2021 at 4:31 pm

        Yes, a lot of pointless equivocation and “nuance” to arrive at Bill James is still right.

      • xoot said, on July 8, 2021 at 4:38 pm

        He thinks his vapid, bouncy prose charms readers. Baggarly is infinitely better.

      • djloo27 said, on July 8, 2021 at 5:16 pm

        My A.D.D. kicked in around paragraph 5…

  17. zumiee said, on July 8, 2021 at 3:52 pm

    Big earthquake felt in California Central Valley.

    • alleykat69 said, on July 8, 2021 at 4:34 pm

      Dang didn’t feel a thing and I wanted my martini 🍸 more shaken then stirred.

      • zumiee said, on July 8, 2021 at 4:55 pm

        It was actually a cluster of several different earthquakes. One in the Central Valley, and several in the Eastern Sierra. I only felt the Central Valley one.
        Chi and Blade, you guys OK??

      • zumiee said, on July 8, 2021 at 5:05 pm

        Actually, pretty far South of Chi and Blade.

      • zumiee said, on July 8, 2021 at 5:12 pm

        I meant “East.”

  18. snarkk said, on July 8, 2021 at 5:22 pm

    USGS now saying there was one quake.
    Richter at 5.9. That’s a pretty big shaker if you’re in the immediate area.
    With epiC about 30 miles SE of South Lake Tahoe on the CA/NV border area. I felt it here in the Ebay, kind of an undulating, pretty mild one. Still fairly noticeable with the epiC being 175+ miles away.
    Usual swarm of aftershocks after it, in the 3-4 range.

    • Flavor said, on July 8, 2021 at 5:59 pm

      my buddy dave in Reno, PaSalon, said it shook him good.

  19. Flavor said, on July 8, 2021 at 6:01 pm

    i am NEVER is the Bay Area for earthquakes. Loma Prieta i was in oRegon at Lewis and Clark. Today, I’m in Oregon and i was at Lewis and Clark earlier today. Hmmmmm……connection? Honestly earthquakes in Ca are totally overblown at least where I live. The last really good one I felt was in 1986 (granted I missed a few of them when I was out of town, but still)

  20. snarkk said, on July 8, 2021 at 6:50 pm

    I imagine Chi and blade got a pretty good shake…

    • snarkk said, on July 8, 2021 at 7:04 pm

      Normally, I think the NY Post is a joke, but good article there.
      MLB games in person have turned into a rip off, and one that gets more boring all the time with the dearth of offense. $16 ales are beyond the pale for me. I can get two pints of just as good or better ales for that at the my local brew pub, watch the game, garlic fries are cheaper, hotter and less soggy — and the men’s room is 20 steps away. Of course, I forsake the chance to be accosted on BART by a guy who should be getting mental health care or ear assaulted with deafening music by dudes dancing/threatening for $. Not to mention the chance to get my cell phone stolen under threat of bodily harm.
      I’ve no plans yet to go to a Giants game this season…

      • xoot said, on July 8, 2021 at 7:13 pm

        I sort of like the beautiful topless Russian women who walk thru the trains panhandling as they pretend to breast feed a contented looking baby.

      • snarkk said, on July 8, 2021 at 7:14 pm

        I’ve not been so lucky…

      • djloo27 said, on July 8, 2021 at 7:15 pm

        Snarkk, this guy Mushnick has been writing variations of the same article for decades, but it’s usually good stuff.
        As far as not attending a Giant game this season, would a Flapalooza with a special East coast guest change your mind? The good news is it ain’t me. That is all I am at liberty to say at this time…

      • zumiee said, on July 8, 2021 at 7:15 pm

        I have a beef with the super-long All Star break. The players like it, but it grinds the season to a big long halt. Fans having to wait until Friday until their team’s season restarts is not good marketing for the sport.

      • snarkk said, on July 8, 2021 at 7:33 pm

        For a Flapalooza, I would even tolerate two BART rides with topless Russian hotties parading around in my car.
        As long as they are wearing face masks…

    • unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2021 at 7:12 pm

      Thanks.Haven’t read Mushnick in quite a while. Entertaining as always.

  21. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2021 at 6:59 pm

    Barely a shake, but felt it here in the Creek.

  22. xoot said, on July 8, 2021 at 7:09 pm

    My sons have been raving about Booker. (We spent some good times watching his one year at KY.) So finally I’m watching now. Maybe my eyes are still adjusting to the light, but Phoenix seems to move the ball around really well.

