Sorting Out the Angel Villalona Fiasco

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on February 22, 2012

In the scheme of the upcoming season, this is an absolute non-issue. Villalona will have nothing to do with the outcome of any mlb games, he’ll have no impact at all on the season. But that doesn’t make the news coming out about his failure to secure a P-1 visa any less interesting.

After the dust started to settle on this last night and I stopped LQTM at my *hilarious* fat-jokes, the official explanation for why he’s delayed really didn’t make any sense. Bobby Evans said that this particular visa requires the player to be “an elite athlete in top physical condition”. I posted the P-1 requirements last night from the US immigration website and read through it twice. I couldn’t find a single reference to “having to be in top physical condition”. Then, according to either Evans or Schulman (it’s not clear in HS’s blog post who said this), “The US government has decided that Villalona does not meet that requirement because of a combination of excessive weight and an ongoing medical condition…”—note: I put that in quotes, it’s from Henry’s blog. But since he didn’t reference who said this (it appears he’s attributing it to Evans but it’s not in quotes) it’s hard to analyze this statement. Was this an official US statement of some kind? Or did Evans relay this info to Schulman? If he did, why didn’t he put it in quotes? I suppose it’s possible that since it’s HS’s blog post that this is his opinion of what’s happening. Regardless, more bad reporting, in my opinion, but I’m used to that from Bay Area scribes not names “Baggarly”.

Here’s a link to Schulman’s article if you want to take a crack at figuring this out: http://tinyurl.com/7j84ks6

Evans specifically said, “We’ve been informed that, in their opinion, he doesn’t qualify as an elite athlete.” This was what I heard him say on KNBR on the way in this morning.

Here is what qualifies you as an elite athlete:

“Before you can apply, a U.S. employer, sponsor or agent must file a petition with the USCIS in the U.S. The petition will include a contract with a major U.S. sports league, team or one that is internationally recognized. It will also include evidence that you are internationally recognized in your sport. Such evidence includes:

Your international ranking
Significant honors or award you received in your sport
Written statements from a recognized expert or sports media
Written statements from a major U.S. sports league
Significant participation in a U.S. major league season
Significant participation in a U.S. college / university season during the intercollegiate season

After the petition is approved, you can apply for the P-1 visa through your U.S. consulate or embassy.”

I don’t see anything in there that would hold up Villalona. And there isn’t anything subjective about being an elite athlete like your height, weight, etc. You just have to qualify with *evidence* listed above. So I guess it’s entirely possible that Evans is clueless on this and never did any information gathering at all regarding what the team’s responsibilities were in all of this.

To be clear, there is nothing about being overweight and/or having a medical condition that would preclude you from qualifying for a P-1 visa–at least nothing I could find at the US Immigration website. Feel free to do your own research on this, too……

In fact, my guess is that the Giants participated in this screw up. You can’t apply for a P-1 visa as an individual, a petition has to be filed by your employer and it has to include all sorts of details. Evans also said “We’re learning as we go here.” If the Giants are learning as they go it’s entirely possible that they didn’t file the correct paperwork or even know what needed to get filed.

More Evans double-speak: “We saw him in December and his weight was pretty close to what we were targeting.” He gives himself a lot of rope with this comment since they could have been targeting a weight of 350. But we don’t know since the beat writers didn’t ask follow up questions (or didn’t get those questions answered).

Who knows why Villalona was denied that visa? Maybe someone was shaking him down for dough again. Maybe he’s 400 pounds and couldn’t physical board the plane safely. How about a conspiracy theory: The Giants paid off someone in the DR to keep Villalona from getting into the US—Villalona is a PR nightmare, not to mention a threat to sue the Giants for *something*–if they thought he was too fat or too untalented to ever play ball again, just keep him out of the States—problem solved…..But I don’t think that’s what’s going on. I suspect the Giants DID play a huge role in all of this but probably just a paper work mismanagement role……

Would it have been too great an expense for the team to just send a rep down there to help get this kid the hell out of there? Sh!t, they’ve got 2.1 million invested in him already, they couldn’t have an intern spend a day doing research on the paperwork needed and then fly down there to walk Vilallona through all this?

