A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

All Star Break

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on July 18, 2022

What are we on pace for? Like 80 something wins? After watching him for 3 years I think the obvious flaw in Farhan’s game is that he gets too cute with his moves. Not everything has to be a goddamn dumpster dive. And when I look at this team I just see a boatload of slow DH’s. Can’t win with this team or that approach. Hopefully he breaks out of this mindset a little in the off season and makes a move that’s at least one standard deviation away from the garbage can.


64 Responses

Subscribe to comments with RSS.

  1. Giant Head said, on July 18, 2022 at 6:40 am

    Do we join the Juan Soto chase? I posited that we start with Luciano and Heliot and throw in a Seth Corry then 3 lower level prospects. I’m just not dealing Kyle Harrison ever. We need an anchor in our lineup and $350 for 10 years seems like even maybe below market offer but we have no other long term commitments but tons of long term needs.

    • Flavor said, on July 18, 2022 at 6:45 am

      Sure, I just don’t think we win that chase. Z is WAAAAAAY out of his comfort zone engaging in a race like that. Plus, many of our *prospects* have been exposed, the league is probably less interested in them than they would have been a year or two ago. The other issue is what this guy wants to get paid. He said no to 440 mil. I mean come on, what the fuck dude.

    • willedav said, on July 18, 2022 at 7:42 am

      Major caveat with Soto is that he is only under control for 2 more years. No way you empty top level of farm to Nats for someone who can still walk away to highest bidder that soon.

    • unca_chuck said, on July 18, 2022 at 8:05 am

      They want Luciano and Harrison. For 2.5 years and then Soto wants $600 million or some shit. And there’s no guarantee he wants to stay here. So, we’ve traded our future for short term success.

  2. Bozo said, on July 18, 2022 at 7:07 am

    This is actually Zaidi’s 4th season with SF. The moves that he makes now (if any), could also be with his contract year in mind.

    Looking back at what I predicted in March, the current team doesn’t look like they’ll get to 94 wins. Webb continues as the team Ace. Doval is sometimes a lights out closer. Bart is starting to look like the guy they drafted so could still surprise. Looks like a fail on ol’ Captain Crutch. Man, was I wrong about Joc. If we’re not sellers, Zaidi may resign Joc. Easy call on Estrada, he’s a starter now and should be going forward.

    Bozo said, on March 25, 2022 at 7:19 am (Edit)
    94 wins.
    Webb takes it to ace level.
    Doval will be a lights out closer
    Bart will surprise.
    Belt will have a monster year
    Joc won’t be on the roster at the end
    Estrada will play a key role.

  3. alleykat69 said, on July 18, 2022 at 7:46 am

    I would kill for Juan Soto, he’s a generational top 3
    talent and only 23.Why would he take Nats offer at 440? Over 15 years? averages out at 29 mil , that would still be behind Trout&Scherzer and he’s stuck playing on the worst team record wise in baseball, the Nats are the shits..
    It always comes down do the Giants and Z play their usual smoke and mirrors about really in hard going after him? They did however surprised me some getting Bryant at the deadline, so who knows?

    Would not give up Harrison either, no way!! But it’s going to cost ,Luciano,Ramos,Matos,Bednar,are Corry? Nats will be going after the cream of the crop as they should..

    Gotta love Webb whio’s pushing hard for Soto,saying :Hey he would be great and a clubhouse presence,and supposedly he likes the organization but I hope the Giants don’t include me in a trade to get him! Uhh not likely he’s the only roster Giant that is untouchable..

  4. alleykat69 said, on July 18, 2022 at 8:02 am

    Interesting MLB draft pick for the Giants last night as Z/H think outside the box..

    With the #30th pick they took a 2 way player starter in Reggie Crawford 6’4 235 lb from U Conn LHP( throws 99-100 with a good slider at 85) and 1B with 13 HR’s in 230 AB’s batting .309 .. That’s the good news, the bad news he didn’t play last year with TJ surgery.Still nowadays that doesn’t seem to matter in draft picks are the bigs as they mostly come back stronger like Steve Austin when they rebuild them..

    • djloo27 said, on July 18, 2022 at 8:16 am

      Reggie Crawford is a good name for a ballplayer in any sport…

  5. blade3colorado said, on July 18, 2022 at 8:09 am

    This year’s average attendance (30,363) is down from the 33,429 the Giants averaged in the pre-pandemic season of 2019 and significantly down from the 38,965 in 2018 and 40,786 in 2017. I am not a fly on Johnson’s or Z’s wall, but dollars to donuts, everything has to do with the bottom line, particularly with Johnson.

