Doing it The Sabean Way: It Happens in Four Phases
El Presidente to the Yankees, Justin Christian to the Cardinals, Emmanuel Burriss to the Reds…..
What’s going on here?
I see this as GM’s going through the 2nd phase of trying to emulate The Sabean Way of general managing. The first phase lasts about 2 weeks. In phase one you just sit there in a daze mumbling to yourself and wondering how Sabean could have pulled off winning his 2nd world series in 3 years. After you snap out of that foggy haze you decide that you better start doing your job better and the best way to accomplish that is to steal a winning blue print. You try to do what Sabean did because that is a formula that works. Clearly.
And that’s where phase 2 starts. The simplest first move is to pick up any and all Giants players who are free on the waiver wire. While all three of the guys listed above are just signed to minor league deals, it is a bit unusual to have our peripheral riff raff AAA filler players snapped up so quickly by other major league clubs. Phase 2 explains this.
Phase 3 is the hard part. Guys like Brian Cashman, Jerry Dipoto, (and now) Ned Colleti are programmed to think Phase 3 is *spend as much as you can on expensive free agents*. But this is the phase all of these GM’s need to re-work. The cornerstone of The Sabean Way is to put together a rock solid pitching staff from all five starters all the way through both ends of the bullpen. How did he do that? Through the draft, trades, cheap free agent pick ups and a priority of re-signing as many bullpen guys as he could. Nowhere in the handbook does it say throw 175 million dollars at Zack Grienke……
When all is said and done I don’t think any of Sabean’s colleagues are going to have the patience to pull off The Sabean Way. It just takes too dang long. Shit, I didn’t have the patience to even WATCH it happen. As a fan, I spent most of 2007 through 2009 wishing that the rebels would drag Sabean’s bobblehead through the streets of San Francisco. And then 2010 happened and I was like, “Oh, ok, I’m caught up now. You are a freaking genius.”
It’s too easy (and too much fun) to draft hitters and sign big money free agent hitters and pitchers to contracts they will never come close to justifying. It looks good in the local papers but all it really does is buy the GM a little more time. But at the end of the season they are no closer to winning 2 world series in 3 years than they were before the season started…..
Phase 4 is getting your ass fired. Of course, that phase isn’t in the copy of the handbook that Sabean works from. But if you can’t or won’t operate The Sabean Way in phase 3 then you’re going to find yourself spending a lot of time in *phase 1* with a final and unavoidable dose of *phase 4* delivered at some point by your angry owner.
A Place To Talk About Giants Baseball 
Sabes has been (mostly) great lately about picking up the type of guys that were undervalued and plugging them into a group where they have shone. I’m thinking of Lopez and Ramirez from 2010, Cody Ross and Huff of 2010, plus all he got out of Andres. All these guys did more for us than what they had done elsewhere.
Even Scuts was a known commodity as a solid vet type, and then he just exploded. Theriot was solid and helped Craw through some early struggles, and then stepped aside as his spot was taken, and made couple big plays at the end.
All these guys had an extra gear, something they reached inside for when it mattered, that you can’t undervalue. None of them are going to cost you $100 mill, but you can’t win without them.
Cain got $120 mill, and Zito got $126. Cain may have earned it here, but Sabes did throw money around where he felt it was warranted. Or do you attribute Zito to Magowan?
I hang that one more on Magowan, and from most I read, Magowan was the one who insisted on this signing. Regardless, Sabes like everyone has had his ups-and-downs, but I wouldn’t trade him and his staff (Tidrow, Evans, etc.) for anything. Wonder what all the “Lunatic Fringe” are pissing and moaning about now???
Great thread, Craig.
Sorry I did not make it on to wish all of you a Happy Thanksgiving. You guys (and gal) are truly like family, and there are many things for which I am grateful, but this blog, and sharing all things Giants are truly right up there.
Gail and I were to be solo yesterday. We trailered her horse out to Cronin Ranch and she had a fantastic trail ride while I hiked with the new pooch, Buster. Went non-trad and had my kick-ass home made lasagna. Gail’s son did join us for dinner, and my daughter and her boyfriend joined us for pie. It was a beautiful day, and I hope you all had a fantastic day with family and friends. It sounds like that was the case.
Catching up from yesterday:
Great 2-in-3 graphic. I have seen that previously in some articles I read and love it, but had missed some of the details, such as the date, and “Sweep” emblazoned on the base of the trophy.
Awesome picture of Pawlie. I loved that shot when you first posted it. And how appropriate to re-post on the day in which we offer gratitude for all that blesses our lives.
Micah – congrats on your upcoming family addition. Wishing you and yours the best.
