Crisp, Sizemore, DeJesus—Who Would You Sign?
It wouldn’t surprise me if one of these 3 guys is playing center field for us next year. All 3 have pluses and minuses. Crisp gives you a leadoff presence and a guy who could steal you 30-40 bases if he stays healthy (his big minus). Sizemore is the biggest gamble, a guy who almost went 40/40 back in 2007 but injuries have derailed his career–he is reportedly healthy but for how long? DeJesus is a guy I don’t really like that much–little power and little speed. But he’s good defensively and if you subscribe to the theory that most A’s free agent pick ups turn to sh!t upon signing (it’s not all of them but a lot of them) then you throw out DeJesus’ 2011 and hope he bounces back to pre-A’s form. He’s probably a lot more likely to stay healthy than the other 2, too.
What about Vungo? It couldn’t really get much worse for Torres than it did last year. And it’s not like he’s brimming with confidence right now. But he would be the cheaper than any of those 3 and his upside of 2010 is better than Crisp and DeJesus for sure. Probably not Sizemore if you think he’s healthy again. What if you signed Crisp AND Torres? I hope they don’t sign Crisp and Ross. I love Cody Ross for what he did in 2010 but in my opinion there’s a better chance that an unpressured Torres would have a better chance of bouncing back than Ross. Remember, Ross really only *brought it* for about 6 weeks. Torres did it ALL of 2010. Anyway, just something to kick around on a windy, cold day in the Bay………
The poll is what would YOU do, not what you think Sabean will do…..
I will send the results to Sabean at the end of the day and he will act accordingly……..
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
“There is a superstar on our team, but if you walked into our clubhouse, you’d have no idea who it is. To watch him (Grady Sizemore) play day in and day out is a rare treat. All of us, from the front office to the players to the batboys, are fortunate to see him every day. He is without a doubt one of the greatest players of our generation.” – Cleveland Indians General Manager Mark Shapiro in Sports Illustrated (May 14, 2007)
How times have changed for Grady. I would take a flyer on any of these guys, but Sizemore obviously has the greatest upside . . . and, greatest risk (not salary, but insofar as performance). Crisp and DeJesus are both 32, so they’ve probably seen their best days.
I would take a chance on a one year deal for Sizemore and sign Torres as well. My reason is you just might catch lightning in a bottle with Grady and Torres can back-up any OF position. Also, if both those guys can come back you could move Sizemore over to RF. A healthy (key word) OF of Belt, Sizemore and Torres with Nate off the bench, would be enough to compensate for the one big bat everyone wants. Torres, Freddy, Panda, Posey, Sizemore, Huff, Belt, SS. Again, if healthy, that’s not a bad looking line-up IMO.
Bozo, didnt Bochy all but say that Belt is going to be the first bagger next year (of course unless he stinks it up spring training)?
So it is probably a Huff/Crisp/Nate OF with Torres and either Grady/Ross/Pill or some other candidate for the second backup OF spot…
Underwhelming as they were in 2010, I don’t care for the above options much, so I’d keep Torres and pass on the others. Hopefully he will come in energized and determined to offset what happened last year. Torres D, speed and versatility give him the edge. I like Ross but would rather save the $$$ to fill a bigger need.
Which is, you have to get one more stick to fill one of the corner spots and hit in the middle of the order, whether it’s Willingham, cuddyer, beltran, ethier.
Nate and his .750 OPS alongside Huff Belt Crawford is way too much of the SOS I grew tired of watching last year. I think Belt might (key word) have more upside than any of the 3 guys in top of the poll, but you need to pick up one established vet stick that forces the others to fight for LU scraps. too many also rans in this field.
Speaking of free agent pickups. I’m sitting next to that dude Dennis from The Bunny Ranch on the way to LA this morning. I’m sure he has some strict criteria for any acquisition. Dude has the brothel and an HBO show but he’s flying Southwest? I guess it is true what they say. Pimpin ain’t easy.
Pass on all of them. Few FA are worth what they cost and frequently end-up on the DL collecting their bloated paychecks. No way! Where’s a new young Branch Rickey? Develop the farm at all costs. Sure it worked one time and be grateful that it worked last season. Many seasons the FA playing career ends in a Giants uni.
I’d bring back Torres and roll the dice with Sizemore, provided it’s not too costly. A 1 yr, say hugely incentive laden deal? He’s certainly the most intriguing.
