Clinging Tightly to What I Know to be True: Zito Sucks
While I am of course happy the Giants won last night I’m not going to starting singing Zito’s praises. He deserves some credit for pitching 3 good games in a row. But I am sticking to the facts: the first one was against the Cubs who swung at everything he threw up there, the next game was that weird rain delay game, and last night he handled the Padres, a team that might have a worse offense than we do. So I am not a believer of any of this. He still sucks.
I will give him credit for pitching in the strike zone better than I’ve ever seen him do it. There’s nothing more infuriating than watching Zito pitch and be deathly afraid of contact….
While I’m happy he’s not imploding, I will never trust him before one of his starts. I might be the last one shaking my head *no* but I will never believe in Barry Zito. Call it *hating* or whatever, but I just don’t believe in any of this right now…….
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Cubs are a most unbalanced team between some very well-paid position players and some rather questionable pitching. Boston has somewhat the same conundrum. I wonder if Zito’s recent performances could tempt either of these outfits in the direction of a salary swap.
Speaking of Boston… at least someone in Beantown is thinking the same:
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2011/07/a_trade_proposa.html?comments=all
You may have to register to read- if so, someone comment and I’ll post the text wholesale- the teaser:
—–
By Peter Abraham, Globe Staff
John Lackey is 32 and has approximately $53.38 million remaining on the final 3.5 years of his contract.
Barry Zito is 33 and has $55.25 million remaining on the final 3.5 years of his deal.
You see where I’m going with this?
Trade Lackey for Zito straight up. Trade one problem pitcher for another.
—–
Frankly I wouldn’t make this one- elbows are really important, and while Zito may not always have control like last night, at least his arm is healthy enough to eat up innings.
Just celebrate the wins because they’re so difficult to come by. Every game is a struggle with few exceptions.
Did you just make that up? Or did you read that from a fortune cookie?
The fortune-cookie vernacular, or patois, has a strange, distinctively hollow quality, doesn’t it?
You have to take them one day at a time. Every day is a new day. Dain Dailey. You may have won yesterday but that does not project what might happen today. Doris Day. It’s a day to day grind. Enjoy the day but don’t sit on your laurels. Tomorrow is another day. Tyne Daly. Every day is a new beginning.
“That wasn’t chicken that you ate.”
“Help! I’m being held prisoner in a Chinese bakery!”
Sounds like AA.
EW…”the guy can pitch.” Yes, it’s just that it has occurred so seldom in the last 4 years the rest of us are just a tad cynical about when it actually does. In the dick williams rehashes, I saw the name Blue Moon Odom mentioned…and that’s zito. He’s actually good once in a blue moon. If it wasn’t for the contract, which can’t possibly ever be ignored, he’d have been on 6 teams by now, and long gone from SF.
Had to laugh at this one in SF chron digest section, “Washington (UW) announced that Shawn Kemp Jr. signed a scholarship to play basketball at the school.” Can’t remember where I first heard it but that used to be joke… Q: What are the 5 most popular names given to boys born last year?
A: Ryan, Jason…..and Shawn Kemp Jr.
WD (40?) i can definitely relate to the frustration. and with his fb topping out at 85, he’s going to have to be really good with the curve and changeup. hopefully someone will bite and we can get a hitter.
Zito could have a long career…there have been plenty of guys in baseball who pitched successfully for a long time without having 90 plus stuff….including the guy whom the surgery is named after, Tommy John. I just hope it happens somewhere else, and we don’t have to watch him or listen to his feeble excuses that give a wonderful belief system like Zen a bad name. remember when he was 0-8? It’s the same guy.
Yes, he’s the same guy… and no, he’s not. I hear ya, I don’t trust him either and yes, he has sucked and been so disappointing in his time in SF. And I also will not be surprised if/when he implodes. That’s likely when, not if, but whatever.
The facts are, yeah, it was only the Cubs, but the Cubs beat us the next two games of that series… in that rain delay game, I doubt there was another starter that would’ve taken the mound again after a couple of hours, and pitch well and win it… and yeah, it’s the Padres who pretty much suck but who have also pretty much beaten the Giants fairly handily the past couple of years, and that win split the series heading into the last weekend before the break. Um… I’m gonna give him some credit here. Everyone here keeps waiting for Vogelsong to implode, and that hasn’t really happened… It’s kinda cool. On we go.
