Cabrera vs. Trout, and Buster vs. Nobody
NEWS FLASH!!! Per Ewisco, there has been a jail break on Riker’s Island. Wanted Dead or Alive. Be on the lookout for a white Lexus LS 400 with the following license plate:
Nate Silver, over at the 538 blog, took a break from politics, and wrote a baseball entry yesterday. Of course, Nate has done a lot of baseball analysis in the past, so it’s not something out of the ordinary for him. He wrote about why Trout should win the AL MVP instead of Cabrera; and while I understand and appreciate the reasoning, I still don’t like it. And I’m a huge Nate fan. In fact, I’m currently reading Nate’s book “The Signal and the Noise,” and am enjoying it.
I’m still old-timey in some of my ways, though, and I just want to keep believing that if you win the triple crown, and it’s the first time it’s been done in 40-something years, and your team gets to the World Series….that has to be an MVP season. Plus, I think it will just look bad if he gets beaten out by a white guy in this particular situation. The optics of it, as they say, will not be good.
But then again, Cabrera was a dud in the World Series; I remember him hitting a wind-blown homerun, and not much else. So, maybe nobody will care that much if he loses out to Trout.
The baseball writers (and voters) have a chance to show their new-found sabermetric bona fides yet again. We’ve already seen that a 13-12 starting pitcher can win the Cy Young with the right sabermetric numbers, so it’s certainly possible that Trout could win the MVP.
But I hope he doesn’t. If the triple crown can be dismissed as not-so-impressive, then the sport loses something, in my opinion. What it gains in statistical analysis, it loses in historical resonance.
But maybe that’s just the inexorable evolution of the way the sport is perceived, and will be perceived. Change is inevitable, even in a sport that is as resistant to change as baseball.
I predict that Cabrera will win it, but it will be pretty close, probably.
On the other hand, I predict that Buster wins the NL MVP pretty easily, or some baseball writers have got some serious explaining to do.
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
“If the triple crown can be dismissed as not-so-impressive, then the sport loses something, in my opinion. What it gains in statistical analysis, it loses in historical resonance.” Couldn’t agree more, zumiee. As BF says, that shit there is “pure gold”…
Here’s the link.
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/14/the-statistical-case-against-cabrera-for-m-v-p/
I enjoyed reading the 538 blog–never read it before. I bookmarked it. And while I’ve written before about the current pendulum swing in the world of saberstats and an overreaction to some of the newer numbers, Nate makes a very encompassing case for Trout (better than I’ve read from other so-called baseball scribes).
I’d still vote for Cabrera because I agree with Zumie’s points in his main thread.
I certainly think Trout is deserving, I just don’t think he’s so far and beyond more valuable to his team than Miggy is. In fact, if you take both out of their respective line ups my guess is that it would be more disruptive to the Tigers LU.
And there’s even a stretched example of that: Miggy hit like shit in the world series, almost like he wasn’t in the LU (or like he had been replaced by one of those famous *replacement players* that WAR loves to talk about.) When that happened, how did the Tigers offense perform?
Exactly.
And you can’t tell me that if Trout had been invisible in his LU in the same world series games vs the Giants that the Angels would have scored LESS runs over the course of 4 games than the Tigers did……
They’re both deserving however, whoever wins I won’t have a problem with it……
Thanks zumie – nice thread. I too had not read the 538 blog, so thanks to Salt for providing the specifc link.
Silver makes a compelling argument. And the finishing comment “It’s the traditionalists who are using statistics in a way that misses the forest for the trees” hits home, as I am a hard-core traditionalist (at least when it comes to our national pastime). With that said, I would have voted for Cabrera, advanced stats notwithstanding.
Agree with Flavor…they are both deserving, and I am down with whoever wins.
Now if Posey doesn’t win the NL MVP…that’s a whole different story.
If I wake up tomorrow and Romney is President, I’ll go with Cabrera as MVP. Otherwise it’s Trout.
The paragraph in Nate’s piece to pay attention to is this:
“Still, the real progress in the statistical analysis of baseball is in the ability to evaluate the contributions that a player makes on the field in a more reliable and comprehensive way”
BTW, while Buster deserves and should win the NL MVP, he wouldn’t if we used the postseason as a barometer.He had the big slam in the NLDS but was terrible in the NLCS- if others hadn’t picked up the slack we never would have advanced to the WS. Postseason, however, is not and should not be part of the criteria. This is an award for regular season performance.