They need a leadoff/CF, so Crisp would be the 2nd choice over DeJesus, who hasn’t played there much the last few yrs.
As I’ve posted, I don’t think Sizemore is worth anything more than a minor league contract anymore. Additional problem is that many doubt that he could play CF anymore. Crisp had an OBP 2 points better than Torres. DeJesus is no CFer. I’d go with Andres and Cody. I doubt Ross will get what he’s looking for in FA. Just as I ( and many of my esteemed colleagues) expected the down year from Huff in 2011 ( just not THAT down), I’d expect he’ll bounce back this year. Huff, Torres/Ross, Nate will play bettter than it sounds, IMO. And just as I wouldn’t get too excited about Crawford hitting .320 in the AFL, I wouldn’t freak about Brown’s .220. These are limited samples. Maybe the guy to watch carefully is Belt, who is just not tearing it up, and he’s one who reallly should be. If they’re not convinced about him, it brings a lot of potential FAs back into play. It’s a sticky wicket…
I think Sabean has to shake things up. Love Andres, but…he’ll be 34 and his hamstrings are prone to injury. At the very least, they have to have another guy who can lead off and play CF.
Crisp over Torres? Yes. No question. At least Crisp has more of a fair to middling track record that Torres’ one good year . . .
Ross? Man, I don’t know. Too much Burrell. Too many days off. Yeah, he’d be a backup, but Crisp will get hurt if they get him, so Ross will be in the mx.
I’m for Torres, but that is heart over head. I want to believe he has one or two years of near-2010 production left in him. My head doubts that is true, pitchers have a good book on how to frustrate him now, and he just doesn’t seem to have the confidence required to keep small slumps under control and make adjustments.
Cody is a mystery to me. I dunno why he hits and why he doesn’t. I just hope he doesn’t kill somebody with one of the bats he routinely sends into the stands. Like Torres, I hope the Giants keep him because I just like the guy.
My suspicion is that everything rests on what the Giants have in the heart of the order. If Freddy can give them 120 games of good production, if Posey can get back to where he was, if Sandoval stays on course, and if one more guy gets signed or develops from within, then the Giants have a solid lineup 2-5. Torres sees a lot better pitches, and does a lot more damage with his speed from the leadoff spot with that lineup, even if he is not the hitter he was in 2010. Bottom line for me is, if Sabean is confident in his 2-5, it is either going to be Torres or somebody like Crisp.
Torres would probably win the job from Crisp anyway, so why spend the bucks? As usual, Chuckles is settling for getting a guy who is better than another guy’s off year. If he’s going to off Torres at least do it for a guy who has a chance to be GOOD, not just passable. Alex Gonzales is our SS and Crisp the new CFer? That’s a disgusting prospect.If they’re to settle for slugs like that, just let Crawford and Brown do the sucking for 2012, at least there MIGHT be an upside down the line.
Chuck should stick to football.
As the front office is making clear, getting the pitching staff squared away is the first priority. Fact is, when that’s done, they CAN win without any major additions. Which is good, because it’s highly unlikely there will be any. Crisp, Sizemore, or DeJesus? Torres, Ross, and “pick a minor leaguer” is better and cheaper…
Crisp will be the one they sign. The stars are aligned on this one. When talk started to surface at the end of the year that Crisp is interested and the Giants were also possibly interested, no need to read the tea leaves further. I have no problem lettign Torres compete for it and if he beats him, he beats him. Crisp for $5 mill a year for two years, no big whoop….the problem is with Torres’ head and hard to predict if he will be 100% with that this year. We have to have a proven leadoff guy and the only one in our price range and that has shown interest in us is Crisp.
If Sizemore would take a $1 mill with incentives, there is no harm adding him with Crisp. DeJesus did shit last year after the Giants showing interest before the traade deadline in 2009 before he got hurt. Everything he gives you, Nate is probably better at at this point, especially in the field.
The only other thing I see happening is hopefully a deal for a bigger bat with J. Sanchez saying goodbye. Wrapping up Cain and getting Lincecum’s arb deal done are the next two steps before anything else..
They’ve won with Velez, Rowand, and Ross leading off. They hardly HAVE to have a proven leadoff guy.I love it- Crisp and Sizemore- 9 million a year between ’em, two years each. If they flop- no biggie. Why not 9 million for ONE guy who might actually be, like, you know…good.