On we go.
Oswego
Until Jonathan’s non-injury heals, they have to ride Zito. If he gives even one more decent start, it’s about 3 more than I expected.
When Bubbles implodes, Drrrty gets his spot in the rotation back.
Trego, Montana. James Wego, my 10th grade history teacher. Togo, Minnesota. Got to go now.
You guys doing a commercial for Bing?
What does Chandler from “Friends” have to do with this?
If my name was Chandler Bing, I woulda shot myself in the face years ago…
Zito always pulls out these random acts of goodness when least expected. Lincecum and Cain lose, Bumgarner struggles and along comes Barry dancing in the rain like Mary Poppins bringing joy and happiness.
Maybe he has finally accepted that he’s a junk ball pitcher and made the adjustment. Who knows? We all know he’ll suck again soon enough.
You would hardly be the last guy shaking his head, Craig. You’ve been on and off the “he’s back” bandwagon, juat as most. For better or worse, It is only I who has told you all: he is evil incarnate. The forces I set loose last year did save us, however.He sucked so badly in the final San Diego series that Bochy kept him off the postseason roster. So more than the busty bitch who set the hamster free, it was I (and my forces of good) who was responsible for the World Series win..
Given the chance, Zits will always fuck us when it hurts most. Without my intervention, it would have been a faceplant in the postseason..
The forces you set loose?
From all of us here, thanks . . .
Damn straight, Chucklefuck..
No go do that voodoo that you do so well
I think you’re preaching to the choir, Flav. I don’ t hear anybody on here claiming that Zito has turned the corner and we can now count on him to be a reliable starter. We all think he sucks, we all hold our breath when he takes the mound, and we’d all sign off on sending him and his contract somewhere for a bag of balls faster than you can say “greatest salary dump of all-time.” And I still hold firm to my claim that he is the worst free agent signing in the history of ALL pro sports.
However, we all know he ain’t going anywhere and I think his only use is as a starter. Given that, I’m fine with the guy holding down a spot in the rotation if we package Sanchez in a trade for a quality bat like Cuddyer, Reyes, or Pence. He is what he is—a guy who will go about 8-12 every year and give you some innings. We can still win it all with a guy like that in the 5 spot. I know Sanchez gives us more than that, but I’ve lost confidence that he gives us a huge upgrade over Barry.
AND, if any of his problems are mental—which I suspect cuz it ain’t like he threw 93 in his Oakland days, he should be in a good spot now as there are ABSOLUTELY no expectations for him to do much and the team finally has a ring. He knows that if he can give us 5 innings of 3 run ball, we’ll all be ecstatic.
TRADE SANCHEZ FOR A BAT, GIVE ZITO THE BALL EVERY 5 DAYS AND HOPE FOR THE BEST. DAMN THE TORPEDOES!!!!!
SanDawg, Dennis will contend that A***S***** is the worst signing in all of sports, But just like Zito is still a Giant, A***S**** is still a Niner!! Dennis your rebuttal??
Never give up pitching.
Care to elaborate?
As I’ve said, I think trading Dirrty relies more on how high they are on Surkamp than anything to do with Zits or Vogelsong. If they don’t think Surkamp is a MLB starter they’d be fucking crazy to trade Dirty .
Zito trade talk is useless. It never will go anywhere. Zito may be a dog but he’s stuck in the Giants kennel.
Is there really anyone left who thinks Zits can be traded?
Sure. As per my initial posting today, citing a team like the Cubs with a flock of overpaid position players and sparse pitching in a bandbox. In a pretty much straight up salary swap they could see themselves achieving better balance via what they could presume would be an innings-eating pitching upgrade. These three games Zito has proven once again that he CAN pitch ~ when he feels like it or whatever. Statistics don’t lie whether or not liars cite statistics. Maybe a major- market loser like Chicago would take such a plunge…And who knows? Zito might do well with a change of scenery.
