Jim Joyce
After listening to the long interview he gave about the blown call I have a greater appreciation for what happened and just letting this go. No one feels worse than Joyce. He obviously loves this game and takes pride in being a major league ump. He knows what this will forever do to his legacy in the game. Selig isn’t changing it, it’s just time to move on from all this. In fact, Joyce is taking WAY too much shit for what he did. He blew a call, he didn’t kill anyone or anything. he had tears in his eyes when Galarraga turned in the line up card today. For me, all this ended when that happened. Galarraga ended it by going out to home plate and showing Joyce there are no hard feelings. If he’s going to forgive the guy everyone should. He’s a human being, who hasn’t made worse mistakes than what Joyce did yesterday?
PS–the comments are now restricted to 50 a page to keep the stutter up thing from happening….
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
All credit goes to Gallaraga and especially Joyce in defusing what could have been ugly. So I agree: let it go. Two men showed what makes a man… bravo to both and to Leyland as well…
it was easy to jump to the quick conclusion that Joyce is just a fucking moron fuckwad (see, I really did take it off the moderator list, twin). But hearing him speak you are reminded that these guys are human beings. Who deserves to be raked over the coals for the rest of the life for this mistake? Nobody does. But Tiger fans are going to ride this guy for as long as he’s in the public eye. That’s fucking bullshit. It was just horrendously awful timing that it happened when it did. Umps miss that call at least once a day, if not more, around major league baseball……
Can anyone confirm Bowker down to Fresno, Burrell up?
BTW, anyone give a rat’s ass about the NBA Finals? I know it’s LA/BOS, yada yada yada. Can’t say I’m too enthralled. Have it on, mostly as background noise…
I don’t give a shit about the NBA anymore. SO many shit years from the Warriors ruined it for me, and I was once a HUGE NBA fan. It simply doesn’t feel right to me that they are playing basketball right now. Had the W’s made the playoffs more than once in the last 16 years or whatever it is I might have been conditioned to watch NBA basketball in June. But it just feels wrong, doesn’t it???
I don’t think they’ve announced Burrell yet because they still have to clear a spot on the 40-man.
where did you here that denny? I haven’t heard anything about that happening. Baer didn’t say a word about it on his radio gig at 5pm on KNBR either. You think that would be something he’d lead with……
And the Gringo is as BF would say, back to form, ready to take the radically minority opinion:
Same thing as usual in this day and age. Make a mistake, do a press conference, admit to it, apologize, everyone is happy and forgives. Just another ‘heart felt mea culpa’ post facto that would probably NOT have occurred if there wasn’t so much press around it. As always, it comes down to intent.
Sorry, not buying it. He might have ‘regretful feelings’, but it doesn’t change the fact it was a despicable call considering the circumstance. When Leyland came out to dispute the call, the umps, lead by Joyce, did their ‘circle the wagon thing’ and simply had no intention at the time of even considering they could be wrong, even when the replays on the big screen were showing the contrary.
I can understand in a ‘normal game’, but we’re talking about a PERFECT game, with this being the last out.
Kum Ba Ya all around I suppose, but everyone wins except the kid who got screwed.
Both of these guys rose above the circumstances in ways I could only hope to in my daily life. The three hardest words in English, especially for men, are “I was wrong,” with the three words “You were right” a close second. Yes, it’s a terrible injustice, but deep down everyone will always know it was an imperfect perfect game, and our society. lacking in civility, can learn from this, if it wants to (it doesn’t). I was similarly struck to find out that Dodgers fans in Brooklyn, at Ebbets Field, stood and cheered for Willie Mays in 1952 in his last game before going to the army. As famed sportswriter Red Smith noted, these were people who hated even to say the word “Giants.” We’ve lost such civility, in politics, sports, public discourse. So, with Gallaraga and Joyce playing their parts the way they did goes down in history as the greater lesson, not one I could easily lay claim to. It’d be natural for me to pout and be resentful; the pitcher showed none of that. Bravo for him.
