Winning Without Hitting
4 hits yesterday. 6 hits the day before. 8 hits the game before that. We scored 5 total runs. Yet somehow, we win 2 of those 3 games. The historic, epic failures of this offense are no longer an issue. If we can win 2 out of ever 3 games we’d have the best record in baseball….
It’s funny, last year the guy I didn’t want up at bat was The Panda. He was fat and flailing at (and missing) everything. He didn’t belong in the LU. This year? He’s like the only at bat I look forward to seeing. Others might say Belt but right now I find Belt’s at bats tough to watch. Not all of them, just the ones where he, you know, forgets to swing. Or in last night’s game he forgot to run. It’s inexcusable for a rookie to ever not run as hard as he can every time he hits a ball that has a decent chance of landing fair……
That shot of Bochy holding the bat was classic. He looked like a crazed man holding an axe that he’d just used to massacre a small village. Good thing Kepp got that hit or Bochy might have turned around and laid waste to a water cooler or two…….
Should be a fun game tonight, everyone is looking forward to seeing Surkamp pitch. A corresponding move still has to be made. Do they do the safe thing and 60 day DL someone? Or do we wave bye bye to a vet? That scoop by De Rosa last night basically saved the game for us as did the unbelievable grab by Miggy. That play was unreal on both ends…….
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Yeah, Bochy looked like he was in a remake of The Shining. “Heeeere’s Bochy!!”
totally–that’s the movie I was thinking of, I just could drag it out of my memory.
Have you ever had a SINGLE MOMENT’S THOUGHT about my responsibilities? Have you ever thought, for a single solitary moment about my responsibilities to my employers? Has it ever occurred to you that I have agreed to look after the OVERLOOK Hotel until May the FIRST. Does it MATTER TO YOU AT ALL that the OWNERS have placed their COMPLETE CONFIDENCE and TRUST in me, and that I have signed a letter of agreement, a CONTRACT, in which I have accepted that RESPONSIBILITY? Do you have the SLIGHTEST IDEA, what a MORAL AND ETHICAL PRINCIPLE IS, DO YOU? Has it ever occurred to you what would happen to my future, if I were to fail to live up to my responsibilities? Has it ever occurred to you? HAS IT?
No. (grin)
Ha, I thought this was some spam thing. Just realized it was Wilco doing jack. Classic.
And for those of you visiting Estes Park, CO, a visit to the Stanley Hotel where that was made is highly recommended.
Bad news for the Braves- Hanson out with an injured rotator cuff.
the old guy left side actually played pretty good D last night.
Cabrera did get another walk (he’s been on base 3 times in two games as leadoff) and scored. I’m gonna defend his AB too…the pitcher has to get ahead and is more than likely going to throw a strike in that situation, and if it is a get me over fastball, I say go for it. If it is in your happy zone or a ball you think you can do something with (drive the opposite way for a hit), WTFN? I don’t get taking strikes, esp when you are trying to drive in runs. In order to be “ahead” in the count, the pitcher would have to throw you balls that are not strikes. If he is throwing strikes, swing the bat. What kind of avg do even the best hitters put up with 2 strikes on them?
Joe Morgan said the vets would get on you for deliberately taking the first pitch fastball, and say, “what are you waiting for, the curve?” I cannot stand to watch the rowands and huffs (et al) take the first pitch for a strike, and then swing at the down and away stuff that is unhittable, when the best pitch in the entire AB is the one he watched go by.
ramirez was just awesome. That changeup for the K on the kid was a thing of beauty. And I loved Casilla bringing the heat…you’re in a big yard vs. not a lot of pop hitters. Challenge these guys with your best stuff, keep it outside to the RHs toward the big part of the park, and make them do something with it.
As I pointed out a few days ago, Rowand swings at the first pitch a lot. Huff’s having a crummy year in large part because he’s become a hacker.
Making outs with the bat on his shoulder is a very good sign that Belt’s willing to let close pitches go by in order to draw walks. You have to take that risk in order to draw lots of BBs.
You can argue cause and effect if you want, but most ineffective players do not draw a high percentage of walks, even though more than a few have decent enough BAs. Put another way, it’s harder to assemble a good offensive team that’s predominantly made up of hackers. Not impossible, it’s just atypical.
