A land with a Sabean map
how do we go forward from here? The team, the players, the fans. Expectations. An externaty till the next time. Memories. Greatness, SF Giants style, old baseball knowlege, see ball hit ball. Pitching beats hitting every time and visa versa ~yogi
Yogi, the greatest catcher of all time until this time. In the west. Like the west coast offense, winning bball. Like no other time, this time.
Not a big team dominating headlines in NY news, just a ball club playing ball.
Not the fans screwing down another season.
Not a big fancy domination of all on the diamond.
Just us, just the World Champion San Francisco Giants!
Just a sold out crowd.
Just a play, for the win.
Just a team.
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
I’m interested to know what you guys would do with Melk and what your expectations of him would be.
Unlike a lot of players that were known roiders he wasn’t a power guy. What advantage did he have being on whatever juice he was on? Can he still hit for avg and run and throw well? Off the stuff (I’m making an assumption he is) how good a player can he be, and what type of contract would you give him? Could he fit right back into the clubhouse with his latin homies, or would he be divisive?
I realize part of this (unless you are in the just say no side of the argument) would relate to how you feel about other FAs and what’s in the minors that could contribute, and when. We still have blanco nady pence pagan, plus pill peguero brown etc.
I think that his price will determine if the Giants push hard for Melky and I have no idea how he would hit if he’s clean. What would happen in the clubhouse would probably depend on how Melky approached it during ST.
Pence is arb eligible, Pagan is a FA and I think Blanco and Nady are also FAs. So at this moment I don’t think we have a starting OF.
One Team. One Goal. WIN!!!
So, am I the only one that just got The Chambers Brothers song “Time Has Come Today” stuck in their head?
nope, still have my 8-track and car speakers just for times like this.
and a guilty pleasure, Texas Flood with my man Stevie Ray Vaughan
power
to the people
I could be wrong about this, but I don’t think the Giants even use the *M-word* inside organizational meetings. Plus, Blanco really stepped up and developed this year. His defense alone is worth a starting left field spot for him, in my opinion.
I would LOVE for the Giants to sign BJ Upton, I think he’d hit about a billion triples at ATT. Unfortunately, that’s a signing that just doesn’t look congruent— too many years/money and a guy like Upton who’s been an east coast/southern guy his whole life doesn’t usually decide to move across the country (unless the money is right).
If the Giants don’t sign Pagan (and I don’t think they’re going to), how about signing Ichiro to a 1-2 year deal, move Blanco to center and Pence to LF. That would be a sexy off season move……
I heard there was genuine interest in Ichiro prior to his going to the Yankees. I think that could be a nice signing if Pagan doesn’t happen. I think there is a 50/50 chance with bringing back Pagan.
Just throwing this out as commentary on each of the posts, so far.
First, yes…Pagan and Nady are FAs. Pence and Blanco are both AE. Pence made 10.4 mil last year, so the lowest the Giants could offer him is 8.32 mil (80% of this year’s salary). But, he will get a raise, and I will be VERY surprised if he is NOT offered arbitration. Question becomes just how much coin he will get. Blanco? I see them offering him arbitration and bringing him back as a 4th OFer. The guy can play any position in the OF and plays some pretty stellar D.
Pagan made 4.85 last year. He has publicly said (along with Scutaro and Affeldt) that he wants to return next year. I don’t see the Giants offering him more than three years. Rumor has it that he could be looking in the neighborhood of 5 years/60 mil. If he can get that, so be it…but I don’t see him getting that coin/length of contract from Sabean.
Nady is a FA. Not sure he will even be in the mix.
Regarding Melky, I do think there will be conversations. And I do think he can play some decent ball, sans-juice. But, as the article below states: “The Giants haven’t ruled out re-signing Cabrera, but internal conversations will go beyond his on-field value and weigh his drug bust, hasty exit from the clubhouse and phony website set up on his behalf in a futile bid to avoid the sentence.” I think if he came in with the right attitude, and showed true remorse, the players would accept him back. Will be interesting to see how this all plays out.
