Still Trying to Make Sense of What Happened on 4/9/12
Do you know how many people told me they missed that game? I still haven’t talked to a single person who claims to have seen any of that game—some caught an inning or two on the radio. Kinda reminded me of 1938 a little bit…..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOlgxwyyivs
Let the conspiracy theories commence……..
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Stolen off Baggs’ Blog:
A list of all opponents to throw a shutout in 18 years at Coors Field:
Barry Zito, SF — 2012
Roy Oswalt, HOU — 2008
Andy Ashby, SD — 1999
Dave Mlicki, LAD — 1998
Pedro Martinez, MON — 1997
Tom Glavine, ATL — 1997
Hideo Nomo, LAD — 1996 (no-hitter)
Pat Rapp, FLA — 1995
Tom Glavine, ATL — 1995
Two visiting pitchers this century have thrown complete game shut outs at Coors Field?
T-W-O!?!?!?!?!?!?!……………………2. Let’s say 12 seasons X 81 games–that’s 972 visiting starts this century. Two of 972: .002%
Now, for conspiracy theory #2 of the day: If the Rockies started humidifying the baseball is 2002 then shouldn’t it stand to reason that it would be easier to throw a shutout and not harder? 7 visitors threw shutouts in the first 5 years of the park’s existence and 2 threw shutouts in the 10 years since they started humidifying the balls? Hmmmmmm…….
Also reading Baggs, I got some clarification on the Zito “113-6” stat. It is 4 or more runs scored while he’s in the game. Intuitively, that makes sense, I just haven’t ever had anyone clarify it. He’s 28-2 as a Giant, by the way, when he gets 4+ runs in his starts. Of course, I suspect Timmy, Cain, etc…. have a similar record.
That stat actually says a lot about Zito as a pitcher. He’s the ultimate front runner. When he’s ahead (implied in the stat) he’s got confidence and is spotting his pitches. Of course, there’s a flip side to that sparkling record. As a Giant he is now 44-61 and if he’s 28-2 with 4+….hmmmmm……almost there……….that would make him 16-59 when he DOESN’T get 4+ runs of support……Ouch. He clearly can’t pitch when he’s behind and so often he puts his team in a hole with a blow-up first inning. It’s difficult for teams to score runs when they’re down 4-0 after the first inning. I don’t know why, maybe they get emotionally deflated, maybe they get tired of standing in the field for Zito’s loooooong innings and it effects them later at the plate. Who knows……..
I will never understand what happened on Monday afternoon, and I’ve read all the articles that attempt to explain it with all the quotes from Zito and the Rockies hitters. It’s still too many standard deviations away from 1 (with “1” being Barry Zito on earth and the point of deviation located a few miles north of Mars) for me to apply any of it to a future occurrence. I did learn and accept one thing about that start: Zito is not completely done as a major league pitcher. You can’t throw a complete game shutout in ANY stadium and be finished.
Tom House? He’s finished. At least with any pitchers in the Giant’s clubhouse. I can’t imagine Raggs ever allowing for anymore of that crouching nonsense on his pitching staff………
I’d like to say that I’m worried about Timmy’s start today because his velocity is down and he’s obviously a little out of whack mechanically AND he’s pitching at Coors Field. Well, I don’t worry about Coors Field anymore. I can’t. Barry Zito threw a complete game shutout there on Monday afternoon. I could say that a million times and I’d never believe it…….
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
The stats reflect what I had been hoping for a couple of years, Zito may still have enough to get by as an AL pitcher. If he can get AL run support and has consistently until last year been healthy.
Fingers are crossed that one of these AL big spenders get in a desparate situation and willing to pay half his salary if we are lucky…I got to see a couple of innings Monday, but have yet to watch a full game yet;(
Everyone here has a skewed perspective because we are TOO CLOSE to what happens with the Giants and Zito’s history here. Other people could give a shit . . . How else to explain that 1321 Fantasy League Yahoo teams picked up Zito, only 27 dropped him, and 2 even traded for him. Go figure. I find it hilarious. 🙂
By the by, speaking of the “4 run” thingy . . . “Darvish was the first pitcher in more than 100 years to win his major league debut after allowing at least four runs in the first inning.”
Zito has pitched well in spots for the Giants in the past. Then he has periods when his control goes bad and he can’t get his curve over and then everything fails. It will happen again. Brace yourself.
Blade was the only guy here I saw posit that Zito would be an acceptable #5, based on some saber stats. Whether his last start becomes a “curiosity” or not, no one knows. With Vogs due back soon, which shoves Zito starts further out and the offense scoring runs, puts the AZ series further out of the mind set.