Take a look at the team hitting stats for this year’s Padres, who’ve scored 50 more runs than the Giants. They are very similar to the Giants’, except in 2 ways; they have 160 more Ks and 50 more walks.
When an offense is as shitty as the Giants has been, even the individual failings of those who are doing ok get magnified.
May the Baby Giraffe spit on the close pitches he doesn’t want swing at. The Giants will be better off for it over the course of a season.
Give me a fucking legit argument that a walk is as good as a hit. You can’t so don’t bother. It’s still a team game and what is best for the team is not the same wherever a guy is in the order. Drawing a walk in the 6 spot is not as valuable as in the 1. I’ve explained this before,,
As to swinging at the first pitch, there are different schools of thought. A pitcher who has been walking guys is going to be looking to throw a strike, and is not likely to be picky about the location…jump on the mother if it’s good.
“When an offense is as shitty as the Giants has been”… I’ll finish the sentence: “you don’t have one of the few power threats spitting on driveable pitches to set up Miggy Tejada”. There are certanly times when a walk is valuable, but the kid should learn when that is, it ain’t “always”.
I love the nincompoop argument that all OBP are alike- .240 BA .360 OBP is just as good as 320/.360. That’s what’s been argued about both Burrell and Belt and it’s absolute poppycock..
And, of course, in Pat’s case this year, he falls in the category of the “empty OBP” player, one whose OBP is his lone discernible attribute…
If Huff had Burrell’s “empty OBP” right now, the Giants would have a higher runs scored total.
“I love the nincompoop argument that all OBP are alike- .240 BA .360 OBP is just as good as 320/.360. That’s what’s been argued about both Burrell and Belt and it’s absolute poppycock..”
That’s a straw man, and not the argument being made.
Okay, so we’re talking Brandon Belt here. 23 Y.O. rookie. One full year in the minors. Two years outta aluminum batty college ball. Good eye for pitches outside of the zone. Growing power. Inconsistent approach. So why the eff is he batting sixth? Half the position players who could have batted in RBI slots are on the D.L. That’s why. Until he gets it together to be a consistent RBI man its maybe better that Bochy overcome his desperation for one and place Belt in the leadoff position or the two-hole where walks not infrequently CAN be as valuable as hits.
So i’m not arguing with your 6-1 take, Twin. Just attempting to make sense of the whole spectacle and putting Belt in his place ~ his currently proper place ~ getting on base fairly frequently and providing pop once in awhile. Even before his last two Fresno yo-yos i was arguing for batting Belt second. But i got put down for that because folks thought he would be more valuable deeper in the L.U. as an RBI man.
Giants got 4 hits against Happ, and 2 runs, helped by a leadoff error. Good news, they won. Bad news, the Giants had to fight like hell to beat a guy the rest of the league wipes their shoes on. Bochy resorting to bat voodoo to get the game winning hit from Kepp was classic — even Bochy is desperate. And, Kruk’s “shake-up” is nowhere to be found. DeRosa made a nice pick to maybe save the game — I guess that was apparently worth wasting his non-playing spot on the 25 for 3 weeks and counting of a teamwide Saharan hitting drought. The best thing lheading into this weekend is Surkamp, who is auditioning this time and maybe next start for the lead in the off-season “I Got Sanchy Traded” show…
“A walk’s as good as a hit” is something a little league coach yells at kids who don’t have a prayer of making contact and is basically saying “don’t swing”.
Not watching the Giants this weekend. I’ll listen in occasionally.
This pathetic offense has unfortunately bored me almost to the point of disinterest, and that is hard to do.
See ya later Flappers…
I would think you’d want to watch Surkamp’s debut, but maybe that isn’t interesting to you.
See him on the highlights, BF. Hope he does well.
I need a break from watching this offense, I’m outta Scotch…
Count Snarkkles among the B’ers who would rather lose 22-9, than win 2-1…
obviously it’s situational, but walks are absolutely as important as hits especially when you look at the entire season. Hitters are measured by failure (making an out) and success (a single and a walk with no one on base is obviously the same thing). It’s even more important for base stealers because they turn the walk into a *double* more often than the guy who just takes a walk and then goes station to station.
