What Needs To Happen From Here on Out For Us To Win the Division
Winning the division really is our only goal right now. I just don’t think the WC will be realistic for us–too many good teams in the NL East–and at least one of those Big 3 (Braves, Mets, Phillies) will make some loud noise at the trade deadline–Sabes won’t compete with that….
It’s easy to be negative and harp on the failings of the first half—The older bloated salary vet guys have sucked. Our BP (minus Wilson) was awful. The SP has been mediocre. Pablo Sandoval has turned into Guy Sularz, at least from a production standpoint….
But look at what’s gone mindblowingly RIGHT for us: Huff, Torres, Uribe, Posey, Bumgarner, Burrell, Whiteside and Freddy Sanchez have ALL done more than I thought they would *this* year. Those were 8 home runs for Sabean, as far as I’m concerned– and he gets additional props for the guys he passed on signing (Penny, Nick Johnson, etc)….And turning Molina into anything other than a worn out bra strap was genius– Ray looks like a very stabilizing force for us in the BP…….
But we’re not winning the division “as-is”. I don’t think we need to add anyone, certainly not until the Ishikawa thing gets played out. Burrell, too. If either or both of those guys maintain their level of success we set positionally. Obviously we can’t have any big injuries but that’s the same for all the fringe playoff teams. There are certain guys we’d miss less than others but that’s a topic for another day. With everything that’s gone RIGHT this year, all we really need to win this division is for some of the things that have gone colossally WRONG to right themselves—Pablo, the SP, the BP– any of those 3 get fixed and we are good to go. Maybe 2 of 3 depending on which 2. But we aren’t that far away. We don’t need a “Derek Lee” or a “David Freaking DeJesus”. We need the YOUNG guys we counted on going into the season to start living up to expectations: Pablo, Cain, Timmy, Dirrrrrrrrty. Those guys need to step it up starting today. Let’s hope they’re “second half” guys…….
REGARDING THE NEWEST CONTEST: Please get your picks in to me or twin by 5pm today. Give us your prediction for W/l total at end of season and whether you think we make the playoffs. So far I’ve only got about 10, not sure how many TWIN has. He’s putting up a big prize so I hope we get enough entrants to justify doing it….
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
I agree Flav, if any/all of those guys step it up we’ve already gotten better without giving up anything.
And, depending on the standings, we could trade after the deadline and not worry to much about waiver blocks.
I’ve said at least twice that the Wild Card is going to be tough to pull off, so I agree with your premise, that taking the Division is the “easier and softer” way. Actually, one of your “Big 3” is already in 1st place (Atlanta), but I get your drift . . . These teams are contending for the Wild Card:
Team W L GB GLeft
Colorado Rockies 49 39 — 74
Los Angeles Dodgers 49 39 — 74
New York Mets 48 40 1.0 74
Philadelphia Phillies 47 40 1.5 75
San Francisco Giants 47 41 2.0 74
St. Louis Cardinals 47 41 2.0 74
Florida Marlins 42 46 7.0 74
Sheesh, probably not going to happen, but you can add the Brewers to the list too (they are 9.5 games back).
While the pitching hasn’t been up to par of late, and we could certainly do without all the walks, it’s not all that different than at this point last year, also thru 88 games.
2009: 3.51 ERA
2010: 3.50 ERA
2009: 324 runs
2010: 330 runs
2009: 305 ER
2010: 309 ER
There were about a dozen well-pitched games the Giants lost, and it seemed like half of that were against the Padres. Hopefully, the emergence of Buster and Ishi and the addition of Burrell will keep such losses to a minimum over the second half. Especially against the Padres.
Disagree with the WC premo…STL will pass Reds and win their Div. We are couple games out right now, so if we finish second in West, eminently doable. I don’t see a short term fix coming, and I think trading an arm for a bat is dumb right now (off season, maybe not). Everyone is looking for more arms, so comp there is going to be tough. Lightning in a bottle guy somewhere? LA thought they had it in Sherrill….