But the other side of the coin is do the Giants want to trade Zito for another Zito? A Ztio-lite, if you will
And just to be clear, I’m not necessarily saying a bad pitcher for another bad pitcher. I’m using “Zito” more as a metaphor
Only if the trade is to the A’s and the Giants give up the rights for San Jose.
And a wink, wink, nudge, nudge to xoot on that one.
Even I gave up on proposing Zito deals. Forget about it. And he has a full no trade clause to boot…
He would thrive in a “bandbox”? That makes as much sense as him pitching in the AL East. Yeah, he “can” pitch occasionally. To the tune of 43-58 4.40. If we paid everything, we might get another third string catcher..
Even under SanDawg’s plan, Zito could still be left off the postseason roster…
The thing that worries me about Bubbles is if he continues to be semi-decent, Bochy rewards him with a spot in the post-season rotation.
I guess we burn that bridge when we get there . . . I suppose he can hide there like El Presidente did last postseason.
Obviously that would depend on whether there other options- last year there was MadBum. If they trade Dirty, it could just be Vogelsong.How he’ll look come October is pretty unclear.
Well, if Vogie, Drrty, and Bubbles are all on the roster, then what? Well, one of them is in the pen. It’s going to be Sanchez at first. He’ll take Mota’s spot. After that, I guess it’s a race to see who can pitch more consistenly (or who doesn’t implode). Vogie has pretty much locked down his spot, barring a total meltdown.
I wonder if the org is tiring of Sanchez. In reality, his stint on the DL is nothing more than a demotion. He’s still very inconsistent, even with his electric stuff. Shit, the way they’ve been using Mota, HE could be an emergency starter and long reliever, and they could trade Drrrty, and still have Vogie as the 4.
In the playoffs . . .
Hey snarkk.
Don’t know if you saw it or not, but I posted on a couple places to eat in Richmond on the last thread (last post actually). Not sure if you were looking for any places but stuck them out there just in case you were looking for any recommendations.
Sabean alluded to what Twinfan is saying. That they need to have a strong fallback position. And added they need to make sure the guy they are getting is an impact bat.
That translates to “I’m scared shitless we’ll end up with another Garko on our hands.”
I took Sabean’s comments to be very conducive to making a deadline deal. He talked about having to be “more open minded” in regards to grabbing a rental this year given our circumstances. And as opposed to years past when he’s ruled out trading away starting pitching, he didn’t rule it out this time.
I think Sabean knows damn well if the Giants want to make hay in the postseason, they’re gonna need some outside help. Smart guy. He must read my comments.
And laugh like a mofo . . .
Crazy stat of the day. The last time Zito went 8 innings was nearly 10 years ago.
A 1-0 decision over the Mets on July 16, 2001 . . .
Chuck. 8 innings without a walk.
Don’t wanna see Sanchez traded for a few month’s rental of Beltran or any similar hitter. Drrrty has long-term value to whoever would get him. A Beltran would surely stiffen the middle of the SF lineup and would probably get the Giants past Atlanta in the playoffs. Would such an addition get them past Philadelphia? Open question. Might could hold my hands over the eyes and go along with Surkamp going for Beltran, but probably not for a lesser hitter.
Just over 3 weeks remaining for Sabean to make a move. I’m sure the commentariat will be watching the current series quite closely to see whether its more likely Beltran goes in the direction of Boston or gets landed by the Giants.
Sabean’s comments were interesting. He also alluded to the club making the playoffs as is. He may just do nothing on the trade market.
We’ve got a chance to go back to back and bathe this already glamorous franchise in a whole new light. If we bring in some mercenary who gives us a better chance of making that happen before cashing in elsewhere in a few months, I’m totally fine with that.
This ain’t Boston or New York. We need the planets to align just right to be a world series contender. Currently, we have been fortunate enough to have that happen. Fuck what the team looks like 3-4 years from now. I want to go ALL IN RIGHT NOW in search of another ring.
