Kicking the Tires…
That was an excellent thread by Dennis yesterday about second favorite teams. There were a lot of interesting comments and hate for the Yankees. And I caught a small amount of grief from Flavor for even mentioning a small fondness for that team across the bay that wears those gay-assed white shoes! All good stuff from what I saw of the comments (which was limited).
Today I want to throw out two topics for discussion. And my apologies if you guys beat these like a dead horse yesterday. Speaking of horses, I was out of pocket most of yesterday with the girlfriend taking her horse for a follow-up appointment (resulted in good news for the horse’s future), and didn’t have much time to visit the Flap (so again…not sure to what detail you may have covered these topics).
Anyway…back to the two topics for discussion. First, did the hated Bums really make that great of an acquisition yesterday in Hanley Ramirez? Sure, he was the 2009 batting champ, averages 25 bombs a year over his career, and can play some tough short and 3rd (that and he is only 28 years old). On the flip-side, he was hurt for a decent chunk of last year (played in 92 games), hit .243 with an OPS of only .712 (10 dingers and 45 RBIs). This year? He is hitting only .246 with an OPS of .749. To top it all off, the Bums take on the remaining salary of approximately 6 million this year, and 15.5 and 16 for the next two. And to land HanRam, they gave up two young pitchers. Nathan Eovaldi has appeared in 20 major league games with 16 starts over two years (3.96 ERA/1.440 WHIP). The other guy, Scott McGough is a reliever with 5 years of minor league experience. His current ERA is 3.99 but he has a 10.45 ERA over his last 10 games). So, the question is when you look at all the details (performance, both past and present, and the coin involved) was it really a good deal?
Secondly, what should our beloved Giants do (if anything)? I know we have kicked the tires on this a lot. If they are going to make a trade, the deadline quickly approaches. Many of you have thrown out your takes on what is most important for the Giants to remain competitive, and more importantly, to go deep in the post-season. There have been the big “pie in the sky” proposals such as G-Head made a few days ago (the most significant piece being the acquisition of Willingham). I did not comment on that one much, but it had problems in that Huff (and possibly Freddy Sanchez) were parts of the proposal.
What do you see as the most glaring need? I think we need to shore up the bench. With the loss of Hector and Whitey filling-in, that hurt (hopefully Sanchez is back soon). And we all know Manny Burriss (probably more than we want to). There have been a few times of late where he and (pencil in any other bench player’s name) have come up where a key knock ties the game or puts the Giants ahead, with the result being another frustrating inning of no hit with RISP, and a loss.
And if the Giants do decide to make some moves, do they go big (and trade their few quality prospects such as Gary Brown)? I think not. I believe they need a RH bat that has some power, and who can play the corners, and possibly some OF (at this point, the corner IF seems the more glaring need). Outside of that, I think the bullpen could possibly stand a minor tune-up. I still get nervous at times when Hensley takes the hill, and am not entirely sold on Kontos.
Anyway, let me know your thoughts on Ramirez, and what do our Giants need to do to keep their grip on the NL West lead, and help ensure they can be competitive in the post-season. Flap Away!
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Not sure if you guys saw it…but Eric Surkamp is having (had?) Tommy John surgery. He was considered one of the Giants top pitching prospects, so certainly a piece that really cannot figure much in trade discussions.
Glad to hear Dani is good homeboy. As far as HanRam, I’m not too concerned about him; just like I wasn’t too concerned about whenn the Bums signed Red Ass Kevin Brown in 1999, or when they got Jason Schmidt, or Kent for that matter. The fact is, the Giants need to worry about themselves. Sabes let the Dodgers blink first, so now he can turn his attention to picking up a player or two, but it will be very difficult if everyone wants Gary Brown. But hey, if you want to win…
Please no more unproductive guys in their 30’s. The Giants over the years have made it a bad habit to grab over the hill vets. Yeah it worked in 2010 but it seldom works. Huff is the latest example in a long line of guys who just cannot play well in their advanced baseball age.
Yeah, other than the times they made the playoffs, and the time they won the World Series, it doesn’t work.
Pipe down Zumie!
BEEP
Nice Job Chi…As far as Surkamp goes,just have to still wonder about the Giants medical staff again,their like hockey teams,always saying lower body issue,when it’s really a shoulder or concussion instead.Giants.were always saying I believe it was a hand issue or a nerve issue.Now it’s TJ? Noah Lowry all over again IMO.
Good point, Kat…and I had not thought about the parallel between this and Noah. And was LQTM on your reference to how hockey releases info on injuries.
What I read about Surkamp’s injury was that it was an elbow injury. Where are you seeing that they claimed it was anything else? Baggarly reported it as an elbow injury, the Chronicle reported it as an elbow injury, everyone reported it as an elbow injury.
Twin – there were a couple of places that had his injury listed as a hand injury. Here are a couple about which I was aware:
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/#list=sf
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/player/eric-surkamp/injuries/1300984?q=eric-surkamp
I don’t know how Hanley will do with the Dodgers, overall, but he got off to a real good start for them last night. A triple, a single, and a walk. Although, it was kind of weird how he didn’t try to steal late in the game, tie score, after he got the walk. The Cardinal broadcasters were pretty mystified by that.
One game…..they’re going to the WS! LOL
Hanley is due $15 mill a year for two years, and his last year and a half he’s around .750 OPS. He doesn’t steal bases anymore and probably winds up in LF for LA since he is no longer a very good IF on left side. A corner OF with a .750 OPS sounds like Nate, and I ain’t giving him $15 freaking mill.
Eovaldi was an LA top prospect as of ST, and has started for them as a replacement for Lilly. It’s pretty rare for a contender to ship out an SP, even if he is only a #5, in a deal. Only complaint you could make about Marlins is that they sold low.
Which brings me back to Nate. Instead of playing him every day, the Giants should trade him now when his value is at its absolute highest. In other words before he goes 4 for 40 and hurts himself like he has every year. so the only question is who do you want in return: Trout or Haren? Cano or Texeira? McCutchen or Hanrahan?