Walks are especially important for a shitty hitting team like the Giants. You can’t score if no one is on base except via the home run (something we don’t do very often). And we simply don’t hit well enough as a team to think that walks aren’t just as import as a hit.
In other baseball news, the Cain Disavowel: “Barry Bonds’ obstruction of justice conviction has been upheld by a federal judge, who denied the home run king’s motion for a new trial or acquittal on the charge.
“…Bonds is likely to appeal Illston’s decision to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.
“‘I don’t know anything about anything,’ pitcher Matt Cain said. ‘I haven’t paid attention, and I don’t know what half the words mean.'”
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/08/26/sports/s200240D71.DTL
James and his disciples are misundestanding “empty OBP” and Burrell. Pat cannot run, he cannot field, even his other attribute: power, has fallen off ( .419 slugging percentage, down from .509). To make it simple, his sole attribute no longer compensates for his shortcomings. When/if he’s activated, pinch hitting should be his only role.
As to the “walk is as good as a hit”, it’s dependent on who’s walking and the situation. As a researcher on the topic, David Neft , notes:
“You look at it like opportunity cost,” Neft said. “It isn’t just what you do with capital, but what you could have done.”
When considering the value of a batter’s walks, the benefit of reaching first base should first be diminished by the opportunity cost of his power being unplugged.”
I could go on but research it yourself-it’s good mental exercise.OBP is simply less important for a middle of the order hitter than slugging percentage.
A more accurate statement than “a walk is as good as a hit” is “a walk is as good as a SINGLE if the bases are empty”..
An even more accurate statement is “a walk is as good as a walk”.
——–
Remember Neal Walk? That’s who Phoenix got after they lost the coin toss for Alcindor…
That’s still not a response to the argument I was making.
we still on for tonight? haven’t heard of where or when.
next sat dude.
ahhh. that would explain it.
Sorry, I shoulda emailed you. I could see u thought it was tonight based off your email
Whatever, I think it is and I don’t want to argue with you anymore, There are different schools of thought on the value of OBP( for “sluggers”), there are respected authorities on either side of the issue.
Hey, Loo. Who you like in the Travers? State your Reason.
Leaning to the Belmont winner, Ruler On Ice to prevail over this awful bunch of 3 year olds. He reminds me of 1974 Travers winner Holding Pattern, a well-traveled Jersey horse. Should be about 9-2 when the gates spring open.
I went in a different direction. My top selection is the Mott horse with the French name. But I covered my ass in the PK 4 with Baffert and STAY THIRSTY, my friend. Nice start to my ticket with the 6 horse in the first leg. If Uncle Mo wins the Kings Bishop, I’ll shoot that horse myself. He’s 3 to fucking 5. I’m on the rail horse this race. Good luck.
Made my first trip to Saratoga last April on a business trip…Stayed at the historic Gideon Putnam…Very cool little town…Lost at the harness track but made up for it and then some on a quarter slot in the racino.
State Your Reason has no shot.
Are you sure? Put that through your French translator…
Ewisco . . . We’ve also moved the “flash mob” meeting to the Fruitvale Ave., Oakland, Bart Station next Saturday too . . . Ya know, where 400 of us are going to ‘spontaneously’ break into a choreographed dance routine.
See you there.
Just don’t bring that fat homo from the commercial that plays every inning…
I almost made my comment reflect that ad, but i hate it so much i couldn’t do it.
5 runs over 3 games = 2 wins. Still tripping out on that. I’m gonna say we score 7 tonight. Just got a feelin…
Hey, Loo. “Lucky” for you you’re not rich and get to live in Manhattan. Sounds like Con Ed is gonna shut off the power for a few because of Irene. It “pays” to be middle class. 😛
September MVP vote went to Panda.
Throw out the number of wins u think we score tonight. If anyone nails it cold I’ll put you into an as yet not created “best predictor” widget
Runs not wins
3 is gonna have to be enough for me
They saved ’em for the kid-7 runs.
And check out Room B to chime in with some auspicious MLB debuts…
I was going to wait to see a LU before making a guess…But then I thought, what difference does it make…Give me 5-1 Giants…Surkamp’s line 6ip 6h 1er 1bb 5k.
