Watching From the Rail: Pablo Sandoval, My Hat is Off to You
Everyone is boo-hooing for Cain and I’m with that group, too. But the guy I feel really bad for is The Panda. He’s had to sit on the bench a couple of times over the last week because he can’t swing right handed. It’s been like that for 6 weeks. His season of playing through pain hasn’t gotten nearly the acknowledgment that it deserves….
Last night, I went outside and swung Twin’s bat for a few minutes. It’s broken but I have re-taped in and it’s pretty swingable as long as it doesn’t make contact with anything. I was a switch hitter when I played (through high school). I probably had a little more power batting left handed, a better batting average right handed. Last night I kept going back and forth, right handed swing, left handed swing, etc. I imagined how Pablo felt at each point of his right handed swing. I wondered where the pain was. At what point does it get so bad that he has to shake his head sideways and say “I can’t go.”
Have any of you ever had shoulder pain? About 10 years ago I had awful right shoulder pain. It didn’t hurt at all unless I pointed my index finger at about a 60 degree angle. So I did what a smart man would be inclined to do and I didn’t point in that direction for a while. The pain went away. I wonder if Panda’s shoulder pain is pervasive. Does he feel it every time he jolts his body to get in front of a grounder? Does he feel it when he reaches for the salt shaker? Or is it just on right handed swings? Imagine how bad it must be for him to say “I can’t go.”
I didn’t have any interest in writing about last night or about the D-backs winning the NL West. But I did go to bed last night feeling bad for The Panda having to hang on the rail instead of start at 3rd base. His season of playing through pain and dealing with injury is something we should honor for longer than a moment…..
Well said Craig. My 15 yo daughter proudly wore her Panda hat to hat day at her high school! I was talking to my dad about the season…
Panda hit like last years Posey. We are on the outside looking in for 2 reasons: Huff and Torres. Even with all the injuries, if they hit like last year we are in. Hell if ONE of them hit like last year we are likely in.
Time to bask again everyone. It will ease the pain a little…
The Panda stands tall among Giants.
Last year he had the divorce and weight problems. So all off-season he worked on his head and body. He broke his hamate bone, I broke the hook to the hamate on a screaming line drive at the Stick (the kind of ball where nobody else tries to catch it), and that is nothing but pain. He gets a MVP type year going again and then the shoulder. The guy works so hard, has so much fun playing, yeah, it had to kill him sitting on the bench. Pablo Sandoval is THE Giant in my book.
Bozo has to get a Panda Hat!
Shoulder injuries are something that can come and go, but I’d be more worried about Freddy Sanchez than Pablo long term. True gamer, Sando, who had a remarkable year.
Late to the posey/sanchez discussion, but even with them there are a couple major issues unresolved. First would be leadoff hitter, hopefully with enough speed and ability to rack up significant number of stolen bases. After he got on base, of course, and Giants leadoff guys all sucked at that time big time.
Second is the SS position. I highly doubt Keppinger can play that spot full time; he doesn’t appear to be a big range guy, and if the team thought he was then I’d question why he never did it here at all, or why he didn’t play SS instead of Font with Cabrera at 2b, where he had been playing for the Tribe. So that leaves the usual suspects from within, a pretty underwhelming lot offensively. Burriss, absolutely not.
If you aren’t going to bring back Beltran, where are you planning to replace his ,900 OPS in the middle of the LU? Rebound from Huff? A full season of Belt Nate Ross? Prince and his big butt?
Please get a SS who can field and hit above the mendoza line!
Well, the discussion wasn’t about next year but whether the Giants win the division this year had they not been injured. I say yes, with ease. Snarkk, amazingly agreees, Loo doesn’t. I think one other weighed in, sorry, don’t remember. But if Posey himself isn’t worth 6 games over Eli and Chris, I’ll eat the hat that Craig was going to eat on a L9ncecum call…
Alex and Alexis are leaving us.
Bochy balanced the LUs brilliantly. And actually, only in August did it “fall apart”. I’d say you’ll need more than “something big happened”. And you don’t don’t what it was but you promise it happened. Sorry.
Month by Month
Split W L
March 0 1
April 13 12
May 16 12
June 17 11
July 15 11
August 11 18
Sept 12 8
Bye, Alex.
Alex or Alexis?