As for the teams making deals, it’s how the new guys they acquire work out. Remember Winn when he first came here, whacking HRs? Braves move to dump Escobar is curious, see how that works out. How many more moves do Phills, Mets and Reds et al make to try and get in?
Imo, all have weaknesses (not just SF)…..should be fun to see how it plays out. SF is right there, and I don’t buy Henry’s doomer take in the Chron about what Sabes needs to do….it’s the players he has, like Flav says.
For the most part I agree, but I think ‘standing pat’ results in a second place finish in both the wild card and the division at best. Guys having great years – can they keep it up? Guys with down years – can they pull out of it? Not sure if you can reasonably expect the same production (both positive and negative) from a roster who is anything but consistent. And if the net balance is that we see the same aggregate production over the 2nd half, is that enough in itself to come out on top? Well…we’re 4 back, in 4th place in the division, behind at least 2 teams that are better positioned for a second half surge (Rox and Bums) so the numbers show it’s not quite enough ‘as is’.
I’m not hell bent at ‘win at costs’ or ‘drain the farm’ to get players in here, but in my opinion, they need to minimize the margin for error to give them a better chance to win, and that means adding piece(s), even if means trading away some value (if that means minor league talent, so be it – we’ve seen how great ‘can’t miss’ guys like Alderson and Rios turned out to be, so they are a crapshoot at best) to do so.
Carpe Diem!
Can someone please tell me why the hell we’re still going to carry 13 pitchers? We know Uribe has been bothered with the ring problem. Now I guess Torres will miss another start tonight because his groin still isn’t 100%. I always thought a 12-man staff was a bit of a stretch, but going with 13 given our current state of health of our position players is totally asinine. The second half has even started and I’m already pissed off.
and an all-star break to boot should have rested the bullpen plenty…how about a Bowker re-appearance for a lefty off the bench while Nate and Ishikawa are starting??
Dennis – another nugget of ultimate wisdom by Bochy. Falls under the ‘Posey can’t catch at the MLB level’ logic stream. Not sure WTF he is thinking sometimes…
“We’ll stay at 13 until we think we need a change,” Bochy said. “We’re probably a little short on the bench. I don’t quite have the flexibility I want…”
Probably a little short? Not quite the flexibility you want? I better bite my tongue or I’ll end up taking a walk over to see what Chuck’s goats are up to this morning. Unbelievable.
kinda bummed to hear that Torres isn’t ready yet. What’s one more day going to do he’s already had like 5 days off from playing. I hope he’s not looking at a DL stint, he had one last year with a leg injury too……
The Dodgers have what is probably the toughest schedule of any team in the majors over the remainder of the season. Of their final 74 games, 58 are against teams with records above .500. No other team in the majors has more than 47.
This is part of Henry’s article in the Chron
Five keys to the second half
1. Better clutch hitting. The Giants’ .246 average with runners in scoring position ranks 14th in the NL.
2. Throwing strikes. The Giants have issued the most walks (362) in the majors, and that has cost them wins.
3. A bat and a relief pitcher. General manager Brian Sabean must work diligently to acquire one more hitter and an experienced setup man.
4. Stamina. Manager Bruce Bochy must keep Aubrey Huff, Buster Posey and Juan Uribe fresh. Their bats will be critical down the stretch.
5. Pablo Sandoval. The third baseman does not have to be a .330 hitter again, but he needs to rediscover some of that Panda magic.
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/14/SP2N1EEC6E.DTL#ixzz0tlmW8D5b
Late word now is that Larry Ellison is getting fed up with Cohan’s ultimate demand price of $450M and is pulling out. Sale likely going now to the Mandalay group. The Warriors are one fucked up organization.
You got that right, Dennis. I really thought Ellison would be a good owner. Too bad.
I agree best chance is to win the West, and I still think they do, even if they do not pick-up any pieces. That said, I still wouldn’t mind seeing them add someone like Willingham without giving up the farm. And I still think they could use a reliable set-up guy in the pen.
Supposedly, Warriors deal is done.