Here is the link.
http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/Holes-to-fill-No-big-deal-for-Giants-4006477.php
Other FA OFers? None really knock my socks off. Bourn or Upton could fill the CFer/lead-off need, if the club doesn’t ink Pagan. And hell no, I want nothing to do with Josh Hamilton, at least not for the coin/length of contract he will probably get.
Nice recap of the season by Hank that I just got around to reading. Not sure if it has been shared or how many have seen it, but I thought it a good read…
http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/Team-s-flaws-all-vanished-4006476.php#page-1
So I read where McGwire is thinking about being the Dodger’s hitting coach. L.A residents should lock up their dogs and daughters, the circus is definitely in town.
There’s “No Subsitituion for Victory”!
Giants Baseball ketch the fever!
Dodger Baseball “Fuck em”!
Total Losers!!!
No way do I see Melkstroid coming back.They proved to the world they could win it all without him.
Buster a team leader,has a huge presence and voice in the clubhouse.He has bascialy said that we don’t need him in this clubhouse,and the way he dissed the team when he left without even talking.to them,most teammates say “Fuck him”!
Some bask more than others (and some, not at all…you fucking Clown)…but I am still basking like a motherfucker! Some have probably seen this (from today’s Chron)…best 100 pictures…good stuff.
http://blog.sfgate.com/giants/2012/11/04/the-100-best-photos-from-the-giants-world-series-run/
Don’t get me wrong chi, I take great pleasure in what the Giants did but I do it loudly. I perceive basking to be more of a quiet enjoyment and that’s just not the way I’m wired. I hope I didn’t give the impression that others should react or celebrate the same as I do because that was never my intention.
bitch, we all want to groove like the bozo do
deep, longlasting, victory san francisco style
All this talk about them bringing back Melky…but I don’t see Melky wanting to come back. He’s going to look elsewhere so he doesn’t have to face his teammates. And I think he’ll get a nice contract. G’s aren’t even in the discussion, imo.
Well, by putting him on the 40, one of the things that guaranteed them is a small exclusive negotiating window. I don’t see him coming back, but would be really surprised if Sabes and crew don’t kick the tires on him (and if they do, we may not even hear about it). Regardless of what does or doesn’t happen, I don’t see the Giant’s brain-trust seeing him as an “important piece of the puzzle.”
I’m sure the G’s have had or will discuss it, but I just can’t see Cabrera wanting to come back and deal with the fallout. He’s history, imo.
Total numbers last season Pence had 24 HRs and 104 rbis…arb he probably gets at least $10 mill. I dunno, but his SF numbers were f-ing awful: .219 avg in 250 ABs, .287 OB/.384 slug for .671 OPS, 91 OPS+. B/R gives him a WAR of 0.1 for reg season in SF( and not much higher for 2012 in Philly), replacement level.
Postseason he was 13 for 62 with 1 HR and 4 rbis. His offensive numbers for SF were a steep decline from what he has posted in hitter friendly parks where he played previously like Houston and Philly. I remember a couple times Blade put up some cautionary numbers about him. If you keep this guy, can he protect Posey in the LU?
By all accounts Pence is a great guy, and he stands up to media when he sucks and admits he has to do more. For $10 mil, I’d expect a lot more offensively too. Is he still getting used to the yard or is he a guy who has already peaked and plateaus for rest of his career?
Imo, I’d go more heavily after Pagan, who solved a couple problems btw CF and leadoff. I also think Melk is still respected by the latin guys on the club (and there are a lot of them); blanco has stuck up for him publicly. I don’t think you can rule him out, and he would still be playing for a contract. I’m not into Ichiro and his farewell tour at all.
The choice with Pence is whether or not to offer arbitration. If the Giants do not, he is a free agent. With the question marks in the OF next year, I highly suspect they offer him arbitation. I will be VERY surprised if he is NOT back (numbers withstanding). Sure, a lot of his numbers suck, but bottom line, they guy finds a way to drive in runs.
He played almost twice as many games in Philly as for us (101 to 59), yet had almost the same number of RBIs (59 in Philly, 45 here). So, he averaged almost an RBI a game.
Seriously, I don’t see him going anywhere. He’ll be back in the Orange and Black next year.
Agree. Would be very surprised as well. Don’t believe Pagan impacts the decision on Pence either.
