*Fixing* the Outfield…….
Judging by the poll results, most of you would sign Crisp to start and have Vungo waiting in the wings. I’m on board with that. I think Torres, minus the expectations he had last year, could *revert* back to the guy who banged out 43 doubles in 2010. THAT GUY would be better than any free agent outfielder on the current market except maybe Beltran. But of course, we can’t assume that Torres will turn back to be that guy. Between the two of them though, it’s reasonable to expect that you get something much improved out of what that position gave us last year……..
And I would love to get Beltran on a 3 year deal, and I suppose it is at least possible. But this guy has fired Boras, he has something up his sleeve, and I don’t think it’s to come back to San Francisco, a place that his body language appeared to dislike. If we did somehow find a way to sign Beltran, I would also sign Willingham to play left field. Then I’d sign Vungo on the super cheap–that stud defense hasn’t gone anywhere, he can protect those two in the outfield and MAYBE with reduced expectations he will find his long lost bat, too……
But make no mistake, we can’t bring back all the same guys, bet on a bunch of *maybe will reverts* and expect that the return of Franchez and Posey will fix this offense. Think back to 2010, who made this offense work? In addition to Posey and Franchez, it was Torres, Huff, Uribe, Burrell, and Ross. Those are FIVE (5) guys who aren’t with us literally and figuratively anymore. And it isn’t just the actual players this line up misses, it’s the chemistry of it. Sabean CANNOT stand pat and bring all the same guys back hoping that Franny/Posey fix this thing………
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
One of the larger issues facing the giants is the production of Huff. If he does in fact revert to form (every other year is good), that adds a very solid bat in the middle of the order. But if Belt is able to contribute at the major league level, you start to play musical chairs with the positions. And if he doesn’t revert to form, you very definitely need to add an outfielder or two. So they really won’t know if they’re thin or overstocked until the season starts (Huff had a very good ST last year so that obviously doesn’t count for much).
I haven’t looked at his post-season stats overall, but I kind of like keeping Ross around for just that. At least last year he was a force in the PS. And it’s guys like that, more so than the studs, who win post season series.
Having eye trouble today. Just can’t see going in to work.
My guess on Beltran firing Boras was due to Boras being a bit busy with Fielder and Pujols. Considering Beltran has said he doesn’t want to be a DH, I would think a three year deal from the Giants would do it. But Carlos also said that his biggest concern with the Giants was a top of the order guy setting the tables. I did enjoy seeing him work with Torres in the batting cage on The Franchise, so maybe his on field demeanor was just his game face.
With Bochy taking Torres along to Taiwan, I’d think he was definitely in the mix. Also, with Boch in Taiwan he is probably doing some scouting. Given this quote from him “I know I’ve got orders from my general manager to bring back two outfielders. We need some help there in San Francisco. So I’ll be scouting here, too.” , I guess probably isn’t the right word.
Maybe he comes back and we get Emilio Bonifacio, who could play SS or CF and wouldn’t be a bad top of the order kinda guy.
With the signings of Affeldt and Lopez one would have to think Runzler is trade material and depending on Belt (so much seems to hinge on him IMO) Pill might be enticing to some teams as well.
If the Giants could sign Beltran, their middle of the order is set and really at that point you’re only talking about someone to bat lead off, SS and a backup catcher.
Beltran at best is a big “IF.” His fielding has to decline with his age and knee and leg issues so what’s left? His bat is what everyone wants not his prescence in RF. If he lands in AL the DH position beckons.He’s probably fighting the thought of being a DH. It’s the end of the line for a good player.
Whether you like his tude or the way he carries himself, beltran is the best available option, imo. He played here and hit well, so he knows the deal (weather is cold, park is big, fans are awesome, team can win it all). I don’t think the clubhouse is a big deal—tejada and rowand are gone, posey is back (PS is relieved to say the least), those who struggled last year are after redemption.