The cave is agasp!
Gasp!
Go Willie D you’re on a roll!
Yeah, it’s the bench. If they don’t do anything, then Pill is the answer?
Han Ram? Shit. He could end up helping the Dogs like Burrell did for the Giants, or he could end up hurting them like Beltran did for us. His upside is he’s younger. They took a bath to get him (that’s a shitload of salary to take on), but they are doing what they can now. The Giants are in the unenviable position of having little to offer in trade, and not too many guys out there who fit their needs. Willingham would be great, but he would cost Gary Brown. Any deal that would hopefully make an impact would cost them Brown.
Chuck – I’m not convinced that there isn’t a RH bat out there who could help but will also cost the team Brown. I am envisioning someone who is not necessarily a starter, and again, who can play some IF and possibly OF. I am thinking along the lines of a Ross or Burrell in 2010. Will Sabes be able to find something of that nature? Time will tell, but one thing is for sure, July 31st is creeping up quickly.
They could have just gotten Willingham last off season in the FA market. He wanted to stay in Oakland, so why not just come across the bridge? I said back then they should have gotten him for pop, they knew they were short on pop, of should have known. Now, to get him it costs prospects and/or players plus the contract. Dumb…
Super dumb!
His contract is actually quite reasonable at 7 mil per through 2014. His 2014 salary goes up by a mil if he has 525 plate appearances in 2013…still relatively cheap for what he could bring to the table.
Since it seems Ramirez wil be replacing Uribe mostly, even at Hanley’s subpar numbers this year, he’s a huge upgrade. Not something to be sneered at. Timmy’s outing last night does make Sabean’s decisons on what to do at the deadline trickier.
Interesting.
I agree Twin. I am not saying that Ramirez isn’t an upgrade…more did they overpay for what they got. I suppose in the grand scheme of things, we won’t know until the end of the year, and possibly until we see how he performs (or doesn’t) over the next couple of years. But, on the surface, I would say that it appears that they potentially overpaid for what they got. More to come.
And I agree…Tim can’t be a non-issue for Sabes. He just cannot crank out a string of quality starts. We all know that Zito could go south at any time. That puts a lot of pressure on the other three starters. Interesting, indeed.
Nate’s value is it’s absolute highest? compared to what? The ground?
If they get a grade B prospect or 2, they’d be happy with that.
(See Ray Ray for Darren Ford)
The Nate hater speaks!
Chuck is right! BLEEP!
The cult lives on.
So, Nate for McCutcheon works for you, Bergs?
Nate for McCutcheon would work for me. Is there something you know that I don’t? Something tells me the Pirates would not go for that.
I think getting Pablo and Hector back is what we need. And then stay healthy. In September I would bring up Brown, Kieschnick and Pill. I would actually bring up Pill now for a RH power bat. Who goes down? Belt, until September. I do like how Belt is staying back on the ball the last couple of days but I think he needs more consistent playing time for a few weeks.
I think I fixed my emal problem last night. I’m not sure what I did, but it seemed to have worked!
Send him some spam guys!
It is feeling a bit Nippy around here!
Since it isn’t my money they are spending, I think the Dodgers helped themselves. I wouldn’t have spent that much for a .247 hitter.
Funny, that’s what Nate is batting. What do the Giants get for him in a trade, Bergs?
Uh, but “historically” who has produced more? Nate or HanRam?
Nate is not costing 15 mil. Did you not notice that?
Dodgers will be turning into Yanks of Socal in coming years. This new ownership is going to be throwing dough around like Amici’s. Get used to it. And, I’m not swallowing the kool aid that adding HanRam is no big deal. He’s got 14 dingers, that ain’t blowing smoke, and would lead our sorry azz power packin’ club. I think it IS a big deal and when they get Dempster, it’s on. Going to the game yesterday and seeing that BS lineup flail against a hack like Marquis convinced me even more that this bench is friggin atrocious. Sabes needs to get three new bodies in here that actually can hit a baseball. Even the Snarkkettes were unimpressed. BTW, the sooner Eli is enjoying the warm climes of Fresno, the better. His swing is, let’s say, not looking optimal…
Eli comes in handy. He’s no hitter but you guys like pitchers coming to bat so suffer in silence. NL ball baby!
If you are a player the dogers cash could be a good thing.
Just my opinion, but I think we got insurance for a starting pitching spot with a Penny.
The thought mortifies me.
The cave will welcome Penny for a cold one, and we will cold cock him if he tries to start.
I’m with you. I saw him yesterday. He’s so big Panda could hide in one pant leg, and walks like Herman Munster. OK, in a pinch and the right matchups, but no friggin’ way can he start other than on an emergency basis. I’m imagining him in a start against Cincy. TKO in the 4th…
I think finding a RH bat off the bench is going to have to be an outfielder. I also think Sabes gambles that a good target will cost less at the deadline. Adding help for the BP may be an easier call. A bust out deal for a starter seems distant.
Hanley is an after thought to me. The dogers have money and have given up a talent. best wishes.
I still like Victorino as a PH bench guy, but I feel he would want to be an everyday player, but again, there is some shufflings available. On the down side he is having a poor year, but that could keep the price low.
Kieschnick hasn’t played in almost 2 months, Berger. I can see Pill as a last gasp try for a power bat OFF THE BENCH if they can’t trade for one but not as a regular. And while they may trade Nate, I’ll note again that they may need him next year. Melky or Pagan returning is very iffy.
Pagan isn’t coming back. I’ll bet somebody else’s house on that…
I’ll agree to that.
Pill is not an answer. He’s less consistent than Belt.
He hasn’t really had a chance to prove that, Chuck. Maybe he’ll surprise us…
Seriously? He’s 28. He played up here for 2 months, and did very little.
Unless there’s some sort of Andres torres epiphany, and that’s highly douobtful, we aren’t going to get a lot out of Pill.
That’s why I used the word “surprise”, Chucky.