Purely subjective re: what makes an mvp for you, but Trout’s the better all around player and had a tremendous season. I realize Cab fans are going to argue what else do you want the guy to do at the plate but Trout can beat you in so many more ways. If it came down to these two for who do you want on your team (which isn’t what the award is for), Trout in a landslide.
Nice W for Warriors last night and hopefully more of same for Harrison Barnes. Nelson was an odd guy who stuck around for a couple more years than he should have, but it was good to hear him on the air. Barnett brought up his Bucks teams that were great defenders and won 50 games regularly–I really dug that group and remember seeing them dominate at the Coliseum in those forest green unis. Brian winters played on that team, a better player than a coach, like most that go into that job. Nelson was exception to the rule.
Uhfortunately, Nellie definitely had his rep damaged in his later years. He was (and hopefully still is) a hero to Wisconsin farmers when he drove a tractor across the state to raise money for struggling farmers. He’s certainly an unusual man, but a great one, IMO. With his playing career also considered, he should have been in the HOF long ago. Again, IMO.
Silver’s analysis and writting is great and I encourage anyone to read his work. I picked up on his blog in 2008 and have been hooked ever since. He makes a real effort to remain nuetral and let the data speak for itself. I think it is now 3 election cycles he has accurately predicted. Regarding Cabrera. I think he will win and the triple crown will be the reason in many if not most of the writers minds. I may not pay enough attention but it has surprised me to see such little pub for his triple crown. Maybe it is a reflection of new stats as Zumie mentions but I still view it as a pretty remarkable achievement.
Interesting that Ted Williams twice won the Triple Crown and both times finished runner up for MVP.
He lost to Joe Gordon in 1942 and Joe DiMaggio in 1947, the years he won the triple crown.. In 1949 he led in HR and RBI and was second in BA-
34291 to .34276..and won MVP.
If I was a voter, the Triple Crown would end whatever the rest of my MVP criteria for the award was. Even if Cabrera was on a last place team, I’d give him the MVP. It’s just so damned hard to do.
It’s been suggested many times, and might never have so relevant as this year in the AL, but an award for MVP *and* a “Best Player” award would be a good way to go. I can’t imagine that there’s any doubt whatsoever that Trout was the best player in the league.
Z, very well said. And a very well-written article by Silver. My vote: Miggy. No matter who gets the MVP, at least Silver correctly predicted the most important race of all last week.
Haven’t read the Silver article, or other Trout over Cabrera rationales, but I’d vote Trout. The triple crown is a an arbitrary measure of excellence, kinda like hitting for the cycle. What label is there for hitting 2 doubles, a triple and an HR? All of that said, when Cabrera wins, it will hardly be an injustice.
I’m ready for the next 30 game winner!
Last 3 Triple crown winners,Yaz 67,Robinson 66,Mantle 56 all won the MVP.Not gonna change now.Cabera wins it easily.
And Posey gets it as well in the NL…
Seeing as it hasn’t been done in 45 years, yeah, I’d go with the other Cabrera.
There’s nothing arbitrary about leading the league in HR’s, RBI’s, and average. And the ‘valuable’ part comes into play when you add that Trout, for all he did, didn’t get his team to the playoffs. Cabrera did. That has to be part of the equation.
It is crazy that Williams did it 2x and DIDN’T get the MVP. The 1st time he lost out to Yankee 2nd baseman, the (un)forgettable Joe Gordon. Never heard of the guy til 30 seconds ago.
The next time he lost out to DiMaggio, who had lousier numbers, but NY made the playoffs. Boston finished 3rd.
Plus the press hated Williams, so there’s that.
Joe Gordon is in the HOF. He was also one of the great defensive second basemen, and Trout is a great defender.Today,only lip service is paid to great defense, obviously it has no place in any MVP discussion.
Well, ask any 500 people about Joe Gordon, and 499 of them won’t know a thing about him.
Doesn’t change the argument, just that he lost out to a guy that had DiMaggio and plenty of other help around him.
Silver is cool. Haven’t read the book, but if I were in the states I would have. this year on the 538 he hit like every prediction except one senatorial race. Wonder how he uses all the data available from Fox?
I have a lunch date, so I’ve got to hit the road and can’t get into the reasons why Trout should win the MVP, but I am totally convinced that he should be selected for MVP. That being said, if Cabrera wins it, that’s fine too.