I agree, Salt. With about 50 mil to address free agents and arbitration eligible guys, I don’t see Pence’s arbitration impacting the negotiations with Pagan. If Pagan truly wants to come back, the lenght of the contract he desires and the amount per year will determine if he is, or is not back. Again…I don’t see Sabean going more than 3 years. I would prefer 2 with an option, but he very well may be a five year offer elsewhere. If that is the case…see ya.
I got the feeling that Pence was still getting used to the yard. It didn’t seem to get in his head, at least where I could tell. When Rowand let Pac Bell get in his head he was making, blame the field type comments and things went south from there. If it goes to arbitration, it’s only a one year deal, IMO it’s worth a shot.
Exactly…it will be only for 2013…in 2014 (if he accepts and plays for us in 2013) he will be a FA.
I didn’t see your post here willie . . . Good points and I agree with you about Melky (see my 1030am post), as well as your opinion of Ichiro. I love Ichiro, but that train has left the station, i.e., his career is over. Besides, where does he play if we retain Pence?
The Giants have 80 mil committed to next year. If the payroll stays similar to this year ($131,355,298), that means they’ll have about 50 mil for free agents and arbitration guys. I see them offering Pence arbitration, AND making a run at Pagan (but certainly not over three years).
enjoy
10 re-watches and still the same
YES!
FUCK YEAH!!!!!!
Oh Hell yes!! Fuckin Awesome Video!!
Love the part about the freakin Dodgers…No time for “Losers”(Dodgers)
Cause we are “The Champions of the World”!
Yeah!
Loverly.
If you look at the big 4 ( Pagan, Scutaro, Afeldt, Pence ( not a FA but can become one if not offered arb), everyone of them, Affeldt to the least degree, pose large risks in retaining. Pagan- those weren’t just rumors out of NY, he’s proven that he’s a positive influence when he’s *happy*. Scooter- he hit 90 poiints over his career average and he’s 37. Two risks- his age and what can’t be dismissed- possibility of PED use. Affeldt: is any mid-reliever worth 6 milion a year? Pence: it will cost minimum 12 million to keep him ( he’s getting 10.4, regardless of his numbers here, 24-104 at age 29 gets a big raise. 12 million is probably conservative.
You beat me to it Mike . . . In the back of my mind, I have been wondering if Scutaro has taken PEDs too. Hey, no biggie if he has, since I suspect all ball players of taking them. I just hope he doesn’t get caught.
OK, probably the “Lone Ranger” here, but you absolutely bring back Melky. I think of it as a cheap insurance policy. Due to him being on the roster, I see two things here: 1. Giants want him back – see Chi’s comment above about having an exclusive negotiating window, then ask yourself why would they do that? and, 2. As I alluded to in my first sentence, he will come dirt cheap (or at least relative to what he would have gotten before he was busted).
I could give a rat’s ass about him doing drugs, lying about it, being stupid and posting a web site, etc. He’s a fucking baseball player, not a rocket scientist or some spiritual guru. By the by, Blanco is not the answer. Great utility player, but if you look at just about every baseball roster prediction for 2013, they are saying the same thing. Keep him, but no way is he the answer in left field.
This is what I envision in the outfield: Melky, Pagan, Pence. Make it so Sabes . . .
One other thing about Melky, he is 28 years old. Go check out the 2013 free agent outfield list. Most of these guys should be applying for social security and medicare. In short, Cabrera is in his prime, so these years figure to be his best regardless of any drug use. Sign him.
Well, as I alluded earlier, you’re assuming he’s dying to come back to the team that shunned him and he won’t get offered a pretty sweet deal elsewhere.
I don’t think anyone said he (Melky) is dying to come back, but I sure as hell don’t see him getting any “sweet deals” elsewhere. And the comment about him not wanting to face the team, I think if the money was right, etc., he would get over that, and it could happen. I just don’t think you can definitively say either there won’t be negotiations, or that he won’t be back.
I’m with Blade…if he accepts a contract where the money/length of the contract is right for the Giants…I say bring him back.
Ok, ‘sweeter’ deal ;)…With a very weak FA class, I don’t think he’ll have to settle for a ‘dirt’ cheap deal here.
But I’m not against him returning.