    • snarkk said, on July 8, 2021 at 7:13 pm

      Phoenix deserves finally getting an NBA championship…

    • willedav said, on July 8, 2021 at 8:07 pm

      Booker is fantastic, can score deep 3s and midrange J. Great elevation, soft touch.

      • xoot said, on July 8, 2021 at 8:14 pm

        He just hit a long series of threes that were Steph like and those fadeaway or are they fall away jump shots are amazing.

      • willedav said, on July 8, 2021 at 8:21 pm

        UK guy too!

      • xoot said, on July 8, 2021 at 8:28 pm


  23. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2021 at 7:14 pm

    Phx should take this. At least i hope so. C Paul should just take his 18′ shot at will while Booker flies around.

  24. zumiee said, on July 8, 2021 at 7:22 pm

    For me, I can’t find a rooting interest in the NBA finals this year. And at the risk of being the old man yelling at cloud meme, I often just can’t get into the NBA style of play these days. It’s another sport that analytics made less entertaining.

    • snarkk said, on July 8, 2021 at 7:43 pm

      I don’t get tired of watching Steph nail 30-40 footers. It’s amazing what he does.
      When he’s done, I’m not sure I’ll keep watching…

      • zumiee said, on July 8, 2021 at 7:52 pm

        Yeah, he’s an exception.

    • unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2021 at 7:53 pm

      Yep, for good or ill, Steph did change the game. Looks like ill. He does it well. Few others not named Klay do. Drive and dish gets old when guys are clanging 3s all game. Seeing Antetokounmpo firing 3s is just ridiculous. Seeing guys pass up easy layups for a corner 3 does bother me.

    • willedav said, on July 8, 2021 at 8:13 pm

      Interesting contrast in styles though zum–Bucks attack the hoop and glass and get lot of points inside paint. Suns get more of theirs 3 at a time. Tonight they had 8 of them in first quarter, but game was still close. Bucks hanging in but have trailed most of last 2 quarters.
      What can get boring for me is endless high screen and roll…just not very creative. Van Gundy finally noticed a defender who went under screen and rotated back onto man he was guarding, something Warriors Barnett has been talking about a long time.
      Also surprised when big gets isolated on smaller defender that no one switches right away to take away advantage.

      • unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2021 at 8:18 pm

        And the big doesn’t just motor to the rim for an easy bucket.

  25. djloo27 said, on July 8, 2021 at 7:51 pm

    Cowboys-Bucs kick off 9 weeks from tonight.
    They still haven’t DQed the Derby winner,
    What happened to that story?

  26. zumiee said, on July 8, 2021 at 7:55 pm

    I think guys like James Worthy and Kevin McHale would have struggled in today’s NBA. Their roles don’t really exist anymore.

    • willedav said, on July 8, 2021 at 8:16 pm

      shot making does still matter. McHale had textbook footwork and post moves and by end of his career had developed 3 pt range too.

    • willedav said, on July 8, 2021 at 8:19 pm

      in 5 out set pretty tough to stay in front of James Worthy too, but agree tougher fit. Game was different then.

  27. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2021 at 8:15 pm

    Speaking of Booker, he’s doing a pretty good Steph right now.

  28. unca_chuck said, on July 8, 2021 at 8:57 pm

    Come on, DJ. You GOT to come out here for a game. It would be epic.

  29. Macdog said, on July 8, 2021 at 9:29 pm

    I’m watching Suns for first time and agree, Booker is an incredible young player. Giannis did all he could to keep the Bucks in it, but didn’t get much help. And the brief moment he came out in the 4th I think the lead went from 5 to 10. The Suns three-shot possession that ended with a Paul 3 with about 4:00 left was probably the dagger.


  30. xoot said, on July 8, 2021 at 10:09 pm

    According to the my shake app the quake at 3:49 and a couple of its aftershocks were the biggest in the world today. Chile and El Salvador had some very close though.

  31. willedav said, on July 9, 2021 at 7:33 am

    Sac lost 10-9 game, low lighted by 4 walks in 1 2/3 from Menez (who still sucks) and Gott giving up HR 3 hits 3 walks for BS L and walkoff win by Salt Lake in 2/3 of an inning. idk, finding pitching help with so many other teams looking ain’t gonna be easy, and doesn’t seem improvements likely to come from farm system, yet.

  32. unca_chuck said, on July 9, 2021 at 7:34 am

    Nats blew an 8 run lead last night to the Pads? And Max Scherzer gave up a granny to relief pitcher Danny Camaren? Wow.

  33. unca_chuck said, on July 9, 2021 at 9:00 am

    Tyler Rogers twin(s) brother Taylor? We’ll give ’em Dick and Tauchman.

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