Wonder if the countdown has begun on F. Gonzalez of the Braves?
Thanks for the props (I think 🙂 willieD) . . . If no one knew about the contract – think Vulcan mind meld or similar – we wouldn’t have this prejudice against Zito (which by the way, I do understand). If I blame anyone, I blame the Giants for their stupidity in plopping that contract down in front of him to sign. I still remember reading the Denver Post about the signing and the first thought in my mind was WHAT THE FUCK? DID SOMEONE LOSE THEIR MIND? You know how you can recall certain moments in your life, where you hear about something and you know exactly where you were and what you were doing, e.g., both of the Kennedy’s assasinations, Sept. 11th, etc.? This contract signing is indelibly imprinted on my mind.
well, you were pretty much flying solo on that one. I remember thinking the same thing about SF signing Moises Alou after he hit 30 some odd bombs in Chicago, that no way he’s doing that here. Felt the same way about rowand too–he wasn’t going to put up numbers here like he did in philly.
I do recall Z shutting out the dodgers, maybe 2010, and striking out loney I think 4 times and just making them look silly. I also remember him at 0-8 and being shut down for a turn. No one can say what’s to come, but acceptable #5 would be great boost to the team.
there are no saberstats that support Zito as a fantasy pitcher or even a decent #5. None.
it was blade’s post, xFIP/xERA or something going back over a few years. I said Z shoud do the honourable thing and retire. Btw, as to early firings of mgrs., I recall a truly horrible game at the Stick when the Pads beat the Giants like 17-15 or something in the first week and whomever was in charge was dumped shortly thereafter.
Rockies aren’t scoring runs this year early.Lot’s of batters in both leagues are not hitting,so even a Zito great game is nott shocking early in the season.Hell he started which most people will be floored, 5-0 with a 1.49 ERA to start 2010 thru the start of May.
He pitches his best right now, then blows up when the weather warms up.
Predicting the Giants to Sweep this Series.Zito’s win took alot of.pressure off the team.Now all Hell Breaks Loose on the Rockies!
Well, when Bubbles started 0-8, he came back and went somthing like 10-9 after that. The complete opposite of his collapse in 2010. He just can’t put 2 halfs together.
My theme song for Bubbles when he pitches is this one.
Might be he was actually more mentally relaxed after watching Tim Bum and Matt fail.
But as pointed out, he’s pitched well in spots before. I saw the entire game and control WAS the key. Rocky hitters helped him out being aggressive. And some luck of course. But he was throwing the curve for strikes when he got behind.
But his margin for error remains very thin. Sat he could give up 7 in 1 1/3.
It’s too early to use the word “failure” to any Giants play. There’s alway losses even in the best of times but that is being normal not failing.
Sage advice, Nippercious.
I only saw bit and pieces of the game while at work. In fact, I purposely watched as little of Zito as possible so as not to jinx him. It must have worked. I was just glad to see one of our big-money pitchers live up to his contract this year. Timmy has a tough act to follow tonight, kind of like the comedian who has to follow Frank Sinatra. OK, the Sinatra reference may be pushing it a bit. And kudos to Blade, who did indeed defend Zito during spring training.
Any thoughts on today’s lineup? i think I’d go:
Blanco CF
Melky LF
Sandavol 3b
Posey C
Belt 1B
Nate RF
Crawford SS
Burress 2B
Timmyu
Bochy did say he wants to give Nate a start at Coors. And tomorrow it’s Moyer. But I expect to see Pagan, not Blanco.
You’re probably right about Pagan.
A couple of names jump out at me on that Coors list. First is Pat Rapp. After his last brief stint with the Giants, I can’t imagine him throwing a shutout anywhere, much less Coors. In one of my last visits to the ‘Stick in ’97 before moving back east, Rapp started an August game vs. the Reds. Deion Sanders led off the game with a HR, the Reds scored 4 in the 1st and won easily. Thank you, Pat, for making the long drive back to Sacto even longer.
The other is Dave Mlicki, who is fondly remembered by Mets fans for throwing a complete-game shutout in the first Mets-Yanks interleague game in ’97 at Yankee Stadium.
Macdog, you still in Sacto? that is where I currently reside. Watt and Hwy 50.
Irish, no, I’ve been back in Jersey since ’97. I was in Rio Linda in ’96-97. Now that was an interesting place to live.
Dog, whereabouts in jersey? I lived in Wyckoff and Montclair. Hated almost every minute of it.
E, I’m near the Shore, south of Toms River, exit 78 or 80 off the Parkway, not a bad place at all. You were a bit north, can’t blame you, I wouldn’t want to be up there either.