    What Willie said resonates, i.e., “Major caveat with Soto is that he is only under control for 2 more years. No way you empty top level of farm to Nats for someone who can still walk away to highest bidder that soon.”

    I just don’t see where they back up the Brinks truck to Soto’s house; give Washington our top minor leaguer(s), and go to the “Dollar Store” to fill all our other positions. Not happening.

    • Flavor said, on July 18, 2022 at 8:17 am

      Attendance isn’t a big part of how teams make their revenue anymore. It’s all about the TV deals. Johnson is swimming in cash. He can’t wait to give it to the next extremist right wing republican. I’d love it if he’d sell the team but that’s never gonna happen. Why would he sell?

      • Flavor said, on July 18, 2022 at 8:20 am

        TV deals *and revenue sharing. Look at the As their attendance is shit but their owner is cleaning up. Same with Johnson. Same with all of them

      • blade3colorado said, on July 18, 2022 at 8:27 am

        I realize that. However, it’s optics – maybe not the Giants so much, as they fill the stands much more than other teams. The bottom line? The TV deal is not going to last, e.g., ESPN’s part of the 2021 deal is $550 million annual value . . . down $150 million each season from the “old” $700 million.

        If the Commish and owners keep on coming up with these goofy rule changes, coupled with not getting a sane MLB players contract going forward, as others have stated here, you’re looking at a regional sport a la Hockey.

    • alleykat69 said, on July 18, 2022 at 8:53 am

      Blade I would only make the big splash if Z pistol whipped Boras first in getting Soto to agree to a longer deal locked in 8-10 years minimum all locked in, no opt out BS..
      If the Giants want that rise in attendance again they need a face of the franchise player again putting butts in the seats, like with Bonds in 93 and the 2010 run with Posey,Cain,Bum Bum in 12 plus that killer BP staff of Romo,Affeldt&Lopez sealing some many clutch games..

      Yeah it’s a tough situation especially how Z has improved a dismal farm system.But like they say a prospect is only a prospect till he’s not.Soto is the finished stud player at 23, shit he’s no where near his peak right now, incredible numbers already..

      • blade3colorado said, on July 18, 2022 at 9:01 am

        I am down with that, as long as Boras agrees to what you said about “no opt out BS.” We absolutely need a face of the franchise player (Bryant wasn’t it . . . too old and too many warts imo).

  6. willedav said, on July 18, 2022 at 8:11 am

    More immediate question for Z is what to do about Rodon. Would Z try hard to extend him or get in bidding war should Rodon opt out after this year?

    • alleykat69 said, on July 18, 2022 at 8:37 am

      Trade Rodon in part of the Soto deal before his arm falls off.
      Z has no interest in keeping pitchers to long, Gausman never even got an offer from the Giants when he hit F/A so I can see Rodon walking.Might as well get something for him unlike what happened with Gausman….

      • Flavor said, on July 18, 2022 at 9:10 am

        he’s not going to Wash for Soto. They will want nothing but prospects if they’re starting over and that’s what they’re doing if the ditch Soto

  7. djloo27 said, on July 18, 2022 at 8:13 am

    Mr. Ed also a FA after the season…

    • PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on July 18, 2022 at 8:31 am

      Loved that little bit in *the 9th inning game*, after Wilmer fouled a ball off his foot and hit the dirt, and Kuiper says “Get up, Wilmer. We need you”….

  8. Flavor said, on July 18, 2022 at 8:15 am

    Yeah i didn’t see the 440 was for 15 years. I’d offer that dude 10/400. Them he can still get another big one form someone else once he’s on the decline

  9. Flavor said, on July 18, 2022 at 9:09 am

    yeah there’s no way i’d sign Rodon to anything. He’s not exactly a picture of health and he gets riskier and riskier with each pitch thrown. They have him next year too, see what happens and maybe they ditch him as a rental to someone

  10. unca_chuck said, on July 18, 2022 at 9:26 am

    5 more innings (110), and Rodon can opt out after this season. Which looks highly likely.

    I’m sure he can get more than $23 mil on the open market if his season plays out like it has so far.