So it really comes down to Nate belt huff—who can hit consistently, play where (1b/OF) and do what (.750-.850 OPS). And in Nate’s case, stay healthy. He might even be capable of being a CF. If you sign Beltran and add him to sando posey sanchez, I don’t have an issue with starting torres at the top and crawford hitting 8th.
And yeah, I don’t think AZ would be well served to stand pat. Putz and the pen, the kid at 1b, team full of rather undisciplined hitters, quickly exposed exit from first round of playoffs…
Nice name……Putz
Mateo Alou was a cool player, by all accounts quiet and unassuming and physically much smaller than siblings. When he was here the OF was just too crowded for him to get much PT. Remember, they tried to play both Mac and Cepeda out there to keep both in the LU along side Mays. He was just one of a ton of talented black and latin OF the Giants dumped off too soon who went on to stardom elsewhere.
What I remember him for in SF was his ability to drag bunt. He could execute this move beautifully even as PH off the bench, getting bat head and body out in front and pulling the ball along the line where no one could get to it in time to throw him out at first. Lost art to get the ball in just the right spot, and I haven’t seen anyone do it here near as well save Brett Butler.
here’s a cool Matty Alou link from the Hardball Times guy:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/blog_article/matty-alou-career-highlights/
Crisp gets votes only because he’s the only CFer/Leadoff hitter available. I’ve always posted they may very well sign him but he would not improve the team overall. And they are not signing two corner outfielders- again, as I’ve pointed out, Huff has LF. Willingham is out for that reason, unless they bail on Belt. The team *IS* the favorite to win the NL West as-is, as they very well should be- so not making stupid to moves to satisfy the loonie fringe is of most importance- Dirty should be the 5 starter, get Beltran if it can be done for 3 years, a back up catcher like Barajas, and a guy like Barmes on a 1 year deal… whatever they can’t get done, use kids, they’re winning this anyway..the necessities are the back up catcher and at least capable insurance for Crawdaddy…
It’s kinda funny- everyone who participated, and that was almost everybody, said the Giants would have won the West easily if they’d had Posey and Fruckie- now almost all say they have no chance next year unless they get them back AND make big changes.
BTW, Crawford is slowly but inexorably reverting to form in the AFL- Panik is starting to hit, the guy really raking is Hector Sanchez. Belt is blah.
If we’re good enough as is, I say fuck Beltran. Money is tight after extending Cain and paying Tim, Zits et al…I’m signing Sizemore, and wagering that he’ll be next yr’s JJ Hardy.
Beltran is for the postseason. The thing with Sizemore- as BP has written- the Indians know him better than anybody- if they had any reasonable hope that he’d be returning to form, 9 million is nothing for that guy. But I have no big problem with a minor league deal for Sizemore or AT MOST a couple million for a major league deal.
Forget these big time FA……..they don’t want SF anyway. SF is too cold and too far from home wherever that is. Most of these minor FA aren’t worth warm spit. Will they make a difference? Dream on. To get something worth while……a trade should be made.
Fruckine is now damaged goods with 2 injured shoulders. He will probably hit the DL next year. It’s not just Posey and Sanchez, Mike. It’s Torres, Huff, Belt, Crawford, Schierholtz, and how long Sanchez stays upright. How long remains to be seen. Which is why they should keep Keppie. Belt may very well play his way back to Fresno. What then? Another year of Ross? Torres? Yippee. At this point, 2 spots are nailed down. 3rd base and catcher. The rest are not settled by any means.
The point being, guys will get hurt again. Barajas? Paulino? Crisp? Fine. Banking on the status quo would be a dangerous move in my book. You don’t like A-Gon? Bully. Who then? Pencil in Crawfish? He’s another one that could play his way downwards. Thing is A-Gon is the typical Sabes move. Don’t be too surprised when it happens.
Where’s Skippy?
You’ve said all that. And wrongo again. You think 6 spots are open? You’re a fucking idiot. And I’ve always said they should keep Keppinger. I’ve given my options- write them down and STFU instead of once again misrepresenting them.
