A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball

To Judge or Not To Judge…..

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on October 26, 2022

That is the question.

I go back and forth on this one. My brain gets all the reasons not to give this dude 400 large but if it actually happened I’d be stoked. Just like the rest of you. Admit it.

I still don’t think it has a chance of happening because getting used for leverage by other agents is just how we roll.

But it’s fun to think about…


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  1. Giant Head said, on October 26, 2022 at 6:07 am

    I believe $400 mill gets her done. Fans need reasons to go to the ballpark and spend their money. There is no draw with this team. And no way no how we can let him even consider the Flodgers.

    • Flavor said, on October 26, 2022 at 6:18 am

      that’s what Sarge was just saying on twitter. Wins aren’t enough of a draw. They can’t continue to be this boring every year. There isn’t a single player I care about on this team right now.

      • djloo27 said, on October 26, 2022 at 1:39 pm

  2. willedav said, on October 26, 2022 at 6:44 am

    Year away from Luciano Harrison etc. era, when new kids will bring energy as Craw departs.
    Who hits behind Judge in Giants lineup, Wilmet? He’d break Bonds record for walks in single season. Beside fact that Yanks cannot possibly let Judge go somewhere else like across town to Mets, does anyone really believe Z is gonna pay Judge AND Turner or Correa or Bell or Rizzo or Rodon?

    • Flavor said, on October 26, 2022 at 7:45 am

      no, not really. Fun to consider tho

  3. unca_chuck said, on October 26, 2022 at 8:25 am

    Soo judgey. Bonds was what, 29 years ago? Yeah, it is one of those things that would at least jazz up the fan base and force people to take notice. Till the games start. Sure, we need more. Shit, we could get Tyler Anderson back for a lot less than Rodon. Get Bell, Nimmo, and Chick Correa and we are good to go.

    Can’t believe Judge doesn’t play 1st base.

  4. unca_chuck said, on October 26, 2022 at 8:26 am

    But if they bring Belt an Longo back, pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft.

    Fuck ’em.

    • Flavor said, on October 26, 2022 at 9:43 am

      ownership can’t be that tone deaf, can they? Even the house-iest facebook housewife can’t want to watch that bullshit anymore, can they?

    • unca_chuck said, on October 26, 2022 at 9:58 am

      Sure they can. There are people out there wanting us to bring Romo and Bummie back. The fact that Farhan even said what he said worries the shit out of me. I mean, why even say shit like that out loud?

      Do they then run to the interwebs to see what kind of reaction they get?

  5. Locojuan said, on October 26, 2022 at 9:58 am

    Maybe the question isn’t will Zaidi sign Judge and/or other high-priced FAs but can he. It seems to me that either Zaidi has trouble pulling the trigger or maybe the players agents just say fuck this guy.
    When Zaidi got here, we needed a solid outfield, and IMO we still need that. Yaz, Wade JR, Slater all would be great guys coming off the bench, but as starters? Come on. We don’t need a bunch of shortstops that can play CF, or outfielders that can play 1st, or pitch mop up. We need a solid core outfield with the role guys on the bench.

    People have said they know what Zaidi is going to do but it seems to me he’s done the opposite since getting to SF. He didn’t jettison older guys for younger players, he resigned the old guys and when young players came up, they usually played out of position. He has made some good trades but his addiction to the waiver wire is nuts.

    Maybe some of the drafts will pan out, but why not go after someone like Judge now to build around? Getting Harper didn’t work out for Philly right away, but it seems like it is now.
    Also, it doesn’t all have to happen through free agents, some of those kids could be traded.
    There are a lot of holes to fill, hopefully Zaidi starts getting guys that stick long enough to sell their jerseys.

    • unca_chuck said, on October 26, 2022 at 10:04 am

      I kind of get the fact that when Farhan and Co got here, we were like the 3rd highest payroll with a TON of dead meat in the lineup. It has taken a few years to get rid of the bloated deals. We are now down to something like 20th with Belt and Longo gone. IF they are gone.

      Waiting for the draftees is a different cat to skin, but the question remains will they go hard for free agents? They certainly have the money now. There’s no reason not to sign 3-4 big-ticket guys. Maybe not Judge, but solid guys.

      As always, though, the FAs are for the most part on the wrong side of 30. Still ,they need to do something big.

  6. blade3colorado said, on October 26, 2022 at 11:23 am

    I think Z isn’t getting a fair shake John. No where do you mention last season. Sheesh, that was the catalyst for resigning all those old farts (bore core), and retaining Yaz, Wade, Slater, et. al. Couple the aforementioned with Posey retiring after almost a career season – is it any wonder that this season was painful? Even with all that, the Giants were STILL IN IT TO THE LAST WEEK OF THE SEASON.