Hell, I woulda volunteered to do it (and pay my own expenses) just to get a first hand look at this dude……

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Bozo said, on February 22, 2012 at 6:42 am

Evans also said “We’re learning as we go here.”

I’m confused, what makes this visa different from all the visas that the Giants players have been getting since the 60s? The only thing I can think of is the murder charge. Maybe that would deem him unfit to enter the country and not unfit as in out of shape.
Bozo said, on February 22, 2012 at 6:53 am

I’m thinking along the lines of the John Lennon thing. If he left the US he wouldn’t have been allowed back in because his pot bust was a felony at the time. They said his visa would have been revoked if he tried to reenter. I think the phrase was he would have been considered unfit to enter the country.
Flavor said, on February 22, 2012 at 6:59 am

that’s certainly possible. But if you read through what needs to be in order before a player is issued this type of visa, there is A LOT that the team has to do.
Here’s a pretty comprehensive FAQ:
http://faq.visapro.com/P1-Visa-FAQ.asp
Nipper said, on February 22, 2012 at 7:16 am

No comment.
Bozo said, on February 22, 2012 at 7:58 am

But the team has been dealing with visas since the 60s, so why would Evans say “We’re learning as we go here.” ?
I did read the link and I guess Angel not performing at any level last year would make this different. Of the criteria mentioned 1) The Giants needed to provide a contract (done) and they needed to provide two additional documents, most pertaining to proof of performance last year and or these two;
• Written statement from U.S. official in sport about athlete or team’s international recognition
• Written statement from expert or sport’s media as to international recognition
team or individual ranking

I would also think that being arrested for murder may add some new layers of documentation as well. But you’re right about the “an elite athlete in top physical condition” remark. I’m thinking maybe the Giants really don’t want the kid here this year and they’re blowing some sort of legal smoke to confuse any possible law suits. Either that or Sabes voted less than twenty at bats on your last poll.
- St said, on February 22, 2012 at 10:13 am
  
  Things have changed considerably since then with visa/immigration etc… especially after 9/11.
willieD said, on February 22, 2012 at 9:04 am

Bozo, yesterday the morning DJ at kcsm non commercial jazz station was blasting nola music for a couple hours—henry butler, dirty dozen, meters, irma thomas, p-hall (willie humphrey/cie frazier/pierces), plus a nice tune by guitarist dave stryker off a larger band side of all that style music. Most enjoyable way to set your day off to a good start.
Today btw is the b-day of Ernie K. doe, of the hit song “Mother in Law” from 1961 featuring Alan Toussaint on the piano solo. As Irma thomas said about the second line, “we’ll dance to celebrate anything.”
- Bozo said, on February 22, 2012 at 12:26 pm
  
  Willie, They played that “All on a Mardi Gras day”. “There ain’t but two songs that will stand the test of time, until the end of the world. One of them is ‘The Star Spangled Banner. The other one is ‘Mother-In-Law.'” – Ernie K Doe. I’m pretty sure Kermit Ruffins bought K Doe’s old Mother in Law Lounge last year because his daughter pretty much had to close the place down, so that’s pretty cool.
  Speaking of NOLA, we weren’t sure if we could afford Jazz fest this year for both weekends but after seeing the schedule we said fuck it, let’s go. Places are already getting sold out but we were able to get the shotgun we had last year (Uptown) and we get the festival tickets through a friend down there, so they were $45 instead of $65 if you wait (that’s per day, per person so for us your talking 14 tickets). Still, if you think about all the music that’s playing each day it’s a pretty good deal (I think they were like 10 bucks when I first started going).
willieD said, on February 22, 2012 at 9:10 am