“The point being, guys will get hurt again.” And if we have as many this year as in 2011, we’ll fall short again, shithead. No one knows who will get injured, it could be half the pitching staff instead of 7 of the 8 opening day position player starters. You can’t cover for that possibility.
Anyway- why don’t you say what you’d do do instead of this BS about “typical Sabes moves’? Then when I ask who you’d get for Dirty and Affeldt it’s “Duh, I dunno. Ask Brian”.
Now talk to someone else from now on. I wasn’t addressing you.
OK- as you can see, I do most of my posting in the morning. If you sleep in, it’s easier to ignore my posts. Anyway, nap time for me. And look, Craig has suggested Beltran AND Willingham. It’s not like I think it’s a bad idea, it’s just not one that I think has a prayer of happening. Have a nice A.M.
Twin right again!
Bryce Harper on his recent run.
“I definitely am maturing,” Harper explained. “I’m trying to learn from the older guys like [Brandon] Crawford and that has been huge.”
!
Willingham is certainly doable. If he can hit in the Masoleum, he can hit here.
It’s not doable unless they bail on either Huff or Belt. Which one? Make a call.
That’s the point Mike. Both could end up being shit. Huff is the one more likely to fade. Belt has potential.
If that’s the point, you’re even more of an idiot. Huff has an 11 mililion dollar contract and has LF. And they aren’t going to get Willingham because “both could end up being shit”. One goes BEFORE they get Willingham. Huff ain’t going anywhere so the only way Willingham comes here is if they give up on Belt, at least to start. They won’t go forever with Huff, but he WILL be in the LU opening day, barring injury. Of course, that won’t be a problem because Ghead has already picked up Ryan Howard “just in case”…
It’s pretty clear that getting Beltran is and should be their priority. Next would be a SS ( a Barmes or Santiago), then either one of our AAA catchers ( Ramirez or Hector) or a Barajas. Hell, give Sizemore the ML deal and start figuring out the playoff rotation. Who follows Dirty? Matt or Tim?
to be clear about my *Beltran/Willingham/torres* idea– I don’t think that has a chance of happening either because Twin is right, either Belt or Huff would have to go. But that is what I WOULD DO. And my next call would be to bench Huff and give Belt the 1-bag job until he fucks it up. Huff can be a 4th outfielder or a bench guy until he’s needed to replace Belt or an injured corner guy. Will Sabean do this? Of course not. But this is what I would do…….
Now good NIGHT!
But Chuck wants to argue!
I don’t want to argue, Nippy. I’m concerned about the lineup as it currently stands.
Heresy, I suppose.
Questions, Mike. I didn’t say 6 spots were open. What I’m saying is 6 spots are weak. The backups are weaker. And Fruckie is no guarantee to start camp or even the season healthy. All those guys I mentioned are problems in the making. Is Posey going to make everything better? Yeah, he’ll help, but not enough.
Beltran is right about the lineup.
Every player you list is a good MLB player( of the veterans) – the problem with your analysis, as always, is that everything is utterly black ands white- NONE of them will rebound for a good year. Just to give you something to rag on, this line up, if healthy and with the pitching staff intact, would win the West in 2012. Try to disagree without swallowing your cud..
C Posey
1B Belt
2B Fruckie
SS Keppinger
3b Sandoval
Lf Huff
CF Torres/Ross platoon
RF Nate
Beltran, another SS, etc will help depth and improve the chance of going deep in the postseason, but IMO the LU I’ve listed would win the NL West. Again, try to disagree without scaring your children.And yes, I’m playing Kepp at SS and if he’s retained, don’t be surprised if he does.
The big question. Why is Buster leading off?
Hyuk . . . it’s a joke, son.
That line up will score a liiiiiiiiiiiittle bit more than the 2011 Giants. That’s a problem. OK?
Again, those guys not named Posey or Panda are all questions going forward. Will they suck as hard as last year? Maybe. Maybe not. They need more than just Beltran though. Beltran and Crisp would do a lot to help the lousy output of the OF. Throw in a SS, there you go. It doesn’t have to be A Gon. Keppie is a known entity at least. I thought from the get-go they’d keep him. Sabes surprised me with his ‘too expensive as a backup’ call seeing as how fragile Freddy has become.