Like Dirt, I have followed Nate since late 2006, when I was volunteering for Obama’s Presidential election locally. The dude is nails in statistical analysis – baseball, politics, tiddly winks . . . you name it.
Didn’t mean to hijack your thread, zumie, but I added an update to the thread . . .
Actually, I think it was Eric that broke the news via email last night…I was just (unsuccessfully so) trying to upload the picture.
My sentiments echo those of other Flappers…FREE DJ LOO! I miss his wit and knowledge…
I have no clue how to post a photo so i emailed it out to the stablehands in the hope that someone would know how. i about crashed into the guy trying to get the photo. if texting and driving is bad, don’t try photography and driving! I thought you all would get a kick out of the thing though.
Ahh hell,Loo is just hanging out on a tropical island somewhere ,as Coleman asks him,”More crack crab Loo-is”? As he’s says “Feelin good to Billy Ray!” Life is good!
Oracle’s point is correct, the MVP is not the best player award. In the AL, theoretically the DH could be your MVP if he had 200 RBIs out of a team’s 700 runs. Who would say that guy would not be deserving? Yet, the guy might not be able to bend over to pick up a grounder. Trout’s the better all around player, but that’s not the award. BF’s point is well taken. Take out Cabrera from the Tigers LU, and take out Trout from the Angels — which team has been impacted more? I’d go with Tigers, so Cabrera gets the award. His lackluster performance during this WS doesn’t matter, other than it shows that the Giants pitching was on its game big time, and had him figured out. Kudos for that to the Giants pitching coaches and the staff for execution of the plan…
Well, Trout *was* taken from the Angel’s line up. He came up on April 28. Before that the Angels were 6-14. After they were 83-59. It can’t be said the difference was all Trout but it’s better evidence than pure conjecture about who would impact the LU more if he was absent.
I think another question about the MVP award is why it even exists. IF, the award is given out with the same reasoning that the Academy Awards are given out, then as much as about awarding quality is the idea of PROMOTING your industry. And, theoretically, I would think that making a big deal about someone winning the triple crown and giving that person the MVP award does more to promote MLB than someone else who might have better reasons for winning via deep statistical analysis.
Nate’s article makes a brilliant case for Trout winning, but I just think it’s better for baseball if Cabrera wins. I like the idea of the triple crown being kind of “magical,” if that’s even close to the correct word I’m looking for.
Compelling reading here, as usual. I enjoy reading Nate Silver, unless I exceed my NYT limit of 10 freebies or whatever it is. (I know Blade has championed him.) It’s weird, or not at all, that Fox News in its EPISTEMIC CLOSURE dismissed him out of hand. How’d that work? As for the MVP, I give it to Cabrera and as usual I am not much at marshaling statistics to buttress my argument. Triple Crown is good enough for me, though that could be silly if, say, somebody else had other great accomplishments: 101 SBs or 92 assists from the outfield or 445 strikeouts. On another note, although I claim to be a wordsmith, I do not understand the semantic point made by Twin and Snarkk. “Valuable” vs. “best”? Let’s split hairs. If we are talking “valuable,” then just award it to the person who by the market has the highest salary. To me, it DOES mean “best” and that “bestness” provides maximum “value.” But I’m dim on some matters, and narrow-minded, too.
I am circumspect about the NY York Times “10 freebie” articles too. However, I get 30 articles because I divide the articles between the Samsung Tablet, Macbook Pro laptop, and the Twinster PC Supercomputer I have. 🙂
I think both Twin and snarrk are German, so their Teutonic precise, analytical personalities come out when discussing these differences that escape us more common folk.
May be, Blade.
But, I suppose the 40%+ Irish explains the late night reach for the bourbon and resulting analytics turned to rants, especially at the end of the usual Giants nail biters…
Dirt said: “it has surprised me to see such little pub for his triple crown.”
Me, too. But I guess that’s the result of our guys taking away his sizzle in the World Series. (grin)
.
Twin I appreciate the guidance post but I really don’t want anyone but you or me uploading photos within the thread.
And the reason is because there are too many things you could accidently fuck up that would negatively effect the look of the blog
Well, there shouldn’t be any reason they can’t just post the URL and you or I post the actual image for them, should there?
no, except that sometimes links get flagged as spam and I find them later, usually too late.