There’s ‘surprise’ and there’s ‘miracle on ice’ surprise. Or ‘I won the lottery’ surprise . . .
Loo wants a surprise!
Depends on the pill.
Renteria went from vastly over paid to worth a hundred million with one swing. The Dodgers are obviously going for it all and to pretend that Ramirez isn’t a huge step in that direction is absurd. Sabes doesn’t have to counter with a huge move of his own but it does make some upgrading important. With Lincecum a mystery and Zito finishing well only a hope, they need an arm, and they need the RH bat even if it’s bench bat. Another utility infilder would be nice as well. It’s tiny market, though, with so many teams in it due to the second WC.
so many needs…..so little time….
They either wait for some teams to start dumping salary, or they trade. Since we are all epically talented at guessing what they do, it could be anything. If they sign a couple of table scraps and the month of August doesn’t go good, what they do in September won’t matter.
I wonder if Vogie could be in play. I’m not saying it’s a good idea, but with the Dogs going balls to the wall (especially if they get Dempster or Greinke), they are forcing Sabean’s hand.
As long as Nicole stays…
How can you trade Vogy? Then who’s the #3?…
All I’m saying is their only bargaining chips are pitchers. My point is, standing (relatively) pat while the Dodgers upgrade their lineup and rotation could very well cost them the playoffs.
*gulp* . . . Zits.
OK, trade Vogy so Zitoid and Tim move up a notch. They still need another starter to round out the 5. Who’s that, Hacker?…
There’s no way they’re *counting* on Tim or Barry. Taking any of the other three out of the rotation is insanity. They’d be better off doing nothing if that was the price.
What they need is being greatly exaggerated. There’s nothing they need that would require trading one of their top three starters.
I agree with TF.
Only bargaining chips pitchers? Uh, I think there are a number of teams that would sit down to the table if Gary Brown was in the mix. And with the questions around Tim, and the unknowns around how Zito will perform down the stretch, no way in hell they think about trading a starter. Just my opinion…don’t see it happening.
Again though, the only thing this team has to offer in trade is pitching. If there IS a trade, it’ll likely involve a starter. Sabes may stand pat or get a couple lower tier guys, and hope, but it’s risky when/if LA bolsters their pitching staff AND upgrades their lineup.
The conundrum the Giants find themselves in now emphasizes my point about them constantly drafting pitching heavy, like this last draft. It is the exactly wrong direction. They can BUY pitching. They can’t BUY hitting, because good hitters don’t want to come here. You weigh more heavily every draft for hitting and position players to suit this park AND you go hitting heavy in the international player derby. Draft pitching strategically, and buy more in FAs when you need it. Where are all the pitchers in the system now that supposedly they should be able to use to trade for hitting? Nowhere, that’s where, except maybe in the low minors. You can’t get much for that. Stockpiling pitching to cherry pick the best for SF and trade the rest is supposedly the grand plan, but here we are at trade deadline and that plan is in tatters…
Since Vogy is what we would be looking for in a trade, why would we trade him? Seems illogical.
It’s completely illogical. And they wouldn’t even get a star for him.
There is zero way they’re trading a starting pitcher. They NEED a starting pitcher… on the roster, the commodities are Belt and Nate,in the minors Brown, Joseph, Bochy, Panik, Susac, Crick, 3 or 4 more.
IMO.
“zero way”
Then it looks like they stand pat. Then Pill is the RH ‘power’ off the bench.
With Sanchez and Panda healthy, that looks like a good option.
Panda very well may be DLed. What then?
About 10 more days of waiting.
I was curious how Zach Wheeler is doing.
Looks like he got a little roughed up in his latest game in AA. 5 earned runs in 4 innings, but still had 5 strikeouts. His season numbers are still looking good, but not necessarily “lights out” for AA.
(L, 9-6) 4.0 10 6 5 0 5 0 3.29
The rare 10 hits, no walks game.
TF- Kieschnick is hurt again? What is it this time?
Shoulder
That happened a couple of months ago…I believe he ran into the OF wall making a play on a fly ball.
Terrific piece this morning, Chi. As for Hanley, he’s going to help the Dodgers. The question is how much? He certainly can’t hurt with what the production they were getting. And even if Ramirez were to fall off the face of the Earth tomorrow, it still wouldn’t be a bad trade for what they had to give up. That’s equally as aggravating.
As for our club? I dunno think Sabean will counter with a big move of his own nor should he. He’ll go p/u one or two arms to shore up the pen. As for a bat? I’d go scour the nightclubs and see if Pat the Bat was still upright. Not much out there worth a shit that wouldn’t cost us a pretty penny.
BTW, does your girlfriend really own a horse? I thought that might have been an euphemism for something more personal. Either way, good to know that her “animal” is feeling better. You’ll be getting back on the horse in form or another in no time. 😀
Hey Denny – yep, she really owns a horse (half arab/half quarter – palomino – gorgeous horse). He’s been having some issues (she does dressage and trail riding) where he doesn’t want to collect (experiences pain). Looks like he has some issues with his suspensory ligaments…and she will be having some stem cell treatment (read expensive) done on him. The good is that they get about 90% success rate on this treatment.
I’m not even advocating trading a starter, just that it is their only position of strength with which to trade from.
They are going to table scraps in other words. Yeah, it worked in 2010 with Burrell and Ross, but it has failed a lot as well. Hello Ryan Garko . . .
The question is whether Sabes would go “blockbuster” or not this season. He has done it in the past, but not so much in the recent past. Beltran for Wheeler was moderate blockbuster, and it didn’t work out. It doesn’t seem Sabes would take a big chance two years in a row. But obviously something needs to happen of some sort. The big prize in the minors is Brown, obviously, and they just can’t trade him.
By “blockbuster,” I was just talking about trades, and not about signing off the waiver wire, which could happen.
Again…they have Brown who is a top prospect, and also a couple of highly regarded catching prospects. So, a SP is really not their only position of strenght. I don’t see them making a huge trade that entails trading a starter or a top prospect. If they did, it would probably be a catching prospect, and not Brown. Just my guess.