Anyway, Nate has not proven himself to be an everyday player yet. After a big month, he reverted to form after the break- in 32 games he hit .248 .296 OBP, .654 OPS. That may be everyday in some leagues, just not this one. And I never said Vogelsong would not last the season, I said I HOPED he would. He was ASG material first half, respectable after that…
Tim’s talk was SOP, pre-contract blather. Anyway, let us know when your investigaion is complete.
Hear, hear, Flav. As I’ve said before, Panda is the heart and soul of the team.
Went to Braves-Nats last night; 2nd time in two weeks to see Strasburg. It had rained steadily all day so field conditions weren’t good. With that, and his short leash, he’s pitching a little cautiously, though it’s masked by his 95-98 mph fastball. Which the Braves tattooed last night. He gave up only 5 hits, all singles, but they were roped. Just goes to show you location and movement is key for a pitcher, and if you’re cautious in the least, that’s affected.
Braves looked good last night. Venters grooved one though and Werth belted it. Kimbrel finished up. Nats, while improved this year, and off a sweep of Phils in Philly, did something I don’t think I’ve seen Little Leaguers do: P Henry Rodriguez fielded a comebacker and ran at Bourn caught off second; in the eventual rundown Zimmerman drops a throw and Bourn gets back to 2nd, but the hitter had advanced to second and is now caught so Zimmerman throws over to get in the first-second rundown. Meanwhile, Bourn takes off for third, and when he realizes NO ONE IS COVERING HOME, goes in to score. Unbelievable. No idea where C Ramos or P Rodriguez disappeared to.
Older guy next to me, visiting from Utah with his family, was seeing his Braves for first time since he became a fan in 1957. How’s that–wow! We both were checking the out-of-town scoreboard and comparing notes…
I bragged about this on Facebook and will do the same here. My daughter’s U9 girls soccer team is very good. We routinely destroy the competition. This week we had a bye so we decided to set up an exhibition gm vs the boys who practice at the same field we do. Game started out boys up 3-1, our girls were playing tentatively. I got into them a little at the 1q break. Long story short: end of gm score: 7 to 7. The boys were so bummed they said mean things in the handshake line. Their coach balled them out for being bad sports and gave us their donut snack as a punishment. Super proud of Katie who scored twice and defended away at least a dozen possible goals by the boys.
I love that story, especially the great ending!
No more than four meaningless games face the World Champs. Yes, there is the slimmest of chances that Atlanta will lose all their remaining games, the Giants will win them all and St. Louis will not edge into the receiving line. But in a reality-based world we are looking at a team that suffered injuries throughout the season and rarely ever could field the same lineup from game to game. Had Buster been around the entire season as well as Freddy and had Panda not gotten serially banged up, there is little doubt SF would currently enjoy a 5-6 game lead, maybe better. A lot of down to the wire contests went the wrong way. There were precious few games the staff blew away in the first few innings.
So though a repeat now borders on the impossible, this team still retains a measure of pride which will carry them into the 2012 season all wound up and rarin to go. I’m very leery about Reyes as the all in one solution because of his repetitive injury bug, but shortstop and a leadoff hitter are the two big needs as many have pointed out on this blog. Hope those needs get addressed and in the meantime all the best to Surkamp and the hitters in stymying Kennedy’s quest for another W.
Between the Kung-Fu Panda signs, cuddly panda hats and generally happy demeanor the public, for the most part, has misread Sandoval. He’s a fierce competitor and a very tough hombre. I think he benefitted the most from Uribe being on the club last year and we’ve seen him take a firm leadership position this year. The only solace I take from this injury riddled season of disappointment is fresh rested arms will be coming in spring and Sandoval will be even Hungrier. And we all know The Panda likes to eat.
Don’t forget the Room B topics, links to the right. I especially want to hear any thoughts on baseball as therapy…
needless to say, I’m delighted that Panda has had a terrific year in the face of so many difficulties. I need to be careful how I say this because it’s not directed at any individual but to fans in general- there was very little sympathy for his plight last year, actually one would think there would have been a fair amount of empathy. His weight, the divorce with tots involved, Mom, this was a young man dealing with a lot and his meteoric rise didn’t help either. Yet he was always the most enthusiastic guy in the dugout whether he was playing or not. He never deserved the abuse. There IS a difference between criticism, which he deserved, and vitriol, which he didn’t…Finally- go Katie!