Wyckoff wasn’t too bad. We moved back here then had to move back which really sucked. hated montclair.
I also have a high school buddy who lives in Rio Linda.
Mac and EW, Rio Linda?? really, ha ha Rush Limbaugh use to make fun of that place all the time. maybe still does!!
Irish, another Rio Linda claim to fame I remember was that Clinton visited that ice cream stand sometime in the mid-90s.
as usual, Krukow was all over the give Zito love, saying he is the ultimate team player yada yada yada. Whatever!! He even brought up the comparison of A Smith and Zito. All I know is that Zito gave the Giants what they needed, a win. As far as I am concerned he was just doing his job, and doing it right for a change. I am not saying he has to throw a shut out every game but he should pitch well enough to win, each and everytime out there. He has not done that for the past 6 years, so while it is nice to get the win, he needs to show he can keep the Giants in the game consistantly.
Timmy redeems himself today!!
Ha ha BF, I know the BBOTD is on hold, but this is just to funny. there is a pic but I am not sure how to get it out here. over on MSN
Scion pulls sleazy ad starring donut-eating babes in bikinis
Well, Kat, when Bubbles started 0-8, he came back and went somthing like 10-9 after that. 2009 was similar, but he sucked in both halves. The complete opposite of his collapse in 2010. He just can’t put 2 halfs together.
My theme song for Bubbles when he pitches is this one.
nice one Chuck. I hadn’t heard that since college I think.
Yeah, not a big country music fan, but this song cracks me up every time I hear it. First time I heard is was in a dive bar out near the Wagon Wheel in Carmel Valley.
Yeah, that is the one thing I like about country, their songs tell it like it is.
Here ya go Kevin . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfhvCagUE-o&feature=player_embedded
Thanks Chuck.
Props To Blade? Well, yes, for a lot of things.But because Zito pitched one good game. Sorry, The Prop Man says: “No props for you!!@!
Trust me, it’s still the right thing! Feed him to the Sharks!
timing is everything. Might not be a bad time for Nate to go all fred lewis on coors.
Yeah, visiting the Twiight Zone 2 games in a row . . .
Latino actors have been known to lie about their age to casting directors….
The media sells sex and calories. Then diet plans to combat the result. Or pill plans. Exercise discs come too and exercise machines. Then liquor ads and more beer ads………to get more calories…..etc. etc. etc.
Interesting a “Soft Tosser ” like Glavine th
threw 2 Shutouts at Coors.Same kind of pitcher as Zito,but.with much.better control.
An all home-grown Giants outfield with power at the corners and defense+speed up the middle may not be that far away if some current trends continue. Can’t recall if it was for sure two years ago, but TF was very high on the potential of Roger Kieshnick at the time. Seems the dude faded a bit in the Eastern League, as so many hitters do, but has come on like gangbusters lately. The other big power guy who has been doing very well lately is Chris Dominguez. He seems to be turning into a regular masher.
From the looks of things both of these power corner outfielders (Dominguez also has plenty of corner infield background) could be good to go as soon as a long cup of coffee come September. Gary Brown may or may not be ready for The Show by next Spring. More likely Spring of ’14, judging from current production. AND we ought not lose sight of Francisco Peguero in the O.F. mix either. He’s already at Fresno.
Around the horn things look like they’re shaping up as well. Catching talent is piling up like 757’s over O’Hare. The list must even include such relative unknowns as Johnny Monell and Alex Burg. Hell, there must be at least five talented young catchers in the mid to upper reaches of the pipeline. Second Base: Panik. SS: Crawford looking better all the time may have that critical position sealed for years to come. Third: Now Connor Gillaspie is raking AAA pitching ~ though he did little in ST. Of course SF already has a major threat at the hot corner ~ if he can keep his ingestion of bamboo shoots at a reasonable roar.
All home-grown greenery, gang. In a weird turn of events the light sauce now appears to be starting pitching in the pipeline as the organization felt a need to start drafting position players. Some promise in the lower minors, but nothing close to a TOR starter in AA or AAA. The system does appear to be bursting with bullpen help, however.
Overall, we appear to be witnessing heightened levels of productivity in SF’s farm system, with the exception being SP’s. Interestingly, it is precisely in this category, as many posters have noted over the months, where #24 Willie Mays Plaza looms as a very desirable re-lo for F.A. top-line starters. No need for major panic at present, though, as Cain is home for good; Madison is sure to come around; Timmy must still have something in the tank, or thinks he does ~ otherwise he would have opted for the security of the long contract; Vogelsong threw 6 strong for Fresno and will pitch in The Show again on Sunday and even Zito has proven that he cannot always be counted on to be a Zippo.