How novel!
my sentiments exactly…why f around with these chumps? go get a real hitter.
Speaking of the pitching staff, I just read yesterday elapsed the Giants’ exclusive rights to sign Mota
Sad news. Matty Alou passed away at 72. R.I.P.
Down year? Torres has ONE good year under his belt his entire career. Nothing points to him returning to that, Mike, no matter how hard you want it to.
Crisp may not be spectacular, but he’ll do better than Torres.
We can beat the FA acquisitions til we’re blue in the face. There’s no one especially spectacular available. Crisp is there. That’s why they get him. Alex Gonzalez? Why the fuck not? They ain’t in the Rollins/Reyes sweepstakes. Who else?
Either that or they trade Drrrty/Affledt/Surkamp for Andrew McCutchen . . .
you’re not gonna get McCutchen for that package…..
I know. It’s just that there’s nothing to get in the FA market that’s going to be any more exciting that Coco Crisp and Alex Gonzalez.
Beltran MAY be a remote possibility, but other than that, where’s the beef going to come from?
Nowhere.
McCutchen was my end of the year wish pick for our starting CF. Chuck, if you can get the Pirates to go for that trade I’d be a very happy man. It would also indicate that the old Pittsburgh GM is back and that they atr our minor league team again.
Alex Gonzalez and Coco Crisp- and, I’ll presume, any old slug for Dirty. Pathetic, Chucklefuck..
Who else, Mike? Rollins and Pujols? Dream on. What shining stars are the Giants going to sign, skippy?
Frankly, Flav, I see Ross doing better than Torres short-term. Sorry, Andres. Byeeeee….
See my 12:11 for my awesome trade propsal, Twinkledick
Who is skippy?
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of signing Crisp and making sure we have Torres (not Ross) to back him up. Crisp’s probablem isn’t going to be consistency, it’s going to be health. He had a down year in 2011 but he’s had many years before that that would be fine. And if Torres does bounce back, no lock but a chance he will, then we can play both of them……..
Make sure he has Blue Cross.
If they’d stoop so low as to sign A-Gony and Cereal Boy, as I said- far better off to just let Brown and Crawford, Panik, or Adrianza struggle up here. They’re winning the division with or without “Chuck’s Slugs”, no point in spending money on crap.
“Either that or they trade Drrrty/Affledt/Surkamp for Andrew McCutchen . ” The Pirates are going to pay 11 million dollars for Affelt and Sanchez, both coming off injuries to boot? Denny has extras, take a Ledger…
Utter poppycock, Twinkledick. AZ was supposed to fade last year. They didn’t. Tejada was supposed to hit 20. He didn’t. The Giants weren’t supposed to get waylaid by injuries. They did.
Playing to the level of the competition is a dangerous game. Other teams can catch fire and roll to the division title. Colo did it 2 years ago, SD almost did it last year, and AZ did it this year. So, we get “Stand pat, and we win cuz we’re a little better than the competition.” That’s a recipe for 2nd place, pal.
As we saw, injuries cropped up, and the team faded badly. If the team stands pat, Tim and Matty, among others, would be a little disappointed at the direction of the team. I would, too.
Twinkledick?
Doing nothing is not an option. Even if it’s the proverbial rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, they’ll make moves . . .
Chuck as the Captain ……..Oh BLEEP IT! I should have taken swimming lessons!
You can’t factor in possible injuries, and without ours , the Dbacks would have been selling on 7-31.
And Tim and Matt are doing just fine- that’s utter bullshit. They have rings, they’re already making a shitload of money, if they leave it will be for MORE money, not these unproven run support theories. Anyway- Do nothing? Infinitely better than Crisp and A-Gony…
And shut the fuck up about Tejada- no one thought he’d fail that badly. No one. Look- I’m a nice guy., I haven’t pulled up the shit about how Whiteside was just fine, and how many times Zito fooled you idiots…
Adding Posey and Fruckie back in the mix ain’t doing nothing, pal- it’s adding ten games to the win column, as long as they continue to retain the pitching staff.
The FatHead Theorem-sign a MLB regular to back up every guy just in case of injury.
I never said they wouldn’t make moves, I’ve listed the ones that make sense. Yours don’t. You bitch about Tejada then want a guy whose last year was worse than Tejada’s 2010.
There is no way to predict the best path here. You pays your money and you takes your chances. I won’t carp about any decision until it fails. Then I’ll haul out the bass-o-matic.