Excellent re-cap piece by Pav…thanks for sharing, Eric.
Twin and Snarkk – great exchange about cooking and restaurants. I LOVE to cook, and am asked regularly why I never opened a restaurant, and snarkk nailed that one on the head. Besides, it would be like work then, and I am sure I would no longer enjoy it.
Great links on Johnny and Shuggie Otis Michael. Thanks for sharing…I really enjoyed them.
Ted – I loved your story about the play, where you had to grab the girl’s asses while letting them know they were canned, and then the part about looking for your costume, opening the women’s dressing room, and their subsequent comments. Was LMAO…great stuff.
And regarding the Sabean way…good stuff Flav. Not sure if you all have read the piece by Tom Verducci. He breaks down the winning way quite well. And there is a piece where he discusses the assembling of the pitching staff, and mentions how Dick Tidrow was instrumental in helping Vogel-STRONG make his comeback after he came back to the Giants seeking a job. The article also talks about how Sabean didn’t really have a chance to develop this blueprint during the Bonds years. Outstanding read if you have not read it yet.
Make it a wonderful Friday, Flappers!
Good job. I concur!
New pooch?
Had him about 6 weeks now, Salt. Jack Russel Terrier (rescue). Great dog.
Sabean was generally thought to be the worst GM in baseball as late as 2009- and Bochy thought of as a barely functional illterate- here. And by “here” I mean the Bay Area. They didn’t get *that* much better. Many fans just can’t see progress until it manifests itself in wins.We lost picks because of signing Tucker, Tire Fire, etc. In 2005 our first pick was Ben Copeland in the 4th round.In 2006 it was the Freak, in 2007 we got Bumgarner, Posey was #1 in 2008, Crawford was #4. In 2009 it was Wheeler 1, Joseph 2, Belt 5. in 2010 we got Brown and Hembree. We went from a team with virtually no home grown players to one whose 2010 WS starting pitchers were the first in MLB history to be all homegrown. And Sabes had begun to look more for position players- on the active roster now are Posey, Hector, Belt, Crawford, Panda. Plus Timmy, Cain, MadBum, Romo..there have been missteps, but the way this team was built changed in 2006. It wasn’t until 2009 that we started to see the results, but Sabes was building our champions during the years when ‘FireSabean” wasn’t a wacko notion, but the prevailing opinion.
As to Bochy, he was the same manager when he got here as he is now. There was never any substance to the criticisms- and then one thing happened to make folks suddenly rethink their opinion of him- the Donnie Two Trip incident. What’s pretty funny about that- he was wrong.Fortunately the umps and the Bums didn’t know the rule either.But he then began to be grudgingly recognized as perhaps more than just a puddinghead. Today he’s spoken of as a HOF candidate.
Quite a journey from the days when the villagers were set to burn castles Sabean and Bochy..
Good stuff, Michael.
Thanks. I know there is disagreement on what I’ve said, but i think it’s a fair recap of their metamorphosis from dunderheads to geniuses…
BTW, I enjoyed yesterday’s comments from all. Good stuff.
Yes, good recap. It’s been a interesting turnaround.
I agree. And going back to the days on the Splash (before Flavor created this place), I used to get into some good pissing matches about Sabean. I always thought he did a decent job (sure, there were lean years, but when comparted to some of the others who pass for GMs…I have always liked him).
Anyway…I think it a good synopsis.
yes, good stuff around here…human nature, eh? first they wave palms and within the week, they, well, you know…
Is that true? the 2010 WS starters were the first in HISTORY to be all homegrown?! That is stunning.
Speaking of Tidrow, I stumbled upon this brief interview with him on the NY Post’s site, it was done during the WS: http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/baseballinsider/conversation_with_dick_tidrow_Qbe776tu0oeRReCX8a5sQN#axzz2D4SCANKP
Good read, thanks. Yeah, I don’t think Tidrow and Evans get a lot of cred for the Giant’s success. Sabes and those two guys (not to mention all the other scouts, front office staff, etc.) sure make one hell of a team. I think a lot of fans either don’t realize, or just don’t acknowledge how it all really starts with these guys. Then you have Bochy and his group that take what Sabes and crew provide, and make magic on the field.
Hope you all had a Happy Thanksgiving.
Frankly, I’m happy it’s over 🙂 Cooking and cleaning up for just 3 people and I’m beat.