The LOOGY the Dodgers got in the Marlin trade looked pretty good last night. Classic LOOGY. A side-armin’ dude.
I think everyone needs to calm down a little here, the Giants are in first place. Despite Tim and his pitching problems, despite Pablo being on the DL for the second time this year. and then to lose Hector to the DL. Did anyone truely worry about seeing Whitey behind the plate at the beginning of the year. Not I!! I thought he would live in oblivion for the season. Granted you don’t wait for the wheels to fall off to do something, but you just don’t go out and do just anything in hopes it will help a team that is already in 1st place.
Was Pablo DLed?
I haven’t seen that. Last word I saw is that a decision will be made tomorrow.
“The Giants have deferred a decision regarding Pablo Sandoval’s immediate future until Friday, hoping that two days of intensive treatment can heal the third baseman’s strained left hamstring enough to help him avoid the disabled list.
Thursday’s scheduled off-day prolongs the Giants’ evaluation period for Sandoval, who hurt himself Tuesday night while stretching for a throw as he played first base. Sandoval underwent an MRI Wednesday that confirmed his injury.
Sandoval admitted, “I’m just trying to hang in there,” adding that his hamstring was “still a little sore.” But he estimated his chances of missing only a few games and skirting the DL as “100 percent.”
Nevertheless, Giants manager Bruce Bochy said, “You do have to be careful with these hamstrings. You don’t want any setbacks, obviously. At the same time, if he makes a lot of improvement over the next two days and looks like he could be a week, then we could keep him off the DL possibly. But that call will made Friday.”
Just DL him retro to the injury and be done with it. They need bodies in here to help. Get somebody up from Fresno and let the leg heal…
Exactly what I read – decision on Friday, based on a large part by very agressive treatment yesterday and today.
I think the question is how much Sabean has to do, I don’t see anyway he can afford to do nothing.
Chuck, you’re way off on this one.
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Gammons loves Wheeler – thinks the trade will go down as historically bad for the Giants…
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Mets unveil Matt Harvey later for his ML debut vs. AZ. Giants face him next week if you want to do little scouting….
Chuck, if they trade a starting pitcher, I’ll upgrade your computer to one that works 😉
LMAO…
Weatherproof games: A’s-Blue Jays, Pirates-Astros, Nationals-Brewers, Mets-Diamondbacks and Royals-Mariners
Three MLB games are to be played in roofless stadiums Thursday, and all three forecasts won’t make players or fans feel too comfortable.
Rays-Orioles (12:35 p.m. ET): Mostly sunny, 93 degrees (feels like 100), 9 mph winds
Dodgers-Cardinals (1:45 p.m.): Partly cloudy, 96 degrees (feels like 109), 8 mph winds, thunderstorms expected to arrive around 3 p.m. but won’t last long
Tigers-Indians (7:05 p.m.): Cloudy, 79 degrees, 11 mph winds, thunderstorms throughout the night put this game in serious jeopardy of postponement. Consequently, only Flap league members and FL players need be concerned . . . unless of course, you are a closet Indians (I am) or Tigers fan.
“And now for sports. Here’s a partial score: Oakland 4 . . . “
The Panda leg thing could happen to anybody, but emphasizes the issue with his weight and conditioning. They must get a handle on his physical conditioning. He can’t keep carrying that amount of weight into his late 20s and early 30s. It will take a toll on his availability…
He was playing out of position and utilized that “split” whereas a real first baseman would have made a very routine stretch and/or scoop. As they may find out in a bad way with Buster, just throwing a guy out there because it’s an “easy” position is poor thinking.
Yeah, Belt or even Huff would not have gone Mary Lou Retton there. It helps on the D side to have a 1bman well over 6 feet tall…
I count 3 people here – Dennis, Twin, Snarkk – who have accurately portrayed the HanRam deal as a significant upgrade. Count me as thinking the same thing. Couple that with the Bums getting a good middle relief pitcher in Choate, they did very well for themselves, without giving up very much. How much the Dodgers are paying him doesn’t matter insofar as it factoring into the equation of whether or not he is an upgrade . . . If you think it is, then see the Yankees.
WillieD, what am I missing in regard to your statement, “He doesn’t steal bases anymore . . .”
He has 14 stolen bases so far this season. When isn’t 14 stolen bases not stealing bases anymore????
Steve – I’m not disagreeing with him being an upgrade (see my 9:28 post), but question whether or not they overpaid for him. They committed a lot of coin (they have a lot to throw around), and Eovaldi is a top prospect. As I mentioned, I don’t think we can truly evaluate this on until at least later in the year, and possibly into next year (to see what Ramirez and Eovaldi do). But on the surface, I think they may have overpaid. Just my opinion.
Yes, I see your point Chi. My point is that the money they paid doesn’t figure into whether or not these two additions – Ramirez and Choate – will improve the Bums significantly. The only determining factor of whether it was worth it, is if they make the playoffs . . . If they don’t, then it wasn’t worth it.
Cards up 2-0 on LA (4th)
RH bat? Pence…makes sense! BTW, it’s 2-0 Cards top of 5.
Thanks DJ. A double update on the game.
Not for long…3-2 LA and counting…..
4-2.
I think the Ramirez deal helps the dodger but it’s not going to drive Sabean either way. Going into the weeked series SF is up 2.5 on the hated ones. 33 of their remaining games are at home and I think 21 of them will be against sub .500 clubs. While I think SF can still win the division, the additional wild card this year probaly has Sabean thinking to add arms to the BP and something for the bench hoping all stays under control until Sandoval and Sanchez are back healhly and just get to the PS any way possible. I’m just speculating as I don’t think that Sanchez is a big addition to depend on but it’s my gues on what he is thinking (also probably counting on Huff for some reason). I really hope SF does not move a prospect like Brown or Belt for that matter. The club needs as many low cost/controllable players they can hold on to.