Below is a quote from the BBWAA website re: the MVP ballot. There is no definition of MVP, but there are general ballot guidelines. IMO, the key is that the MVP relates “to his team”. To his TEAM. And, the voter can vote for multiple players on the same team, if he so desires. IMO, this all means that most valuable does NOT equal best player, whether in the league or even on his own team. It encompasses more than just on field stats, his WAR compared to others, etc.
The link is http://bbwaa.com/voting-faq/
” Dear Voter:
There is no clear-cut definition of what Most Valuable means. It is up to the individual voter to decide who was the Most Valuable Player in each league to his team. The MVP need not come from a division winner or other playoff qualifier.
The rules of the voting remain the same as they were written on the first ballot in 1931:
1. Actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense.
2. Number of games played.
3. General character, disposition, loyalty and effort.
4. Former winners are eligible.
5. Members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team.
You are also urged to give serious consideration to all your selections, from 1 to 10. A 10th-place vote can influence the outcome of an election. You must fill in all 10 places on your ballot. Only regular-season performances are to be taken into consideration.
Keep in mind that all players are eligible for MVP, including pitchers and designated hitters. ”
*******************
IMO, the fact that pitchers and DHs are specifically mentioned as eligible means clearly that MVP does NOT mean best player, or best all around player, or best Sabermetric player…
Well, if you accept Silver’s analysis, Trout wins by either measure, best all around AND MVP.
“According to this measure, Trout was actually slightly more valuable than Cabrera as an offensive player, considering the timing of his contributions. Add in his defense and base running, and it isn’t all that close a call.”
They had the DH in 1931?
Though I don’t think these awards really amount to much other than just stuff to talk about (how many fans actually remember who got the MVP two years later?), I would question how it’s decided. They pick two writers of the BBWAA from each NL and AL city, and they make the vote. So 30 and 28 writers vote for the NL and AL MVP, respectively. No cross voting. I get that, supposedly the NL writers and AL writers know their own league’s players and have access to opinions of players and managers in their leagues with opinions. But, I think that’s a shallow voter base. Too small. One or two writers that are pissed at a deserving guy for whatever reason easily shoot his chances. I’d create a wider vote for each league. 1/3 to writers, 1/3 to managers, 1/3 to players, and 1/3 to GMs. In Yogi Berra math. Or something like that. Just get a wider base of opinion…
Well, it’s like the All Star ballloting. Just insert writers for fans. What the hell do the fans know? They are usually 2 seasons too late on up-and-coming players. What the hell do the writers know? They know who they hate. They know who’s a prickly interview and who’s a swell guy. Unless someone just blows away the field (hello Barry Bonds).
It ends up a popularity contest. Which explains the dissing of Williams, or even Mays. I mean, Braun gets heavy consideration even though his positive test is explained away by procedural errors? Cool.
Hey Nipper – the DH SUCKS!
And, free DJ LOO!!!
Great thread, gents
Shit, Wisco, you shoulda dragged DJ’s ass out of the car and got a pic of him. What are the odds that it WASN’T him?
Are those DC plates? That would explain the frequent disappearances. He’s a spy.
I’m pretty sure they’re CA plates with a disability sign
The CA ones usually have the blue square, so I’m not sure of that’s right . . . but who knows?
You couldn’t pull up alongside him?
You beat me to it Twin (your 12:14pm post) . . . Snarkk’s point about Cabrera being taken from the Tigers and Trout from the Angels doesn’t make sense, when you consider that Trout missed an entire month of the season. I picked up Trout on the waiver wire in both of my FL leagues because I knew there was no fucking way he would stay in the minors, especially the way he was tearing the cover off the ball; coupled with the Angels stumbling out of the gate. A week after I picked him up off the waiver wire, he was called up and immediately, he made an impact. I followed every one of his plate appearances and quite frankly, he did something almost every day to help his team win.
Shit, even Superman has a slump or two and Trout had his slump in the last month or so of the season (from August 23rd on) and that is a relative term, when you compare him with everyone else. I’m not dissing Cabrera, but just pointing out a fact that just about everyone (except Twin and I) has forgotten – Trout didn’t play the entire season and that makes his season even more remarkable.
I didn’t forget 🙂
You must have had him on your fantasy league team too. Grin.