LMAO, and I agree with your spin on the situation, brother.
And let the hot stove begin
And yes, his team mates like him (Giant Latin players love him) or why would they vote him a FULL WORLD SERIES SHARE?????
OK, I lied . . . The Union requires that he get a full share. HEHEHE . . . 🙂
I think the full share was a union thing. Something about a player coming off of a drug suspension and being able to play a certain amount of games or something. The article the other day on SFGate about WS shares brought it up.
If voted on, he probably would have gotten a full share anyway but there wasn’t a vote for Melky.
Never mind.
Grin. Sorry. 😉
Dang Blade, a grin and a smiley face?
Yeah, I have Zumiee disease.
Actually, they had no say in it. There was a vote (the details of which are not known at this time), but the vote in this case is worthless, as the rules on how this all works out stipulated that he got a full share.
Here is one detail from the article link I am posting on the Melky/cut issue:
“Then there’s Cabrera. He spent 117 games on the roster this season, and he stood to make 72.2 percent of a full share. But an obscure union rule mandates a full share if a player’s team plays 10 games after the suspended player is eligible to be reinstated.
Cabrera was eligible to come back for Game 1 of the NLCS. The Giants chose to keep him on the shelf, but the team also played 11 more playoff games. And that triggers a full share for Melky.
Merry Christmas, pal. Don’t spend it all in one place.”
You can read the full article here (I think snarkk posted this last night, too.)
http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/Rule-Full-playoff-share-to-Melky-Cabrera-4006463.php
Steve…did not see you comment about “The Union requires that he get a full share.”
At the end of the day…it doesn’t matter…Melky gets a full cut.
Kruk has made direct and indirect references to how the players feel about Melky— they are done with him. And not saying goodbye was the deal breaker. Say what you want, but baseball is played by a tight knit group of guys who have each other’s backs. He bailed. And it did not go unnoticed (according to Krukow).
Hey, I appreciate that Krukow has an inside tract to some of the intimate things going-on in the club house. But the decision on whether or not to engage/explore Melky will be made more by Sabean, etc. I am sure he will consider the input of the players, but at the end of the day, it is a baseball decision as to what will or will not make the team stronger.
With all that said, I tend to agree with Blade’s spin on the situaiton. At the end of the day will it all translate into him being signed? That is something that will shake-out over time, but I will be very suprised if there isn’t at least some dialogue…I still think they’ll kick the tires.
I could watch that Askon video all day. It’s his best yet, in my opinion. The lyrics are clever and he’s hilarious.
I thought it was awesome. Can you imagine being in a bar with that guy during a game?
Good lyrics, agreed.
I liked the 2010 one a little better, maybe due to the novelty of it. A bit of been there, done that. Plus, the 2010 one had his dead-on Will Clark mimic swing — that was very good…
no more dogers
best line
besides the part where
we are the champions
IMO, no Melky, you have to look at team chemistry. lets face it, he was not even at the parade!! as far as I know he still has not addressed the team in anyway!! If he walks into ST with a contract, I am telling him to FO!! nope not happenin!!
Hilarious.
Melky is up for MLBs “heart and hustle” award today…
A’s signed 40 yr old steroid user Colon for $3m plus incentives could take it to 5-6m, so we’ll be interesting to see what offers the Melkman gets.
This might have been posted when the Giants signed Theriot, but it is the first time I have seen it. LMAO
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tootblan
And exactly how much of a “tootblan” was Theriot as his ass scampered around third and slid into home with the winning run in the NLCS? Just saying…
That’s hysterical . . . Lots of folks out there looking to blame anything on a Cubbie.
Well, all of you who definitively say “no how, no way,” that is your prerogative. I’ve shared my opinions on how I think it could all go down…and it is just that…an opinion.
I really could give a rats-ass if he comes back or not. But if the Giants brass thinks he can help the team win next year, and decide to bring him back, I can guarantee you there will be enough discussion before-hand (with the players, etc.) to allow as smooth a transition back onto the team as possible.
Time will tell.
Thank God Sabean is not close minded like some people. Consequently Chi, your point about “. . . if the Giants brass thinks he (Melky) can help the team win next year” is something I concur with. Again, Sabean having him on the roster is indicative that he is not going to shut the door on what possibly would be a great fucking deal.
That being said, I do think team chemistry is important, but it’s very rare that one guy becomes a cancer when you have the other players on the same page . . . Usually that dude falls in line. Sabean earned my trust years ago – I never trashed him when most fans did. Why? I blog. He general manages. ‘Nuff said.
I too trust Sabean, and have never trashed him either. I like your ending…”Why? I blog. He general manages. ‘Nuff said.” And I concur with a ‘Nuff said on your ‘Nuff said.
With Colon, the A’s re-signed a PEDster, and he still has 5 games suspension at the start of next season. The Giants OF is in a total state of flux for next Spring Training. Who knows how many guys in this year’s clubhouse will even be around next season to be supposedly pissed off at Melky? Blanco had no problem with him, in fact missed him, and Melky would take Blanco’s job. Scutaro wasn’t even there — he arrived after Melky left. So, I say definitely go forward with negotiating with him. If he’s on the team, the first time he has a two hit game with a game winning RBI, he’ll be welcomed back into the fold — and ATT fans will be forgetting the suspension pronto. If somebody in the clubhouse doesn’t like how he left, get over it. We have a championship to defend. It’s not like there are MLB ready OFers crawling out of the woodwork down in Fresno and out in Richmond. As for Ichiro, no thanks. I saw some clips of him late last season. He’s looking old. We don’t need that…
Forgive me for not going back to earlier post, threads etc, but don’t remember anyone saying put him in the outfield for the WS. I believe everyone was talking about team chemistry at that point. All of a sudden team chemistry means nothing!! Thats a crock!!
Kevin – I never said “team chemistry means nothing.” And Blade above even states “That being said, I do think team chemistry is important.”
Look. When the Giants had a chance to add Melky to the post-season roster, they did not. And I trusted Sabean, Bochy, and whoever had a hand in that decision with making the right call. And “my opinion” is they made the right choice.
They DID however put him on the 40 man. And what that does is two things: 1) It provides the Giants with an exclusive negotiating window (if they so choose to negotiate with Melky/his agent)…it DOES NOT mean they will. 2) It sets them up for a compensatory pick if he does indeed sign elsewhere. The decision to put him on the 40, IMNSHO, was “a smart baseball decision.”
With all that said, ALL I am saying is if the fucking guys who make the god damned baseball decisions (Sabean, Bobby Evans, Dick Tidrow, Bochy, etc.) decide to negotiate with him, and bring him back…then I TRUST them to know what the fuck they are doing. NOTHING MORE…NOTHING LESS.
We can all crow until the fucking cows come home, but if the Giant’s brass decides Melky is a good deal, AND they think he can help them win in 2013 (and at the end of the day…those are two very important points), then I trust that they did their homework. If it reaches this point…I trust the whole chemistry thing will fall in line. I agree with snarkk’s earlier comment in that regards – “the first time he has a two hit game with a game winning RBI, he’ll be welcomed back into the fold” (if not sooner).
Good post Chi.
Frankly Kevin, I have no idea what you are trying to say with regard to your 1:09pm post, where you say, “I believe everyone was talking about team chemistry at that point. All of a sudden team chemistry means nothing!! Thats a crock!!”
Sabes decision to leave Melky off the roster in the playoffs and World Series was unequivocally the correct decision and to the best of my knowledge, no one disagreed with him on that. Why? We were on a frickin’ hot streak after Melky got suspended. In short, you don’t fuck with that “team chemistry,” especially with the playoffs occurring.
However, that has nothing to do with next year’s roster and team chemistry. When Spring Training arrives, all bets are off and it’s a new year for everyone, including Melky (should Sabean decide to pursue and sign him).
That is what I was talking about, Team Chemistry during the playoffs. So if your management you decide that Melky is good for the Team next year and give him a contract, you are going to walk into the club house and tell the guys that Melky is back if any of you have a problem too bad?? well I say good luck with that. I am just saying this is my opinion, nothing more.
Yeah, I just don’t see it happening with the Melkman. The players may get over it, but the front office? Uh, no. The Giants may offer him something, but it won’t be the best offer out there. Sabes will lowball him and see if anyone matches it. If not, I guess it could happen, but I don’t think he’s very high on their list.
I don’t think being on the 40 man directly earns them a pick if he signs elsewhere. i think you get a pick if you make him an offer and he declines and then signs somewhere else. So from that standpoint, I guess he needs to be on the 40 man, but that’s not even an issue if they never make him an offer.
I see where you guys are going with the “if Melky can help the team he should be on the team” thing. And in normal circumstances I think that’s true. I just think that bailing on the team without saying even a word to them was a sign to his teammates that this guy is a fraud and they don’t want him back because of that—not because he can’t help them, but because he’s a fraud.
And this isn’t just Kruk talking about it, Buster has literally ignored answering questions about him whenever he’s been asked. And he brushes the questions off in a very short, quick way, like he has no interest in even giving the question the time of day–like Melky means nothing to him. And that’s probably what he turned into for all the guys when he walked out without so much as a goodbye (much less an explanation).
Yes, you’re right on the offer (qualifying offer). Here is a piece from MLBTradeRumors on the subject:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/05/qualifying-offers-for-free-agents.html
If their estimate on the qualifying offer (12-13 million) is accurate, then no way the Giants make an offer.
Flavor, I don’t doubt any of what you say is true re: Buster, etc. But that to me does not mean they will not “kick the tires.”
And if he came in with a sincere apology, no telling how that could potentially affect other players’ feelings on the subject. Much of the whole discussion is subjective (and we have all offered our opinions), but bottom line…I still think the Giants kick the tires. That’s all…nothing more, nothing less.
Has it dawned on anyone that maybe Melky doesn’t *want* to come back?
Well, I brought it up this morning…
So you did. I missed it, sorry
No problem, Ted
Now this is funny.
Even some BBOTDs at the end . . .
HAHA, good one. I liked the trophy room.
I cannot quite explain why I loved it so much. Terrific.
WTG international
The Giants aren’t going to non-tender Hunter Pence, even though he’ll cost $13-14MM as an arbitration eligible player, Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com reports (on Twitter). MLBTR projects a $13.8MM salary for Pence in 2013.
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/san_francisco_giants/#lR2soDgxP3OMhpRb.99
Melky will likely go back to the AL. Unless Coletti continues with his picking up of our scraps.
Yankess claim Whitehead? Stewart wasn’t enough?
Dude’s got 2 rings and 0 ABs . . . . Hell of a casserole though.
Whiteside goes to the dark side.
Will his hair turn black?
It ain’t gonna get any less gray playing in the Bronx, that’s for sure.
Stewart and Whiteside on the Yankees? And an aging Jeter returning from foot surgery who knows when. And A-Rod hitting like Rowand.
Yankee fans should start smelling the magic. And by “magic,” I mean dog poop, as Triumph the Insult Dog would say.
Get this. I arrange finally to meet Sam P. for lunch. He’s the Syracuse guy whose car (actually his son’s) sported a Giants’ license plate holder last summer. I left a calling card on the windshield. He emailed me in response. We texted and talked during the playoffs, but had never met till today. I walked into Asti’s ristorante, and he was sporting a Giants’ jacket, me a 2010 WS hoodie, orange. The server seats us. Boom! The table next to us: “Giants! All right!” Yikes, two attractive women, a man, an older lady. One is from San Francisco! I excitedly tell the folks at our adjoining table that Sam and I are meeting for the first time and it is only because we are Giants fans, I just went to the Series, writing a book, blah blah blah. How do you plan this?! Better yet, Sam and I discover that our mothers-in-law live in the same freaking building in Kirkwood, some 70 miles away!!!
Daughter has whooping cough, turning in early, g’night, girls.
Wow, Pawlie. WCough is not good. Sincerely hope that goes away ASAP for your daughter. Get a vaccination for yourself and other family members ASAP, too…
10pm California time and I am jumped up. My team. Champions. I repeat: those boys need to get some R&R.
and dig into the victory they have fashioned. Brilliant, Bold, and fucking A, the best.
If Melky comes back, will the Melk Maids return with smaller bosoms?
Were they on MEDs?
Melk Enhancing Drugs…
…