I remember a watching a game this year where Crisp couldn’t throw the ball all the way to the infield from deep center field. I know he battled injuries this year, but that is a hard image to shake. The guy just doesn’t get on base enough to warrant taking on his liabilities. I don’t want to see the guy at center in Pac Bell.
ATT
Crisp needs 3 cut off men- to get it to second base…
Ouch!
Rail all you want Mike, but the team is not going to stand pat. Regardless of who is coming back from injury and who is coming back from down years.
Fruckie may not get back on the field, for all of his problems. Posey I’m not that worried about. He’s young and strong and he looks to be on his way to a full recovery.
Huff is a big ? Torres? Schierholtz? Crawford? Belt? Fruckster? Drrrty? Vogie? They have too many holes. We have Pablo and Posey and what? Fruckie may be fine, but maybe not. They can’t go into another season with this many questions. They have 6 potential starters that are shakey at best. Another year of losing close games will wear on these guys as the glow of the 2010 World Series fades into the past.
YOU are railing, Chucklefuck, I’m explaining how things work. I’ve said they’ll make a few additions. To an extent it’s like Fox playing Tebow, fans want to see him. And fans like you you don’t give a shit if he’s horrible- he’s different.
Of all the possible major additions, it’s funny that the best one (Beltran) is the most commonly nixed. Anyway,I posted weeks ago that they’d probably sign Crisp- he’s as safe an option as they have but will do absolutely nothing to improve the team. They ain’t filling all those “holes” you list:at least 4 will be in the starting LU and Vogelsong and your whipping boy Dirty will most likely be the 4 and 5 starting pitchers.. If you can’t live with that, pick another team to root for.
Oh my, already sniping about who the Giants should get and it isn’t even ST!! I have not looked up anything on these guys, but if they are FA and if they were any good the teams they are on would sign them. Tejada and Cabrera types? Oh hell no! Buster and Freddie back, absolutely nothing wrong with standing pat. Continue to bring guys up from the minors.
Braves would like to free up some additional salary to pursue free agents and they are interested in trading Jair Jurrjens and Martin Prado (whom are likely to earn around $10 million in 2012 via the arbitration process).
Prado’s production plummeted this season, as he hit just .260 with a .687 OPS following three straight .800 OPS campaigns. He’s unlikely to fetch a huge return in trade, but could certainly help plenty of teams with infield openings. Even after the down season Prado is a 28-year-old career .293 hitter with a .775 OPS. He also has played approx. 110 games in the outfield (mostly left field). His 2011 salary was 3.1 million. Interesting . . .
John Shea is pushing the Giants to sign Beltran. Specifically, he says, “The Giants might have a chance by offering two years with a vesting option or perhaps a three-year guarantee (obtainable for $15 million per year or less) with the condition he’d play left field to make room for Nate Schierholtz, a better defender, in right.”
Me? I say thank you and goodbye to Mr. Beltran.
Me too! Goodbye and good riddance
Beltran gives the lineup credibility. If the price is right, they’d be crazy not to.
Provided he plays LF.
Chuck, do you think $15 million for 3 years as the price being right?
Me? No fucking way.
I think that they’re concerned about Belt and envision Huff back at first. I have no idea why anyone would object to a deal like Shea describes for Beltran. And if some can claim that they can live with Crawford hitting .200, with Beltran on board they can definitely live with the best defensive CFer in baseball along side. Then maybe Barmes becomes the best FA SS option, he’s certainly better than A-Gony right now. Add Barajas and they have some guys who can “run into one”.
It’s funny that flotsam like the three in the poll would be preferred over Beltran. I’m not exactly his biggest fan but I have no idea how people can spit on the kind of numbers he’s shown he can put up. Yeah, fuck Beltran, Coco is available!!!!!
Hey Mike, don’t tell me what kind of fan I am.
YOU are a condescending prick of the highest order. Fan or not. Please go fuck yourself.
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No one is saying they prefer Crisp over Beltran, moronicle. Lots of people think the Giants won’t be in the running. Not when teams like Boston can double our money and years, and not blink an eye.
Loud BLEEPS are emitting from the Chuck abode! Neighbors are checking their 911 number.
How does one “check” one’s 911 number?
I think sometimes it gets a little bit “heated” in here and I think everyone here is a Giants fanatic, whereby no one has to defend their loyalty and love toward the Giants . . . In short, I don’t know any of you “personally” per se, but I love each of you because we have a common bond – The Giants!