Good analysis Dirt…I am right there with you on this. I don’t see Sabes making a big deal. Certainly not for a bat like Hunter Pence (mentioned earlier by my bud Demp28). Pence would cost too much (more in prospects). He is AE next year, and will probably get a good raise over his current salary. I don’t see a bat of his magnitude as being in the mix.
The continuing Tim troubles has really gummed up the works for Sabean. He always does mid-course corrections more of a tinkering nature, but with the starting pitching questionable as to 2/5 of it the rest of the season, tinkering to get a bit more hitting in here may not be enough. Problem is, he’s got a sparse cupboard of tradables. Everybody knows the Giants are hurting for hitters, and Brown is surely what everybody will want as the initial part of any trade convo even if the Giants agree to pick up most of salary, so how Sabes gets past that, or if he gets past it, is a puzzlement…
Zumie, your 11:02 post is spot on . . . He is good. Choate is posting a 2.49 ERA and 0.99 WHIP in 25 1/3 innings. He also has 15 holds this year.
I think the money angle from the LA perspective on this trade is getting too much attention. We’ve been softened up too long from the Giants incessant focus on budgets. Big teams operate in the big leagues, including the money angle. So what if HanRam’s getting $31 million over 2013–2014? A group that spent $2.1 billion on the club doesn’t give a fig about that. They needed infield production and were willing to risk a malcontent problem to get it, plus they get a good Pen arm as boot to taking on that big contract. Colletti must be in hog heaven with a big checkbook…
My 11:46 post and 12:29 post to Chi mirrors that thinking. As I said to Chi, “The only determining factor of whether it was worth it, is if they make the playoffs . . . If they don’t, then it wasn’t worth it.”
Hanley just mishandled a throw at 3rd…….5-4 Cards!
Hellickson and Zobris!! Make it so Capt Luc “Sabes”Picard.
Giants will need Hellboy’s arm down the stretch.And a Starter for the future at only 23..Zobrist gives.them the Switch hitter.Vet bat who plays,SS,2B,OF mostly.right.Perfect fit!
I like both, Kat…but what would the Giants have that the Rays want in return (are you willing to part with top prospects). Hellickson isn’t AE until 14 (Scott Bore-ASS is his agent). Zorbs is under control (reasonable coin) for two with an option. And why would the Rays want to deal a young starter with his potential and not want a ton in return. Again…I like those guys on our club, but not sure I see the Giants having (or willing to give) what it would cost.
1,They want a Catcher Josephs,Sanchez or Susac,2 they want a 1B, Pill/ Belt? 3…They want an infielder 2B….Noonan/Culberson/Bond probably a pitcher/ reliever as well.Hopefully.AA prospect.Sabes should just make the call and.see.what fits.
Again- the Rays aren’t doing any kind of trade like that if they’re not selling. They just picked up Roberts for a minor leaguer- not the kind of move a seller makes.
Ethier flubs one in right.
6-4 and counting………
Pill has 3 homers in last 9 ABs. Bring him up, put Panda on the DL…
They have basically 28 hours to make that call. they’ll use all 28 of ’em.
Christ, has ESPN devolved into Stephan A Smith and Skip Bayless yelling at each other 24/7?
I can’t stand either one of them. Skip Bayless is a smarmy know-it-all with the personality of a cross walk monitor, the kind of guy everyone hides from at a Christmas party. Smith is beyond arrogance, always projecting an assumption of his superiority toward others. Pox on both of them.
HanRam is a good trade for the Dodgers IMO.
Tommy Joseph might be a good fit for the Red Sox, why not get Ross back?
If they did pick up an OFer, Pagan or Blanco could be traded for some relief help. Although if Mota is baseball ready and if Panda and Hector can get back soon, a trade isn’t really needed all that much to win the Division.
My thoughts exactly. I don’t know where I read it but it said Hector would be ready Aug 2??
Yeah, Bayless was the sourge of the SJ Merc. Thankfully he left for ESPN a while ago.
Smith was OK for a while, but now he’s strctly a shrill asshole.
7-4 Cards, top 7 . . .
Okay, so I knew that Friday was the day that the decision would be made about Pablo. my point was, even with all the crap that is happening, the Giants are still in 1st place.
They were is 1st place last year at this time.
Not even close to the same circumstances.
Doesn’t really matter.
The point remains, the bench is thin even with Hector and Sandoval healthy. Huff? Burriss? Arias? They have to do something. I’m sure they will, but it’ll be relegated to scrap-heap deals.
And they have to do something more that a hope and a Pill . . .
thank God we are getting closer to agreeing on needs and the player(s) to fill those needs. Sabes reads this blog and it is getting closer to the 31st. If not for our guidance he could miss the first few days of the Olympics.
😆
Once Sabes heard the bikinis were back, he cleared his calendar.
I saw an Olympic weight lifter, I think she was from Pakistan, and she wore the full headscarf, the kind that goes over the ears and neck, but shows the face. She had long sleeved shirt and long legged pants with her jersey and shorts over. They do it out of respect so us men are not tempted to distraction.
Interesting article on the Marlins and their ongoing “fire sale”…
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/marlins-jeffrey-loria-david-samson-fire-sale-trade-hanley-ramirez-new-stadium-.html
Wow…I feel for the poor folks in Miami. Not only to get swindled like this, but to have to put up with those ugly fucking uniforms, and that abberation in CF…what a joke.
ChiP, when I read stuff like that and ruminate on the fact that the Marlins won two WS inside the space of a decade, including knocking out the Giants twice, I want to…, well, it’s not a good thought…
I don’t feel sorry for the folks in Miami. No way the tax payers should have funded that stadium. They should know better than to trust a scumbag like Loria. If they didn’t know they could have made a quick call to anyone in Montreal for details. The voter initiative to fund it was littered with with suspicious activity. If I remember right Loria even admitted demonstrating fraudelent numbers in his efforts to get it passed. Of course FL has a guy in the governor’s chair that headed a company during a time that it admittedly commited medicare fraud and coughed up a $600M fine so maybe that’s just how they roll down in gatorville. They did do well to get out from under Ramirez’s contract though and from what I have seen on TV, personally I like the stadium.