Even the Comcast Doomers like Ratto and Kawakami concede that the Giants are winning the division. Unlike last year they don’t even need acquisitions to do it. And the argument that they’d be patsies in the postseason doesn’t hold up, either. They won it hitting .235 but holding their opponents at the Mendoza Line. Always was, always will be about the pitching. Stop the kvetching and enjoy the team we have, the, ahem, WORLD CHAMPS..
Last year was LAST year. They had Buster, Fruckie, a red hot Clown, Uribe, a career year from Torres, an “on” year from Huff, etc…This year? Surely you can’t be serious? If they go into the postseason as is, they’re dog meat. What are they hitting now, .242? They’d be lucky to hit the Mendoza Line vs the Phils or Braves in the NLDS. What, our pitching is gonna hold them to a buck sixty-five? Good luck with that shit. You know goddamn well this team needs outside help for the postseason. Admit it, you Polly-bus-driving, toady.
Dennis your miniature ponies are waiting for their walks. Don’t forget.
Yeah, this lineup is gonna beat the Braves or Phils in the NLDS. It’s ironic that Al Michaels will be making the call tonight. He’d look at this shit lineup and surmise its postseason chances with, “do you believe in miracles?”
Torres CF, Crawford SS, Sandoval 3B, Huff 1B, Schierholtz RF, Rowand LF, Tejada 2B, Whiteside C, Vogelsong P
Lineup is who we got. Like other posters here who have joined my tirade along the line, i am NOT enamored with Huff n Puff batting cleanup until and unless he reverts to form as Huff the Magic Dragon. Frankly, i don’t give a shivering shit about the right-left harmonizing. Think they could bat Nate third, Pablo at cleanup, Rowand 5th and Huff sixth. If Aubrey has any gas in his tank he can still do some damage from that slot. It’s still faaar from ideal, but whadda you do with this array?
Do like the idea of Crawford in the two-hole. Was pushing the notion a couple weeks back, so was delighted that Bochy caught onto the same facts. Doesn’t matter if he is a “215 hitter” as his OBP hovers around .300 ; he frequently contributes to a rally and he has gone clutch more than once.
It’s funny, and this isn’t aimed at any one in particular just a general observation, but I’ve been reading and hearing arguments about who should bat leadoff, who should bat 3rd, who should bat cleanup, etc. etc. and most of it never has and may never matter to me. I’ll concede your best guy with pop/avg combo bats 3rd and with certain rosters there are some people you don’t want to place immediately before or after someone else but overall it never seems to matter to me. Look at today’s lineup. Besides Sandoval and maybe Torres, does it really matter where anyone else is over the course of 9 innings? Christ, even Vogelsong doesn’t *have* to bat 9th.
Whatever. Just rambling
I don’t know Ted if it is just rambling, I agree with you, other than the first inning, how many times will Torres lead off?? That has always been the question in baseball. it is all about who is hitting and who is not. Can Huff turn it around?? gotta beleive he will. Pitching is what got them to the WS last year and that is what is going to do it this year. How many teams went looking for a bat in the off season. Phillies went looking for pitching. Is the Giants pitching staff still up to the task? will the Phillies and Braves still fear the Giants pitching staff in the playoffs? HELL yes they will.
The thing about batting 1st is that spot gets up more than any other spot, so you want guys that get on base. Beyond that, whatever. But you figure just through the law of averages, the top 3 spots get 1 more AB than the bottom 6 every game. That shit adds up to around 150 more ABs. . . ergo . . .
This team is fine…….why the complaints? You better get a cold one.
On NY radio Bochy mumbled something to the effect that Sabean will get them what they need…
I hope he wasn’t referring to a speech pathologist.
Tonight’s the closest Vogelsong has been to league leaders qualification — only needs 4.2 innings.
Way too big a deal is made out of the 4 spot. Don’t say Shierholtz or my people wil find you… and why move Pablo in the middle of an 18 game streak? Ross and Burrell are the only other options. It’s just not a big a deal whether Huff is in the 4 or the 6.
Perhaps Bochy knows what he’s doing. He’s had plenty of experience.
Beltran said he will fly with the Giants’ traveling party to the All-Star Game on Sunday.