CSN. http://tinyurl.com/2emjt
Pickled, there is a significant difference from the typical press conference. “I was wrong” is different from the typical and passive “mistakes were made” or “I made a mistake.” Now, I wonder if the crew chief has or would make the same admission. I would like to see Selig reverse the call but in some respects that does not work. You can’t replay the scene; what would happen to the AB after that? I suppose if we weren’t so fetishistic over stats, it’d be simple. I’d be pleased to see it reversed (almost certain the kid never gets this chance at perfection again), but life is filled with such untidy injustices, and as Magnus (FIRST USE OF “MAGNUS” ON NEW BLOG), there are surely greater injustices every day on this planet.
POTD, Pawlie.
the kid got over it ‘Gringo, you should too. If you don’t think Joyce was being sincere in his interview than don’t forgive him, I suppose. But if you don’t think he was being honest in the interview than I suspect you have a hard time in life reading people/situations/body language/etc….I remember when Scotty Garrelts lost a nono with 2 outs in the 9th–listening to the radio, I think the hitter ruined it with a hit up the middle. I remember falling to the ground in my kitchen just going “No fucking way!” I am WAY more bummed out about that one than Galarraga’s. I mean come on, we’ve had 2 perfecto’s in a month, is your life really ruined if there isn’t another, especially considering it wasn’t even our pitcher? Of course not. But Jim Joyce’s life is ruined. He’s going to hear it from idiots like you for the rest of his public life. His kids, his wife, they’ll have to conceal their identity or face an onslaught of bullshit from fans who can’t let go. That should be enough for you, right??????
Pawlie, got your voicemail. I loved the end “Kokonuts signing off”. I didn’t call you back since it didn’t sound like you needed anything critical and I’ve got my hands full here at night with Katie and her newfound neediness with the one bum arm……
Sorry, that last link didn’t go through. Try this one. It’s from Flav’s “esteemed colleague,” Mychael Urban.
http://tinyurl.com/2emjtbn
Magnus, I’m good and no need for your callback since by what you see here I guess I’ve figured the technology out, unless I am someone else pretending to be the famous, if not infamous Sir Kokonuts.
My previous post should add the word “said” after “MAGNUS” or after”BLOG),”.
Again, best wishes for Katie’s recovery (as well as yours, mentally).
I like the way WordPress made it easy for me to click on Denny’s link. BTW, it says MDR could go on 60-day DL to make room for Burrell. Hmmmmm.
Actually Gringo, your opinion is only radically different in that it is, thank God, an opinion only held by the kind of yahoos who threatened Joyce’s family. You are back in Room Fuckwad, doubt you’ll get out this time.
Flav – by being in a position of prominence and responsibility, and in the public eye, that comes with the territory, so his ‘fuck up’ is his to deal with – I won’t be losing sleep either way. I don’t have to forgive or not, he doesn’t answer to me, or you, or anyone else except MLB.
So I’m in ‘idiot’ for having an opinion that’s different than yours? So be it, but you judging me is fairly hypocritical isn’t it? Just saying…
I thought Room Fuckwad was in the Hotel California??? Didn’t think you could ever leave?
‘…we are all just prisoners here, of our own device
And in the master’s chambers,
They gathered for the feast
The stab it with their steely knives,
But they just can’t kill the beast (Gringo)…’
I give a lot of credit to Joyce for saying what he did, and even more kudos to Gallaraga for handling it the way he has…That was just an expression i used yesterday. “That ump should be shot”. The man, of course not…
here’s hoping Burrell can make some impact…
brigo? nah…b4igo…
Room Fuckwad is in the Hotel Dipshitovitch.. you had posted somewhat reasonably for awhile, PGF. This post on Joyce was a true disgrace..”it was a despicable call”… what the fuck is that? It could only be “despicable” if he called the runner safe knowing he was out. It is intellectually dishonest to suggest that an umpire has a greater or lesser responsibility due to the “importance” of the call. The fact that there is a video conclusively showing that Joyce missed the call is actually MASSIVELY unfair to Joyce if the avenue to make it right is blocked. It is Selig who should “man up” and reverse the call.