Golden State Warriors Sell for Record $450 Million
http://tinyurl.com/2at64zt
wow, what a shocking turn. Maybe Ellison can now buy the Kings and bring them to San Jose…
Flavor and Twin – I just sent you my predictions for the contest.
Dennis: Yes that 13 man staff with nobody on the bench thinking escapes me as well. Did NOT see that coming. In fact i’m on record here as predicting that would be straightened out during the break. Whassup? Is the Brass that scairt of a meltdown by the 2-4 starters? That’s the only possible rational explanation. Otherwise its a case of Bochdementia.
WSW: Thanx for the good info on the LaBumbos schedule. If anyone thinks the Giants have holes, just look at that P.S. down in LA. IF the Pads pick up a big bat, they could stay on top. Otherwise, their starters should wear down and their RISP magic may also tail off. Rox may be the biggest worry right now because of their relative lack of holes. Though again, they may be a bit short on quality SPs.
And you have to remember, the Rox have been playing without Tulowitzki.
I still like the Giants chances.
Key things that need to change:
Improve with RISP.
Decrease number of BBs allowed.
Beat the fucking NL West opponents.
add in Uggla to the Rocks and they are even more threeatening, but I think they have big question marks about their pitching staff…
Thanks for reminding me, Chi. I need to send in mine. Final W/L record and playoffs or not, right?
Yep.
Good. So now Ellison can buy out the Burns family and run the Giants… Everything has to go right for SF to win the division, Pen fixed, Panda hitting, Uribe/Huff/Posey don’t get hurt, SP gets a little better, Rocks don’t make the usual run, Pads pitching falls to earth and Black forgets how to manage. Could happen, but the poor first half against the division can’t be sugar coated — nothing good will happen unless they step it up big time in the divisional games. I still stick with SF 2nd in the Div to Colorado and win the WC — need 87 or 88 wins to do that. A WC playoff game seems a real possibility this year…
GH you got hoodwinked by BLADE on that trade. Hughes for Soriano? Soriano is one of if not the best closer in the league right now….
Flav, if I was not killing the league in saves I would not have made the deal. I think I have 20 more saves than the next person in the league. So I dont expect to lose more than one or two points on saves, but hopefully now I can make a move on Wins and Ks on my way to fantasy league victory…
Not sure if this was the reason or not, but if our rotation holds true, Timmy will miss the Phillies when we face them there in mid-August. Not even sure Uncle Charlie can think that far ahead, but maybe a little birdie told him so. Could pay dividends in a tightly contested playoff chase.
Xoot reports that that the Art Vandalay group has agreed to purchase the Warriors.
Good. They can EXPORT Cohan right outta town.
Word is that Steinbrenner left the $ to “Art” for the purchase….
Back to the schedule (BTW – thanks for the numbers on the Bums, WSW), the Giants play 45 with teams that are over .500. 43 against the NL West, 16 against the NL Central, and 15 against the East.
Twin, I posted a link earlier where the Warrior sale is done, pending league/owners approval.
Golden State Warriors Sell for Record $450 Million
http://tinyurl.com/2at64zt
This Warriors sale netting this idiot Cohan a windfall either proves life is not fair or there is no God…hopefully the gods at the IRS take most of his proceeds…
The MLBTR poll, presumably not limited to Giants’ fans, has the Giants leading in their poll as to who is best positioned to win the division.
http://tinyurl.com/243gx45
I saw that, and of course, had to throw in my vote for the los Gigantes…
Chi, I know… “Art Vandalay” is a fictional architect, one of George’s “aliases” in Seinfeld.
DOH! Didn’t even pay attention to the name…just saw “Warriors sale.”
I just voted as well Twin..of course for teh Gigantes…
Flavor is overstating how much DeJesus is playing “over his head”. His OBP has been very consistent throughout his career-low of .347, high of .364. It’s too simple to just “nay” him, if he can be had for a couple prospects- absolutely yes. For Sanchez or Bumgarner-resounding no.
So, the Warriors go from an idiot to a Guber . . .