I’m sure it’s a matter of convenience and logistics, but still…
I’m telling ya, Bochy picking him for the ASG was the early olive branch and palm greaser…
I’m fine with picking up Beltran– ride him till he breaks down. But I wouldn’t give up dirrrry for him.
If you look at Huff’s down years, it would appear he *should* improve somewhat. May not get a HR boost but his BA and OPS should improve. And think of it this way-he’s due for a big 2012.. 😉
Beltran’s 2004 postseason was the greatest salary drive in history.
Second would be Rowand breaking his face on the outfield wall.
If you think the Giants lineup sucks, wait’ll you get a load of what the Mets are throwing out there…
What’s the weather forecast for tomorrow in your neck of the woods? Your favorite horse is going to scratch if the sod comes up soft.
Sunny – High 80’s
I’ll probably be there.
Sorry, the greatest salary drive in history has to be Bubbles epic 2006 16-10 season for the A’s.
Almost forgot Randy Winn’s 2 months with SF in 2005…
Spent some while checking out the Zoo of commentators on Baggarly’s site. Several of em would fit in here and a few would be typical contemporary Splashers. One of the better trends noticeable there was that very few posters opted for trading Drrrrty for Beltran. Some even pointed that as a LH starter who’s almost impossible to hit, Sanchez should bring a 24-28 Y.O. with some pretty decent offensive stats. If Michael Cuddyer of the Twins was not in his walk year, i could just about see a straight-up there. Some of the posters suggested Upton of the Rays. Other names were mentioned, including from both Texas teams. Point is, there was somewhat of a consensus among the more studied posters that Sabean holds a hot hand in Sanchez, one season before his F.A. year and that pitching hungry teams may be lurking.
I wouldn’t trade him for Cuddyer or Beltran. Of course, I would trade him for Upton. Dirrrrty is tricky, you don’t want to trade him for a *guy* but he’s not going to bring an *Upton*.
Kinda cool in a weird, ironic sorta way, Whitey getting the first hit of the game in the bottom of the third.
Situational hitting = fail. Up and down the entire lineup. Nobody gets the runner home from 3rd w/ < 2-outs. Inexcusable.
Ump missed strike 3 right down the middle of the plate on Bay.
Blue, Blue – if I gave you one eye, just one. you’d be a cyclops.
That’s – just one more eye.
Voggy gutted that inning out. Kruk was right though, it’s idiotic to throw a breaking ball first pitch of an at bat after you’ve walked 2 straight guys. I don’t know if that was Whiteside or a shake off by Voggy. Dumb on both of them……..
haha, what the hell was that????????
Panda, baby – pure Panda
My favorite double maybe of all time was Huff’s last year. I think it was against San Diego. He rolled into 2nd and then with a maniac look furiously rolled a pair of imaginary dice. It was absolute gold………
Alright Nate.
Nate is a 4th outfielder. But on this team, he is one of their better hitters. If they acquire Beltran, Torres will hit the bench and end up a late inning replacement guy……..
Ta Ta Ta Ta Ta- Tejada
I would get a catcher and an outfielder, if I only had 2 moves to make.
Agree Flav. Whitefuck is done, put a fork in that guy.
Bozo hungry?
You don’t see a lot of homeruns in that part of the ballpark.
Get those runs back Giants.
Well, we can’t get any of the Costas/Michaels talk-fest because it’s blacked out locally, of course.
Another awesome play at 3rd by Panda. String a few hits together and get this one. Costas and Michaels in the next inning. I’m looking forward to that. Some of my earliest baseball memories were of listening to the radio in the tree house I built in Portola Valley. Our family sucked ass back then, that tree house was better than the actual house. I didn’t know who Michael’s was but I knew his voice and he connected me to another place. Every time I hear him I think of *good times*…..
Costas is just a very good baseball announcer. He went on to other shit with the Olympics, etc…. but his best sport is baseball. Great voice, great nuance guy. He got too into himself and that doesn’t work in baseball but back in the day, the dude was a great baseball announcer………
He’s God-awful on horse racing.
He rattles stuff off while he’s describing the action, bouncing around, developing subplots, but focusing on the main action when it’s right. Smart guy. Seems to really enjoy every second of a baseball game.