So a couple of weeks ago we were discussing Giants swag, and a number of you mentioned the possibility of getting some new WS-related gear. I have had my eyes on this sweatshirt, and it has sold out on a few sites.
http://shop.mlb.com/product/index.jsp?productId=16955946
So I checked MLB.com, and they have a sale going on. 25% off orders over $50. $59.95 sweatshirt became a $44.95 sweatshirt. So, if you were contemplating pulling the trigger on something like this, I wanted to share the news on the sale.
No accessories come with the sweatshirt? Where’s the fucking crown? Scepter?
I got the gray one. Kinda chintzy. Chintz. There’s a word. About 30 years ago, I used the word “chintzy” and a cousin-in-law who I always figured for gay though he was married to a fairly hot woman said with his lisp, “Chintz? Our store sells some beautiful chintz. Why do you say that word as a negative?”
Thought this was interesting:
GAINESVILLE, Va. (AP) — The last player to hit a home run for the New York Giants before they moved has died.
A funeral home says former Major League Baseball player Gail Harris died at his Gainesville, Va., home on Nov. 14. He was 81.
The final home run before the Giants moved to San Francisco in 1957 came against Pittsburgh. Harris played for the New York Giants and the Detroit Tigers between 1955 and 1960.
Following his career as a first baseman he worked in insurance sales.
A memorial service was held for Harris in Manassas, Va. on Nov. 17. Pierce Funeral Homes says his remains were cremated.
Harris was originally from Abingdon, Va.
My note (and I looked it up): Harris was traded in January 1958 along with Ozzie Virgil to Detroit for Jim Finigan and $25,000, so he did not play in San Francisco.
I recall the name. I may even have his card in my scrapbook. Thanks for this news. This reminds me of Johnny Antonelli. Still kickin’ in Rochester, NY. I have not read the bio yet from Scott Pitoniak.i
Ha, I knew one of you guys would post this. I read his obit in the New York Times this morning and was gonna do a thread about him tomorrow. Thanks a lot MacDog!!!!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂
I gotta ask my father if he remembers this guy.
John, you M.F. You just made me feel ANCIENT. But, ok, ok, I’ll let it slide.
Pawlie, I think that’s the second time I’ve done that to you, the first involving the Kingston Trio. I’ll make it up to you and buy your book as a Xmas present for a good friend.
The lastest from Mlbtr…
“The Giants aren’t sure they’re willing to commit to Angel Pagan for as many years as he’s seeking, Olney reports. But the Giants do believe they’ll find a way to re-sign second baseman Marco Scutaro.”
Feck Olney. What’s he know anyway?
Speaking of genius, apply that to today’s thread (isn’t that term outdated, referring to 1990s message boards?) and its responses. Yes. Like, totally. BTW, my brother, known as Buzz Knight in radio circles, looks like he was separated at birth from Brian Sabean, which would make Sabes, what, my half-quasi-stepbro?
I have a question, girls: why/how was Johnny Damon playing for Thailand in the WBC? Is it a typo for Thighland? [summoning 1970s porn titles]
For the record, let me declare right here that I CANNOT STAND Christmas shopping: the sales, the crowds, the buzz, the lack of sales, the incessant commercials, the merchandising, the hoopla, the faux excitement, the crassness, the tawdriness, the capitalist fetishism for Herbert Marcuse-predicted false needs, the anxiety, the wanton profligacy, the hedonism. Got it?
But, what if they’re clamoring to buy your book?…
In that unlikely event, I sacrifice all “principles” I pretend to have, Mr. S.
Before we canonize Sabes, and he’s close to it I suppose, let’s get a little perspective. Sabes gets all the credit he’s due for 2 WS wins in 3 years. That’s a huge accomplishment, and he deserves all the kudos for that, it’s a great success story for him and the organization. The 2012 win validates that 2010 was not a fluke, as some commentators suggested. He also, by the same token, gets credit for 2005-2008, where the team won 75, 76, 71, and 72 games, the worst 4-year stretch in SF Giants history. He surrounded a slowly eroding Bonds in that period (Bonds was out pretty much all 2005 with his knee issue) with a bunch of retreads and never was position guys, and a not so hot set of pitchers like Vinny Chulk, Misch, Armando, Taschner, Hennessey, etc., guys from inside and from outside the organization. This recent period of 2009-2012 has been wonderful, mostly due to the great pitching Sabes and crew assembled (starters mostly inside the organization, relievers mostly from outside) along with Bochy’s managing and his coaching crew. Whatever, I’m not taking it for granted at all, and I’m hopeful the good times continue. But, I’m not assuming we won’t see some rough times again over the next decade. If they happen, they’ll be a lot easier to handle with 2 WS trophies in the trophy case, and Sabes’ 2 rings will rightfully insulate him against most criticism…
I think he learned a lot from those years (2004-2008). He realized that you can’t just put small pieces around one guy (The Bonds Plan). He recognized that the way to build a team was through the draft and for the guys they couldn’t draft they started to pour a shitload of $$$ into international scouting and and foreign player development. He’s on record as saying he started to give more credit to saberstats and how they impact decisions. And he spent a great amount of emphasis on pitching development and acquisition of cheap but effective free agent relievers.