  11. James said, on July 18, 2022 at 10:22 am

    Back in the days of innocence, there seemed to be dozens of trade proposals on the Flap. Loo still tosses one out occasionally. For whom should Zaidi trade and with what? Should the trade(s) focus on bolstering the team this year or 2-3 years from now? I don’t see him having wriggle room to do much besides shoring up what’s there with a Kris Bryant level deal, if that. They could get knocked out or advance in the first round just as easily with 88 wins as with 107. I certainly don’t want him to give up on this year. OTOH, I have no faith that Luciano, Ramos etc will amount to anything. Good pitching + Soto + another top position FA + a cast of Pedersons Slaters Wilmers is a contender for the next couple of years. That’s as far into the future as any GM should look. Not that we have a chance to get Soto.

    • blade3colorado said, on July 18, 2022 at 10:36 am

      “. . . dozens of trade proposals on the Flap.” What day? lol . . . I doubt any day had even a dozen, but I get your drift, so it’s a valid question.

      • Flavor said, on July 18, 2022 at 10:39 am

        he didn’t say a day, he said days. And he’s right we used to throw out a lot of ideas. I don’t spend time wondering or hoping for a trade for a guy like Soto. It’s just never going to happen. I liked Z’s pick up of Bryant because it showed that at least he has it in him to try to win in the moment with something other than a dumpster dive. Sadly, he’s only done that one time.
        If it’s true he thinks all we need to do is fix our defense and he thinks we can do that by just playing better, well, that’s just short sighted at best. And ignorant at worst.

  12. Giant Head said, on July 18, 2022 at 10:47 am

    Ok nbc sports makes a point about Gnats trying to add in Patrick Corbin to the deal with almost $60 mill coming to him next two years. If so, that lessens the prospect depth chart in a trade. I would want to make the Gnats eat half that and then maybe that take Luciano off the board. So Ramos seems expendable to me and I am not sold on anyone else we have drafted as locks. Ramos-Bishop-Corry for Soto and half of Corbin’s contracts seems like a winner to me. Money coming off the books for just Belt and Longoria easily covers 50% of Corbin’s salary for next two years. And even if you don’t sign Soto past the next two years of control, losing just Ramos-Bishop-Corry does not seem like a huge price. We gave up more in Wheeler for Beltran. Rodon could even walk saving $22 mill more.

    • alleykat69 said, on July 18, 2022 at 12:01 pm

      GH.. Seriously Patrick Corbin???
      Why would the Giants even consider this bum?he’s owed 3/83 , his record is 15-35 the last 3 seasons, he gives up more hits and HR’s then any pitcher in baseball, he’s obviously worthless. Nats were dumb to sign him.He’s an albatross that no team would trade for.He’s stuck in Washington with that stupid contract and the Nats know it..

      • Giant Head said, on July 18, 2022 at 12:28 pm

        It lessens the demand of high end prospects that we lack that other teams can offer and probably let’s up not trade Luciano. And you are counting the current year salary. I argue Gnats pay half. We have practicality no salary commitments starting next two year. Giants will be flush with cash.

  13. unca_chuck said, on July 18, 2022 at 11:25 am

    This front office is trying to build the team on the (relative) cheap by strengthening the farm and not spending ginormous money on guys like Soto. Now.

    They are waiting for their picks to come through the system and build from there. There is absolutely no way they are gonna trade any of their top picks regardless of how many pass on to the bigs or flame out.

    Once these guys are in place, they will determine their next moves. This isn’t the cheap-ass A’s, but then again, this isn’t the damn the torpedoes Dodgers. We are somewhere in the middle of the 2.
    And we really won’t know until more than likely the end of next season once Belt, La Stella, Crawfish, and Shorto are gone.

  14. snarkk said, on July 18, 2022 at 11:51 am

    Giants had Barry for nearly 15 years and never won a Series. And, he was the baaadest bat on the planet. So, it makes no sense at all to spend that much and give up that much for one Soto slugger, regardless how young he is. The Giants could not surround Barry with enough position player support and pitching to leverage his talent into constant playoff success. Would Soto be different after the lower farm system is gutted? Besides, the Giants farm system is probably not better than the real competitors for Soto’s services. Yeah, better just to pay Boras his cut of a deal in exchange for NOT having Soto come to SF. I doubt anyway that SF will be serious about Soto — they may play the old “we’re in the mix” game, as normal, then he ends up in LA or NYC…

    • Giant Head said, on July 18, 2022 at 12:18 pm

      I don’t know Snarkk. There were a lot of playoff appearances and tons of talent around Barry. Kent, Aurillia, Snow, Reggie Sanders, Benito Santiago and great pitching Ortiz Nen Jason Schmidt!!! That 2002 team on paper maybe best Giants team ever.