Hacker getting lit up again, DeRosa 1 for 1 with an RBI…
I actually agree with you TF. The RIGHT thing is to fix the call, not wax poetically about regret and feelings, and all that shit that does not change a thing, which only tries to justify the regret. Where Joyce was way off base last night is in his ardent defense of a shitty call considering the context of the game. Even IF the runner got to the base at the same time, you still give the benefit of the doubt to the pitcher in THAT situation. Joyce should’ve swallowed his pride last night and realize the magnitude of the blown call and make it right. Instead, he opted for the cop out obligatory ‘next day press conference’.
Maybe I should reword…the whole situation was dispicable, and the fact Joyce comes out smelling like roses is ridiculous.
Where the fuck are you getting “ardent defense of a shitty call”? As soon as he saw the replay he said he blew it. He thought he made the right call until he saw the replay. It’s asinine to say he could have “made it right”. By the time he saw the replay, it was not in his hands. You are not just wrong, fuck, you are out of line…
And that you are such a shallow asshole is why you sneeer at a man owning up to a mistake. You are truly a weasel…
xoot, you are batting 1.000….add TV timeouts, excessive celebration for every tackle, guys pointing to the sky, headbands (et al)….sideline reporter babes…cheerleaders/dance teams at pro sports….NBA pre-game noise level and PA guys…Chris Berman…
“Joyce should’ve swallowed his pride last night and realize the magnitude of the blown call and make it right. “– what does that even mean? That once he got in the dugout after the game and saw the replay he should have tried to change it? WTF? He was as forthcoming as a public baseball figure could be during that conference. He didn’t do on your time table? That’s a joke…..
and if you think he’s “come out smelling like roses” you’re just delusional. He’s getting death threats you dumbass…..
Selig still has it in his power to reverse the call. Did anyone watch the 15 minutes of attention given to the matter by Keith Olberman tonight? Classic critique of the man who Keith called the Worst Person In The World today, although some would call him the Worst Person In The World since he became Commissioner.
Yet, he still can reverse the call. I say, in the name of Fay Vincent, put together a commission, one similar to the one Vincent put in place to remove 2 perfect games and 48 other no-hitters, and put back into the history books any perfect games or no-hitters that should have been, but weren’t.
This minor leaguer Garrett Broshuis really has a fine and insightful baseball blog. Here’s his interview with, pause, his buddy Ryan Sadowski, another pause, playing in Korea, longer pause, in the South.
http://minorleaguelife.blogspot.com/2010/06/war-korea-and-sadowski.html
My Dad was the play by play guy and I think Wayne Walker was doing color when Phyllis George made her debut on the sideline. I forget who was playing but I remember Phyliss because it was her first game and one of my Dad’s last for CBS. It was fitting in a way, he had hated sideline reporting and had in fact quit CBS for a year protesting it. They dropped it and he returned the following year. That was different than what George did, it had been ex-players trying to get in-game interviews with players as they went to the sideline after a series. Pop was a purist: down and distance, just the facts, ma’am…
assistant to the assistant assistant fuckwad coach…stupid millionaire ballplayer injuries, i.e. swinging a bat in on deck circle or diving for a baseball and landing on pristine grass…
Dodgers losing 4 zip through 6, by the way.
I will say this about the upcoming Pittsburgh series: as nice as a ballpark as you’ll see. About five-six years ago, when my son was attending the Art Institute of Pittsburgh, he agreed to watch his younger sister and my wife and I made it to PNC around the 3rd inning. For 10 bucks each got great seats. Cubs. Aramis Ramirez. The Pirates’ Jason Bay had something like 5 RBIs the night before. Good crowd. September. Best part: fantastic sight lines of the rivers and skyline, a real cozy yet urban feel. Lots of restaurants. Terrific place. Three guys and I took a road trip to a game in Cleveland in ’94 or ’95 and one guy is trying to reprise the gathering in Pittsburgh. Can’t find four more different guys. Crazy. We picked up a street guy in Erie, thinking he’d show us a strip joint. Poor guy was shaking from DTs or afraid of us. BTW, I emailed this news to MagnusFlavoris: it so happens my business trip in DC coincides w/ Strasburg’s debut there. I bought a cheap seat online last Saturday, just before the announced start. Fuckwads.