I liked snarrk’s comment about all the info on the Giants that seems to be available, but separating the wheat from the chaff almost seems not worth the effort. Lincecum was stiff after throwing, hembree was popping the mitt, baggs runs a story on eli (which should only include stops on his farewell tour), various guys might be ready by….wake me when ST’s over.
twinfan1 said, on February 22, 2012 at 9:42 am

Here’s a novel idea- wait until more facts come out and then make an informed opinion.
- TedSpe said, on February 22, 2012 at 10:27 am
  
  Killjoy
twinfan1 said, on February 22, 2012 at 9:54 am

Evans says he was told by U.S. Consulate in the Dominican Republic that health reasons were why the visa was delayed. I know I’m in the minority, but I don’t presume all Giants’ officials are lying 24/7.
twinfan1 said, on February 22, 2012 at 10:04 am

Baggarly says the same fucking thing as everyone else. Try to rememember that they are all relying on what the U.S. Consulate in the Dominican Republic tells them.
http://tinyurl.com/6utb7re
Flavor said, on February 22, 2012 at 10:15 am

a 10 minute scan of the US immigration website can tell you that the *reasons* don’t make any sense. As I said, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if it turns out the Giants completely fucked this up because they didn’t do their homework on what it was going to take to get this kid out of there…..
snarkk said, on February 22, 2012 at 10:27 am

Assuming Villalona eventually makes it to Arizona, BFD. After all the mess of the last coupla years, his developed has been squelched, big time. He’s only 21, but two years of training down the tubes at that age is huge. He’s a long shot to ever help at the MLB level for this organization, particularly with the legal baggage, regardless of what really happened in that bar and in the DR courts. I don’t think Baer wants a dude arrested for murder to take swings at ATT, ever. $2.1 million is chump change when it comes to bad PR. I predict his arc will be to bounce in the Giants minors another two – three years, and eventually wind up in another organization without even a cuppa coffee at ATT…
twinfan1 said, on February 22, 2012 at 11:25 am

I can’t think of anyone who thinks he’ll play for the Giants at the MLB level…
but whatever, you can never go wrong thinking the worst of people…
And there is actually a very specific reason by which the visa could be denied to Angel:
“To perform at a specific athletic competition as an athlete, individually or as part of a group or team, at an internationally recognized level of performance”
- Flavor said, on February 22, 2012 at 11:41 am
  
  he’s already done that before…..
  And besides, that’s not the reason given—it was that he wasn’t an elite athlete in top physical condition. If I was told that, I’d say what the fuck are you talking about? That has nothing to do with whether he should be issued the visa or not…….
  - Bozo said, on February 22, 2012 at 12:30 pm
    
    I guess we won’t be seeing any Sumo wresting in the States then.
twinfan1 said, on February 22, 2012 at 11:49 am

He’s nearly 3 years removed from any any international competition. And if he’s out of shape, even more reason it might be denied. But your interest is in bashing Evans and the Giants.
twinfan1 said, on February 22, 2012 at 11:58 am

“However. as Baseball America writer and Latin American prospect guru Ben Badler just tweeted: “There’s no way Angel Villaona’s visa issue is over his conditioning. Someone is hiding something.”
There’s plenty of hope for those who think Evans is lying..
twinfan1 said, on February 22, 2012 at 12:05 pm

Even if there is more to it, so fucking what? Teams deal with bogus visa denials every spring. God, first a Whiteside thread and now this. How about Tim’s back or Wilson’s elbow?
- Flavor said, on February 22, 2012 at 1:32 pm
  
  Because neither of those topics make up a thread. Wilson says he’s on target, Timmy’s back has a little hiccup. I just don’t think people would find either of those stories interesting enough to post on. The BBOTD is another story all together……
snarkk said, on February 22, 2012 at 12:12 pm

Giants are obviously serious about Villalona, to the extent they put him on the 40 man. Maybe that was part of the deal for him to drop his lawsuit against the organization? I doubt we’ll find out what’s really going on with the visa issue from the local beat writers. They can’t even find out that a guy right under their noses every day is hurt for a whole season (Wilson, El Presidente)…
twinfan1 said, on February 22, 2012 at 12:21 pm