I’m with ya on that one, brother!
This was probably to be expected, as Loria is hated in Canada. Nevertheless, I am not certain I disagree with Loria and Sampson selling these parts (Ramirez, Choate, Johnson and Sanchez) of the team. Other teams do the same thing when they make a failing run for the playoffs, thus the term, “sellers and buyers.” One other note – Josh Johnson has the excellent pedigree and has had some astounding success, but doesn’t it seem like he is always on the DL? Personally, I can see why the Marlins are tired of him and Ramirez.
I’m not certain that a Flapper has already reported this . . . “The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reports Brewers general manager Doug Melvin said during a radio interview Thursday morning he is fielding phone calls with the intent to trade starter Zack Greinke.”We’ve been working here. I’m in the office in the ‘war room’ already. It’s a busy week,” Melvin said. “At this point we have to listen to opportunities to improve the ball club for the future and still try to win ball games now.” Melvin added he has been contacted by many teams, but the Journal Sentinel reports the Rangers, Angels, Braves and White Sox are actively pursuing a Greinke trade. The Dodgers are also rumored to be involved.”
Sabes should grab him thereby blocking the rangers, braves and dogers in one move.
Ed, in my opinion, we don’t need pitching, as much as we need a RH bat.
I wasn’t suggesting to spend all our deadline trading money on a pitcher. I have always liked Zach and would love to see him in org/blk. but my comment is driven mainly by the fact that teams grab players to keep them from going to the competition and the three teams you mentioned are our competition. All the other details I ignored. 🙂
Ahh. Well, your crystall ball is as good as mine on this. No idea what Sabes is going to do. 🙂
Speaking of kicking.the tires,if.The Marlins are in a fire sale mode,why not take.a flier on Gaby Sanchez?RH Bat 19 bombs in 2010 and 11.Yeah he has struggled this year,but maybe just needs a change in scenery.Doub’t he could cost to much and has a cheap contract.Could platoon at 1B with Belt and add major punch for the bench.
I mentioned it earlier Blade. The Diogs WILL improve their rotation. They are looking at Dempster (most likely), Grienke, and non-49er QB JJ.
Dempster? I understand he is in a panic about having to move from Chicago. No idea if that is true. I understand he does want to play for a contender and has 5/10 veto rights.
Dempster vetoed a trade – to the Braves I think.
It’s a final…Cards 7, Los Bumbitos 4. HanRam – 1 for 2 with two BB.
I’d say the chances of the Giants taking on a rental pitcher who would cost their top prospect plus is about 1,000,000 to one.
A paragraph from the MLB recap of the Cards-Bums game:
“Capuano was charged with six runs on 11 hits in 4 1/3 innings. Nine of the last 12 batters he faced reached base. Three of the hits were by David Freese, who drove in two runs and scored twice. Freese actually left in the sixth inning with leg cramps from running around the bases all game.”
LMAO over that last sentence.
I don’t think the kid norris or kurt suzuki are the answer for the a’s at catcher. trade one of our young ones for one of their pitchers.
I doubt that even Beane would have the gall to break up his team at the deadline this year- they were said to be in on Ramirez, doubt he’ll trade one of their starting pitchers.
Agree…I don’t see the A’s being in the “sell” mode this year. There was also talk that they were interested in Chase Headley. If anything, looks like they may try to strenghen their team to make a run at it (tough to do when you are in the same division as the Angels and Rangers).
The extra WC spot certasinly plays into this. As it sits now, the A’s are tied for one of the 2 WC spots.
but as they get people healthy they’re going to have 6 starters. with mr. perfecto still rehabbing. sounds like extra pitching to me.
As I said yesterday, the HanRam pick up doesn’t scare me too much. I’ll be far more worried if they get Grienke. Hanley is just not the same guy as he was a few years ago. He’s not even in the same ballpark. He’s down across the board (when compared to his best years) in HRs, SB’s and batting average. I think best case scenario for him is he steals 20 (or right around there) this year. He’s got 14 bombs but they are coming at the expense of his batting average which has plummeted since his mid .300 days.
And his wRC+ which used to be so dominant back in the day is at a pedestrian 106 this year.
Plus, he’s a pretty shitty defensive player who, according to scouts, doesn’t have a preferred position anymore…….
For 15 million a year, regardless if they care about the dough or not, the Dodgers can have him.
In addition, playing in the NL West, he’s going to be seeing better pitching over the course of the year than he did in the NL East……
As I said, I’d be much more worried if they start picking up all star starting pitching. Cole Hamels signing with the Phillies made me happy.
He’s basically taking Uribe’s spot, isn’t he? You don’t think that’s a huge upgrade?
fight?
Actually they’re gonna put him at ss until Gordon gets back. And the Dodgers don’t have a starting 3rd basemen, they use 3 guys–Uribe, Kennedy, and a guy from the Hairston clan.
He’s a .240 hitter at this point, That doesn’t scare me unless you hit 40 bombs a year, which he doesn’t do………
Fight stains!
If what I said can start a fight, well.. nipper you’re a shit disturber. Hanley has played third base in both starts so far. Is someone else hurt?
Gordon is coming back but they want Hanley to play SS until then. They’ve got some dude playing it now and he sucks. The Dodgers have been going with 3 guys at 3rd for a while now so they can just keep having those 3 man the spot till Hanley moves back over to 3rd. He hasn’t played SS because Mattingly told him to *get used to the idea* and take some ground balls first.
He sucks at both positions so i don’t really care where he plays…..
Atl is certainly a contender, but Dumpster vetoed that deal. I don’t know that the fuck is going on w/he and the Cubs.
The Cubs say they now want to keep him and seek to re-sign him after the season ends. Blowing smoke? The Dogs are hot and bothered for him, but nothing seems to be in the works. If not that, then the Dogs are in the JJ and Greinke hunt.