Brilliant.
Actually, this gives me hope that Larry will buy the 49ers in the (hopefully) near future . . .
Chuck – that would be cool…but too bad the Niners are not for sale (and unlikely to be anytime soon).
I assume from what I have been reading about the Red Sox, they are going to grab DeJesus and they have more and better prospects to put into a deal than we can…
My thoughts on the 13 man pitching staff – there are only two relief pitchers with minor league options left, Romo and Martinez, plus Runzler before heading to the DL. Any roster move in the pen for any other guy would result in submitting the guy to waivers. Which guy would we waive for the purpose of bringing up a position player?
Right, D.O. Sabean said they would go back to a 12 man staff post-ASB. Martinez is the logical move.
If you wanted to outright waive a guy, I’d say Bautista or Mota. They’re essentially the same damn pitcher. But if we’re concerned about losing either one of them, then I’d just ship Joe back to Fresno. I’ve seen enough of his act as well. 13 pitchers is just goddamn ridiculous.
DaddyO, you think we need to worry about Denny Bautista???
I think Bautista is the first one shown the door, but I sense with how shaky the pen is overall, not knowing which guy will have it on any given day, they must feel they need them all. Like having a larger box of crayons from which to choose.
I agree…if anyone goes…my first choice would be Denny “I can’t throw a fucking strike ot save my life” Bautista.
Not only ridiculous, if Torres is still gimpy, we will have just three bench players for the series, with one being Whitside. So we essentially go into a critical 4 game series with two pinch-hitters, Renteria and Burrell? Really is a joke…
All the more reason to add a player like DeJesus or Willingham (as long as they are had for a couple of prospects)…
Even if everyone stayed healthy, Burrell could then come off the bench more often, as opposed to being a starter.
If the Giants did land an OFer, who goes? It would be either Nate or Burrell. Does Nate have options left?
if they only carried 12 pitchers, they will automatically have a roster spot opened then…
No more minor league options for either Nate or Travis.
Who has the final say in the matter, Bochy or Sabean? I want to know whose name to curse should we have to PH Madison and he pulls a Runzler. This shit isn’t funny.
I’m guessing Bochy…what the fuck is he thinking carrying 13 pitchers when Torres is still gimpy. I just don’t fucking get it…
Really it is probably a Sabean decision on roster matters. I am sure he seeks Bochy’s advice, but the buck stops with the GM…
How does a team improve on its “clutch hitting”? By trading for “clutch hitters”? It really is unbelievable that writers for major outlets still trot out that nonsense.
I think they can stand pat with what they’ve got and contend for the WC. Sandoval rebounds, Posey stays consistend, Ishikawa doesn’t sink below .270, the pitching staff pulls it together and they’re good. Trade some prospects for a defensive upgrade at SS.
Blade made some good points about Cain yesterday.
Sabean will inevitably make a move. One way or another it is going to be Cain or Sanchez for a bat. Who’s it gonna be?
If we dont make the playoffs this year, then I think Cain will be dangled in the off-season for an impact bat. If we make the playoffs this year and come up short and had not moved Sanchez before this trade deadline, then I think they dangle Sanchez for an upgraded hitter for the OF or 1B…
I can see either of those happening. Cain would bring more in return but then SF has a heavily lefthanded rotation. Probably Sanchez in the OS playoffs or not.
Regarding the Dodgers, wswinb4igo makes an outstanding point (that I heard one of the ESPN talk radio analysts made last week as the All Star break approached) . . .
“The Dodgers have what is probably the toughest schedule of any team in the majors over the remainder of the season. Of their final 74 games, 58 are against teams with records above .500. No other team in the majors has more than 47.”
we still need to turn the table on the Bastardos and take both of the series we have against them coming up…
“Our BP (minus Wilson) was awful. The SP has been mediocre.” Macdog offered a general refutation already, but I’ll chime in with a specific defense of Romo. Anyone with a WHIP of .927 and an ERA of 2.21 has by no conceivable standard been “awful.”