Of course with their win over the Padres last night, the Snakes moved to 3.5 games up on SF in the standings. But the Giants have 158 more games to do something about that gap.
Opening day has yet to occur at SF. Too early to sweat.
Sabean was Interviewed on Chron Live last night and mentioned Cabrerra and future in the same sentence. Probably a longshot, but they are leaving the door open.
‘Cabrera’
Sorry St, but which “Cabrerra” (last I checked, there’s like a dozen of them)? Thanks . . .
Ah, but there’s only one Melky. 😉
For whatever reason, my brain was thinking trade for the one in Cleveland (abba dabba or something like that). 😉
I’ll take Miguel Cabera.
The best explanation I have heard for Zito’s success at Coors has to do with the conjecture that, in thinner air, lower pitch velocities lose less late movement than higher ones. So Zito, whose name might just as well be a shorthand for “low velocity,” gets good movement that harder throwers don’t get, plus when he “humps it up” to the low 80’s his pitch movement changes more than a harder thrower. A guy whose full speeds/off speeds are 90s/80s gets no movement benefits, because at those speeds all the pitches are relatively flat.
The opposite effect might be happening at sea level, with Zito’s pitches of all speeds showing similar movement at Pac Bell, but harder throwers getting a large movement differential with speed changes.
Well, he pitches even better( career) aganst them here. There’s no explanation.
Dominquez move to the OF,probably the right call. He has “hands of stone” as a 3B.He still a free swinger,seldom walks,but the hitting coach isworking with him to be more selective and use all fields cause he has awesome power to all fields he’s just.been to pull happy.
I remember when Roberto Duran was around and being called “hands of stone” was a good thing.
manos de piedra. boy did i love seeing him get his comeuppance. srl beat him to a pulp in montreal while standing right in front of him. when he started moving in NO, the bully knew he was going to get the shit kicked out of him and this time there wasn’t anything he was going to be able to do about it. so, as bullies do, he quit. perfect.
Dominquez is at an age where he needs to be doing more than hitting well, he needs to be destroying pitching at the levels he’s at, power wise. He’s not done that any level. He needs to “leave earth” big time before the season is over or you can forget about him.
Nate gets a shot, but still no Belt. Matters not. Haircut Boy best have his shit together or the lineup is meaningless.
CF Pagan, LF Cabrera, 3B Sandoval, C Posey 1B Huff, RF Nate, SS Crawford, 2B Burriss, P Lincecum
Always thought Huff would regain first base. I bet they send Belt down to Fresno for a bit.
that’s three days off in a row for Belt. Hard to get better parked on the bench.
KNBR let Ralph Barbiari go!! now if they’d get rid of the complete loser Gary Radnich and the dumb guy from the morning show Paul Mac I might listen more.
Did they cite a reason for getting rid of Mr. Dull Razor?
GM says it was a “management decision”.
You mean the 10,000 call a day for the past 8 years to get rid of Barbieri finally paid off?
Yay!
No more “Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly”?. I was wondering why Ted Robinson yesterday said he was filling in for Tom Tolbert only.
KNBR is tired and old. Ratings must be tanking.
Posey has Shingles, per Comcast-Baggs, hearing on KNBR that Tim has cut his hair??
I got in the car right at 3pm and Tolbert was literally just starting the show—he gets into the news and all of a sudden he can’t talk, he’s clearing his throat, you can hear him sobbing into the mike—I figured they would cut to commercial but no—this went on for a good 2–2.5 minutes where he can’t talk, though he’s trying to. Lots of dead air except for his weeping in the background.
I’ll tell ya, it was awkward……….
Finally! What took them so long?
You guys don’t know what bad sports radio is, KHTK 1140 in Sacramento, ugh!! I will take any of the guys on KNBR over what I have here in Sacramento!! The morning show in 1140 is a complete and utter joke.
Sac town is joke town.
You don’t know how true that is, I mean Arnold lived/worked here
ESPN Mike and Mike is the other sports talk in the morning. But my iphone can get ESPN “The Herd”. so thank full for that
Empty headed morning show is stealing from the public. Pure losers all the way! Light hearted blah blah blah is what people want and man do they get it.
refering to KNBR morning show.
But I know you’re a big fan of the “Bruce Bochy Show” on the KNBR pregame.
That’s riveting radio right there.
Does it interfere with “Dr. Dave”, Denny?
Might be a couple of rain delays here . . . even tornados have been reported.
Arnold the pig, Irish?
“Given that the Giants were already monitoring one Posey Health Issue, I wouldn’t be surprised if we see Eli Whiteside in San Francisco this weekend.”
From Pavlovic, just some extra bitch material if needed..