In short, he did what anyone who is competent and takes his job seriously would do: he got better at it……
I think you’re right. That’s why I’m hoping if the Giants do have some dips in the next decade, they won’t be horrendous like that period, but just more like the cyclical ups and downs of good to not so good years that every team will go through due to guys retiring, traded, injuries, etc. I’d like to know also what the SF minor league and scouting budgets (domestic and international) were annually from 2000 onward. I’ll bet that those budgets increased substantially during the lean years through now. More scouts and front office people looking for talent, evaluating talent, and more money to sign the top talent (Cain, Lincecum, Buster)…
I’m hearing on KNBR that Pagan wants 3 years, but wants a high dollar amount. If the 3 years is doable, that’s better than I expected. That sounds good to me, so the only thing is the money. Minor item, money. Get ‘er done…
3 years? absolutely! you’ve got some extra bucks laying around from the post season run. but not four years.
As for Sabes, i’ve got to sort of wait and see if he caught lightning in a bottle with his recent draft success or whether that it’s something to depend on going forward. The steelers won a bunch of SB’s with essentially the same cast but that doesn’t make their GM a genius.
Flav: You’re on toppa your game with this analysis. Kudos for a nicely projected breakdown. The one and out happy happenstance scenario got played out and gone in October and you can betcha bottom dollar that ML execs and poobah commentators on the MLB scene are now VERY aware that Sabean has made Giant strides in his years running this outfit, and as Twin points out, Brian’s developments have enabled Bochy to showcase his genius as well.
Pawlie: The breadth of your erudition amazes me. Here i would have been certain that i’d be the only one ever commenting here who was into the cultural, social and analytical prowess of Herbert Marcuse. Got turned onto him during my sojourn on the Coast in ’69-70. He took a rather shopworn and moth-eaten Marxist analysis, added a psychological set of insights by way of Freud and Jung, added his own depth historical analysis and emerged with ‘Eros and Civilization’. That resonated rather well with me, just having spent the latter part of ’69 resident on the corner of Waller and Webster, a block West of Haight and one north of Fillmore.
Snarkk: Thanx for the news on Pagan being amenable to a high-dollar, three year deal. Very doable, what with all the lucre descending on the organization by way of the Post-Season success culminating in the Championship, the winning of which factored in some sparkling contributions by Pagan Baby. Thanx to Creedence for that monicker. First heard at the Fillmore in ’69 most likely.
Thanksgiving Day brought the first probably permanent till March or so snowfall to the far flung fringes of the Northwoods hereabouts. Drove home last night on snow-drifted roads with a 25 MPH northwind splaying things around and very few vehicle ruts to follow. MAJOR seasonal shift for me as two days earlier my megaproject of pond development with spade and wheelbarrow finally got completed and a day before Turkey Day, we had a high of 54 degrees (SF weather) while tonight its maybe 11 or 12 above and the cats are cuddled on the couch or huddled next to the woodstove. We call that central heating locally. The stove is almost dead-center in the house. So nowadays my time is not so taken up with daily outdoor fun. Thus, more time on the puter and for reading. Finally finishing Studs Terkel’s opus “The Good War”. Some of his interviewees didn’t feel that way, particularly after 40 years of reflection ad sober second thought.
Scutaro looks probable and if its a matter more of money than of roster time for Pagan, things are looking good for an all roads to the W.S. lead through McCovey Cove.
Stix, my man: always great to get your narrative spendor. Good to see you here. Shite, it is 46 degrees or so in Syracuse but there’s talk of snow for tomorrow, thanks to the weather you describe coming eastward. Herbert Marcuse? Here’s my disclaimer: I’m a facile name-dropper. More that I’ve read about him than read his works. YOU ARE THE SCHOLAR of the North Woods. You are the resident Thoreau. BTW, I tried for a slice of the Studs Terkel approach in my book, relying heavily on fans in their own words.
I called into knbr this morning around 10 to talk tO Kevin lynch. I was pissed off about how this Alex/Kap thing is developing. Still pissed off after the call (though he did say “that is a great question” when I asked him how he though JH was gonna sell this to the fans.