Dirt, I still like DeJesus (Mike thanks for pointing out his consistency in regard to OBP) . . . I also like the fact his contract is good for next year too at approx. 6 million dollars. If you are looking for a power hitter, yeah, he aint it. However, at Phone Park, I think that’s essentially a moot point for just about everyone not named Barry Bonds. This guy (DeJesus) gets on base consistently (1.3 hits per AB), plays great defense, is flexible (any OF position), and is a good teammate.
I wouldn’t overpay either, but as GH points out, our competition for DeJesus’s services are the Red Sox and they are rarely wrong.
agree Blade…Red Sox are savy and if they arecircling, I am pretty confident they land him like they did Victor Martinez last year while Sabean ended up with Garko…
Well, Romo struggled early, but hasn’t left that frisbee slider hanging in the zone lately.
It’s all hot and cold and up and down with these relievers. Ray has been solid sonce he got here. Romo has been the best in recent memory of the others.
One other thing about trading our starting pitchers . . . There is a lot to be said for trading them at their perceived “high,” if Giants’ management believes that they have reached their “zenith.”
. . . and HELL NO, I am not saying that is the case with any of our starters because I’m only a fan and don’t no jack. However, they (Sabes, Bochy and his staff) do know (or at least are in the best position to know) and if they want to pull the trigger on a trade of one of our starters, I’m all for it. I love risk takers because the rewards are so much bigger and better. Conversely, “playing it safe” defines mediocrity.
Totally agree. I think Sanchez is probably peaking but Cain can still improve.
*know (not no)
Shit, making all kinds of errors here – I meant 1.3 hits per 3.9 ABs. Sorry, typing is getting ahead of my brain cell action.
You’re too young to have your cheese be slipping off your cracker, Blade.
DeJesus fits the needs better for the Padres than for the Giants. San Diego’s leadoff hitters are a combined .205 BA with .280 OBP, scoring 42 runs in 88 games.
watching these stories about the Warriors sale is really interesting. Ellison has put out a statement that he had the highest bid on the table, but Cohan chose to sell to the other bidder.
It seems Ellison bid $400 mill for 80% while the other group bid $450 mill for the full 100% control…
There was chatter going around at one time the Ellison wanted West to GM. Ellison or the Mandalay group. Who cares? Put West in there and the team is in the playoffs within 2 years. The Logo knows how to build a team.
“I love risk takers because the rewards are so much bigger and better. ”
Or, to put it another way…”No Balls, No Blue Chips.”
If and when you trade a ML SP, the reward better outweigh the risk…I agree with this guy.
tinyurl.com/29sgbxx
Good news: Jose Reyes who was originally in the Mets lineup and leading off has been replaced by Ruben Tejada. Every little bit helps.
fuck Romo, he lost at least 3 games for us all by himself. I don’t want him anywhere near the 8th inning……
At ATT, Romo can pitch the 8th inning…On the road, Flav may have had a point. I will say, he’s been getting it done home and away lately.
Love this . . . “You’re too young to have your cheese be slipping off your cracker, Blade.”
Chi, I have some friends that are losing brain cells at a faster rate than I am, i.e., thank you for the great line!
My pleasure, Blade…er, now WTF were we just talking about? 😉
Romo scares me. Even the other day when he got out of the bases loaded jam, that “get it in” slider is spooky. But hard to argue that he hasn’t been the best, right now he and Ray are the late guys.
The guy definitely throws strikes most of the time. I suppose (even tho he has been taken yard a few times) that it beats the hell outta Bautista and his 8 consecutive balls outta the zone.
I wonder if Mota’s 3 losses weren’t “on his own” or were qualitatively better kinds of losses than Romo’s. I also don’t know what to make of Runzler’s 3-0 record.
Someone mentioned Romo hasn’t been hanging sliders lately. Actually, I Rodriquez missed a hanger from Romo when he flew out to center in that last game. As I’ve posted before, it’s complete bullshit that major league hitters “always make you pay for your mistakes.” They frequently hit them foul, pop them up etc.