And please try to understand that your opinion isn’t the be-all end-all. The rest of us can have opinions as well. Scare the children? Please. When did you stop beating Zeke?
Chuckie, you are the one who bludgeons others with your opinions. There wasn’t anything at all disrespectrful to anyone here in my posts this morning- as usual, it’s only after your overheated bullshit that anything got unpleasant.
Lots of talk about LSU/Alabama- and Gumbo. Link to the right for a video on Chicken Gumbo. Justin Wilson is a cornball, but he’s fun to listen to and he knows how to cook. Maybe you want to talk about what you like to eat for the games…
I couldn’t resist and actually watched the “Bathroom Makeover” in its entirety (yes, it was tough) that Flav posted along with his blog post today . . . If the “Giants Makeover” turns out like this bathroom did, WE ARE IN TROUBLE. 😉
I was wondering what you were talking about.
Is that on the H&G channel? They have some good stuff. There’s a guy named “Mike” who fixes the fuck ups that Unca_Chuck’s Construction and makes…Elmer’s Glue for affixing roof tiles may save a few bucks but…
Maybe Mike, not certain . . . For whatever reason, the YouTube video Flav had up there disappeared after I watched it and posted. The bathroom was ugly and the so called makeover improved it incrementally (if at all). Some young guy with black hair was the host/contractor.
Bludgeons? Read my 10:03 and your f-bomb laced response, Mike. I never said 6 spots are open, I said 6 spots are unsettled. You misrepresent what I said, and then get all het up (hyuk) about it.
As usual, you start talking major shit and then claim innocence. Like you are the only one that has the right to be pissed or to have an opinion. Boo hoo.
Fine, see ya, skippy. Keep darkening this little corner of cyberspace.
If you two were in the same kitchen, would there be a food fight?
IF Chuck was in my kitchen, Zeke would ask for fava beans and Chianti..
Your 10:03 is what started it, shit for brains. You are a total fucking idiot. One more time, please explain to all of us what the Baseball Reference defensive stats mean…You actually do not have the right to an opinion until you know what the fuck you’re talking about…
“Unsettled” and “Open” are the same fucking thing, moron…
And I should have said that it started with a couple dozen braindead posts from Chuck yesterday. But typical was the “discussion” about Schierholtz where Unca was dead certain that Nate had played LF ( he hadn’t) because Chuckie didn’t know what a defensive stat meant. He was dead wrong and belligerently insisted he wasn’t based on a hilariously stupid misperception… he still hasn’t admitted to being wrong- instead he attacks the guy who was right.
But for those who want to discuss it without rancor-I’ve said I think that they would win as-is, but have also suggested improvements.
Whatever, Mike.
Oh! Oh! You said Ort-Rod would go .280/20/85!!! 20 bombs for Tejada!!!! Ray Ray is DUE!!!!! You predicted the Giants would reach the playoffs until the year they finally did it! Vogie will revert to form! Everyone on the fucking team at one point or another was poised for greatness and the HOF according to you.
I didn’t know some arcane stat. Again, Mike, bully for you and your love of baseball minutae. Choke on it, motherfucker.
My posts yesterday ended up being the impetus for this thread today. The team cannot (and shouldn’t) stand pat. That’s my point. Why aren’t you busting a gut over Flav saying the same thing?
Piss off, and see ya in the funny papers . . .
Huge BLEEP!
Chuck, It’s too bad that you cry foul over others trying to start shit like how you pouted over my comments on the Insider after half that blog was talking shit on the Raiders blog after the Chiefs won two weeks ago. First of all, it’s the truth–the Niners have a one-way ticket to yet another playoff beat-down by the Packers in Lambeau…and, furthermore, don’t cry over me talking about the Niners when you crack jokes about Al Davis laughing maniacally in hell etc. etc. SF is a shoe-in for the post-season–I’ll be happy if the Raiders squeak in–but the Niners have a harsh wake-up call coming. Twin’s not impressed with these so-called prospects and neither am I, maybe except for Crisp, who’s good as a utility man and a base-stealer but not much more. I seriously hope we haven’t gotten so desperate for offense that the topic on JDR about Timmy being traded to save money for big bats has to be taken seriously. My point is, you like to stir the pot hard and then you shit your pants when the juice starts to spill over out of the pot onto your clothes.