Fontenot ss, Keppinger 2b, Beltran rf, Sandoval 3b, Belt lf, Huff 1b, Ross cf, Stewart c, Surkamp p
Hmm… still sticking with 3, but strongly considering rounding it down to 2.9 given the LU.
4-2 orange and black.
And I’ll repeat my call from last night; Pablo goes yard. Kind of helps that he’s in the lineup tonight.
Day late and a dollar short once again…
Vungo returns tomorrow, right?
Hope so. Officially, scheduled to come off DL tomorrow. Would like that to mean, “… off DL and in the LU, too”.
He and Romo. Bochy says Andres will start
10
“Samantha Taylor: [examining George’s bee sting] That looks bad, have you taken anything for it?
George: Ah, yes, I took 4 of your birth control pills, I hope that’s okay.
Samantha Taylor: [kisses George on the cheek] Try an antihistimine.
George: I don’t like those, they make me pregnant! ”
“10”
Went up to Camden Yards last night, and on a very humid but cool night (Irene’s tentacles hadn’t reached yet), O’s bashed Yanks 12-5. Just lit into Burnett. Maybe a third to half the crowd were Yanks fans, so this was a nice shut-you-up. O’s had a video tribute and the number 46 up for Mike Flanagan. A real shame.
Then watched several innings of the Giants game at neighboring Frank & Nicks. The bartender is an ex-Cardinals prospect, who told us the O’s pitching coach would walk in later, and he did. Also on screen, as a tribute to Flanagan, was a re-broadcast of the last game at Memorial Stadium in 1991, as he closed it out. I was at the game, and the O’s organization lived up to their class reputation. Giants remind me of that now, the way they bring the older players along. Anyway, fascinating to see all those guys–Lloyd Moseby, Milt Cuyler, Lou Whitaker and all those old O’s, nutty 2B Billy Ripken being a favorite. All of them pre-steroid; looking like normal guys.
The storm’s intensifying here in DC, but the people along the Chesapeake and out on the shore are taking it hard. Hope to be able to listen to Giants, and post a few, but the power might go. Bozo hope you’re alright in NC.
moseby is another one of those OF guys out of oaktown.
SWEET! That grab by MDR looked like he had been making them all season.
opps, were we blogging about something else?
Go Gigantes!
i’m going with 5-3 giants.
OVER/UNDER 6IP for Surkamp?
I’m gonna be a weasel and say, PUSH. 6 IP exactly.
I’m watching Nats v Reds
ho hum
Renteria base hit
due to technical difficulties unable to bring you Cubbies v Brewers
go brew crew
as much as I love the Cubs
got 2 guys on my FLB team
Werth bomb
nats 2-1
Nats r offering deals on season tickets
go figure
Detwiler is snake bit
Edd. lol. Enough.
Nate to the DL. Boring. Rowand and DeRosa still on team. 40 man decision still to come soon…..
6 runs for me, since no one else took it.
game on
good start…not worried how many we get, it’s how many we need.
where is DMD?
Beltran can.t hit for shit
Astros just showed the line for the Lincecum bobblehead…Are you fucking kidding me?
Surkamp’s toying with them…
right…holding them to doubles with two outs is a good move.
I am not a Texans fan by any means, but let me be the first to say, these guys could be pretty damn good this year…If you wanted a longshot Super Bowl team, these guys are it.
Maybe Huff’s mom should buy him a new batting cage…
I was gonna make a futures bet on them WJ till I saw their schedule…
ha ha…I dug bake mcbride…great fro, faster than hell.
In a baseball board game we used to play, one of his last seasons for cleveland, he hit like .360.
Another ugly AB by Huff…Here’s my LU starting tomorrow…Torres CF, Keppinger 2b, Beltran RF, Sandoval 3b, Belt 1b, Hall LF, Cabrerra SS, Stewart C
Another thing to hate about the Astro announcers is how they IMMEDIATELY give their answers to the trivia question of the night.
No shit…One of my pet peeves.
The only positive about them is their penchant for showing hot woman in the stands…They really have to stretch to find some decent ones in San Francisco though…Now I remember why I moved to Texas.