First time I’ve called into knbr since the early 90’s and “young Bob” was having callers call in to give him a nickname. My nickname idea: Carl Jung Bob. He hung up on me saying “I’m a man of the people Craig, that name isn’t gonna work.”
True story
BTW, if you’re talking about Bob Fitzgerald on KNBR, he’s terrible. Big (actually short) blowhard, know it all and apologist for the Dubs (he’s on the Dubs payroll, apparently KNBR does not pay him). He’s got no credibility, he was exposed, allegedly, a coupla years back before new ownership for anonymously posting on a Dubs blog to refute criticism of the Dubs management. The more I listen to talk show guys on that station, and sometimes the FM one now, the more I realize most of them don’t know a lot about the teams they supposedly cover. A mile wide and an inch deep kind of thing. None of them know the Giants up and down the organization like some of the Flappers here. I can’t think of an example off hand, but during the season, you catch them now and then saying some small thing that you KNOW is total bullshit about a player, or tendencies or whatever, and then you realize they’re blowing smoke a lot. Someday BF you should start a weekly podcast with a panel of Flappers talking about the Giants past weekly developments. I think the info and insight would be fun for Giants fans. And, throw in a haiku or two…
Same for ESPN, Snarkk. The shit they tend to spout is a repeat of other stuff, LESS than any beat writer. As for podcasts, I have been on one for Cardinals fans, as recently as a week or two ago. They’ve been generous and willing to promote my book. great guys. BUT, BUT, let me tell ya, the lines were not burning up. “Is this miike working?” feeling. Just saying.
I’m sure Flappers would fare way better than Cards fans on a podcast. 🙂
Heck, Ted’s impression of Richard Burton alone would be riveting podcastery…
Ted does Richard Burton? Not surprising at all. But is he doing Burton doing Liz Taylor? THAT is the juicy question.
I’ve kicked the podcast idea around. It’s a good one.
I don’t remember Ted “doing” that combined impression at the Flapalooza II. He might have, but after a coupla bourbons, I may have missed it. I recall he did do a fine, short soliloquy as Dick (George) once I mentioned one of my fav movies of all time was “Virginia Woolf”, with Liz and Dick. Shoot, I felt for a moment like I was George Segal. Sandy Dennis was in the kitchen… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdEcPD2A6Zk
That’s a good story, even if I don’t know who the Young / Jung guy is. Hey, has anyone sampled THE COMEBACK KINGS or RETURN TO THE PINNACLE or any of the other new Jints books bouncing around out there?
When Bob Fitzgerald (currently the voice of the W’s and he also has a mid day talkshow on KNBR) first hit the Bay Area scene he called himself *Young Bob*. I think Pete Franklin gave him that name but I could be wrong. So I took it and turned it into “Carl Jung Bob”,
I knew he was going to just laugh it off but I thought it was funny so I called in.
Thanks, Flavor. I’ll be around, and I’m not V or Spitty on bad stuff.
I can’t stand Fitz, either. The best radio team was Ralph Balbieri and Tolbert when Tolbert was 2nd string.
I don’t know who V or Spitty is, I only blog here and at Chuck’s blog (though I’ve heard their screen names mentioned at ‘Forever). I don’t really even read any other blogs. Occasionally I’ll read the Merc baseball blog or Jon Dowd’s Blog or some of the comments at mlbtraderumors.com. I don’t read the Splash anymore— those who run the Chron blogs have ruined them all……….
What a lot of folks don’t get about the years when Sabean built around Bonds with those aging pieces was that they were mostly better than the shit on the farm. THAT was the mistake, and when the rebuilding and rethinking began was not in 2008 or 2009 but in in 2006.We didn’t start to see results in the W-L record until 2009 but the process had begun in earnest.
I know. And that’s the part that GM’s today don’t want to do—the 3 to 4 year draft/international signing re-build project. That shit doesn’t look too good in the papers.
But signing Grienke to 175 bazillion dollars is rad. You’re taking your picture with him and his new uni, it’s fantastic.
And at the end of the year the photographers are taking pictures of Sabean hoisting the world series trophy….
It’s almost a con game that other GM’s are playing with their fans……….
but in that context, is the grienke signing much different than the zito signing? make a splash. at the end of the day you have to have a draft. bob watson of the yankees. i’ve said it before but he made the yankees what they are today. and sabes came from that era. i’m sure this lesson will have to be relearned.
right. It’s no different at all. But that’s just another lesson Sabean learned along the way (as did the ownership group)
Gnight. Another day of fine posts, IMO. My benchmark for a day of great posts is when it starts with agreement on one of my posts. Thanks and keep it up, Chi.Your check is in the mail.Hold it until I give you the word, OK?