    Quite frankly, 2021 in a weird, fucked up way, delayed the rebuild, as it was a “false flag” record showing that the Giants had arrived . . . Wrong.

    • blade3colorado said, on October 26, 2022 at 11:27 am

      One other thing – who here did NOT think the Giants were going to win upwards of 90 games this season??? Uhh huh. Quite frankly, I was so suspicious of last season’s record, that I did not provide any prediction when Flav asked that question at the beginning of this season.

      • Locojuan said, on October 26, 2022 at 12:46 pm

        Yep, I picked 94, I think I have picked a win total in the low 90s every year. Still, that would have been 13 games under 2021 not the 26 games under that we were, which in my mind was a big failure.
        This will be his 5th year, I hope he puts together a team that goes deep into the playoffs not just the regular season.

    • unca_chuck said, on October 26, 2022 at 2:12 pm

      I picked 88.

  7. Giant Head said, on October 26, 2022 at 1:06 pm

    Reading some of the Judge stories there was one with a quote from a source close to ownership saying they will not be underbid. Not a Farhan decision in my mind. Ownership looking at record low attendance for the park and the gleaming Warriors with a shiny new trophy down the street…

  8. Winder said, on October 26, 2022 at 1:19 pm

    I doubt we go anywhere near 400mil. But it will be fun to jack the price up for him. Maybe the Yanks will give us a deal on another player or two just for us to stay out of it. Someone said it above we will once again be the leverage team.

  9. unca_chuck said, on October 26, 2022 at 1:25 pm

    So, even though the season started late and the playoffs are rolling through mid-November, they baseball pooh-bahs still take 5 days off between the end of the AL and NL chips.


  10. djloo27 said, on October 26, 2022 at 1:59 pm

    He pitched over 3000 innings in the 1950’s but you never hear his name:


    I think he’s the only pitcher in the post WW2 era who averaged 300 innings per season over a 10 year period.
    All of the usual suspects you might think of didn’t even come close.

    • blade3colorado said, on October 26, 2022 at 2:15 pm

      He’s well known to us geezers though Loo. I would be surprised if anyone here over 55 never heard of Robin Roberts. Everyone else probably thinks it’s this person when you mention the name. lol


    • willedav said, on October 26, 2022 at 2:19 pm

      He was pitching in Macs debut, game he went 4-4 1959 on way to winning Rookie of Year.

  11. unca_chuck said, on October 26, 2022 at 2:18 pm

    Hear it all the time. The ESPN announcer is named after him.

  12. blade3colorado said, on October 26, 2022 at 2:32 pm

    Roberts in his 4th best season had 26 complete games, more than Clayton Kershaw has in his career (25) and tied with Justin Verlander’s career mark (26). Pitchers are pathetic today. Good article about their disappearance, with even this dumb shit Commissioner saying that it is hurting the game.


  13. unca_chuck said, on October 26, 2022 at 3:28 pm

    It ain’t the pitchers, Blade. I’m sure if you asked any 100 of these guys if they want to come out in the 5th, they’d say ‘fuck off and let me pitch, skip.” Pitching through 7 is now the anomaly. Dave Roberts (or Friedman) is fucking retarded to pull Anderson after 5 in a win-or-die situation. And of course it bit him in the ass. As it has numerous times.

    And sure, there are times it’s warranted. Rodon himself would hit the hundo mark in the 4th inning. Then, pulling him in 5 ain’t terrible. Even then, you still could leave a guy in.

    It’s just the knee-jerk reaction of the Friedman types who say regardless of the situation, I’m pulling my starter because the numbers say the 3rd time through the lineup is when guys get hit.

    Kapler has played every side of that scenario this year to weird and awful results, but at least he isn’t just yanking guys early for no apparent reason.

    • blade3colorado said, on October 26, 2022 at 4:03 pm

      Even Scherzer says, “We’re stunting young kids’ growth, developing as pitchers, by removing them early in the game and not giving them the chance to fail.”

  14. unca_chuck said, on October 26, 2022 at 4:13 pm

    Scherzer is of the old school so he’s of course gonna say that, but I don’t think he’s wrong. There’s got to be a balance between the old guys throwing on 4 days rest, throwing a complete game and pitching 450 innings and having guys throwing 95 pitches through 5 innings and calling it a success.

  15. willedav said, on October 26, 2022 at 5:15 pm

    The odd thing is, even while today’s pitchers are babied and on innings limits throughout minors and pitch counts at ML level, so many of them still get hurt and need surgery. Given all the millions paid to elite pitchers, baseball still doesn’t know how to keep them healthy.
    Webb was bummed he didn’t quite get to 200 innings, lol. I’ll look it up, but how many others in NL did this year? Shutouts? Pls. Marichal had 10 in ONE season, and 8 in another.