Feel bad for Miami? Fuck that. They’ve been a team for 22 years and they have 2 WS championships. At the cost of the Giants both times, no less. Sure, they’ve been dismantled 3+ times over the years, and the owner’s a nut-job. They are obviously doing something right. They continually draft very well, and have used those chips well in trades.
The Cubbies haven’t won it all in 106 years.
BLEEP Miami!
104, but who’s counting, besides Cub fans. (grin)
Was 1908 Bonehead Merkle, or was the 1906?
I wonder if they have some guy, who is an unbelievable “Einstein” when it comes to scouting and draft selections hidden away in a dungeon like office, with a Cray super computer, deep within the stadium . . . They never allow this guy to leave, nor allow contact with his family or the outside world, since his super computer is not connected to the internet via router or ethernet. They feed him via a slot in his secured stainless steel door. Loria promising him he will be released only if he delivers the 3rd World Series Championship. 🙂
Honestly, who goes where, who we get or don’t get isn’t something I trip on that much. Nothing guarantees you shit. The best example of that is the pick up of Cody Ross in 2010 and the pick up of Carlos Beltran in 2011.
The Dodgers got better with HanRam but that’s only because they had a block hole at 3rd base.I definitely will be a little worried when they they pick up a starting pitcher, depending on who that is.I was hoping they’d get Wandy. Dempster and Grienke are still out there unfortunately. Either would be a big boost to their division title aspirations…….
Hey, Flav and Loo. No value on Bob’s horse today. Especially with the SCR of the 4, Comma to the Top who’s gonna run Sunday in the Bing Crosby instead. We weren’t even going to get that 5/2 ML to start. Now you’re staring at 6/5 at best.
If you’re still interested in playing, Mandella has a firster in race 5, #3 Wunderbar [by Johannesburg out of Wandel (ARG)]. I saw her school in the paddock yesterday. She looked like new money. Both she and Bob’s horse look well meant in the 5th.
Good luck.
Thanks Dennis, but I’m headed to Reno on Sat so I’m reserving my focus for the track till then……..
Flavor- Leave your cell number at my email. I’ll see you Saturday.
I also don’t buy that this change of scenery is going to all of a sudden awake him from his hitting slumber. The Marlins went into the season with great promise, a bunch of new expensive FA pick up and a new stadium. If something extraneous was going to get him going, that would have been it.
“hitting slumber”
The reason for the Marlins flubbing? They are this year’s version of Showtime’s “The Franchise”.
Should the Giants need some bullpen help, how about the Fish’s Steve Chisek
With Heath Bell puking all over himself (and 34 years old to boot), and Cishek in the closer role, why the hell would the Fish want to deal him..esp. on the cheap (which is the type of deal Sabes will be trying to work – getting some pieces on the cheap)? I notice too how no one has mentioned closer as a role that needs addressed on the Giants.
I really don’t think we need bullpen help. I would support us picking up an actual closer (like Broxton) in case Casilla goes tits up. Outside of Casilla, we really don’t have another guy who can close on the team. And if he keeps pitching well and secures the role again, whoever we get in a trade can be an 7 or 8th inning/insurance guy.
Since it looks like Pablo will be gone for a while and Belt’s struggles are still in his shadows, I do think we need a first baseman/outfielder. I was pro-Roberts but that boat has sailed. Corey Hart isn’t someone I want or even like but he could fill that role. A bold pick up would be Morse from the Nationals. With Werth about due back the available spots in that LU are dwindling……
Wiggington from the Phillies wouldn’t be a bad pick up, though largely underwhelming…..
then you should check out my 3:49 just below you, my man
As I recall he wasn’t to pleased with them picking up Jose Reyes and asking him to move to third. So I’m not sure if he was just pissed off the whole year. I still think it was worth the gamble for the Dodgers but I also still see us taking the Division.
If that was enough to send him into a deep funk then he was a worse pick up that I originally thought. Miami had a lot of reason to be hopeful and optimistic at the start of the yea. Plus, he’s only playing SS now (well, soon) until Gordon gets back in a few weeks…….
Well, as I said earlier, Ramirez is unquestionably an upgrade IMO but not enough to cause panic up here. We could use a couple bench players and an arm who can be a decent 4. None of those cost blue chippers.
Morosi was just quoted as saying the Dodgers aren’t “actively” perusing Greinke.
At the same time, CSN Chicago reports the Cubs are closer to moving Dempster to LA.
Better they get Ryan than Zach.
absolutely agree with you on hoping they get Dempster…..
More than anythiing else we need Tim or Barry to finish well. Yesterday didn’t help. But if they pick up an arm, I dion’t see it being an ace type. More like a 4 or 5.
I’d rather get a 2nd closer than a #4 or #5. We’ve got a 4 and a 5, they’re named Timmy and Zito. What we don’t have is another closer if Casilla goes in the tank. I strongly believe that Timmy and Zito are going to coble together some kind of decent 2nd half between the 2 of them. Not that they will both do well each week but I think that both of them will probably pitch in and out the rest of the year. As you said, as long as they both don’t go tits up we’re ok there………..
My wish list is a closer and a first baseman who preferably could play the OF, too…..
Well, at this stage I wouldn’t rely on either of them but I know the deal- they’re not going to get a sarting pitcher to do mop up duty just in case- they’d have to DL Timmy or something. I had more confidence on this until last night. I have no problem with the pen. i’ve often stated they should get a 1st baseman/OFer- they’re going to need him next year when the returning OFers might be Nate,Christian, and Blanco..I’ve give Tim his next start and get help if he doesn’t perform well. But there are a lot of ways we could go, we all know they need bench help..
their most likely options with Timmy are probably first to skip a start and if that doesn’t work, DL him. I can’t envision a scenario where they send him down to Fresno, nor should they. He can work out everything he needs to work out in his BP sessions……..
of course, they won’t skipping a start any time soon. I would think he could implode at least 2 more times before they did that……
Well, I would give Tim his last start before the deadline and make a trade if he didn’t perform well. Otherwise they could be stuck with a choice between Petit and Hacker. A fairly major trade that could work is Hart,Ishikawa, and Marcum for Belt, Bochy, Crick, and Peguero.