No doubt the result of a team that’s 46 games under .500.
The Judge Smails reference by Deshaies was pretty funny though…
Way to get outta that one. Jeez, Giants pitchers must lead the majors in hitting batters on the backfoot with those big curves.
Rags!!
9 base runners in 4.1 (and that .1 was a rope that font just caught. Good thing he’s facing an aaa team that doesn’t know what to do with base runners
yeah, he’s actually been pretty lucky so far despite the f/u by huff.
Stros seem a little above his pay grade…not so sure I’d want him in there vs. Dbax.
I will forever love aubry huff. But his head isn’t in the game and he’s hurting team. Torres comes back tomorrow, send Belt to 1b, at least you get some good D
They just scored. Sloppy D.
Sloppy D is a good name for a rapper…
That’s fucking gold again, Loo.
What’s slowly than a water buffalo? That’s the animal Beltran plays like
Get Beltran to LF ASAP
O—kaaaaaay. What say we go plural in the hit column..
That walk was as good as a hit…
Right down the fucking middle Ross…
These days, Ross throws his bat into the crowd further than he hits baseballs.,
Yeah this offense is D.O.A.
Well, Ross was obviously looking curveball. And there’s not much you can say about Font’s at bat except “epic fail”- I said 7 runs tonight. Ha. What a fucking douchbag call that was
My cousin Greg and his daughter, Victoria, had an opportunity today to meet and take pictures with Belt and Sandoval . . . he just sent me this email in regard to Belt:
“Steve, You would have cracked up today when I gave Belt a “pep” talk. I told him that he needs to become a leader on the team, and start playing like Tulowitzki! I was cracking myself up!! So far tonight Tulowitzki has 2 HR’s and Belt has 2 strikeouts! So much for my pep talk, huh?”
By the way, Tulowitski grew up in my Sunnyvale neighborhood and Greg is friends with Tulo’s dad. Dude always comes through with choice tickets for my cuz.
Torres returning tomorrow hopefully changes everything. Just his presence in the line-up changes everything (Fontenot? Rowand? Cabrera? lead off? ugh). August 28!!
Ha. Excellent.
Surkamp doesn’t seem to be fooling anyone with his “pinpoint control”. But he could have some jitters. He’s ensured us no more starts from runzy, that’s a
Check out my 2:11 prediction on Surkamp’s line.
Pretty damn good!
So how many inches of rain is Brooklyn gonna get?
I guess he figured he still had a shot at first if that didn’t work but there was a little bit of showboating going on there.
We don’t appreciate this epic failure as well as we should: it’s the 6th inning. We have 1 hit. And we’re right in this bad boy.
“Epic” ….sounds biblical.
Hey, on this team that’s as good as a walk
the good thing is surkamp is immediately getting a dose of what it means to be a starting pitcher for the giants . . . torture. If he can continue to hold his own, keeper.
Do “they” keep stats on number of quality starts per team? Giants must be near the top of that category. Not that it always translates into wins, obviously….
I think they said 86 during the game last night.
Really, they actually commented on that last night, huh… so, that’s about 65% of starts being quality starts. Surkamp joins the fold.
you can’t go back to last year. but is it time for Huff to break out . . . the rally bra? I’m wearing mine.
Question for another day: Does this team need a major overhaul?
I think zumie said the other night only a couple guys in the LU return.
Assuming you get Posey back beind the plate, kepps, sando, belt, FS maybe …might be about it among position players…they’ve got a month left to show something.
good question, tho…wouldn’t surprise me sabes makes a few moves ” in another direction.”
Huff and Ross still under contract next year? …. haven’t done much this year…
Giants go down quietly…..
Hey, Nipper. Stay Thirsty won the Travers today at Saratoga. That deserves a cheap cold one.
But no cheap cold ones for the Giants offense. They stink on ice. Speaking of which, go get me a damn bag.
it’s not working.
I guess Brett Myers was wearing his lucky wifebeater.
for all he’s done, it would be nice to get Mota a W here.
This is actually the perfect game to renew their “way of winning” earlier this year; keeping it close, winning it on a key hit late in the game, a touch of that magic torture.