Zumie—they’re taking the box at COmcast. This is an unbelievable journalistic treat……….
Ah, I missed the word on that somehow.
Sort of a double switch
in my mind, arguable 2 of the best baseball announcers of all time. And before someone says Scully, Simmons, all that: this is just my opinion. I never really listened to Scully till recently and I think he’s horrendous. Simmons was outstanding. Maybe I just like the voices of Costas and Michael’s, who knows. Baseball announcing is a great art……….
No arguement from me, Flav. I love our guys but these two are living legends (so’s Miller, though)
Loo– I can’t stand Costas at pretty much any sport. His Olympic stuff is considered good, I don’t really care for it. I think Costas has a fabulous baseball voice and he never should have left it– got too big for his britches…
I disagree about Costas (perhaps Greek prejudice). I agree he can sound like a Mensa snot at times and he’s not as funny as he thinks he is but he backs it up with knowledge and solid opinions. I don’t watch the Olympics on TV. Only live…(now who’s the snot?)
Costa isn’t my cup of tea but what the heck few are. I generally don’t like any of these people.
Costas. Nimrod
Who cares? They ain’t local.
Costas hasn’t done baseball in 20 years and he’s dropping crazy mid-70’s Giants knowledge on us. That’s genius shit right there.
I love Miller, Ted. He’s near the top. I just think these 2 dudes are at the top of the baseball list of announcers, at least for me……..
and to be clear, I think Michael’s is the best of all time……..
Amen. But our own Miller has a more melodious voice
We’ve been so fortunate over the years as Giants fans with our announcers. Ron Fairly was one of the rare bad hires.
Oh man, Tejada looked kind of creaky on that grounder. My friends and I used to call that “someone put a piano on that guy’s back.” I have no idea where we got that saying. And we actually shortened it to just “piano man” when we saw a slow runner.
It was common to say Bengie Molina was pushing a piano when he ran the bases as well.
I still love Molina. But I also still think calling him Big Titty is funny
yep. Absolutely hilarious. Frat row HOF.
Down the line, Nate!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nate? Baby is that you? Wow.
Nate??!!!
I mean…
NATE!!!
When Nate fucking Schierholtz is your best outfielder, you got problems.
I would have to agree…
Yeah, life is tough in first place.
If you add up all the Nate stud plays this year, especially to win or tie or save games, it’s an absolutely no brainer that he is our team MVP for 2011…..
Huff hit another 3 hopper to second? That never happens……
And that’s why I like Tejada. That dude is head down–hard play every single time. As I said a few days ago, the results aren’t there, but I’d rather have him out there than any *world series ring* dude…….
Yup
Miggy may be creaky, but he hustles like nobody else.
Yup x 2
Panda might have been safe at first if he’d hustled from the get-go.
those 2 innings were a real treat. Costas’ timing is a little off, but that’s to be expected, he hasn’t called a baseball game in years. But he and Michael’s together tonight? I’m saving this one on DVR as long as I saved Dirrrrty’s no hitter (erased about a year ago)……..
I think Costas has called a few games for the MLB network this season.
Maybe he’s just having a hot streak, but it’s more likely that Nate is finally growing into himself. Not real likely he will achieve star status, but a good defensive outfielder who can hit .280 with 12-15 Dingers and 75-80 RBIs is an asset to most teams. That seems to be the direction Schierholtz seems to be taking.
Huff on the other hand seems to have lost his Magic Dragon potion and it appears like Little Jackie Paper won’t talk to him anymore.
Huff is quickly becoming this year’s version of last year’s Panda. If he doesn’t turn it around soon, I’d recommend moving Pablo to first and picking up the scorching Aramis Ramirez.
If I am Bochy, I start Voggy in the All Star game. Why the fuck not?
He already said it’s gonna be Jurrgens or Halladay.
well then he’s just stupid. Play fucking Voggy! Run his ass out there, it’s a fucking exhibition. Jurrgen’s would be a more interesting starting pitching? Baha…….
OK, OK. Do I have to wear any weird robes and stuff for this Cult thing? Can I keep my worldly goods?
Creaky? oh no. Miggy can play, and he will.