Craig is on the road but just E-mailed me to ask that we say goodbye to Alex and Alexis.
I’m a troll.
I posted in Room B.
I will write my grandiloguent postmortem on this season only when there’s a “mortem” and not sooner.
Still muthafuckin basking.
I’m not seeing your “B” post, Pawlie.
I just submitted it, Twin. [when I wrote up above, was referring to Room B from a day or two ago, and I can’t even remember the subject. Comebacks? No, the whole debate about injuries in 2010.]
Goodbye and Godspeed to Alex and Alexis, whoever and wherever you are.
Craig will be blocking Alex and Alexis when he gets home.
There’s a 49er joke there but I ain’t touching it.
. I used to be known as Hawk. I’m an odious little worm.
why you picking on worms? we ain’t done nuttin 2 youse 2, I even drive a lexus.
Off topic, but what the heck . . . I really dislike Romney, who is very unauthentic/plastic (unlike his dad, who despite being Republican too, at least told the truth as he saw it). Anywho, I cracked up on this paragraph from a CNN article . . .
“. . . He recalled taking a 16-year-old girl to the island sailing, riding bikes and even spending the night at the mansion. He would eventually marry that girl, Ann. Romney emphasized they slept in different bedrooms at the time, joking “we come from the 1960s.”
1960s? If I recall correctly – that was the decade of “Free Love” and “Love the one you’re with.” Straight laced Romney must have been comatose during the decade.
Well, love wasn’t as free as advertised. Try as I might, I was more comatose more than I’d bargained for far too often. But I really did dream Grace Slick was singing to me in the third row at the Fillmore East.
what a voice, Slick could belt it out and vibrate every bit of a boys bones.
Anyone wondering what happened to Ishikawa? He’s running in the 3rd at Monmouth today.
http://tinyurl.com/3z2a9a7
Dennis, was that horse actually named after Ishi?
As we speak, both the Braves and Cards are losing, 1-0, each.
I don’t let go without leaving terrible claw marks. So much for being a Zen roshi.
I wonder if Travis will make it back after shoulder surgery. They missed him this year, especially his bat off the bench. I’d think he’s finished here, maybe someone will pick him up. What was underrated about Ishi was how good a PLAYER he was- good baserunner, fielder of course, clutch hitter. He and Nate were a couple of the best role players in the game in 2010. I thought it was so cool that Bochy got each a start in the WS- that was a big thanks to them. I’d bet Travis remembers that for a lifetime.
Some great stuff on Baseball as therapy- keep it coming.
thank you for handling that Twin, I’m going to leave those up. Good comedy. His IP address is banned. He was using “alex@nethawk.net as his email address. Gee, I wonder who that was?
You’re welcome. Hawk had posted some of the most vile stuff imaginable about my father and daughter back when that kind of shit could get through on the old Splash. When he was on his meds, he could be an extremely interesting if bizzarre commenter. But without notice out would come ” I hope you die a long, tortuous, painful death”.. .
“Uh, OK, Hawk. I’ll agree with you on Cain, then..”
As many have noted, the failures of Huff and Torres were huge. With one very notable exception, bloggers have been kinder toward Andres, as his desire and conditioning were never in question- plus he’s making over 8 million less than Huff with no contract next year. If this is to be his final year as a Giant, I hope most wil remember him as our true Angel in the Outfield last year… given his previous record, he might indeed have been our one year gift to spark the championship we waited so long for. I can simply not imagine how one could trash him now- if 2010 was truly his freak, career year- it should still mark him forever as a true Giant and hero forever. I loved Timmy mocking his running style the other day- I’d bet he’s one of the most loved men in the clubhouse.
It’s truly amazing how so many so-called “real” fans of our Giants can ceaselessly mock and degrade them as if 2010 never happened. These morons probably only hate one more thing besides baseball–life.
no lie, o priest of magical incantation_138
I’m getting all soft and mushy over these valedictions. If 2010 was Andres’s career year, and Huff’s, too, so be it. We could never have gotten to the Land of Milk and Honey and Rings without them. One of my favorite Torres memories: I’m in Philly. Giants about to clinch pennant. My daughter, 13, and I at Marathon, Center City, as they call downtown. Restaurant. We bellied up to the bar to see the TV screen after attending older daughter’s Pennsylvania Ballet performance, Broad Street. All the locals figure we’re Philly phanatics. Torres slides into first! Doesn’t he? Do I remember rightly? In the 8th or 9th?