Can’t really say he is attacking the zone with the slop he serves up but Romo thows strikes. It doesn’t look pretty but the dude knows how to pitch. He’s definately got a better idea of what he’s doing out there than some of the other arms in the BP.
Rowand hits the knuckler well. Hope it continues tonight.
Rowand CF, Sanchez 2B, Huff LF, Posey C, Ishikawa 1B, Uribe SS, Sandoval 3B, Schierholtz RF, Lincecum P
I’m already on record here saying I knocked down that 15/1 on them winning the west, so obviously I think they make the playoffs…As far as win total goes, I don’t want them losing 70, so I’ll say they win 93 games….
So you saying 92-70 won’t be enough? Shit, my 88 wins looks like an abject failure in comparison.
I’m hopin whatever # of wins they have is enough to make it…I like 69…sue me!
Posey and Ishi 4th and 5th…Ain’t that a hoot!
Giants sign the D-Train to a minor league deal.
http://tinyurl.com/2c2p3e8
D-train to the Giants, though he’s been derailed for years. Why?….
It’s a no-risk move. Ain’t gonna hurt nothing if he continues to stink up the joint.
But I have to think at least part of the reason behind the signing is he’s another back-up plan should be deal a starter. Have to.
Just saw the D Train deal. Hey, why not? This means Sanchez is on the block.
Just kidding . . .
Willis is the lefthanded bat Sabean has been talking about?
Looks like insurance for a possible trade of another starter. Not that it’s a good one by any means, but what do you have to lose? Local kid, pitcher’s park, maybe another Burrell story…
That’s what I like about this country . . . Everyone gets a second chance – sometimes more. Like Dennis said, it’s a no-risk move. Moreover, I think we can all agree that Willis is a fine young man. Here’s wishing that he makes the most of his opportunity and succeeds (if not here, somewhere else and/or doing something else).
More turmoil in LaLa Land . . . http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/news/story?id=5382706
Gotta love it 🙂
Willis can go ahead and fill out the AAA roster, that’s fine. But hoping for anything even approaching Wellemeyer is a fantasy. Dude is done, it happens to a lot of guys. Thems the breaks, dig?
I’m pretty stoked about the W’s sale today. Sure Ellison would have been nice but these guys are in the NBA right now and they have deep pockets. I’d rather have an ownership who has experience with deep pockets than an ownership with no experience and deep pockets. And I’ve re-thought the Lee deal. my biggest problem was the 6 year thing but we are in a position that we HAVE to go big and overpay if we want anyone to come here. He’ll be great for at least 3 years. And the dude from Miami was a fucking coup signing. I dunno, maybe it’s the sale or whatever but I’m extremely hopeful right now for our team. In fact, i think they’re going to be decent next year……..
Just added my two bits to the MLBTR poll where the Giants now lead the LaBumbos by appx 33% to 25%, with the Rox at 23% and the current leaders, the Pads at 18+%. C’mon, we’re doing our bit, but proportionally there can’t be that many Giants fans skewing that poll. Many of the respondents have to be MLBTR regular posters, favoring various teams across baseball.
Flavor: sent you an E-Mail with some picks for the contest.
ok twin I’ll check it in a min…..
Rowand starting tonight probably has more to do with his knuckleball numbers than Torres needing another day. But that’s fine, tonight is actually a reason to play AR. Torres can come back tomorrow. Watching these 3 chumps pick there “Pick of the game” to perform or whatever that’s call is a joke. Beltran? Please, not tonight, nice try Radfuck. And Bip picking Pablo is nothing more than just random chance…….
I think we beat these guys fairly easy tonight. 6-2, 6-4 , something like that……
and yes, I bet on it. I went with the -1.5 runs to win +130 just cause I think we storm them tonight……..
Bengie had a jack and a couple of ribbies tonight . . . Good for him 🙂
Unca Charley did them a favor. Nice to have Tim to jump start (we hope) the second half… although a knuckleballer may not be ideal for the bats, we’ll see…