      • snarkk said, on July 18, 2022 at 2:02 pm

        That’s one WS in 14-15 years.
        Made the playoffs in ’97, 2000, 2002, 2003, barely missed in ’93. Am I missing one?…

      • unca_chuck said, on July 18, 2022 at 2:52 pm

        Given the vagaries of how many teams get into the playoffs now compared to then, it’s a fool’s errand to compare the situations. But the Giants being talentless except for Bonds is a stretch. They had a lot of solid players around him. It wasn’t until the bitter end that shit started falling apart.

  15. Giant Head said, on July 18, 2022 at 12:19 pm

    I think we are in sore mead of a franchise player and who better than Soto in the game today better to build a team around??? Our prospects have not panned out the way we all expected. Pursue at all costs I vote for.

    • unca_chuck said, on July 18, 2022 at 1:54 pm

      Yeah, the Angels have three ‘franchise’ players in Ohtani, Trout, and Syndergaard, and they are tearing up the cellar of the AL West.

      The one-player-is-all-we-need deal rarely works.

      • snarkk said, on July 18, 2022 at 2:04 pm

        Just like it would be folly for the Dubs to bring back KD.
        They have young players lined up to keep the team strong for the next 5-7 years as the old guard winds down. Why give them up for a 34 year old who could snap his achilles again on day 1 of training camp in Sept ’22. Soto is young, but he could get a devastating injury, too. He’s not immune…

      • unca_chuck said, on July 18, 2022 at 2:55 pm

        Agreed. And the REASON they brought Farhan here was to improve the farm and build from within. Beyond the fact it’s cheaper that way, it usually provides the best results to draft well and trade/sign key guys.

        They aren’t gonna dump their work for the last 3 seasons for the shiny object in the window.

  16. James said, on July 18, 2022 at 1:10 pm

    Zaidi‘s focused on the defense in his comments because, from a team perspective, it’s the one area that’s really distorted the plan and looks nothing like what was reasonably expected. 20 fewer runs allowed means 2-4 more wins. 51-40 has them solidly on track for the playoffs.

    I agree that Zaidi shouldn’t expect the team to play better the final 70 games or so, in any phase of the game. If they stay on pace, they still have an ok chance to make the WC. We always tend to overestimate the impact of a single player, even when he’s going well. Bryant was solid, but not much more. If the current roster’s performance goes down, then even adding Soto this year probably wouldn’t be enough. That said, I hope Zaidi finds a player or two that raises our hopes.

  17. James said, on July 18, 2022 at 1:28 pm

    I had forgotten that SF gave up Luis Castillo for Casey McGehee. At least the Mac we got for Reynolds was once an excellent player.

    • unca_chuck said, on July 18, 2022 at 1:52 pm

      At least? That was a horrible trade. Reynolds would have been our first OF all star drafted since Chili Davis. Then again, so would have Duvall.

      But that doesn’t make the Castillo for MaGehee trade any better or worse. They both sucked.

      • James said, on July 18, 2022 at 2:42 pm

        Yes, it was a bad trade.

  18. willedav said, on July 18, 2022 at 2:06 pm

    2016 Dodgers acquired reliever named Josh Fields from Houston. fields had been former first round (#20) pick by Seattle, sent to Boston in 3 team deal after couple years in minors and drafted off Sox by Stros in rule 5 deal.
    Fields spent 3 seasons with LA before being released prior to 2019 and was then signed and released by 2 other teams that season, his last in MLB.
    The guy Dogs sent to Houston for Fields? Yordan Alvarez.

  19. alleykat69 said, on July 18, 2022 at 2:49 pm

    Sounds like His “Fields of Dreams” was never achieved.
    Just the opposite of Yordan Alvarez a premier slugger.
    Always nice to see the Dogpile get fleeced, what were they thinking?
    Then again they seem to develop so much talent, they just shrug it off, are restock by buying more player with they’re endless pocket books..

  20. unca_chuck said, on July 18, 2022 at 2:58 pm

    The old Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz thing. And the thing is, we aren’t at a spot in the development of the team to be trading picks. They are banking on their guys to be the foundation for 2024 and beyond. Then maybe they will have stockpiled enough picks to trade them for immediate help. But now ain’t the time.

    • alleykat69 said, on July 18, 2022 at 3:47 pm

      Are even worst ..Boston traded Jeff Bagwell, for Larry Andersen a reliever who bailed after the season, a 1 month rental! Has to be right up there for most lopsided trade in MLB history..