  16. willedav said, on October 26, 2022 at 5:18 pm

    Answer is 5 guys NL with 200 innings +, led by Alcantara at 228 and 4 others 205 and on down.
    Webb was 7th NL at 192.

  17. willedav said, on October 26, 2022 at 5:20 pm

    B/R pitching leaders page for NL shows 7 guys with 1 shutout each.

  18. willedav said, on October 26, 2022 at 5:25 pm

    We could make a game of this–think of a crummy Giants pitcher and see if they had a season where they threw more shutouts than any of today’s aces.
    Ron Herbel, for instance, threw 2 of them in 1964.

    • Winder said, on October 26, 2022 at 5:28 pm

      Yeah, the game is nothing like it used to be. TV money killed everything.

  19. Winder said, on October 26, 2022 at 5:26 pm

    I remember Roberts and Ashburn the most. But I had 30 clay dalrymple cards at least.

    • PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on October 26, 2022 at 6:56 pm

      Haha, me too with the Dalrymple cards, too funny. My boyhood best friend who lived across the street, his Mom had dated Robin Roberts before she married my friend’s dad. Still had pictures of him in uniform hanging on the wall. Thought that was kind of strange. My earliest Phils team was a bit later than Roberts and Ashburn (Richie was already doing the color commentary with By Som’s play by play) — Richie Allen, Tony Gonzalez, Tony Taylor, Calison in RF, Cookie Rojas.. Bunning and Short. Fun team. Too bad they coughed it up in ’64…

    • djloo27 said, on October 26, 2022 at 6:57 pm

      Dalrymple had the only hit in Marichal’s insane ML debut…


      • PaulinAsia Banh Bao said, on October 26, 2022 at 7:06 pm

        Didn’t know that. I was 4 at the time. Kind of came into awareness of things in the next couple of years. A lifelong process.

      • willedav said, on October 26, 2022 at 7:26 pm

        Yes sir he did!

      • Winder said, on October 26, 2022 at 8:24 pm

        Wow. I didn’t know that. I can’t remember the first game Marichal pitched. There certainly were some good pitchers in that era. Talk about a thrilling pitcher to watch he was one.

      • willedav said, on October 26, 2022 at 8:36 pm

        Thanks Loo. Look at Mays slash line.
        OPS is over 1.000 with slugging pct of .619, he’s hitting .344 half way through season in mid July and he stole his 20th base. 5 tools just isn’t enough to describe him.

      • Macdog said, on October 26, 2022 at 9:34 pm

        Giants LF that game Dave Philley actually played 2-plus seasons with the Phillies.

      • djloo27 said, on October 26, 2022 at 9:41 pm

        He had a PH record for consecutive AB (8?) that I think Rusty Staub tied as a Met.
        Could be wrong…

  20. blade3colorado said, on October 26, 2022 at 5:48 pm

    Good stuff Willie . . . Today, Alcantara is today’s version of a stud pitcher (6 complete games). Unca, I have to disagree with you that “Scherzer is of the old school.”

    You probably didn’t read that article I cited above. Specifically, “Scherzer broke into the major leagues in 2008 and did not pitch a complete game until his 179th start in June 2014, the most career starts without a complete game of any pitcher since at least 1900. He has faced the No. 9 slot four times in a game just once.” Nope, he’s definitely not old school. lol

    • unca_chuck said, on October 26, 2022 at 8:33 pm

      Well, not 60s old school, 2000s old school.

  21. blade3colorado said, on October 26, 2022 at 7:34 pm

    Willie, how about Tom Bradley (nope, not the LA Mayor) . . . Dude had a .474 career win % and tossed 10 shutouts (one with the Gmen).

  22. blade3colorado said, on October 26, 2022 at 7:40 pm

    Pete Falcone 12 – 11 win/loss record in 1975. Threw a shutout in his rookie year. He was traded to the Cards the next season and would have led this season’s pitchers in complete games (9) . . . Too bad he didn’t have a time machine.

  23. willedav said, on October 26, 2022 at 8:49 pm

    Blade those are great. I looked up Renie Martin but he didn’t shut anyone out in his 3 years with Giants in the forgettable early 80s, though he did have a complete game.
    However…his career BA with SF was .309!
    with 3 doubles and 3 triples no less in 81 ABs and an OPS of .728.

  24. Winder said, on October 26, 2022 at 9:09 pm

    Had to do it

  25. mrsprtdude said, on October 26, 2022 at 9:56 pm

    Hi all,
    Just read Paulies 2012 WS book. Good way to pay homage to the Flap. In fact the book is dedicated to the Flap!

    • djloo27 said, on October 26, 2022 at 10:36 pm

      His next one can be in memory of it…

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