And as Ryan Howard looks at Wheezy’s last pitch, ABK and I erupt. We can’t help it. We whoop and run around the joint. Not well received. Not at all. As if I cared then. Or ever.
Brave of you. In Philly, much less than that can get you in a fight, or worse. Although I must say, when I saw a Giants game back there in 2007 or 2008, can’t remember, I had a seat on the 3rd base side in lower box, and the Phills fans surrounding were pretty cool, after I made my Giants fandom known. We talked ball, not trash. Of course, it didn’t hurt that the Giants were in process of getting pounded about 10-3 or some such, I think Burrell hit a slam, somebody in a Phills uni did, anyway…
Just for the helluvit, before I see the position lineups, I’ll nominate Surkamp as today’s tentative “Oh Goody”. I’d like to see 6 innings of 2 run ball, that would be a real success down there. He has a serviceable #5 written all over his potential, and that’s OK with Sanchie and Zito who knows where or what in the offseason…
Nats beating Bravos 4-1 in the 7th, Cubs over Cards in 8th, 1-0.
Thanks, SDG, for the, um, “ride.”
We’re absolutely still in the Wild Card chase . . . Anyone who bails now, I can only say, “Adios and don’t let the door hit ya in the ass.” I believe the Sun Dressed Goddess still has mojo in both D cups (or is that double D?).
Giants obviously need to do their part with the Snakes today and tomorrow. Get that mission accomplished, then they have these Rockies’ stiffs to contend with (whom are nursing a nine game losing streak as of today):
Monday: Rockies’ Jhoulys Chacin (11-13, 3.66) at Giants’ Ryan Vogelsong (12-7, 2.81), 8:15 p.m.
Tuesday: Rockies’ Alex White (2-3, 8.63) at Giants’ Madison Bumgarner (12-13, 3.32), 8:15 p.m.
Wednesday: Rockies’ Drew Pomeranz (1-1, 5.68) at Giants’ Matt Cain (12-11, 2.88), 1:45 p.m.
Go Giants!
JERKOFF CUBS PITCHERS AND MANAGER. I MEAN, SERIOUSLY? WALK IN THE WINNING RUNS?
I almost feel fucking responsible . . . That cocksucker Carlos Marmol is on my FL team and has been a BIG FUCKING LOSER THIS ENTIRE YEAR.
Nat’s won though, so we are still in it.
I guess my bseball as therapy sounded as if I’d given up. Not so, although I’ll admit to feeing less than gung-ho after last night’s loss. I recall when Romo gave up a game winner to Manny, I think, early last year. I blurted that he’d never pitch in the bigs again, were I the manager. Now cut to last night, I feel just terrible for him. It’s hard to imagine a reliever being better than he was this year. It just didn’t seem fair that he was the guy to give it up. And I had no doubt that he’d strike out Goldy and we pull it out…
Good-Atl loses
Bad- Cards pull it out
Still alive though.
Bring your kid(s) to work day.
Christian CF, Fontenot 2B, Beltran RF, Sandoval 3B, Pill 1B, Belt LF, Sanchez C, Crawford SS, Surkamp P
Bochy has raised the WTFN flag…
Seven weeks too late…
not running Huff out there is a real statement. what happened to that guy they had a ss before cabrera?
He’s been playing Huff and Pill about equally- 11 starts for Huff, 9 for Pill. If Huff wasn’t under coontract for next year, he’d either be gone with Miggy and Aaron, or riding the pine. But he is under contract- the usage has been appropriate, IMO.
Not much different than how he’s been playing it all month- he’s usually been about 50-50 vets and kids. What they’ve done with Huff is exactly how it should have been handled- with 11 million left on his contract and next year (hopefully) that “up” year, you don’t insult him by benching him entirely. Bochy has actually been masterful in shuffling the LUs- although Whitey is my one bone of contention. One thing must be said for him, though. This holds for Stewart as well- they’ve played as well as they’re capable. This was winter time mistake by Sabean- there were many good FA back up catchers available and they decided that Buster was invincible…
Amazing to me how no one seems to be talking about Kemp’s very real chance to win the triple crown. Not just here, anywhere. Been 80 years since a National Leaguer did it…
And that was around the time the ball definitely was juiced…all kinds of records established during that period, including Hack Wilson’s 190 rbis. I remember reading about a phillies team from that era that hit .300 as a team for the full year, and finished dead last in the league. The “bat draggers” that hit 7th and 8th in that LU were in the .270s.