Braves have been impressive over the last few weeks. Fuckwahds [southern drawl], y’all.
In regards to the NBA finals, I watched most of the game tonight. I don’t know how much of this series I’ll watch. It’s kind of interesting that it’s Lakers/Celtics, and all the history of that match-up; but does anyone think that either of these teams could win a single game in a seven game series from the Lakers and Celtics of the ’80s?
Joyce had a job to do, and simply, he failed, and by doing so, he ruined the greatest moment this kid would have in his life (professionally). And everyone is saying how wonderful he is for admitting his mistake – like he had a choice. This has nothing to do with Joyce as a person, this has everything to do with Joyce as an umpire. He failed miserably either because 1) he was incompetent, 2) he was aloof, or 3) not realizing (or caring) about the magnitude of the call or situation.
Whatever, not looking to win an argument here, just sharing an opinion which you don’t agree with, nothing more and nothing less, and some of the responses drip with irony in the judgments laid against me.
Or the 60s/early 70s for that matter, Zum.
I think the thing with the umpire is that it taps into a deep-rooted anger issue most fans have about the umps, and the big question being “Why aren’t they better?” or “Is this the best they can be?” Obviously, LiveFree on the Splash, thinks they could be better. Could they? The umps seem to only have about a 50%-75% rate of success on close plays. ANY of us could make the non-close calls. The guy who’s out at first by 3 feet. What we need trained umps for is the close calls. And yet they get it wrong a distressingly high % of the time, IMO. And maybe that’s what Selig is afraid of. There’s a whole can of worms there that he doesn’t want to open- could the umps be better, and how could they be made to be better?
The kid pitched a great game. In a way, his near miss saved him from becoming just another in the recent series of perfectos, gave him some cachet. Also, as a number of our urbane colleagues already have noted, the imbroglio tested him and he proved to be strong, compassionate and dignified under pressure. Nobody’s gonna forget this guy.
Jim Joyce? Again, I hate the idea of a man with that name fucking up a beautiful June day. Otherwise, I can only admire how umpire Joyce took charge of his own mistake and did what he could to make it right. He didn’t hide behind umpire-union or mlb spokespeople. He didn’t ask his crew mates to back his call. He didn’t convene with lawyers to forge the all too common “written statement.” He looked at the video of the play and saw his failure and immediately and personally dealt with it as well as anyone in his situaiton could. There are fans in Detroit who cheered him tonight. How do I know? Because we are.
(willied — if you range too far outside baseball, I’ll be somewhat less vociferous, less certain. But I’ll toss this one in: Lane Kiffin.)
“not realizing (or caring) about the magnitude of the call or situation.”
This is the puzzler, to me. I’m sure he realized and cared, but still….maybe he just choked, like players choke sometimes.
Joe Morgan said shortly after it happened, on ESPN- everyone involved in the game needs to be aware when something magical is happening. The batter at the plate in the ninth inning needs to be aware that with two strikes on him, he needs to swing at anything close. Morgan brought up the last pitch in the Larsen perfect game, a pitch that was an extremely border-line strike at best, high and outside. The ump called it a strke, and Larsen had his magical game.
Something tells me that if all the facts were the same, but Lincecum was the guy who lost the perfect game, the Kumbaya vibe would be dialed way back and the Lynch Mob would be in full effect.
I agree Joyce has been a stand up guy about it after the fact—and I respect him for that. But I agree with Gringo about that crew screwing up MASSIVELY. I don’t want to see the guy get death threats, but I’m not ready to forgive and forget and I don’t have a problem with him catching a good dose of shit for a while.