Don’t even mention a Whitey sighting yet Twin.Geez im just getting over Rowand,Cabera,Tejada,Wellenmeyer ferchrissakes.But your right if this shingle thang last long El Presidente is next one up.
Hey I wonder if Posey should go to Shingle Springs CA for his medicine.
Good ribs place there! They created the Gold Cadillac there.
WE WANT ZITO! WE WANT ZITO! WE WANT ZITO!
Ok, ok, bad joke . . .lqtm. 😉
Timmy’s ERA now stands at 9.95. He should go pitch for the Red Sox.
Or my fantasy team. Take your pick. He’d fit right in on either…
Forget Zito watching Moyer, maybe Timmy needs to watch Zito…..
At least the D-Backs finally lost.
Criminy. Timmy’s leaving fat ones up there. 50 pitches already in the 3rd . . .
Wow . . . Fowler was batting under .100
Pathetic.
Yikes. Shut it Kruk. This shit’s on Timmy.
Oh sorry, this is all Hector’s fault.
90 MPH fast ball out of the zone. Velocity isn’t there.
Some ugly looking baseball in Rocky World tonight.Pull Timmeh Now.
Problem is his 90MPH fastballs in the zone- right down the middle
That’s not what they’re hitting. 7 hits off of low to mid-80’s sliders
If timmy is this easy to rattle just from having to pitch to a new catcher he needs to fucking man-up. He’s a 2-time CY winner, who the catcher is shouldn’t be an issue.
6 of the hits are on that slider he supposedly was ditching ( as per MLB.COM Gameday..) uh, 7..
Krukow: Shut the fuck up! Blaming Hector now. What a piece of shit.
Lincecum out of here after 2 and a third. Who knew?
Zito’s CG just became even bigger
Maybe Timmy should’ve gotten an extended spring training start.
At this rate, Timmy will be crouching his next start.
He hit 93 two or three times in the first, nothing over 91 since. You have a conditioning or arm problem if you’re losing 2 MPH ater one inning.
not necessarily. Of course, it could be that. But there has been a lot of talk about his mechanics and it’s certainly easy to lose your arm slot or fuck up something in your delivery in-game…….
Mike, I have the Rockies feed and they showed a graphic where his AVERAGE fastball for his first CY year was 94.2 MPH and he threw it 62% of the time . . . Fast forward to last season, he throws it about 52% of the time and it’s a lot slower as you, myself, and others have noted.
come on, his first CY was 4+ seasons ago. Tim has said he’s not the same pitcher he was when he came into the league when he just tried to blow everyone away.
I’m concerned about his velocity too, especially with the news that he didn’t throw any sliders in ST to *save his arm* or whatever excuse they gave.
BUt I’m also not sweatin’ it that he isn’t throwing his fastball as hard as he can the way he did when he was a young, dumb kid.
He was throwing fastballs 93 in the first inning…….
Also, his last three starts going back to last year have been the shits . . . In his last Sept. start against Arizona last year, he gave up 5 runs in 5 innings.
Remember that DP ball induced by Otero,and you can win $50.00 tommorrow on KNBR your Sports Leader.
That HR should land Nate back on the bench for tomorrow…
Keep Crawford in the 7-hole like I suggested a few days ago. He likes it.
That was our first back-to-back HRs since Keppinger and Pablo did it last yr on Aug. 31.
I wonder if Keppinger was batting cleanup that day?
Yeah, 4 years ago . . . Good point and another reason why I am grateful that he insisted upon a 7 (or was it an 8) year contract at 200 zillion a year or whatever ridiculous number his agent put out there. Thank God the Giants didn’t agree.
oh Yeah, Let it roll!
WOO HOO . . . Giants hitting might bail out Lincecum. What a fucking Bizarro World this is turning out to be.
No lie, it’d be “starry night-ish” to come back and win this, but honestly you have to be concerned about Timmy.
Otero’s huge DP ball, is the key in their comeback.
This is classic! Mythic!
Epic comeback.
Well, Timmy doesn’t get the loss. He can thank his catcher in part.
How about them Giants Baby!!!!
Predicted a Sweep and it will happen!
lqtm . . . You sure did Kat 😉
Well, as pointed out, it was the slider they were destroying.,
But we’d been hitting Guthrie hard… you know, if Belt doesn’t hit and Hector does, Buster may get out the squat sooner than anticipated…
quick, someone, write a book about this [insert gay smileyface]
Loving it!! Speed helps.
You guys should hear the Rockies announcers here . . . They are beside themselves. Unfrickinbelievable!
White Shark….
great slide by The White Shark, too……..
well, how about that, as Mel Allen would say