Something was going on in ’61, too…….and maybe ’70.
Haven’t been able to put my finger on how i feel. bummed definitely. sad, a touch. resigned, a bit. and kind of tired. a break will be good. a return to gentle basking. and a promise of spring.
other than braun, I don’t think anyone else is a legit MVP. Kemp has het up lately, destroyed SF, and just keeps raking. Quite a remarkable turnaround…Oakland’s own Frank Robinson the last one to do it (for Balt, )after Reds decided he was going downhill?
“An old 30” was how the Reds GM described Robby.
Yaz did it the following year, although Killebrew tied him for HRS…
Slew & Affirmed also won back to back TCs…
Why not Upton? He’s the man for AZ
Kemp leads him in HRs and Rbis, plus; his avg. is 35 pts higher, he leads the league in runs scored right now, and has 40 steals, second in the league. Just cause his team sucks isn’t a reason not to give it to him imo, tho others would certainly disagree with awarding the MVP to a guy on a team 2 games over .500.
I agree willie. It’s become an annual dumb sportstalk debate, along with whether or not pitchers should be eligible (they are and they should be). It’s the most valuable player – the player with the most value. Has nothing to do with how your team does or what position you play.
Disagree completely. But just what MVP really means is debated even among the people who vote on it. You can actually make an argument that an injured player proves to be most valuable. But I submit that the MVP has to do something more than keep his team out of the cellar. And pitchers should not be eligible,IMO.
Upshaw MVP ( my pick, I don’t think he’ll win)
Kershaw CY
My wife and I watched that disgusting ending of the Cardinal/Cubs game. That was pathetic. That was the Cubs providing a metaphor for their 100+ years of futility.
Marmol crumbled like your favorite snack…
Ritzes do crumble.
Well, at season’s end last year they clubbed the Pads for us, gotta take the bad with the good…
Hey, I’m grateful. And today they were playing hard, trying to win. The centerfielder hustled very hard to cut off that ball in the ninth inning, and keep that hit to a single. Little did he know that Marmol would walk three batters to give up the tying run, and throw a wild pitch for the loss.
I’m going to leave Baseball as Therapy up for awhile. Some great stuff and I want to hear more. Great comebacks will also stay up as long as they’re alive…
Ernie Banks won at least one MVP during the late 50s, as a power hitting SS, when the Cubs regularly sucked. They and the Phillies were 7th and 8th, dregs of the NL in those days. That was before Santo and Billy Williams, just another of the HOF guys from the Mobile Alabama area.
I know about Banks. That doesn’t settle the question, though. It will always be a subject for debate. Some would say that there be a “Best Player” AND an MVP
Hopefully Los D-Backs are mucho hungover…
O.G. does the job…
Just in case you needed proof that it ain’t our year…
Guess we should be seeing Zito come in, any minute now. Heh, Miller really went off on the interfering ump, “He was just standing there like he was looking at a butterfly. A disgrace — a total disgrace!”
I’m not going to get into a debate on Surkamp’s future, but that was a brutal inning- got squeezed by the home plate ump and fucked by the second base guy.
Well, his pitching was metaphorically criminal but he probably won’t go to prison for it. “…got squeezed by the home plate ump and fucked by the second base guy.”
I sure would hate to judge someone’s future on a lousy inning.
Twin, I got your message. I’m out tonight, is it ok if I try u tomorrow pm?
If you get a chance, take a look at surkamp’s walk to strikeout ratio since he got up here. It’s as ugly as it gets.
I know all about it. I’ll make any judgement next year.
Yeah, you can call tomorow. I refuse to argue about Surkamp. I’m sure you’re right…
How about a contribution to Baseball as therapy…softball counts
Yes, When I get home tomorrow
Waldis is making some big money for Ramirez & Casilla…
Brutal in just about all pitching respects tonight.
That ump interference deal is a metaphor for the season, somehow. Pawlie can find one, I’m sure.
Zito is auditioning to stay with the Giants, and failing. Faces 7, 2 outs, 3 walks, 2 hits. The guy is done, just well well done like a campfire steak.