And in case you were wondering, I am following the Nine-ballers–that defense is looking epic, Vic Fangio is looking like a maniacal genius, and I see a defensive beast being born vis a vis Ravens 2000 or Bears mid-80s. Too bad Alex is still an overrated QB who will be exposed sooner or later…he’s luckier than a skunk in a shit-heap he has Gore to fall back on.
Shaman-138
Wtf are you saying on other blogs? I find you interesting and largely uncontroversial.
The Al Davis joke is a COMPLEMENT to him. Shanny didn’t have the balls to face him down. He had Elvis throw a football at him.
Yer dogging me over shit other people post on the Raydur blog? Good one, zippy. I don’t cry about anything. You go on and one endlessly about how awful the Splash is re:trolls. And you troll the Niner blog. Duh.
Sham has been trolling the Insider for about 3 years now. He’s slowing down from his earlier days, but still posting . . .
Actually, of late I’ve tried to have opinions that wouldn’t create too much controversy. Whether they want to admit it or not, Craig and Chuck have always loved to get into beefs- both did it with many others on the Splash and Insider, not just with me. I admit to being easy to get into it with- but it’s completely disingenous for either to suggest they’re goaded into it or it’s any more my “fault” than theirs. They *love* it. And that’s not a slam. Chuck in particular has been bashin’ and smashin’ for years. Other than those two, the only guys I have really gotten into it with much are Snarkk and Death Threat Denny, enough said on THAT.. so anyway, I really don’t want to argue with anybody,and actually, I try not to as much as before. But it’s CHUCKLES, whaddya gonna do?
Unca Fuckles has had the same 3 predictions of mine to piss about forever. At least they all had some merit based on performance… ( Ortmeier STILL has the best rookie OPS since at least 2005 except for Panda and Posey, .814 in 2007) . Chucklefucks position on Tejada: nothing. Our second baseman of the future: Frandsen.
Stick with my calls.
Chuck in a china shop would be an interesting sight. I would pay to see that.
Chuck would break the merchandise and blame the shopkeeper for the display…
And my comments about standing pat have been made to ALL, never just to Fuckles. Anyone is free to disagree and many have. Only Unca turns it into a melee. Again- he LOVES it.
And I did call the division championship in 2010- in fact I’m the only one who never wavered from that. That’s common knowledge here- Death Threat Denny consistently mocked me for it.
And yet another lie- NEVER said “Voggy” would revert to form. Said I hoped he wouldn’t. Major diff…
” Drrrty/Affledt/Surkamp for Andrew McCutchen..” the reason it would never happen has zero to with whether that’s enough to get McCutcheon. The Pirates don’t pay their players. They’re not taking on 11 million and trading 450K. Not to mention it would be for two pitchers coming off injury. That’s 25% of their payroll.
And I don’t even charge Chucky for that stuff. Good evening.
well, you’re telling everyone in early November that “we’re winning the West in 2012!”. You said the same thing this year, you were even taking bets on it in August. Oops. I said the same thing, of course. The difference between you and me is that I see the holes in our offense and you think it’s all fixed with the return of Franchez and Posey. It’s not. And I think it’s funny that you have decided Sizemore and Crisp are done but you envision re-births for Huff and Torres. The fact is, all, some or none of those guys could eat it or soar–or just be average. But to just say, “let’s go with all the players we had last year” (and I know you aren’t saying that specifically but it’s what it *sounds* like) is just pot-stirring shit. I know it, you know it. I like it, it keeps the blog humming in the off season. But don’t sit here and accuse Chuck of starting shit with you. You’re just better than he is at the nuances of starting a blog argument……..