Blade: Yeah, it does get a bit overheated in the flap-room from time to time, but as fully warranteed Giants fans we are family. Of course if any given two-party argument goes on more than say, five or so back n forths, Room B could always work in a loft just beneath the 12 foot ceiling.
$15 mill/3 years? If he’ll take it, do it.
He won’t take it.
That’s 15 million per year.
Hey, we we can get Rowand back for 12M more if he’s not mad at Bwian.
Room B is the room of civility, Stix.
As far as Chuckles- if you want Crispy and A-Gony, I *will* tell you what kind of fan you are- a frigging idiot fan. Maybe your brain got frostbit in the ‘Stick days..
Interesting article in the Denver Post about the Rockies off season needs and who they are likely to go after . . . Interesting quote from their GM, “In this division, you win or lose with starting pitching,” O’Dowd said.
http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_19236135?source=commented-rockies
Giants prospects generally looking rough so far in the AFL and other winter leagues.
http://sfgiants.scout.com/2/1119455.html
As for Beltran, I like his production, but I just don’t like the way he carries himself, nor his knee issues that could derail him. Plus, my usual aversion to older FAs applies. As I’ve said before, the best I’d go is 2 years with a team option/buyout for year three, and he plays LF. He has a new agent, Boras is gone, so maybe that will smooth things a bit if the Giants are interested. Cuddyer is out there, he can play OF and/or 2nd, so he’s attractive in light of Franchez’ shoulders,, but he’s not got the electric bat Beltran has/had, nor is he a switch hitter. But he’s younger than Beltran at 32, has a K / AB ratio under 20%, takes walks now and then, and has over .800 OPS, so he’ll command some big $ over a longer term. I’d go 3 and 1 in a contract for him, still he doesn’t excite me that much. Unfortunately, there’s not a lot of exciting OFers out there…
Yeah, Cuddyer wants to get paid . . . He’s a lifelong Twin who turned down a two-year, $16 million offer during the season. Cuddyer, 32, hit .284 with 20 home runs and 70 RBIs in 139 games.
I was in on Cuddyer a couple years ago, but he’s poor defender who has become worse . As it was at the deadline, Beltran is the best available. Unless you think Kubel or Willingham are better.
I’d be fine with WIllingham–I’ve always liked him. He finally got a chance to play full time and put up some very nice numbers last year–in Oakland, no less, where bats go to die……..
Willingham is making noises about wanting to be in the south. He’s from Alabama. Miami may be a likely stop, maybe Atlanta?…
Problem is that unless he goes feet up right away, Huff has left field unless they give up on Belt for now. That’s a problem- they need a CFer if you buy that Torres and Ross can’t do it and there aren’t FA CFers worth a shit. Hard to imagine Willingham anywhere but LF.
Rockies have Ross on their radar per the article I quoted above. Agree with Mike about Cuddyer . . . poor defender.
Ross would be a good fit there.
Twin, they need pitching so bad, that they are going to probably trade Seth Smith for pitching help, thus the need for someone like Cuddyer . . . They will probably fail in getting Cuddyer, so Plan B is Ross or Gomes.
Anyone know who the Dbacks are targeting?
Nobody. They’re confident that they would have won it anyway without our injuries to Posey, Fruckie, Pablo, Torres, Ross, Burrell,Belt, Sanchez, Nate… They figger getting Drew back more than makes up for the Giants’ injuries…
Good, because that is a BIG mistake on their part. With the Rockies having more holes than Swiss cheese, the Giants can do just about NOTHING in the off-season – only getting back Freddie and Posey – where they will win running away. I see the Dodgers in transition with new ownership, coupled with Kuroda possibly leaving and a bullpen that is terrible. San Diego will bring up the rear.
Would think Towers will try and improve the bullpen, maybe LF. They have some awfully good pitching prospects that could crack the rotation or bolster the pen. Or be used in trade. Upton just turned 24! I think G’s will have their hands full again.
I was only kidding although more than one commenter has tried to equate the loss of Drew to our losses..Since we don’t know what anyone will do, both teams as-is and healthy- Giants by a huge margin…
Matty Alou. We need someone like him. The guy could hit. Are any Alou grandkids available? The name is magic (in the right year).
Sign Sonny Tufts and sign him now!!
Goodnight, gentlemen (question mark)