San Dog, that’s a legit switch of perspective. But what if Timmy and the ump convened, smoked a joint in private and then came out smiling for the cameras, all’s forgiven sorta smiles? I think I’d take Lincecum’s suggestion.
Welcome to Room Fuckwad San Dog. It’s a lonely place but I’ve dressed it up okay…
I still wanna know if Timmy and Orlando Cepeda get high together. I really want to believe that they do.
Don’t ever presume to tell others how they would act were it Lincecum, San Dog. Especially with the “Lynch Mob” crack. It is NOT a legit switch of perspectiive, it is ineed a lynch mob mentality- don’t think you can escape being at the front of it by suggesting that others would do the same for “their guy”. Bullshit. Joyce is far more the victim than Gallaraga.
Pawlie….
perfect post of the day…
This “magic moment” was first fucked by Cabrera, let’s calll that cocksucker out for it while we’re castigating Joyce for not giving into the “moment”. Shouldn’t Miggy have been perfect, knowing his teammate’s place in history was at stake? Why did that fuckwad try to field the second baseman’s ball?
And Uribe? He made an AWFUL error. Is Joyce not to be forgiven because he’s an umpire? They are not allowed mistakes but the players are? They are all human and make mistakes as all humans do. And that was not a call that would EVER be subject to another umpire overturning it. No one could possibly have had a better view. HE MISSED THE CALL. The only person who has the power to make it right is Selig. Where are the brain dead talking heads calling for HIS ass and inciting fat fuck couch potatoes ?
“especially considering it wasn’t even our pitcher?” BF, up above.
BF raised the point early on. Clearly, it’s a legitimate turn of the table to test how we would react if a perfect game were to be taken away from a Giants’ pitcher on what should have been the last play of the game. We would be closer, more involved, more emotional. But the people here who are outside the lynch mob mentality now would be outside the lynch mob mentality then. , despite the greater effort that might require. I think. But it’s legitimate to ask the question. (I just happen to disagree with San Dog’s initial answer.)
I have no doubt there are fucks here who would call for the ump’s head… just as some idiots thought Schulman should have voted for Tim for the Cy just because he was “our guy”.. well, they’re retard fucktards, OK? I’m HUGELY pissed off at what was absolutely an incitement to violence by much of the media last night. It was journalism at it’s pandering worst. WSW accidentally nailed it with his “he should be shot”, noting it was the umpire ,not the man, he spoke of. Perfect-the umpires are NOT human, just robots in uniforms, the hated Gestapo, the boot on your throat…
Well, maybe there are such fuckwads here. Pickledpinhead, however, mostly pretends to be an asshole. Why anyone would want to do that I can’t say, but there you are. If push came to shove, he wouldn’t pick up the pitch fork. San Dog’s another story altogether. He means what he says. Essentially, TF, he agrees with you: the mob mentality would take over here, if a Giants pitcher were involved. But I don’t see anything in his chilly assessment to indicates that HE would join the mob.
So who here would? There’s a big difference between the immediate rage and the mediated act. Things would cool down.
Maybe some coaches earn less than some umpires. Otherwise, when the ball is live, the umpires are earning, by far, the lowest wages on the field of play. In some instances, the difference approaches that between a Fortune 50 CEO and the company’s newest 18 year old security guard. The conflicts are surprisingly complex. Most real fans appreciate that fact.
Read or watch what Leyland said- after he calmed down from the understandable initial outrage at the missed call. Pay attention to how Gallaraga responded. Read what Joyce said. Those three were men. Those who even after time for reflection would call for the umpire’s head? Not so much…
I assume Joyce was aware of the circumstance prior to making the call. I imagine that he told himself “if it comes down to a close call I have to make, I am going to be scrupulously honest about it, not call the guy out if he’s really safe. I want the perfect game to be perfect.” The out call was a reflex set up by a premeditated disposition.
The application of psychology to a game so overdetermined by statistical probabilities is usually total bullshit. But that’s my theory on the lesser Joyce.