Blade, you calling me FOS? 😉
Aren’t you assuming that if Trout were there for the first 1/8 of the season, he would have contributed at least somewhat like he did in his non-slump periods, thus making the 7/8 time he WAS there more remarkable? Maybe the first few weeks he would have been great, maybe he would have cratered and been sent back down, maybe he would have been so bad it would have made the team worse that it was, though it was bad without him, or maybe he gets hurt. IMO you go with what actually happened for the length it happened, not what might have happened. Cabrera and Trout were there for the time they were there, and that’s it. Note also that the voter ballot mentions “number of games played”. That must be there for a reason, since it’s one of just a few criteria listed. In season ABs, Cabrera vs. Trout had 622 vs. 559. Maybe if Trout had those extra 60 ABs early on, he gets only 8 hits, and Ks 20 times and as a result is on the periphery of the MVP conversation…
Not me boss. 🙂
However, you forgot the other reason both Twin and I brought up – The Angels were stinking up the joint until Trout arrived. Per your reasoning, this would enhance Trout’s “most valuable” credentials, right? Also, Trout is a complete player, i.e., steals, defense, hit and run, etc., are all part of his game.
Snark questioned who would be misssed more- and it’s total conjecture on Cabrera since since he played 161 games. With Trout there is at least some tangible evidence that the Angels were better when he was in LU, there’s a guy whose spot he took- Peter Bourjos. Peter hit .220 in 168 AB with 3 HR and 19 RBI. He had an OBP of .291 and OPS of .606.
The absurd conjecture that if Trout “had those extra 60 ABs early on, he gets only 8 hits, and Ks 20 times and as a result is on the periphery of the MVP conversation…” uh, yeah, sure. That’s as valid as me guessing the if Cabrera were out his replacement would hit .350. Again- fact is there’s evidence to show how the Angels did without Trout and how the player he replaced performed, Bourjos was even worse in April, .167 BA .231 OBP .481 OPS. I’m absolutely confident the Angels missed Trout that first month…
Yep, he helped them get in gear after he showed up. No question. But, remember Pujols was dogmeat the first 6 weeks or so for the Angels, that had something to do with their poor start. Maybe I’m too steeped in the past. I figure that a guy wins the TC, he deserves the MVP. Moreso since his team won the division. I won’t be pissed if Trout gets it. He’s well deserving, and the fact he didn’t win a Gold Glove is neither here nor there in the calculus, that’s usually a BS award. He got ROY, that’s enough for him. Cabrera has been very very good for about half a decade, I think two years ago his stats were even better than this year. So, though I know it’s not supposed to count, he deserves it for consistent performance over multiple seasons, too, and that won’t be lost on these writers. I think it won’t be super close, and that Cabrera will win…
Forgotten is that Trout has his own bests, “in fact no player in the history of the game has combined as much excellence in so many areas in the same season “( from the respected Jayson Stark’s argument for Trout.) Stark picks Buster for NL MVP. He also makes an excellent case for Kimbrel for the NL CY. Dirrrrrrty gets second place for the AL “Cy Yuk” and Bochy second for MOY.
http://tinyurl.com/8o4c4sl
That was another excellent set of articles by Stark. I disagree with him on several choices he made for awards, but he generally makes good, logical arguments and has keen observations. He’s usually quite objective. I read his stuff more than any other national baseball writer. He says he has an MVP vote. Not sure why, he’s not a beat writer for one of the NL cities, so there must be a relatively new rule allowing a few more voters…
Like most of us, it’s not like i think the “other guy” would be undeserving.
Maybe my “best” vs. “most valuable” is splitting hairs, but “Offensive Player or the Year” would be a more appropiate award for Cabrera, in fact for most MVP winners, IMO. An award that neglects exellence in 3 of the commonly accepted “tools” is lacking, IMO.
Harbaugh in the hospital for a irregular heartbeat.Hope he will be ok.That tie against the Lambs,would have made anybody ill….
Was just gonna post that, AK:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1410573-jim-harbaugh-undergoes-minor-procedure-for-irregular-heartbeat
You guys know I don’t really follow anyone but the Giants, so I’m not going to even try and argue the point. However, being the old-fashioned girl that I am, I have to go with the Triple Crown winner. There is a consistency required to achieve that feat, and I can’t imagine any team not missing that day in and day out performance.
Also, LOVE Nate SIlver. I’m waiting until I get a job to get his book. I think my favorite Nate Silver story of the year was the right wing pundits dismissing his numbers because he looked effeminate. One of the guys on the radio show I listen to said, ‘no, he’s not gay, he’s that other ‘g’ word “geek”.’
nice to see you doing a drive-by here, FH!