Hey Chi . . . Are you interested in managing my Flap team for 1-2 weeks? No trades, waiver wire pickups/drops will be allowed. In other words, your job is to set my line up and pitching staff, nothing more, nothing less. I am in 2nd place, 5.5 points out of 1st behind the Pussy and I don’t want to be 11 points back when I get back.
Your reward? In the Fantasy League Pantheon of Replacement Managers, your reward – the part about 72 virgins – will occur in heaven.
Sounds like an extended coffee break with friends, or the longest shoulder workout in history…
No Loo, someone named Katie, that gives . . . umm, never mind.
Why don’t you post some G-rated details & pix? I think the social lives of Flappers would be fascinating to explore…Love it for Room B.
You go first, then I will. lqtm.
I promise.
OK. Earlier tonight, I went down to Coney Island, smoked a joint on the Wonder Wheel, drank 7 Coronas at Ruby’s and paid a Puerto Rican hooker $50 to blow me under the boardwalk during a violent thunderstorm.
Your turn.
OK, not certain, but I think I can beat that . . . Tonight, I am washing, drying and folding clothes, as well as selecting a few for my trip tomorrow to Dolores, Colorado, where I am staying with my friend, Katie.
Earlier today, was a bit more exciting – again, in preparation for this trip, I had a set of tires installed on my BMW, then went to Costco to purchase some staples for the home (not to be confused with stable boys). Tomorrow it gets really interesting Loo.
🙂
Early bed for me, GNight all.
Early to bed, early to rise………still true in 2012?
Different day to day, Mr. Loo.
Brandon Belt at the crossroads…
“For Everyone….There’s a time to decide…
That’s when the Brave Man chooses…
And the Coward Steps Aside….”
“The things that I used to do…”
Hanley used to be a guy who hit .300 regularly—now it’s a year and a half at .249.
He used to have OB of .380 and up–now it’s .325.
He used to have slg of .500—now it’s .435.
F-G lists him as 1.6 WAR player…if LA wants to pay him $15 mil for two more years of that, knock yourself out.
An upgrade over Uribe? Sure, but Arias would be an upgrade over Uribe, and so would Crawford. And I ain’t paying them $15 mil either. Personally I think this guy is a candidate for Flav’s I’m so dunn column, without even counting the off the field BS. This is so not 2009 anymore.
Tell it to my prostate, willie..
I still think SF has a better LU than LA when everyone is healthy. Melk tops any OF not named Ethier or Kemp. Posey is better at C, Pablo is better at 3b than Hanley, and the rest are at the least no worse than loney/rivera ellis and gordon.
I also think pen is way deeper and better managed. SPs I think we are slightly ahead–Cain is better than Kershaw (this year so far anyway) and Vogs and Bum top capuano and harang. Barbs and TBA vs. lincecum and zito is a wash—and won’t matter anyway come playoff time.
I hope everyone realizes my first post this morning about trading Nate was meant as a joke. Actually, one of the best reasons to keep him is because he’s basically worthless in a deal anyway. You might as well keep him and hope he doesn’t fall apart as badly as he has in the past. As I pointed out a day or so ago, he has a WAR value of less than 1.0, so he’s not bringing anyone better than “replacement” level,
Listening to Sabes with ray woodson he didn’t give much away other than to say that teams seem to value the Giants prospects, and that certain teams have told him they need more time to weigh offers and decide if they are in or out of contention. So don’t expect anything until closer to deadline…. he did say he didn’t think starting position players (like 1b or 3b) were going to be an option.
Nate is worthless in a deal? Berger will not be happy about that! But there again he might be.
BLEEP
Yeah the usual out of Sabes,Willied.Though he threw out the bench could be upgraded.Duh
Atleast he didnt use his all to familiar lines,Due Dillagence,Having Said That,Per Say,
Threw out Gaby Sanchez earlier,no feedback.Still RH Bat,Having a Garko year,now at AAA,but he does have power,19 HR’s in both 2010 and 11.Miami beat guy bascially said he will probably be traded even though Carlos Lee is just a rental,Miami is screwing him over about Arb/elg Super 2 status.Could platoon with Belt are god forgive Huff
If you guys didn’t talk so loud, I could get some sleep.. Kat, Miami generally moves guys they have to pay significant money to, or will have to soon. I’m sure they’ll hang on to Gaby and bring him back up soon- he’s cheap and under control until 2016.
Sheesh, even Verlander caught a bit of Lincecumitis this evening.
Not even God knows what Sabes is going to do at the trade deadline.
Chuck, 1908 was indeed the year of Merkle’s Boner, so to speak. As everyone may already know, Merkle’s baserunning gaffe with a few weeks left in the season turned a Giants win over the Cubs into a tie, and the Giants ended up tying the Cubs for the Pennant, and the tied “Boner game” had to be replayed at the end of the season. The Giants lost the replayed game to the Cubs, and the Cubs won the Pennant, and went on to win the World Series.
Off the trade topic for a moment. Take a look at Nick Noonan’s stats at Fresno. BA of .303, OBP around 359, SP a bit over .400, 23 doubles a couple triples and something like 7 dingers. We’re talking a 23 Y.O. who’s been playing SS and probably has had experience at 2B as well. Giants drafted him outta H.S. in ’07 at age 18. He scuffled in ’10 and ’11, mainly at Richmond and SJ after a fairly meteoric rise through the lower levels. My point is this: Though he may not have played as many positions and does not have the speed of Manny Burriss, i’d much rather have him as the utility IFer because he’s almost certainly the better hitter. Likely we won’t see him till September, though he is an internal bench option.
I’m all for any kind of change regarding Burriss. Burriss is a wasted roster spot. I can’t see anything that he does to help the Giants win games.