Those three acted admirably. (I was the first on this blog to note Leyland’s press conference response. I was impressed.) But they HAD to work it through, immediately, and decide whether to stand up or retreat. All three stood up and spoke for themselves. No bullshit handlers or spokespeople vamping while someone else figured out what each of them should say. They figured it out and said it. The fact that they had to make their decisions immiediately cuts two ways. First, I think it tends to show us who they really are. Second, and secondarily, it means that those three had the opportunity to rise to the occasion in the public eye.
Meanwhile, everyone else could wallow in bullshit, with no worries about the consequences, because nobody really cared what they thought. So we experienced some self-indulgent lag time in the resurgence of integrity there . . . .
Look, I was one of the first to see the missed call and the first to post a link to the video. I noted then that it was a terrible call. But the inescapable infererence from GringoFuck’s post and the reactions of many others is not that it was just a terrible call but that the call made Joyce a terrible man….
We’ve heard a lot about “accountability”, HE MUST BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE!!! He denied “the kid” (28, BTW) his “place in history”… hell, he fucking made “the kid” immortal, ferchrissakes. Shit, if he got the call right he’d probably have cost the fucker a few hundred grand. Gallarga sholud get on his knees and thank Jim the right way, the San Francisco way… night all…
I’ve been out all day and just saw the topic du jour. Well put by Flav and Pawlie.
To me, this doesn’t even come close to the Denkinger call in the ’85 WS. That play cost the Cards the game and the Series — although the Cards also contributed to their own demise that inning and then mailed it in in Game 7. All Joyce did was cost a perfect game and a bit of history, big fucking deal. Galarraga might even end up getting more fame out of this.
As for replay, I can take it or leave it, tho’ I do like it for the HRs. And I don’t think Selig should’ve reversed it. What’s done is done.
Sorry, didn’t see Xoots’ post, not trying to “out me-first” him, just saying that my first reaction was anger at the call. But like most sensible and mature non-fuckwads, I took a deeper look and saw it for what it was , just an unfortunate human mistake at a very bad time. If Gallaraga was the idiot that so many of Joyce’s most rabid critics have been, there could have been REAL tragedy yesterday. That he kept his cool might have averted a full scale riot, with injuries or worse. Again, all of the principles in this episode acted admirably, the media acted reprehensibly, aiding and abetting the GringoFucks among us…
Yeah, I noticed the upside for the “kid,” too. Hard to distinguish one perfecto from another when they occur too often. But a stolen perfecto, well, that’s something else again.
But aren’t we really considering the role of umpire in the game? Umps started out as the masters. They wore stiff suits and collars and stood imperiously far from the fray (no protective gear), and their calls were law. Over the years things have changed dramatically. The umps got down in the trenches and got none of the glory. Today, they’re the only thing close to blue collar guys on the field. Yet they’re still in charge of the yard.
My kids have grown up playing baseball on the field and on the computer. Maybe it won’t be a terrible shock to young fans when computers take over play calling. I’m sure mlb will love it, in any event.
Not saying that Mr. Gallarga would have chosen this over the alternative.. if there is a humorous angle, it is the nature of celebrity and how much moolah those 15 minutes can score. As Thor told B.C., high upon a hill with a beautiful sunset before them:
“There’s a buck to be made there”
And unrest was born…
I don’t think Joyce should have owned up to blowing the call. He should have used the bobble defense. One point I haven’t heard much at all is that if Galaragga was late covering the bag he should have been charged with an error.
I see I’ve been spelling the pitcher’s name wrong, but he is a forgiving fella.
I know this poet and umpire:
http://www.syracuse.com/kirst/index.ssf/2010/06/post_53.html
I feel really sorry for Joyce. I mean think about it, if he had one more eye, just one more eye, he could be a cyclops.
Sorry, an old Ump heckle (I think it got me on ESPN at a Zephyrs game in NOLA during the 94 strike).
Much more polite than the old chestnut, Blue, get on your knees if you’re going to blow the call.
I feel bad for Jim Joyce and for Galarraga, but I felt worse for the guy who got that bum call when Leslie Neilson was umping in ‘The Naked Gun’.