The one Trout stat that really blows me me away is the 49 SBs and the 91% success rate. Very few players add a lot of value by stealing bases. Read the BP article on Rickey Henderson for a pretty undeniable argument on that point. I haven’t checked it, but to steal that many bases with that kind of success rate is probably as rare an offensive feat as winning a triple crown.
MVPosey!!!
Free DJLoo!!!
Buster is the MVP
Yeah Buster! Was there a doubt? HELL NO!
Good convo with Stark about the AL Trout v. Cabrera.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8631348/mlb-2012-american-league-most-valuable-player
First place MVP votes below. Link to vote tally here http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121115&content_id=40300448&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb
It was a Busterslide:
Buster 27
Braun 3
Molina 2
Wow! What a resume. Quite reminiscent of Lincecum’s arrival to the big leagues. Both making a big impact early in their career. Great time to be a Giants fan.
Together we are MVP.
Cabrera wins the MVP.
Not close. 22 of 28 first place votes…
The Rockefeller Republican in a landslide.
The Triple Crown is a hallowed achievement and obviously that won the MVP for Cabrera. Interesting that the take away from Silver’s argument for Trout is, in essence-“he’s right but I’d give it to Cabrera anyway”. Such is the power of the Triple Crown even though it does litlle in truly addressing who the most valuable player was. It shows who the best hitter was.
I’ve come a long way in the last month on Trout. And it hasn’t had anything to do with some *epiphany* or that I learned a new saberstat. I just accepted that his base running (and it is a HUGE deal when he puts himself on 2nd base scoring position all the time for free) plus his defense are the things that put him over the top to make him a better overall player than Miggy.
I haven’t changed my mind about what I said at 5:58am today. The Tigers scored 6 runs in 4 games. Cabrera was a ghost in that series. I can’t imagine the Angels scoring less than 6 runs over the course of the same 4 games if they had been playing the Giants and Trout had been *the ghost*….
But whatever, they are both hugely valuable guys, what Miggy did in 2012 was historic and what Trout did was historic too, though in a different, more encompassing way……….
I liked the part in Silver’s article about how 20 or 25 homers hit at Comerica weren’t deep enough to go out at Anaheim. Reminded me of reading about Charles Finley’s “Pennant Porch” when the A’s were in KC. From Wiki:
“After supposedly being told by manager Ed Lopat about the Yankees’ success being attributable to the dimensions of Yankee Stadium, Finley built the “K.C. Pennant Porch” in right field, which brought the right field fence in Kansas City Municipal Stadium to match Yankee Stadium’s dimensions exactly, just 296 feet from home plate. However, a rule passed in 1958 held that no (new or renovated) major-league fence could be closer than 325 feet, so league officials forced Finley to move the fences back after two exhibition games. The A’s owner then ordered a white line to be painted on the field at the original “Pennant Porch” distance, and told the public address announcer to announce “That would have been a home run in Yankee Stadium” whenever a fly ball was hit past that line but short of the fence. The practice was quickly abandoned after the announcer was calling more “would-be” home runs for the opposition than the A’s.”
Never knew that, or if I did I, I forgot, which is possible.
I also recall a story about Vic Power of the Angels I think at that time catching a pop up at 1b vs the A’s and yelling, “Hey Finley, that would have been a homerun at Disneyland!.”
Saw a buddy tonight who — I was shocked to learn — was at Game 1, after his recent move out West, courtesy of his employer. Third-base, five rows in. Imagine if I bumped into him. Small world, as the song endlessly repeats at Disney World.
you had a better time than he did. I don’t need to know anything about his experience to be certain of that. 🙂
reading MacDog’s post up above, which surprised me the same way it surprised Pawlie, I really would like to know how many bombs Pence lost at ATT. I recall him hitting a bunch of balls to deep right field that got caught. I actually remember those shots to right field at other parks, too. I know he hit .219 (or whatever it was with SF) but he had many, many LOOOOONG outs. Not only would those have been bombs in almost any other park but that average gets bumped up a little too when the out turns into a hit.
He didn’t just start swinging wildly at sliders when he flew into SF, there’s been a book on him since his first weeks in the bigs. This is just who he is. He just needs to keep hitting the ball hard when he makes contact and he’ll be fine next year……….
Over his career, Pence has 122 bombs to left and center, 16 to right. 60 of the HRs are to “center,” whatever that means. My guess would be most are to left center.