If they’re serious about him it’s because they hope to move him…
- snarkk said, on February 22, 2012 at 2:05 pm
  
  Not a bad assumption at all. If he can show by the end of this year he’s still got something, maybe they can snag a middling pitching prospect in exchange…
DJLoo said, on February 22, 2012 at 4:24 pm

He’s perfect for the Raiders.
PawlieKokonuts said, on February 22, 2012 at 5:34 pm

Perhaps they could remake “Desperado” with Angel Villalona, maybe as Steve Buscemi’s sidekick. Would that get him a visa?
Flavor said, on February 22, 2012 at 5:47 pm

I actually feel bad for Villalona. Dude was 16 coming from a dirt poor upbringing and he scores 2 mil–then his whole life falls apart. Everything I read about what his host family said about him was all positive. Now they’re fucking with him at the airport. I hope he finally gets the hell out of there and takes advantage of whatever opportunity he gets if he ever gets back to the States……..
Flavor said, on February 22, 2012 at 6:01 pm

and again, it’s Bobby Evans’ comments that irk me the most about this. Either he thinks the public is stupid and can’t google simple internet searches or he’s too dumb to do these searches himself. If the reason he got was that “Villalona wasn’t considered an elite athlete because he wasn’t in top physical condition”, and you just buy that answer without further inquiry, then you’re either *in* on this delay or you don’t give a crap about getting it resolved.
At the very least don’t feed that bullshit to the public. You say, “this is what they told us but that couldn’t be the case because that’s not one of the qualifiers to secure the visa–we don’t know what’s going on”–that would make Evans and the Giants look a little better in this whole thing……..
twinfan1 said, on February 22, 2012 at 6:19 pm

His physical condition could certainly be cited as why he’s deemed unable “To perform at a specific athletic competition as an athlete, individually or as part of a group or team, at an internationally recognized level of performance”..
but I dunno, maybe he’s smuggling cocaine.
- Flavor said, on February 22, 2012 at 6:48 pm
  
  no way. That’s absurdly subjective. What the hell do the customs guys know about performing at an athletic competition as an athlete? And if the Giants sent in all the other paperwork, don’t you think all of that would be considered? His minor league stats aren’t a part of the paperwork? Or do they go, “Hey, all your paperwork is clearly in order but you look too heavy to make it from 1st to 3rd on a hard hit double in the gap. Application: denied!”
- twinfan1 said, on February 22, 2012 at 7:03 pm
  
  But Craig could be right, I have a tendency to believe management on this crap.
twinfan1 said, on February 22, 2012 at 7:30 pm

I just don’t see a good reason or Evans to lie about it. It’s not like they would be faulted for not knowing all the intricacies of obtaining a visa for an accused murderer..
- Flavor said, on February 22, 2012 at 8:10 pm
  
  Well, we know there was a threatened lawsuit and that’s why he got put on the 40 man roster—the GIants probably acquiesced to that to buy them some time to figure out what to do with him. As you said, I doubt they ever envision him playing for them at the big league level.
  They probably weren’t working too hard to get him out of there. Again, if he’s still there he isn’t here and if you don’t view him as a prospect then he’s just a problem to deal with—and a fairly unique problem at that……..
twinfan1 said, on February 22, 2012 at 8:13 pm

GNight, all.
- Flavor said, on February 22, 2012 at 8:26 pm
  
  Rest up Twinner, once the Giants put the VIllalona mess behind them things are REALLY gonna get interesting!
  🙂
snarkk said, on February 22, 2012 at 9:21 pm

Wilson’s deal is up this year. I don’t hear any extension talk, for obvious reasons. This could very well be his last year with the Gmen — he’s getting expensive to re-sign, showing wear, and Hembree may be throwing aspirins in Spring Traiining. I’m saying it’s probably less than 50-50 that the Beard comes back next year…
- Nipper said, on February 23, 2012 at 1:28 am
  
  Snarkk thinking ahead!