  21. willedav said, on July 18, 2022 at 3:03 pm

    Giants drafted 8 pitchers in 10 rounds completed. A C and OF in rounds 7-8, otherwise all Ps.
    Still biggest issue imo. Tough to have to replace large parts of rotation every off season.

    • snarkk said, on July 18, 2022 at 4:39 pm

      You can’t develop OFers you don’t draft.
      Maybe they will focus on OFers from the international market…

    • xoot said, on July 18, 2022 at 4:46 pm

      Especially if you believe the notion that the shift is more important defensively than individual stars.

      Is Joe Panik the last first-round pick to pan out here? 2014 might not have happened without him at last, esp. that WS DP.

  22. willedav said, on July 18, 2022 at 3:11 pm

    Giants are still 2nd NL in runs scored per game at 4.8.
    They are also 9th NL for runs allowed and team ERA. Nice to see all bombs lately but pitching and D still wins.

    Btw, Mr. Bozo did pretty well with his March 25 picks. I was probably as wrong about this season as I was last year.

  23. Winder said, on July 18, 2022 at 4:01 pm

    Yesterday’s first two picks showed just how much of a gambler Z is. At least he is not afraid to go for things even when we aren’t doing all that great. It makes me like him more than I did.

  24. snarkk said, on July 18, 2022 at 4:38 pm

    Dodgers top 9 picks yesterday:
    C, SS, OF, SS, SS, SS, 2b, LHP, C

    They took one pitcher, one…

    • djloo27 said, on July 18, 2022 at 5:03 pm

  25. willedav said, on July 18, 2022 at 5:03 pm

    Part of Dogs dominance though is having #1 NL ERA fewest hits and walks 3rd fewest HRs allowed.
    Controllable young SPs like Urias ($8mil) gonsolin (pre arb eligible) and Buehler (2 yrs/$8mil), plus getting vintage Kershaw. Until SF can develop SPs like that beside Webb, behind 8 ball to them.
    Also having cheap controllable pitching allows them to splurge for Freeman Betts yada yada.

    • snarkk said, on July 18, 2022 at 5:33 pm

      Giants during SabEvans and to a bit lesser extent with ZMan consistently drafted tons of pitchers. What is there right now to show for it that is truly valuable? Logan Webb. That’s it…

      • xoot said, on July 18, 2022 at 6:20 pm

        Yeah, I’m not overly impressed with Bickford, Baragar, Menez — although a few later draftees, current milbers, look promising, including the one Stix highlighted the other day, Dabovich. But the list is short and thin at the mlb level. Some recent int’l signings have contributed. Doval, Marte, e.g.

  26. Macdog said, on July 18, 2022 at 5:34 pm

    Waiting for Loo’s annual rant about the kids in the outfield at the HR Derby.

    • willedav said, on July 18, 2022 at 5:52 pm

      And more loohanzaidi trade proposals in down time this week.😊

  27. snarkk said, on July 18, 2022 at 5:57 pm

    I would run away from a big LT deal with Rodon.
    He’s a TJ surgery waiting to happen, unless he’s had one already. If he has, run away even faster…

    • alleykat69 said, on July 18, 2022 at 6:15 pm

      Run Forest Run ..Yes Rodon had TJ surgery back in 2020…

      • snarkk said, on July 18, 2022 at 6:24 pm

        They say the second TJ rarely works well.
        The Beard’s second one turned him into a thief taking the Doghair’s money — good for him…

  28. PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on July 18, 2022 at 7:29 pm

    Good to see Slater up his game lately. I would almost say he’s becoming a “real starting CFer”…. 🙂

  29. willedav said, on July 18, 2022 at 8:29 pm

    Think Xoot 4-46 is right about Panik being last first round success. 2011 draft iirc.

    • Bozo said, on July 19, 2022 at 6:47 am

      True. Since Panik (2011) 1st rounders were:
      Crick (P) also 2011 – became part of the McCutchen trade,
      Stratton (P) 2012 – was traded to the Angels for another bust, Jerez,
      Arroyo (INF) 2013 – part of the trade for Longo,
      Beede (P) 2014 – DFA this year and picked up by Pittsburgh,
      Bickford (P) 2015 – part of the trade to the Brewers for Will Smith,
      Shaw (1B) also 2015 – claimed off waivers by Baltimore,
      No 1st round pick for 2016
      Ramos (OF) 2017 – AAA,
      Bart (C) 2018 – Starting SF catcher,
      Bishop (OF) 2019,
      Bailey (C) 2020,
      Bednar (P) 2021.

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: