Damn it’s Cold – So Throw another Log or Two into the Belly of the Stove…
“Two and two the count…Romo shakes off Posey. Now, has the one he likes. Romo’s 2-2 pitch on the way. Cabrera takes strike three, called! And the Giants have won the World Series in Detroit! And the celebration begins as the Giants mob the mound…”
It seems that almost as soon as Dave Fleming made that call it was…
“It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it, rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive, and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.”
I love that poem by former baseball commissioner A. Bart Giamatti. As most of you probably know, that is a portion of “The Green Fields of the Mind,” which is my favorite baseball-related piece. Absolutely beautiful. Beautiful like a well-manicured infield or an outfield of lush, green grass. Sigh…
So, when it gets cold, and you’re about a hundred days away from pitchers and catchers reporting, what do you do? Well of course, you throw another log or two into the belly of the stove. You fire up that Hot Stove!
Sometime during the course of the season I shared a thread where I asked you all to put on your GM hats and offer your spin on some GM-related topic. That was fine then (probably during the All Star break), but now, as Winter casts her harsh breath on us, the time could not be more appropriate.
So, you’re Brian Sabean. You have a 50 million dollar budget to fill the holes and shape the 2013 squad that will defend the 2012 Giants’ spoils.
First, within the reality of a 50 million dollar budget (and some semblance of realistic contract money), what would your Opening Day line-up look like? Call this your “Plan A.” And if you added free agents (Giant or otherwise), let us know what the dollar figure and length of contract is for those free agents.
Okay, so Plan A doesn’t quite pan-out the way you wanted…say you miss on two of those free agents in Plan A (pick any two). What now?
Hopefully that will provide the spark to generate enough heat to take us through one more dark, dismal day. But also optimistically one day closer to Spring Training, Opening Day…and that call we all love…“Play Ball!”
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
I think I read yesterday SF will offer arb to Pence. that will cost them $12 mil or so for a year, which I would bet is all they would do (no contract deal) and hope they get more than .219 out of him. Pagan I sincerely hope takes a 3 yr deal $25-ish maybe. It’s been said here a lot, but I don’t know where else would work out better for him. I realize guys often take the best money deal they can get, but I hope he enjoyed it here enough to stay.
Affeldt gets his $$ too for what’s likely his last deal. He’s a big part of the set up group and I’m all in on them. Even without wilson (I think you have to prepare for that) SF has 6 good guys in the pen and an edge on most everyone. Affeldt’s ability to get out guys from both sides of the plate and to pitch more than one inning if needed puts him in better stead than others, imo. He’s a key part of a repeat.
And that’s your goal. I’m leery blanco can hold up for 500 ABs without a massive slump, so I offer Melk a show me shot–one year deal with incentives (ABs, hits, runs produced). show me you’re a team guy, who can hit for avg and play a decent LF, and that you deserve to be part of defending champ team. I’d love to give Upton a shot but I fear he’ll get too many big offers. Scuts stays, 2 yr deal, done ASAP.
I’m hoping Lincecum can take something from his post season success out of the pen and build on that this off season. This is another guy playing for a contract and a chance to stay here, to show that last year was an anomaly. And hey, don’t tell the f-ing bean counters how much all this is going to cost—in fact, don’t even bother rousting them from counting all the cash the team raked in from post season success…just buy em new calculators since the old ones probably blew up anyway.
My sentiments exaclty (including exploring Melky for one year). And I get it…there are a lot of different opinions there…but I think it would be a gross oversight NOT to kick the tires on him.
reading end of the thread from yesterday, I’m sure the cons will be out in force with new ammo for next 4 yrs. Interesting that O won so much of the minority vote plus younger voters. On merc blog is a quote from a south carolina guy who said that anyone who thought mitt wasn’t conservative and hard ass enough is dead wrong.
Local gal deb saunders last week took on brown and his tax plan; GOP here had it’s best shot in previous election and put up nutmeg and where’s carly’s yachts as their best candidates. Gotta have a better plan that can be more inclusive of everyone in this diverse state.
Now back to baseball!
Just saw an interview with Ted Cruz, newly elected Republican senator from Texas, and clearly the Republicans intend to work with Obama just as they were willing in his first term- if he does what they want, they’re on board..
BTW, I guess Massachusetts residents have forgotten how wonderful Mitt was- he suffered the second worst home state defeat since Jonh Fremont in 1856. Mitt trails Obama by 61 to 37.5 percent…
I pray they won’t pursue Melky and it’s hard to imagine that Sabean wants or needs to recapture the throne as the PED user’s best friend..
One rep strategist said the Republican Party had become a “’Mad Men’ party in a ‘Modern Family’ America.” But some in their party thinks they lost because Mitt was too moderate. Should be fun to watch them fight it out.
Yeah, I love watching Fox to see their unique spin on things and how they went down. It was the usual ‘Romney was too moderate’ ‘he didn’t attack enough’ ‘the media bias doomed Romney,’ Amazingly Sarah Palin actually made sense more than just about anyone else regarding why he lost. It came down to Ohio and the auto jobs. Romney continually said he wouldn’t bail out the auto industry and he lost Ohio because of it.
Funny thing is, Romney got more votes from white America than Bush did in 2004. Young, old, rich, poor, men, women. Unfortuanely for Rmoney, the country is changing. This was the last attempt by the old guard rich white dinosaurs to win a national election. The republicans need to rethink shit. And it really wouldn’t be too hard for them to garner the Latino vote. If they would just ease up on immigration, they would gain a lot of traction with Latinos. Many of whom are very religious and fiscally conservative.
The only hope I have for any kind of progress with anything in this country is if the repubican house continues its stonewalling of everything Obama tries to do, they get their asses voted out. It would help them in the future to try and reach SOME kind of accord on issues going forward.
This was the last attempt by the old guard rich white dinosaurs to win a national election
——————–
Maybe. We’ll se if that’s true 4 years from now. It’s hard to change delusional minds
The problem with this off season is, there just isn’t any FA I’m dying to have sign with SF–mostly because of the cost combined with the fact that there isn’t a position that I think we need to substantially upgrade. But I agree with probably most of you, if I had to pick 1 position it would be LF (I do think Blanco would be better as a 4th OF).
Looking at mlbtraderumors top 50 FA list, the only outfielder I’d be remotely interested in signing is Cody Ross– and I wouldn’t give him more than 2 years (he’s seeking 3). I’d sign Ichiro to a 1 year/15 million dollar deal, but he probably wouldn’t bite. Maybe give him a player option 2nd year if he hit certain incentives. And I’d be ok with Pagan returning on a 3 year deal (though not ecstatic for the reasons I’ve listed before).
Upton? Bourn? Eh, too expensive. We have a good, young team right now. This isn’t like 2010 where we won the series with a bunch of last-stand water buffalo’s. We’re good to go for the next couple of years, provided our pitching stays together……
*If* Belt proides more power as most observers seem to think he will and *if* Pablo stays healthy and in reasonable shape, they should be able to start Blanco in LF and be just fine, IMO. Maybe even Brown.
Inclined to think going all out to resign Pagan, Affeldt AND Scutaro will be a costly mistake. I look at the lessons from 2010 when they brought back Ross, Burrell, Huff and tried to resign Uribe. Like the idea of shaking things up a bit.
The other thing is, many of the key moves Sabean has made were done at the deadline, so not too worried if they have to start the season with no Affeldt and Blanco in CF.
Yeah, the guys I’d like to get are going to be WAY too costly. Sign Greike and put Timmy in the pen. Right.
Ross, Burrell, and Huff were are a bit older than these guys (well, not Scooter). Affeldt really came on strong by the end of the season and was nails even getting righties out. He sounds like he’s gone though. He’ll get an offer the Giants won’t match. Scoots scares me cuz of his age, but man, the dude can hit. Franchez is fighting his way back, but that ship has likely sank. So, it’s Scoots or The Riot. 2 and an option for Scoots? Ichiro is another semi-pricey guy who may or may not stay as his usual level of production due to his age. He wants more than the 1 year deal I’d offer him. One and an option? You’d think the guy would hit a ton of gaps at the phone booth, so there is that.
Pagan comes down to what others are offering. He says the right things, but they all do. He just won the WS for God’s sake. What’s he gonna say? “Gee, it’s great to win and all, but I want to see how much bank I can make.” Which is pretty much what Affeldt said, though.
That being said, I wouldn’t go over 3 for Pagan.
Bourne? Upton? i like Upton more the Bourne, but he’ll be getting a 5 year deal most likely. Sorry, no.
I’d let Pagan go, Affeldt too, though I like both of them. I’d definitely give Scoots 2 years and maybe even 3. Second base is not a position I want to see as a black hole again going into ST.
I agree with most everyone’s spin (sans Salt – which is a bit uncommon for me). I like the idea of retaining our top three FAs (Affeldt, Pagan, and Scutaro).
I would attempt to go 3 with Pagan. I like the 25 mil range that someone mentioned, but not sure he will accept either the coin or lenght of contract. (I have read that the Phillies could have interest, and if that is the case, they probably overpay on length of contract and coin, and fuck them…let them do it.)
Scutaro – 2 years for around 15. Maybe an option 3rd with a low $$ buyout.
Affeldt – he will want a minimum two. That is what I would shoot for. Maybe two and an option. And if the money was right, and three was absolutely all he/his agent would accept, I would have to think long-and-hard on that one. Relievers like him who can pitch multiple innings and get guys out from both sides of the dish don’t exactly grow on trees.
I like Blanco more off the bench and as a 4th OFer. But as Michael said, “IF” Belt and Pablo produce “consistently” and Panda stays healthy, I could see him in LF. But, my preference would be to bring in someone like Ross (Flavor mentioned him) and have Blanco as a 4th.
If I was only able to sign 1 of the 3 top FAs, I would get agressive on finding a CFer (Bourn, Upton, etc.), and explore a trade for a 2nd baseman if Scoots doesn’t work out (have seen mention that Ian Kinsler may be available).
Chi, there really is no “etc.” Bourn and Upton are it. This is one of the worst outfield free agent classes, much less center field free agent classes I have ever seen. Most of them are too old and/or too expensive.
Regarding Pagan, in my opinion there is no way, no how, he signs for less than a 4 year contract. I hope we are able to resign him. He is a known quantity.
Cody Ross might repeat what he did last year with one prerequisite, he gets to play in Boston. Again, only my opinion, but I think it’s lunacy to think he can put up similar numbers here. Actually, I think he plays here, he doesn’t even come close to those 2012 numbers.
No on Hamilton. Too expensive and he is injury prone. By the by, how many World Series does he have? Zero. No on Bourn. Why sign him, when we have Pagan, who has played under pressure and performed admirably for us? In the playoffs and World Series no less? A very, very small sampling, but Bourn has done less than jack shit in 2 playoff series. No on Upton – too expensive, strikes out too much and his OBP is the shits. If you go by last year, the only one worse in OBP would be Pence by a hair.
If we fail in resigning Pagan, I am guessing that Sabean will probably explore a trade before he bites on this putrid free agent class.
I would not try too hard with Affeldt. With LA paying League a king’s ransom (3 x $7.5), Affeldt will say he’s better than that dude, and want to get paid in his last contract. I think he’s due for a down year. He was nails in 2010 and late this year and POs, but he can have some periods of being pretty sketchy, which I think will increase with age. He’s got two rings here, he’s got nuttin’ left to prove or achieve here, so he’s looking for the dough, and so would I in his position…
I am not saying overpay him, but I would try to bring him back, ideally on a two-year deal.
“take us through one more dark, dismal day.”
Whatchoo talkin’ ’bout, Willis? The Central Valley is 76 degrees today, with Springtime sunshine.
But your bigger point is true- NO BASEBALL GAMES BEING PLAYED. AAAHHHH!!!!
I’m SO READY for the next season to start, so much more than I was in 2011. There’s something different this time. Winning 2 out of 3 years shows us all deep down it wasn’t just a once-in-a-generation miracle! It could be us winning it again next season, maybe. Why not??!!
Zumie – Yeah…it’s a gorgeous day in the Sierra foothills. “Dark dismal day” was in reference to “life without baseball,” but you probably got that.
Agree about next year. A number of Flappers have made the same comment…snarkk, me, you.
2013? Back-to-Back? Why Not?
On Affeldt, I would go two years at 12 (6 per). That is a mil raise per compared to this year’s salary.
He has had two pretty damned good years back-to-back.
2011 – 2.63 ERA, 67 Appearances, 61.2 IP, 5 HR, 1.151 WHIP, 6.9 H/9, 0.7 HR/9, 3.5 BB/9, 7.9 SO/9, 2.25 K/BB
2012 – 2.70 ERA, 67 Appearances, 63.1 IP, 1 HR, 1.263 WHIP, 8.1 H/9, 0.1 HR/9, 3.3 BB/9, 8.1 SO/9, 2.48 K/BB
Affeldt’s gone. He’s taking the money and running. He said as much in the interviews while going through the damn parade. Pagan likely follows suit. Can’t say I’d really blame him, but how much is enough, and how many times more do you want to move your family around the country? Having never been in the situation where I’ve been offered millions of dollars to move across the country, I guess the scratch would be hard to pass up on. But again, how much is some stability worth? He’s got kids in school, but tough shit guys, time to make new friends. We’re moving to Boston.
where i’ll pitch for a crappy team and be miserable cuz it turns out i hate losing but i’ll try not to take it out on you and the dog. the tv’s in for a ride though.
I disagree on Affeldt. I bet he is back. I think he will be a priority for Sabean (whether or not any of us agree).
Pagan – hard to imagine a team (I mentioned this earlier) like Philly, who need OFers, not overpaying for the guy. And yes…I see him taking the years/money over what Sabes will offer.
Scoots – I think he will be back.
I would also bring Theriot back on the cheap, if possible.
Anyone up for flying to Venezuela for some winter league ball?
If Pagan gets priced out of the Giants range, so does Affeldt I think. The one interview I heard with Affeldt was to the effect of “It’s been a blast, had a great time, but it’s time for me to move on to greener scratch, uh pastures.”
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Hmmm…certainly different than the interview that I heard…
I heard that too, I think. Right after or during the parade. Yep, he sounded like he had one foot out the door, knew Sabes wasn’t going to meet the big-time scratch he’s going to be offered elsewhere. I’ll be very surprised if Affeldt comes back. Who’s replacing him – Runzler? Oy…
Chuck, I would guess that most of the time (or at least half the time) the player doesn’t move his family with him (if he’s got kids in elementary school). In fact, Affeldt’s home is in Washington she’d be moving from there (if she did go with him).
That’s why I’d bet the location of the team is factored in big time when the player is deciding on where to play. A west coast team would probably be much preferred for a guy like Affeldt as opposed to the Yankees.
Some do, some don’t. Seeing as baseball is played mainly in the summer, I’d guess most times the kids stay put wherever they are. I think about 80% of all the ballplayers live in either Texas, Fla, or AZ for tax purposes.
Mets cut loose Jason Bay….Owe him 2 yrs 21Mil.Thank are lucky stars we never pursured his sorry ass.He can team up with Rowand in a Beer league softball team in Vegas now.
Interesting that the guy most likely to disappoint is the one most likely to return. We all know that Scutaro isn’t going to hit .360 but at his age putting up even his average .270 10-60 season is iffy. I’d entertain signing him if the money reflected a realistic assessment of what he’ll contribute. But I’d think he’ll get 15 million over 2 years from somebody. I’d think hard about going with Theriot, who they can probably get at 3 million tops for one year. He doesn’t have Scooter’s pop but I think he’s a much safer option- and he’s a good little player. With all that said, it looks like they will sign Scooter. In that case- sign ’em both for sure…
he’s the most likely to return because he’ll be the easiest to sign. Pagan will have suitors and Affeldt is looking at a lot more dough than he was last week after the Dodgers threw 20 million at League. Idiots.
Scoots is 37, hasn’t had a huge career, it would be unusual for someone that old to get much more than a 2 year deal. Thus, probably the easiest to sign (of the 3).
I know he’ll be the easiest to sign, that’s been the word all along, and my post says he’s the most likely to return. That doesn’t make him a good signing. If they get his career numbers out of him they should be ecstatic and he’ll be worth what he’s getting now, no more. IMO.
well what would be the point in trying to squeeze Theriot’s *career numbers* out of him in 2013? If we’re going to try to *squeeze* I’d rather it be Scoots than Theriot. Both are obviously not developing, and neither has had a great career. I wouldn’t want the Giants to sign Scoots and hope he hits .360 again. That’s not going to happen. But he’s a very good hitter (better than Theriot by a mile) and he has an unbelievable influence on the Latin guys (and probably all the guys) in the clubhouse.
I’d sign him to a 2 year/20 million dollar deal in a heartbeat and give him a player option if he hit 1300 at bats (or some similar option) over the course of those 2 years….
Theriot is 32, not 37. His career numbers, except power, are comparable to Scooter’s. He’d cost about 3 milion for one year. Like I said, I imagine they will sign Scooter, in which case signing Theriot as well would be a real good idea. But, hey, let’s talk Alex Smith. Second basemen are fucking boring..
( I’m kidding) Maybe..
Right before the players rolled in the parade, Affeldt was interviewed. He said each of his kids were born during a WS season for his team (Rocks and two with us). When his wife was asked if she was going to have any more kids, she said no. Although I was all for signing him and Lopez at the start of the year, but no more WS babies? Thanks for the memories Jeremy and hello Jose Mijares (please, sit your girlfriend right behind Home on cold nights).
I think they might have used Mijares against RHers more than he had been before- with the possibility of losing Affeldt in mind- and he did quite well.RHers had a .231 BAA in 32 plate apppearances vs. 205 for LHers in 42 PA.
Matt Williams and Walt Weiss are the finalists for the Rockies manager position. Hoping Mattie gets it, but per the locals here, Weiss has the inside track.
Did they interview Wotus?
What has Weiss done deserving of the position?..
He has worked for them snarkk. The decision will be made tomorrow. No idea if Wotus just filled out the list or was actually considered (probably the former). Weiss is well thought of here. Currently, he is the baseball coach at Regis University.
I looked this up Blade. Weiss coached at a Regis high school, not university, if this article is right.
http://www.denverpost.com/rockies/ci_21944021/rockies-interview-williams-but-weiss-favorite-become-manager
Weiss has no pro managing experience at all. I guess since he has a Rockie’s history as player and assistant in the front office he has an inside track?
Anyway, if Wotus doesn’t get a managing job this offseason, I doubt he ever will. How can you ignore a guy who’s been bench coach for over a decade and on 2 champ teams in 3 years? Does Wotus give bad interview? He speaks as well or better than Bochy when interviewed by the media. He’s relatively young and energetic. So GMs take a guy like Weiss or even Matt Williams over somebody who’se coached and just won two WSeries where the oppo was totally outmanaged? Seems weird to me…
You beat me.
Maybe SF has signaled Wotus that whenever Bochy wants to go fishing permanently, he has the job? But, I would doubt that, just doesn’t seem right. I’m stumped to explain why Wotus isn’t turning down offers, rather than getting none. And, Wotus knows the NL West teams inside/out…
Not saying there isn’t more, but so far all I’ve found making Weiss qualified to manage the Rockies is that he coached his son’s high school team this year. He was going to continue doing that until the Rocks called.He has never managed or coached at the pro level. But he’s fine guy and good dancer.Clearly more qualified than Wotus…
(I confirmed, there isn’t more. Coaching HS baseball is his resume)
No idea if it’s Regis University (which I attended in the late 90’s) or high school. Bottom line is that he will probably be selected tomorrow, with Williams having an outside chance. Wotus has NO chance. It’s Bizzaro World when you’re dealing with the Monforts. They were shocked that Tracy walked out on his contract. Tracy may be an idiot insofar as being a field general, but he is honorable and would not allow his name to be sullied by their weird and illogical machinations on the field (e.g., 75 pitch count) and clubhouse (upper management spy given an office adjacent to his).
OK, maybe Wotus wanted nada to do with the ownership. Too bad, Wotus would probably be a good manager. Your post prompted me to Google the story about Tracy leaving. Looks like a weird situation for any manager. You don’t see guys normally walk away from a guaranteed $1.4 million…
Well, think about this . . . Tracy has been the second Rockies manager to do so, Jim Leyland being the first. He also left much more on the table than Tracy. Couple that with the Monforts and O’Dowd doing a “whisper” campaign after Leyland left, e.g., saying that he got drunk frequently at a local piano bar/watering hole, where he would serenade other guests on the piano and come to work hung over and disinterested in his sorry team. I suspect that all of the aforementioned are lies or at least half-truths, since the Monfort brothers are despicable and universally hated by Rockies fans.
I understand those who don’t want anything to do with Melk, but really he’s only guilty of being ——enough to get caught. As was Mota, for the second time. Anyone buy ryan braun is innocent because the fed ex guy ate his homework? I notice Beane didn’t waste any time re-signing Bartolo Colon for $3mil…I just can’t believe these are the only guys using in all of mlb.
Imo, Melk is more likely to put up better offensive numbers than pence (without the pop, sure), runs better, plays better D, and should be half the cost. And would be offensive insurance if you were to lose pagan. I like blanco a lot, but he’s a .240 hitter that given more ABs probably struggles to reach .700 OPS. A great back up anywhere in the OF, but not everyday material.
I think you and I are the only ones here who gives two shits about Melky. I said this yesterday and will say it again, I think he can play – with or without the drugs. Chi also said, “kick the tires.” Anywho, the final arbiter of Melky will be Sabean and he’ll make the right decision.
Willie, I agree with all of this as a fan of the team. This is information that we know. We also know that he bailed on the team without so much as an explanation or even a text to a teammate (and Baggs (and the Merc Guy) tried to find someone who had heard from him. Zilch.).
My point is that we don’t know anything about how the players feel or how management feels about this guy. And all of that matters and gets taken into account when a decision gets made to offer someone a deal, especially in an extraordinary circumstance like this. And this is *extraordinary*. Tell me the last time that a major high profile MVP-type player got suspended mid season. And don’t even go *Manny* on me right now, his 50 game suspension at the time it was given was pedestrian (and at a different time of the season) compared to what happened to Melky and the team in Aug 2012……..
Anyway, based off what I THINK the organization feels about Melky, they aren’t going to touch this guy with a 10 foot pole.
They’d sooner sign Keppinger and convert him to an outfielder than sign Melky.
I have been consistent from the day after the suspension on this guy, he’s a low-life pussy who is out for himself and could give a shit about his team (as evidenced by his absurd actions following his bust–and don’t forget the BEGINNING of this when Baggs busted him weeks before the final bust and he stubbornly sat silent, ultimately forcing Baggs to offer a public apology to this fuck).
And don’t bring Bonds and his *me-first* attitude into this, Barry was ALWAYS about the team. If Melky gave a shit he would have contacted even a single player and said “Later.” Instead he hurried his 2-Live-Crew around to generate an absurd website in a hilarious effort to try to “spring” himself. What do you think the *Buster Posey’s* of the team thought of that stunt?
There is no way the Giants sign him to even a bargain-basement deal. Ever. Not even with the Dodgers money.
Now, if they do then I’ll re-consider the importance that Sabean places on character, team chemistry and just *the team*, in general……
But I’m 99% certain of what they’re gonna do. And they already did it back in August: “see ya later you phony, cheating-me-only fuck.” That was the private message then (I suspect) and it will be the final message that he gets from the team……..
Many of you are not attributing enough value to what Melky did AFTER he got busted. And that’s the shit the Giant’s brass (and their players who won a World Series without his ass) will remember……..
So Weiss has coached at Regis Philpin High?
Guess Regis&Kelly helped get him that gig.
Looks good on the resume i assume Blade.
Poor Wotus wll never get a shot. Book it!
Is that the name of it? No idea . . . They do have a Regis University here and just assumed that was the school he coached at. Should they hire him, the decision will just be that much more hilarious. Oh, and if you think him being considered for the job is funny, my understanding is that they also interviewed Jason Giambi for the job. Now, that is a knee slapper.
Why would anyone presume Melky would be anything more than he was pre-KC? He didn’t take PEDs to improve his writing skills.
I agree with you but I think lots of people think that—with no data to back up the opinion…….
Yarp