Bochy must have pulled the plug on the lights…
Not too much can be said. Glad I went out to dinner and missed most of this . . . sigh.
Crap. They got the lights back on…
Well, watching all of “Lawrence of Arabia” tonight turned out to be the right thing. Great movie.
Scenes of carnage in the Arabian desert easier to watch than massacre in the Arizona desert.
Adios, season.
Yours,
“Owrance.”
I actually have tickets to this game. As of a couple of days ago I was still considering hauling the kids across the desert to attend. Thank goodness we called it off.
I’m bummed about missing the playoffs, but, like many of you, proud of the season they put together in the face of all of the injuries. Winning it all and then defending it down to the last week of the season has been one helluva ride.
Sure was. Played with heart and pride. We rooted with the same. It still hurts, but that’s life.
Tell you what: we technically get to bask until the last out of the 2011 World Series.
And you know what else: we can UNtechnically continue to bask forever.
G’night.
Amen.
Next season could truly be a scum at the end. If we add just one bat and Posey and Fruckie are healty, they could very well be favored again.I’ll run it down from my POV on a new page tomorrow or Monday.
Whatever “good luck” the team had last year pertaining to no critical injuries got paid for in full this year. Clean slate next year. Bummed about not being able to defend the title, still hurting a bit from that horrendous slide from 4 games up after that series in Philly to 9-1/2 back in a matter of 5 or 6 weeks… but it still was fun nearly to the end. Actually, already looking forward to the off-season and discussions here about what’s next…
Good stuff on Michael’s baseball as therapy thread…
They’re rolln’ and trollin’ on the Splash tonight…
And Pablo still gets shit like this year never happened for him.
I’ll definitely be leaving Baseball as therapy up for awhile. Some of the finest posts ever.
Huh. So the Giants didn’t make the playoffs. So, is the season over? No.
4 more games. Is anyone here going to tell me they stopped watching Giants games after they were eliminated?
If so, you’ve had quite a few years of missing Giants games. 4 more. Will Sandoval beat his 2009 25 dingers? How about the starters ERAs? The PENs eras?
15-2. Granted, ugly loss. But again I bring up Sandoval. He was their 2 in the 15-2. Don’t ya’ll get excited watching great players? How many years did we see excellent players with no playoffs?
Fuck it. I’ve only seen one World Series victory by the San Francisco Giants. And I may not see another one in my lifetime (hopefully, I will in someone else’s lifetime)
That’s my point. I’ll still be paying attention to the last games of 2011, cheer, enjoy and see how my boys do.
Baseball., baby. SFGiants baseball, baby. Amazing what Bochy did with all the bad luck fuckups this year.
GIANTS FOREVER!!!
It’s crazy the shit you still hear about Sandoval. Any 3rd guy calling in to KNBR has to rail on his ‘undisciplined’ approach, how he hurts the team, and how they should trade him while they still can. Nevermind the fact that he missed 40 games,has been playing hurt, but is leading the team in HRs, RBIs, runs, hits, BA, OBP, SLG, and OPS. Yeah, the Giants would be fine without him. Might as well get rid of that skinny-assed pitcher while we’re at it.
This misguided season was one of just way too much to overcome. Sad to see it go, but 2010 is, was, and will be a glorious, special, and unforgettable season that I had major doubts I’d ever see come to pass. If the Giants had somehow made the playoffs this year, Bochy should have gotten manager of the decade. . .
Well put, chuck. And in the words of the town drunk in BLAZING SADDLES:
REVRET!!!
Chuck thoughtful? I’m worried!
Since it’s over, I would bench Panda. No sense in risking further injury to the shoulder, he’s too important. Put Gillaspie or DeRosa in, and go with it. If he needs surgery, then get it done ASAP and give him as much rehab time as possible….
Aaron Harang of the Pads has a 14-7 record, with a 3.64 ERA and a 1.37 WHIP. Lincecum has to win tomorrow to get 14 wins, with a ERA at 2.59 and WHIP of 1.19. That’s just flat messed up…
So, Craig, inquiring minds want to know — what does the Sun Dressed Goddess do with herself in the off-season….?….. (Um, I can just hear the replies now: “Same thing she does with herself during the season”…. ) uh huh….
BLEEP! It’s finally over.